Jt

Ed Davis and Larry Sanders are two guys that I would love to see as Kings. Both can spot shoot and block shots, all you need next to Cousins and Hayes.

Subtle, but ineffective attempt to buff Hayes given JTs play right now. Hayes might be a backup for us, and that would hardly be a shocking revelation given his career and stature. A bit of a problem however, as even if we swap out Hickson and swap in a shotblocker, that still leaves 4 guys for the minutes of 3 guys. Now Hayes wanted to come here, he seems like a good guy, but if I could blink a Dalembert type player back onto this team I'd do so in a nanosecond and Hayes would be riding pine. And he's too expensive for that.
 
I wouldn't mind trading hickson to Miami for James Jones. I think both teams would benefit.


Unfortunately Hickson is exactly the opposite of the player Miami needs, and you can't really pull the wool over Riley's eyes when it comes to big men.

I was thinking Memphis until they got Speights (a similar, though I think lesser player). Maybe Atlanta? Orlando in a belated last ditch attempt to help Dwight? Washington to replace Blatche (but we don't want Blatche back)? New Orleans as a cheap filler for that hole on their team? Just depends if anybody is still high on the guy.
 
You think if we would have just kept our pick, taken Brandon Knight, and then tried to trade Beno to Miami for Jones that Miami would have done so?
 
I'd trade JJ to Atlanta for Hinrich. I think this guy could really help us, and he can play the 1 and 2. This trade works because we are under the cap, and I think Hinrich is a player that we should be able to resign at the end of the year. Even if we don't, it's not a big deal because I don't think we will keep JJ anyways.
The only thing is to see if Atlanta is willing to do this trade. They have a lot of options in the backcourt, so maybe they will take the gamble on a very athletic young big man.
It's always dangerous to trade young bigs, but I believe that DMC-JT-Hayes is a good rotation, and if we are able to get a veteran defensive C who doesn't need too many minutes, we are ok with our bigs.
 
I'd trade JJ to Atlanta for Hinrich. I think this guy could really help us, and he can play the 1 and 2. This trade works because we are under the cap, and I think Hinrich is a player that we should be able to resign at the end of the year. Even if we don't, it's not a big deal because I don't think we will keep JJ anyways.
The only thing is to see if Atlanta is willing to do this trade. They have a lot of options in the backcourt, so maybe they will take the gamble on a very athletic young big man.
It's always dangerous to trade young bigs, but I believe that DMC-JT-Hayes is a good rotation, and if we are able to get a veteran defensive C who doesn't need too many minutes, we are ok with our bigs.

Letting JJ walk would be just about the worst thing we could do as we traded away our 1st round pick for a one year rental! We need to get something for him that we like to salvage some value...a bit like Martin for Landry for Thornton trade!

Thats why I am 99% sure Hickson will be traded by the deadline!
 
Actually we didn't trade our 1st pick. It's very well protected and as long as the Kings are not going to make the playoffs, we are going to keep it. Anyways, of course I'm totally down with trading JJ for a very good player, but I was trying to be realistic. And I also believe that trading JJ is the best thing we can do. I'm pretty sure they are not going to resign JT and JJ, and we are going to lose one of them for nothing. I prefer to resign JT than JJ.
 
Actually we didn't trade our 1st pick. It's very well protected and as long as the Kings are not going to make the playoffs, we are going to keep it. Anyways, of course I'm totally down with trading JJ for a very good player, but I was trying to be realistic. And I also believe that trading JJ is the best thing we can do. I'm pretty sure they are not going to resign JT and JJ, and we are going to lose one of them for nothing. I prefer to resign JT than JJ.

Hinrich is not a bad idea at all. previously impossible, but now with Teague...well maybe still impossible as Atlanta wants to be a playoff team and will probably be looking to rely on his experience. Nonetheless, he is, or has been, exactly the sort of defensive minded veteran leader combo guardy pointguard that would be perfect behind Reke and Thornton. Just thing is, if we make that move, its not only giving up JJ, its also kind of a tacit admission of a mistake with Jimmer, and you mkae it very tough for him to climb out of the hole he is in. Is our front office prepared to do that only 6 months after they were all gaga over Jimmer? Dunno.

On its own merits though, and assuming Hinrich is still the same guy after the surgery, he's one of the good names you could throw out there. Help defense, help ball movement, steady our rotations, work alongside Thornton or Reke with no problems, maybe team with Hayes and a forward to be named later (Donte, but knowing us, Cisco) form a veteran defensive squad off the bench to releive the starters. On their end he's a big ending contract and they have a lot of money already tied up. They might not be planning on bringing him back, and could be looking for what they can get for him, but have too much money tied up in other guys to try the swap an ender for somebody's more talented long term contract tactic. Maybe a cheap kid, on an ending restricted contract himself, at a problem position for them could do it. Maybe.
 
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Hinrich is not a bad idea at all. previously impossible, but now with Teague...well maybe still impossible as Atlanta wants to be a playoff team and will probably be looking to rely on his experience. Nonetheless, he is, or has been, exactly the sort of defensive minded veteran leader combo guardy pointguard that would be perfect behind Reke and Thornton. Just thing is, if we make that move, its not only giving up JJ, its also kind of a tacit admission of a mistake with Jimmer, and you mkae it very tough for him to climb out of the hole he is in. Is our front office prepared to do that only 6 months after they were all gaga over Jimmer? Dunno.

On its own merits though, and assuming Hinrich is still the same guy after the surgery, he's one of the good names you could throw out there. Help defense, help ball movement, steady our rotations, work alongside Thornton or Reke with no problems, maybe team with Hayes and a forward to be named later (Donte, but knowing us, Cisco) form a veteran defensive squad off the bench to releive the starters. On their end he's a big ending contract and they have a lot of money already tied up. They might not be planning on bringing him back, and could be looking for what they can get for him, but have too much money tied up in other guys to try the swap an ender for somebody's more talented long term contract tactic. Maybe a cheap kid, on an ending restricted contract himself, at a problem position for them could do it. Maybe.

I love the idea of JJ and filler for Hinrich as well, and we were talking about this in the Personnel Moves section just a day or so ago. The other big factor for ATL is they are DESPERATE for size at either PF or C following the injuries to Collins and Horford. They were thin to begin with, but now they are playing Ivan Johnson as a regular rotation guy. He's doing admirably, but this is a playoff team we're talking about and they would likely be interested in helping their depth.

I would package Garcia and Hickson to ATL for Hinrich. This is for two reasons: 1. We get to keep our same salary point while getting a great veteran swing guard back, helping to mentor Tyreke, Jimmer, etc. 2. We get a big expiring just in case we want to make some additional moves in the offseason. As mentioned above, ATL could be interested seeking depth at SF and could like having a durable vet signed beyond this season, considering how much of their team is on 1-yr. deals. I like it, and think it could help both sides dramatically.
 
Subtle, but ineffective attempt to buff Hayes given JTs play right now. Hayes might be a backup for us, and that would hardly be a shocking revelation given his career and stature. A bit of a problem however, as even if we swap out Hickson and swap in a shotblocker, that still leaves 4 guys for the minutes of 3 guys. Now Hayes wanted to come here, he seems like a good guy, but if I could blink a Dalembert type player back onto this team I'd do so in a nanosecond and Hayes would be riding pine. And he's too expensive for that.

Brick- I wanted to ask you, do you see Varejao as a potential option? We have all mentioned how a 6'11 big with the ability to block and insert D is needed in the lineup, and he shot to mind. It's interesting- he and Salmons are close, contract wise, and they could want an SF like him. They would likely want something else in return (a pick?) but it was an interesting prospect. This, of course, assumes we acquire an SF through some other means, whether AK/Chandler or another deal. Just curious.
 
I think JT deserves a lot of credit for improving his game:

Season Fouls/48
08/09 6.49
09/10 5.66
10/11 5.77
11/12 4.07

I hope that not signing him to an extension doesn't come back to bite us.
 
Brick- I wanted to ask you, do you see Varejao as a potential option? We have all mentioned how a 6'11 big with the ability to block and insert D is needed in the lineup, and he shot to mind. It's interesting- he and Salmons are close, contract wise, and they could want an SF like him. They would likely want something else in return (a pick?) but it was an interesting prospect. This, of course, assumes we acquire an SF through some other means, whether AK/Chandler or another deal. Just curious.

Varejao would be a great fit next to Cousins, but he'll be EXPENSIVE. Like, an expiring and two 1sts expensive.
 
The ideal situation would have Whiteside developing into a 10 min/night 4th big for shotblocking duties, and hopefully becoming more and competing with Chuck for PT down the line.
 
I think JT deserves a lot of credit for improving his game:

Season Fouls/48
08/09 6.49
09/10 5.66
10/11 5.77
11/12 4.07

I hope that not signing him to an extension doesn't come back to bite us.

Don't panic. He'll still be an RFA. If anything, our history with extensions (Martin, Garcia) has shown that extended players tend to get over-market contracts on their extensions (just as, perhaps, MT23 got on the contract we resigned him to instead of waiting for him to sign an offer sheet). The important thing is that we are still in control. If JT signs an offer sheet, we match unless it's way too big. Or, we negotiate with him in the offseason and hopefully come to a contract that is not as inflated as our prior extensions have tended to be.

I'd guess that not giving JT an extension (which is normally reserved for star players) is not going to hurt us in our ability to hold on to him, and may help us not overpay. I sure think he's still in the organization's plans for the future. He's looking like a great complementary big man.
 
Don't panic. He'll still be an RFA. If anything, our history with extensions (Martin, Garcia) has shown that extended players tend to get over-market contracts on their extensions (just as, perhaps, MT23 got on the contract we resigned him to instead of waiting for him to sign an offer sheet). The important thing is that we are still in control. If JT signs an offer sheet, we match unless it's way too big. Or, we negotiate with him in the offseason and hopefully come to a contract that is not as inflated as our prior extensions have tended to be.

I'd guess that not giving JT an extension (which is normally reserved for star players) is not going to hurt us in our ability to hold on to him, and may help us not overpay. I sure think he's still in the organization's plans for the future. He's looking like a great complementary big man.

Another reason teams aren't doing extensions is the cap hold was reduced a ton for free agents.
 
I think JT deserves a lot of credit for improving his game:

Season Fouls/48
08/09 6.49
09/10 5.66
10/11 5.77
11/12 4.07

I hope that not signing him to an extension doesn't come back to bite us.

Good post. It shows that he has been maturing on the court, maybe it is less playing time, but he is certainly playing smarter than when he first started.
 
How much cheaper would he have been though at the end of last year? If he starts the rest of the year and averages a double/double his pay is probably going to be double what it would have been.

I don't really think guys like to sign extensions for way below what they think their market value can be. So if we offered JT, say, a 4 year extension at $3M per year, he wouldn't have taken something like that anyway. He'll probably command about the MLE as I don't think anybody sees JT as more than a role-player on the front line. I don't think we do, either.

I guess I just don't agree with your guess on what he would sign for an extension vs. what he'll end up signing for after a solid year. I doubt he'd have signed an extension for less than $5.5-6M per year. He certainly won't double that on the free market, and even if he got a $7M offer sheet, we'd probably have to think hard about matching it. Maybe we end up spending a bit more, say $1M per year, to keep him. But we do it with a year more knowledge of what type of player he is.
 
The Kings being an under the radar team that no one cares about may end up helping us with resigning JT. I doubt any team views him as more than a 4-5 million/year kind of guy which is very reasonable for the production he's given us as a starter. a 4/12 deal would be ideal, but I could see him getting a similar deal to what Chuck got.
 
I give JT credit because he's worked hard every offseason to get better. It shows in his game. He's got a back-to-the-basket game that he didn't have previously. And that's coming from a kid who to my mind isn't gifted when it comes to his coordination. Even now, he's got an ugly aspect to his back-to-the basket game, but it works for the most part, and that's what counts. Here's a guy who has been on a coaching carousel and didn't let that be an excuse. Every single year he comes into camp in shape and is a little better. He's a pro. That doesn't mean he's ever going to be considered a top 10 power forward in this league, but he is a lunch pail kind of guy who's going to help your team.
 
Subtle, but ineffective attempt to buff Hayes given JTs play right now. Hayes might be a backup for us, and that would hardly be a shocking revelation given his career and stature. A bit of a problem however, as even if we swap out Hickson and swap in a shotblocker, that still leaves 4 guys for the minutes of 3 guys. Now Hayes wanted to come here, he seems like a good guy, but if I could blink a Dalembert type player back onto this team I'd do so in a nanosecond and Hayes would be riding pine. And he's too expensive for that.

You're reaching, big time, hahaha. I was merely speaking about how you have two guys that can satisfy almost all of the defensive cravings you desire next to a potential franchise C, if you disagree? Well, oh well. JT is a good player, his defense is what it is, if you disagree, watch some games and in particular the area of HELP DEFENSE. As with most role players it depends on need. If you need offensive punch, JT all the way, defense and lockdown potential, Hayes all the way.

And I need to add, Ed Davis and Larry Sanders aren't what I would consider "Dalembert type". Both have the foot speed and athletic ability to guard PF's.
 
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I don't really think guys like to sign extensions for way below what they think their market value can be. So if we offered JT, say, a 4 year extension at $3M per year, he wouldn't have taken something like that anyway. He'll probably command about the MLE as I don't think anybody sees JT as more than a role-player on the front line. I don't think we do, either.

I guess I just don't agree with your guess on what he would sign for an extension vs. what he'll end up signing for after a solid year. I doubt he'd have signed an extension for less than $5.5-6M per year. He certainly won't double that on the free market, and even if he got a $7M offer sheet, we'd probably have to think hard about matching it. Maybe we end up spending a bit more, say $1M per year, to keep him. But we do it with a year more knowledge of what type of player he is.

I think your way off. Don't be shocked when its $10mill + per year.
 
I think your way off. Don't be shocked when its $10mill + per year.

If it's 10 mil per year, we just have to let him go. No way he deserves so much money. I think he'll end up in a Glenn Davis / Brendon Bass range, between 5 and 7 mil, depending on how he plays this season.
 
I think your way off. Don't be shocked when its $10mill + per year.


yeah no, people don't look at him like that. Doesn't have winning cachet, or the shotblocking all those silly winning teams around the league overvalue so much. Nobody's going to gamble their job on him at $10mil per.

Now cold somebody get stupid and dropa deal on him like Golden State did on Kwame? Maybe. Maybe. But I doubt it. In the new economy he would be an MLE type guy, but I don't know if teams will even bother at that level because they'll probably figure we'll match.
 
Kris Humphries, a big for a similarly bad team, averaged a double double last year and found a soft offseason market....settling for a one year, 8M deal. JT's numbers aren't as good as his, so I can't see him getting 10M/year
 
Subtle, but ineffective attempt to buff Hayes given JTs play right now. Hayes might be a backup for us, and that would hardly be a shocking revelation given his career and stature. A bit of a problem however, as even if we swap out Hickson and swap in a shotblocker, that still leaves 4 guys for the minutes of 3 guys. Now Hayes wanted to come here, he seems like a good guy, but if I could blink a Dalembert type player back onto this team I'd do so in a nanosecond and Hayes would be riding pine. And he's too expensive for that.

I don't really understand your obsession with Dalembert. He has a terrible B-ball IQ, his offensive game was largely ineffective with us, and it's not like he was a great veteran leader/mentor or anything. A healthy Chuck Hayes is literally better at every facet of basketball you can think of outside of shotblocking.
 
I don't really understand your obsession with Dalembert. He has a terrible B-ball IQ, his offensive game was largely ineffective with us, and it's not like he was a great veteran leader/mentor or anything. A healthy Chuck Hayes is literally better at every facet of basketball you can think of outside of shotblocking.

And you would be in the minority....couple with the fact that one if getting payed more than the other and one is considered as a bit of a bargain while the other is a bit overpaid. I will let you figure out who is who but I would not be holding my breath!

Oh and just as a side note, interesting that a pretty much the same team in Houston (without Hayes but with Dalembert) is having a hell of a lot more productive season than they did last year! Go figure!
 
And you would be in the minority....couple with the fact that one if getting payed more than the other and one is considered as a bit of a bargain while the other is a bit overpaid. I will let you figure out who is who but I would not be holding my breath!

Oh and just as a side note, interesting that a pretty much the same team in Houston (without Hayes but with Dalembert) is having a hell of a lot more productive season than they did last year! Go figure!

Last I checked, Hayes wasn't playing next to a 6'11 270 pound center in Houston. Dally has terrible B-Ball IQ, is an average at best post-man defender, and no offensive game whatsoever. I'm more than confident that Hayes(if healthy) will end up being more productive than Dally by the end of the year
 
I think your way off. Don't be shocked when its $10mill + per year.

Oh, I would be. Maybe he gets that, but I would darn well be shocked, and no amount of you predicting he's going to get that would change that shock. I suppose we'll have to agree to both think that each other are way off.
 
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