Jordan, McGee and the other bigs at #12

[sactownfan]

You know the more i think about it the more im at peace with drafting a project PF based more on size and raw athleticism. As long as the player can Reb. and Blk shots i will consider this a successful draft... and if this player can develop a post game i think we will have a solid future core.

JaVale McGee is probably my top choice for the 12th pick... He is deffinitly a project but is a proven talented shot blocker and good rebounder... he has the face to the basket offensive game Petrie loves and is working on a post game... all the motor reviews are that he is very motivated and eager to learn... i think he could be well balanced and worth the pick in 2-3 years... "McGee got a big boost from his measurements. His enormous 9-foot-6½ standing reach was tops in the camp and his 7-foot-6 wingspan was second only to John Riek, who has a freakish 7-foot-8¾ wingspan. McGee also weighed in at a respectable 244 pounds. Clearly he's been putting on weight in preparation for the draft, which might explain why he seemed to struggle in the drills." chad ford espn...

Jordans numbers are deceiving in many ways... he didn't play alot of mins... but why couldn't he crack the starting lineup for texas A&M???? hes been described as a reb/shot blk/and dunking monster... and if this is true and can be carried over to the next level, i would be extremely pleased with a bigger, younger version of Ben Wallace... with the offensive talent we already have and will always have as long as Petrie is here... Having a Ben Wallace type player might not hurt our teams offense that much.

other players i would consider but not as high on are Alexis Ajinca, Anthony Randolph, and Speights...

also keep in mind i take DJ A., Westbrook, or Alexander in a heart beat, before all these players

 

[nbrans]

Jordan scares me a bit because he's just so completely raw. I mean, he could barely get off the bench at the end of the year for A&M, he shot 43% from the free throw line, and he only had 7 steals the entire year. His rebounding numbers were ok, but nothing that blows anyone else away.

You see him in drills and watch the way he gets off the floor and you start thinking, "huh, that guy looks like an NBA player." And it's not like Dwight Howard is so skilled offensively. But still, it's almost like picking Saer Sene when you're talking development level.

I'd be fine with the pick because all these guys have question marks, but can't see him contributing for a very long time.

 

[CruzDude]

McGee bothers me as his level of competition in only 2 years in the WAC is no where near that done by Hibbert in 4 years or Thompson, even in a smaller school, did in 4 years. Plus not being allowed by his mom to work out for any team drafting lower than 12 could be a big mistake.

Arthur seems to have just about fallen out of the lottery by all the mock sites whereas Randolph has risen a bit in the lottery, is only 19, seems to have a great skill set, is a lefty and terrific ball handler. Too bad his favorite team is the Lakers!!!

Hibbert is another Georgetown BIG (7-1, 278) who appears to have a long career in the NBA but needs to improve mobility. Good hands and soft touch around the basket. Slightly less risk than Randolph but a lesser skill set as well.

So I go with Randolph (if Alexander is not available).

 

[nbrans]

^Hmm.... you sure about that? Because McGee put up better numbers in his sophomore year than Hibbert did in his senior year.

McGee: 14.1 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 2.8 blocks
Hibbert: 13.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 2.2 blocks

Per 40:
McGee: 20.7 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 4.1 blocks
Hibbert: 20.3 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 3.4 blocks

Sure, level of competition and all that, but if you're going to count Thompson's numbers at Rider I don't see how you could completely discount the numbers McGee put up vs. Hibbert's. And that certainly doesn't justify saying that what he did was "nowhere near" the other guys.

 

[bajaden]

^Hmm.... you sure about that? Because McGee put up better numbers in his sophomore year than Hibbert did in his senior year.

McGee: 14.1 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 2.8 blocks
Hibbert: 13.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 2.2 blocks

Per 40:
McGee: 20.7 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 4.1 blocks
Hibbert: 20.3 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 3.4 blocks

Sure, level of competition and all that, but if you're going to count Thompson's numbers at Rider I don't see how you could completely discount the numbers McGee put up vs. Hibbert's. And that certainly doesn't justify saying that what he did was "nowhere near" the other guys.

So then, your saying we should draft Thompson, being's he put up better numbers than both of them. He was a 20/12 guy that improved every year. He also played his best games the few times he face top competition. Such as when he played against Beasley and Kansas St.

 

[nbrans]

So then, your saying we should draft Thompson, being's he put up better numbers than both of them. He was a 20/12 guy that improved every year. He also played his best games the few times he face top competition. Such as when he played against Beasley and Kansas St.

I was just pointing out that it's inaccurate to say that Hibbert has done way more than McGee. I haven't seen Thompson play, so I don't know if he's worth the #12, but the draft consensus puts him farther down in the first round.

 

[CruzDude]

I was just pointing out that it's inaccurate to say that Hibbert has done way more than McGee. I haven't seen Thompson play, so I don't know if he's worth the #12, but the draft consensus puts him farther down in the first round.

Hibbert is a college BIG in a tough conference (Big East) playing against more competitive BIGS for 4-years all of which is "more" than McGee who only played 2 years (only started 1-year for 31 games), in a weak conference (WAC) and not against the level of competition that Hibbert did for 4 years starting 121 out of 134 games.

Draft consensus on Thompson isn't worth the match to burn it as he was injured and did not participate in many workouts. He is very much a GP type of player but did play in a small college league.

 

[Entity]

Pesonally I don't think any of them are just head and shoulders above Justin Williams at rebounding, shot blocking, or defense in general.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Pesonally I don't think any of them are just head and shoulders above Justin Williams at rebounding, shot blocking, or defense in general.

You could be right, you could be wrong, and if spot on - that means none of them will likely stick for long in the league since that's what happened to Justin Williams. He remains a free agent after the Rockets had no use for his services after a 10-day contract last season. I think I'd rather take my luck with one of "them" to breakout as opposed to Justin who had his NBA chance and may or may not get another one.

 

[nbrans]

Justin Williams didn't bounce out because his defense wasn't good enough. He didn't stick because he wasn't competent enough on offense to stay on the floor, and becuase he's ultimately not that big. All of the bigs we'd consider at #12 are offensively far superior (except for possibly DeAndre Jordan), and while they may not be as good on defense, some have the potential to get there.

 

[BMiller52]

Justin Williams didn't bounce out because his defense wasn't good enough. He didn't stick because he wasn't competent enough on offense to stay on the floor, and becuase he's ultimately not that big. All of the bigs we'd consider at #12 are offensively far superior (except for possibly DeAndre Jordan), and while they may not be as good on defense, some have the potential to get there.

Arthur reminds me of Justin defensively to be honest, but infinitely better on offense.

 

[Jerichoholic]

Arthur reminds me of Justin defensively to be honest, but infinitely better on offense.

There is no doubt that Arthur is a better offensive player than Justin Williams who pretty much relied on put backs. Arthur has some nice moves around the basket and a developing jump shot.

Defensively however I think Justin was much better than Arthur is. Justin is taller, longer, and more athletic which allowed him to block shots, get tough rebounds, and alter shots around the basket...all of which Arthur doesn't do.

Overall though these two players are very close when it comes to overall talent IMO, they just are on different ends of the spectrum. We know that Justin hardly made it off the bench for us and I believe Arthur will be the same...which is why we better pass on him.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

There is no doubt that Arthur is a better offensive player than Justin Williams who pretty much relied on put backs. Arthur has some nice moves around the basket and a developing jump shot.

Defensively however I think Justin was much better than Arthur is. Justin is taller, longer, and more athletic which allowed him to block shots, get tough rebounds, and alter shots around the basket...all of which Arthur doesn't do.

Overall though these two players are very close when it comes to overall talent IMO, they just are on different ends of the spectrum. We know that Justin hardly made it off the bench for us and I believe Arthur will be the same...which is why we better pass on him.

Justin Williams had poor combine results last I remember and he's probably the same size as Arthur given how hilariously inaccurate that 6'10" listing of his is.

He could have been a very solid player for us, if only he had a brain. Arthur on the other hand at least appears that he has, given that he realizes defense isn't always about jumping out of position to pick up a block

 

[Jerichoholic]

Justin Williams had poor combine results last I remember and he's probably the same size as Arthur given how hilariously inaccurate that 6'10" listing of his is.

He could have been a very solid player for us, if only he had a brain. Arthur on the other hand at least appears that he has, given that he realizes defense isn't always about jumping out of position to pick up a block

While Justin was a disruptor around the rim he certainly wasn't a great one on one or even team defender, that is true. But while Justin jumps out of position to block, Arthur jumps out of position to foul. It hasn't been talked about on this board a lot but Arthur is a fouling machine...and not productive fouls either.

Arthur was too soft to even hang with the bigs in the post on the college level, he will get eaten alive in the NBA. I've watched him play a lot in college and not only do I think it's possible he will be a bust...I think it's extremely likely.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

While Justin was a disruptor around the rim he certainly wasn't a great one on one or even team defender, that is true. But while Justin jumps out of position to block, Arthur jumps out of position to foul. It hasn't been talked about on this board a lot but Arthur is a fouling machine...and not productive fouls either.

Arthur was too soft to even hang with the bigs in the post on the college level, he will get eaten alive in the NBA. I've watched him play a lot in college and not only do I think it's possible he will be a bust...I think it's extremely likely.

That is true about the fouls. It's possibly something he can fix with good coaching. The same could have been true about Justin's defense, but that all goes back to whether or not they can learn and adjust.

The only reason I'm optimistic about Arthur was that he did have good games against some talented NBA-level big men. Well, more specifically that game he had against Florida when they had Horford and Noah. That's slightly more comforting than Shelden, who had red flags for this all over the place.

 

[Entity]

Justin Williams didn't bounce out because his defense wasn't good enough. He didn't stick because he wasn't competent enough on offense to stay on the floor, and becuase he's ultimately not that big. All of the bigs we'd consider at #12 are offensively far superior (except for possibly DeAndre Jordan), and while they may not be as good on defense, some have the potential to get there.

exactly right. Justin was lost on offense if it wasn't a put back rebound he had no idea what to do or where to be. I think his rebounding is superior to most bigs available at #12. Joey Dorsey does intrigue me in the 2nd round though.

 

[CruzDude]

OK, lets step back a second and look at who you all and the media think (those I believe are reliable) are the BIGS that should be near #10-#12:

Anthony Randolph - (super athletic but @ 6-10 weighs barely 200 lb!!! not strong)
Brook Lopez - (good offensive skills but slow, not very agile, has dropped to 10-11 range)

Then this very rough consensus, who are now in the 13-18 range:

Darrell Arthur - (a shoot first type, med. rebounder, a SF in NBA)
DeAndre Jordan - (giant questions, horrible FT, college C only)
Kosta Koufos - (big, slow, not aggressive, a Euro C)
Roy Hibbert - (big, not great athlete, not quick, poor rebounder for 7-2)
JaVale McGee - (Very athletic for 7-0, another horrible FT, 1-2 yr away)
Mareese Speights - (a PF in NBA, good athlete/strong, defends, rebounds)
Robin Lopez - (defender/rebounder, poor scorer, horrible FT 53%)
Jason Thompson - excellent NBA body and rebounder, from mid-major school

NOTE: all comments above and below are mine based on reading some 4-5 pundits I believe are knowlegeable and who have talked to many GMs and scouts.

COMMENTS: Robin Lopez has risen big time in the rankings as a defender-blocker-rebounder in NBA but with poor offense skills (that can be fixed) and runs floor well, is quicker than his brother (I think).
Marreese Speights is intriguing as he seems a good PF type who could come off the bench his first year and help while learning if his attitude and work ethic can be more consistent. but then there is JaVale McGee, the biggest question among all the bigs. Not much experience but fantastic skill set, very athletic, can be great shot blocker and rebounder but needs more muscle. Needs a year or two to get to NBA level. Imagine him at Reno D-League team under guidance of Kings for a year playing full time and only a 2-hr drive away?? And think he and Hawes in 09-10 tutored by Brad and Mikki. Parish and McHale with Kevin as Dennis Johnson circa 2010..... ahhh, anyway.

Justin Williams a favorite of mine a year ago just is not an NBA type and Nbrans and Jeriholic threads above hit the nail on the head about his jumping out of position to block and just not being an NBA type. In a way I see the same for Darrell Arthur as a not an NBA PF but maybe a skinny SF with rebounding and a wide shot selection.

All this on the premise that Joe Alexander is NOT available at #12.

 

[bajaden]

OK, lets step back a second and look at who you all and the media think (those I believe are reliable) are the BIGS that should be near #10-#12:

Anthony Randolph - (super athletic but @ 6-10 weighs barely 200 lb!!! not strong)
Brook Lopez - (good offensive skills but slow, not very agile, has dropped to 10-11 range)

Then this very rough consensus, who are now in the 13-18 range:

Darrell Arthur - (a shoot first type, med. rebounder, a SF in NBA)
DeAndre Jordan - (giant questions, horrible FT, college C only)
Kosta Koufos - (big, slow, not aggressive, a Euro C)
Roy Hibbert - (big, not great athlete, not quick, poor rebounder for 7-2)
JaVale McGee - (Very athletic for 7-0, another horrible FT, 1-2 yr away)
Mareese Speights - (a PF in NBA, good athlete/strong, defends, rebounds)
Robin Lopez - (defender/rebounder, poor scorer, horrible FT 53%)

NOTE: all comments above and below are mine based on reading some 4-5 pundits I believe are knowlegeable and who have talked to many GMs and scouts.

COMMENTS: Robin Lopez has risen big time in the rankings as a defender-blocker-rebounder in NBA but with poor offense skills (that can be fixed) and runs floor well, is quicker than his brother (I think).
Marreese Speights is intriguing as he seems a good PF type who could come off the bench his first year and help while learning if his attitude and work ethic can be more consistent. but then there is JaVale McGee, the biggest question among all the bigs. Not much experience but fantastic skill set, very athletic, can be great shot blocker and rebounder but needs more muscle. Needs a year or two to get to NBA level. Imagine him at Reno D-League team under guidance of Kings for a year playing full time and only a 2-hr drive away?? And think he and Hawes in 09-10 tutored by Brad and Mikki. Parish and McHale with Kevin as Dennis Johnson circa 2010..... ahhh, anyway.

Justin Williams a favorite of mine a year ago just is not an NBA type and Nbrans and Jeriholic threads above hit the nail on the head about his jumping out of position to block and just not being an NBA type. In a way I see the same for Darrell Arthur as a not an NBA PF but maybe a skinny SF with rebounding and a wide shot selection.

All this on the premise that Joe Alexander is NOT available at #12.

I believe that Koufas was born and raised in the USA and is not a european player. Anyway, another player you might add to your list that is sort of flying under the radar is Jason Thompson. 6'11" PF/C. From what I've read at some of the workouts, he's getting very good reviews. I've also heard that the Warriors might be interested in him.

 

[CruzDude]

I believe that Koufas was born and raised in the USA and is not a european player. Anyway, another player you might add to your list that is sort of flying under the radar is Jason Thompson. 6'11" PF/C. From what I've read at some of the workouts, he's getting very good reviews. I've also heard that the Warriors might be interested in him.

But Koufas plays like a Euro center! Not very mobile or quick, and no demonstrated aggressiveness needed to compete in the NBA.

Jason Thompson, yep. I'm keeping him under my radar as well as GP might see him as a true dark horse and select him. I like his experience, skills, athleticism and in particular his 20/12 even at a small college. And he had something like double-doubles in every game last year except two and has hit 30+ points several times and 17 rebounds at least once.