Keep Nocioni
- Thread starter DeMoN
- Start date
At first I was put off by his aloof demeaner, and the I-dont-want-to-be here attitude. But during tonight's post-game interview, he appeared to have changed his tune, and appeared genuinely excited playing with this this revitalized team & franchise. I think he's beginning to see the reason he was brought here in the first place - to bring that tough and competitive spirit that becoming the brand of this new Kings team.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
I agree he is playing well right now, but if a deal comes along that can get us out of his contract we still have to consider it.
Casspi and Garcia ( when healthy ) can do the thing Nocioni can do, there just a lot younger.
Casspi and Garcia ( when healthy ) can do the thing Nocioni can do, there just a lot younger.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We are caught here now though. There is ismply no way we can have Kevin, and Cisco, and Noc, and Casspi and Donte all getting minutes at 2 positions along with Evans, and Thompson and Hawes (all 3 of whom should be 30+ themselves) and...just does not work. Too many qualified bodies. Just generally break it down like this:
Martin -- star
Cisco -- scrappy
Noc -- scrappy
Udoka -- scrappy
Casspi -- scrappy, young
Donte -- young
You would like, as a young team forming up a scrappy hardworking persona, to a) keep all your young guys; and b) keep all your scrappy guys. But that would be very hard by itself, let alone whe you are bringing back a 35+min star OG. So something has to give. Under no circumstances should that something be either Casspi or Donte. Udoka can of course be scrapped, but that does not solve much. You still are looking at Sg: Kevin 35+; 13 minutes extra; SF: 48 minutes, so 61 minutes a game between Noc, Cisco, Casspi, and Donte. Its just not enough -- basrely 15min a piece if you divy it up absolutely equally. Either Kevin has to be moved so you can keep all the scrappers and young guys, or one or more of the scrappers/kids have to go if you keep Kevin. Because otherwise those kids are going to be riding pine after everybody gets back, and what is the point of that in a rebuild?
As an aside, an imprtant side question becomes who is the leader of our current scrappiness. If it is Evans, Casspi, the young guys, then we can trade away vets and still maintain our scrappy identity. If Noc etc. is the leader, then trading him away guts us of our courage.
DeMoN
Bench
I really got the idea that Noc is our leader seeing him yell at a timeour. He looks like he is really trying to make a difference on our team.
BritishColumbia
Bench
Noc has been always a leader and winner. He was like that in his early twenties. I think people in America just do not realize how big and popular he was in Spain and actually everywhere in Europe. I do not know whether he is the leader in the Kings or not but I am almost sure that he is the one for our Euro players like Beno, Casspi and Rodriguez.
'89 Kings Fan
Bench
One thing I do see us doing is giving all backup PF minutes to the same group. I think Coach has decided the best backup C on the team is Thompson so if he and Hawes split 35/13, that leaves about 26 backup PF minutes for Noc. + Dante. Assuming we can stand to let our star Kenny Thomas ride the pine. Also if a miracle occurs and we trade Beno, Cisco should pickup all the backup PG minutes. That would leave about 100 minutes between the four of them. Plus you have to account for the freak injury component. So it might be a problem that takes care of itself.
So I think Petrie's main goal should be to trade Beno + Thomas still, and thanks to Westphal both of their trade values should be going up.
You are... streching it a bit by putting Noc @ PF. He did play for a bit with the bulls since they really never had a true C but was largely ineffective. Can strech the floor and he is strong and scrappy, but any true PF would wipe the floor with him. He's too slow for the athletic ones... Amar'e, Aldrige, Martin... and too slow for the strong ones with a backdown game. Kenny Thomas is out best backup at PF... and I don't like him but he hasn't done much not to warrant backup minutes. I would like Greene to be getting the bulk of the minutes there ideally, be our own Rashard Lewis but he is not ready yet.
Yet Nocioni has already played a reasonable amount of time as the second-biggest guy on the floor this year - 32% of his minutes according to 82games.com. They also indicate that Greene has played 45% of his time at PF. Together those two represent 21% of the team's minutes at PF, which comes up to about 10 minutes a game.
Obviously this is usually against other teams' second squads, some would come against smallball teams like the Warriors, but the idea that Nocioni can't swing to PF in that situation doesn't jive with what we've seen already this season. For backup minutes, it's often acceptable for the backup big men to be a bit smaller, because the opponents' guys are usually smaller too.
Anyway, in any discussion where we're talking about how to distribute minutes, it's important to keep in mind that our small forwards are already pulling about 10 minutes per game at the 4, and if Sean May continues to get DNP-CDs that number is liable to rise.
Jechtsphere
Starter
As much as I love Noc, he's one of my favorite Kings to watch.
Aggressive, heart, hussle, tough and everything else.
If the right deal is there we have to take it...fact is we have too many at those positions and certain guys like him and Garcia make too much.
He seemed like he didn't want to be here because last year there was no heart or desire from anyone and like it has been said even in practice if everyone isn't busting their *** like he does he'll get pissed but if everyone plays with the toughness, heart and desire he plays with he's happy.
I'd rather have Noc a lot more than Garcia so it should be interesting to see what happens when everyone is healthy.
Aggressive, heart, hussle, tough and everything else.
If the right deal is there we have to take it...fact is we have too many at those positions and certain guys like him and Garcia make too much.
He seemed like he didn't want to be here because last year there was no heart or desire from anyone and like it has been said even in practice if everyone isn't busting their *** like he does he'll get pissed but if everyone plays with the toughness, heart and desire he plays with he's happy.
I'd rather have Noc a lot more than Garcia so it should be interesting to see what happens when everyone is healthy.
Jkbiker
Starter
I would much rather see Noc, Donte, Brockman and even (OMG I dont believe Im saying this) Kenny Thomas play backup PF than Sean May
Seems we always loose 4-6 points when May comes in the Game, PF's shooting over his shortness, running around him, then he bricks his next two shots, stands around doesnt rebound. Is Sean May's contract guaranteed? Can we do the same thing as with Mason?
If not he should be there for extreme foul problems, or injury insurance only.
Told my GF last two games, best part of the Game - No Sean May
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Either Noc or Cisco will have to go, and I would rather see Cisco be the one to go. I've said that ever since we traded for Noc. I love his intensity and leadership, and that is something this team really needs. It looks like the young guys really look up to him, and it was Tyreke who said Noc has impressed him more than anyone else on the team. This team is beginning to build chemistry, and Noc is a big part of that. The timing is unfortunate for Cisco, but by the time he comes back he will be the odd one out becasue of all the time he would have missed.
This isn't a knock against Cisco. He also is intense and is a leader on this team. But I think Noc's style fits this team a little better, and also I just hate the way Cisco starts jacking up shots from everywhere after he hits a couple.
Both are valuable to this team, but not valuable enough to take minutes away from Omri and Donte when Cisco returns. This doesn't mean I wouldn't look to trade Noc, I would just rather trade Cisco. But if we can get a better deal involving Noc, and the deal makes sense, then by all means pull the trigger.
This isn't a knock against Cisco. He also is intense and is a leader on this team. But I think Noc's style fits this team a little better, and also I just hate the way Cisco starts jacking up shots from everywhere after he hits a couple.
Both are valuable to this team, but not valuable enough to take minutes away from Omri and Donte when Cisco returns. This doesn't mean I wouldn't look to trade Noc, I would just rather trade Cisco. But if we can get a better deal involving Noc, and the deal makes sense, then by all means pull the trigger.
Lets cross the trade Garcia bridge when we get there. If Garcia can come back and fit into the new scheme of play good or play gone, then we will have one more weapon. I hate the logjam that Garcia creates but he is our most dangerous shooter and it makes sense to see if he comes into his season on target. Other than Garcia hitting a large % of 3s or playing superb, I would like him to be brought around slowly. As of right now, Nocioni has earned his starting job, and suprise, Kings are 3-0 when Noc starts, and Martins out.
King Baller
All-Star
A team with a tough image needs players like Noc. Exhibit A is the Jazz with Matt Harpring. Exhibit B is the Spurs with Bruce Bowen.
Look at the Job Noc just did defending Durant. Durant could have had 50 and OKC would have won with a lesser defender on him.
No you don't trade away players that have that kind of heart. You keep them on your team.
KB
Look at the Job Noc just did defending Durant. Durant could have had 50 and OKC would have won with a lesser defender on him.
No you don't trade away players that have that kind of heart. You keep them on your team.
KB
Unless there is a massive case of foul trouble, I don't think we will be seeing much of Mr. May.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Interesting. Nocioni is almost exactly two years older than Garcia. Garcia's contract runs one year longer than Noc's. At the moment, there's about a 1.7 mil difference between them money wise. But Noc's is a declining contract, so by the time his would end, the difference would be less. I wouldn't have a problem with trading one of them. So I guess the question would be, who would bring back what we want. My suspicion is that it would be Nocioni.
Both players have holes in their games. But different holes. I love Nocioni's grit and toughness. But, he is limited in results in that area. Not his fault. If you could put his brain in Donte's body, then you would have something. I'm not trying to criticize him. I'm just saying that you can't turn a plow horse into a race horse. If anything, you have to admire what he accomplishes.
Cisco, on the other hand, looks tough. And I have no doubt that in some ways he is. But he can't bang down low the same way Nocioni can. Nocioni's game borders right on the edge of being dirty. Cisco looks like a hired killer, but it doesn't come across quite the same way in his game. Two different types of players. You choose. Which one do you think fits best on this team?
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