John Salmons?

[treewoman]

I really like John and I am feeling pretty sorry for him. Watching him the last few games has really reminded me of the importance of how a player feels. To go from starter and arguably our greatest producer to being off the bench and struggling is very difficult. I think it would take tremendous willpower to overcome the disappointment of being our star one minute to just another bench guy. For him, for his game, it is crucial that he be able to do so. Watching him last night I wanted to reach out and give him a little hug and tell him “I believe in you, believe in yourself.” I would be happy to see him remain as a King but if we can not find a place on our roster for him to shine I hope he finds another team that can.

 

[Rug King]

He's the odd man out here. Artest and Martin are going to start. He just needs to tough it out as he'll more than likely be the starting sf next year if not sooner.
One thing has to be done first. A new team for Artest.

 

[dude12]

I'm actually puzzled as to why he doesn't assert himself more when coming off the bench.

 

[Bricklayer]

Career long problem with John -- reason why A.I. called him a ***** (not in the cat way).

And John is not happy. Nor really should he be.

Also his trade value plummets the longer this goes on, and it likely has not even hit its worst yet, since Bibby and Artest have not yet fully reseized their full starters' minutes.

End result will be a trade demand at some point -- guy knows he can be a high teens scorer as a starter. Guy has always fallen iinto passivity and confusion when faced with challenges to his role. Just be a question of whether it happens around the deadline, at the end of theyear, if Artest is going to walk, if we (idiotically) decide to resign Ron to a big contract. But the situation is not tenable long term. He will, I am sure, still have a good game here and there, but he has never brought it consistently unless he was the man, and knew he was the man.

 

[Cal-Kings]

He's being doubled more now. Teams have seen his recent success and are stopping him by doubling when he gets the ball. He's passing out ok. But he's not the guy to cut and get open and spot shoot. He's always created his own shot. Doubling limits his game more than other guys.

 

[Jerichoholic]

I really can't blame John for what's happening, he simply plays better when he starts, there are a lot of players like that. I do wish he wouldn't pout about it as much though as he really has seemed to put less effort forth but he certainly doesn't deserve the treatment he has gotten, we probably would do the same thing if we were in his position. It's all about politics, no matter how well he plays he knows that on the current version of the Kings he will be nothing more than a bench player when everyone is healthy.

This is where Petrie disappoints me most, because you can't blame Reggie for this one, he is handling things as well as a coach can in this situation, IMO.
Petrie needs to make a move here, Artest probably will leave at the end of the year unless we try to extend him and Salmons' trade value will never be higher. This is Petrie's responsibility.

 

[Gary]

Personally I like John. I think he is a damn good player when starting. I think he fits the team better than Artest does. But we all know I don't like Artest sooooo..

 

[Entity]

Personally I like John. I think he is a damn good player when starting. I think he fits the team better than Artest does. But we all know I don't like Artest sooooo..

Teams don't draw up game plans for Salmons they are passive at best when looking at John starting. Now I bet teams aren't so passive in planning before playing the kings with Artest.

 

[ESP47]

I agree with Iverson here. Salmons is acting like a "*****".

He's starting over Ron Artest and is still crying because Artest came back. Who cares if he doesn't like the situation or doesn't like Artest personally? Whatever it is he needs to grow a pair and go out there and show everyone that he's a great player. He'll never be considered a good player if he only decides to play when he thinks the situation is perfect for him. He's scored 9, 0 and 4 points the last three games. Thats not even his season average per game. He pulled the same crap when Artest came back from his suspension earlier in the year. It's not like hes not getting minutes right now but he definitely won't get any if he keeps up his pouting.

I don't think this has anything to do with starting and everything to do with playing with "stars" ie Iverson and Artest. I just don't get it. I don't think he can play with guys who hog the ball more than he does. He plays just fine with Kevin Martin but can't play with Artest and im wondering if he'll be able to play with Bibby. Martin doesn't have the ball in his hands all the time while Artest and Bibby do.

 

[SLAB]

I agree with Iverson here. Salmons is acting like a "*****".

He's starting over Ron Artest and is still crying because Artest came back. Who cares if he doesn't like the situation or doesn't like Artest personally? Whatever it is he needs to grow a pair and go out there and show everyone that he's a great player. He'll never be considered a good player if he only decides to play when he thinks the situation is perfect for him. He's scored 9, 0 and 4 points the last three games. Thats not even his season average per game. He pulled the same crap when Artest came back from his suspension earlier in the year. It's not like hes not getting minutes right now but he definitely won't get any if he keeps up his pouting.

1000% agree.

The guy is a headcase, and is now acting completly selfish. News flash, John, You get more minutes based on how hard you go at it, and not only are you soon to lose your starting gig, your also soon to lose minutes to someone more deserving, like Cisco.

Welcome back to mediocrity Kings fans...We all knew (or at least should have) 18/5/5 ,or whatever he averaged as a starter, wouldn't last.

 

[VF21]

I agree with Iverson here. Salmons is acting like a "*****".

He's starting over Ron Artest and is still crying because Artest came back. Who cares if he doesn't like the situation or doesn't like Artest personally? Whatever it is he needs to grow a pair and go out there and show everyone that he's a great player. He'll never be considered a good player if he only decides to play when he thinks the situation is perfect for him. He's scored 9, 0 and 4 points the last three games. Thats not even his season average per game. He pulled the same crap when Artest came back from his suspension earlier in the year. It's not like hes not getting minutes right now but he definitely won't get any if he keeps up his pouting.

I don't think this has anything to do with starting and everything to do with playing with "stars" ie Iverson and Artest. I just don't get it. I don't think he can play with guys who hog the ball more than he does. He plays just fine with Kevin Martin but can't play with Artest and im wondering if he'll be able to play with Bibby. Martin doesn't have the ball in his hands all the time while Artest and Bibby do.

Yeah, Allen Iverson is such a giant of a man and excellent role model.

As far as Salmons goes, what we're seeing is him trying to adjust - again - to a much reduced role after he put up incredible numbers while Artest was out. If you can HONESTLY tell me you'd be any different I'm afraid I'd have to challenge you over it. It's real easy for armchair NBA players to say stupid things like "he needs to grow a pair and go out there" blah, blah, blah.

There's ever reason for Salmons to be upset. After what I saw of Artest last night, I would much rather have Salmons out there than the guy who thinks he knows better than the head coach (and not for the first time) how to run the team.

 

[SLAB]

Trust me, I know who the ultimate headcase is, but because we have a mega-nut on the team doesn't mean that there can't be another.

John can't excell as a reserve. Things need to go 'his way' or he just doesn't have what he has shown he can do. He's done the same thing throughout his entire career.

If that doesn't qualify to some degree of 'headcase' I don't know what does.

 

[ESP47]

It's not name calling, it's just agreeing with what his past teammates have said.

How is he not acting like a headcase? Just because he keeps it all inside and doesn't show it like Artest doesn't mean he isn't acting like a headcase. Salmons can score in almost every game at a 50% pace and score almost any time he wants, yet he refuses to just because Artest is on the court or on the bench in uniform. It's crazy. It's the shadiest form of pouting i've seen on this team. I'd like to see you try and defend how he's been acting these last 3 games.

 

[VF21]

It's not name calling, it's just agreeing with what his past teammates have said.

How is he not acting like a headcase? Just because he keeps it all inside and doesn't show it like Artest doesn't mean he isn't acting like a headcase. Salmons can score in almost every game at a 50% pace and score almost any time he wants, yet he refuses to just because Artest is on the court or on the bench in uniform. It's crazy. It's the shadiest form of pouting i've seen on this team. I'd like to see you try and defend how he's been acting these last 3 games.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize you two had such intimate knowledge of John Salmons and his "refusal" to score at a 50% pace any time he wants because Artest is on the court. That is total and complete and utter hogwash.

Defend how he's been acting? I understand the trouble he's having in readjusting and I'm not buying into the "pouting" accusations being thrown around here as though they're fact and not just opinion.

He refuses to play at his best because of Artest? That's just silly. He may be struggling to adjust with his reduced role but I defy you to show me how that proves he's refusing to do anything.

 

[ESP47]

We don't have intimate knowledge of it. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that his play drops off dramatically when Artest is in the game. He still gets 30-35 minutes a game when Artest plays. The only reason he gets less is because he plays like the way he has these last few games. Why should Theus give him minutes when he is barely producing? It's John's fault he's not getting minutes, not Artest's.

There is no adjustment period when John is starting and Artest is on the bench. It's the same team with the same players. Just a different Salmons mentality.

It's easy to prove that he's refusing to do anything. He's taken 13 shots in the last 3 games over 74 minutes. 13 shots, 13 points in 3 games. In the DAL game before Artest came back he took 16 shots, had 22 points in only 42 minutes. Compare each and every game before that and its the same story. John is contributing less than half of what he's capable of because he can't play with a slightly reduced role (who wouldnt love 30 minutes a game in the NBA?). Obviously we don't agree on this and theres no use in carrying the argument on and on. All im saying is that John isnt on the floor with Ron all the time and he still can't produce. Obviously its all in his head. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[NikateeN]

I have barely even seen Salmons get the ball since Artests return, with Martin, Bibby, and Artest taking so many shots, somebodys PPG are gonna decrease, its only natural.

 

[Kingzrool]

We don't have intimate knowledge of it. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that his play drops off dramatically when Artest is in the game. He still gets 30-35 minutes a game when Artest plays. The only reason he gets less is because he plays like the way he has these last few games. Why should Theus give him minutes when he is barely producing? It's John's fault he's not getting minutes, not Artest's.

There is no adjustment period when John is starting and Artest is on the bench. It's the same team with the same players. Just a different Salmons mentality.

It's easy to prove that he's refusing to do anything. He's taken 13 shots in the last 3 games over 74 minutes. 13 shots, 13 points in 3 games. In the DAL game before Artest came back he took 16 shots, had 22 points in only 42 minutes. Compare each and every game before that and its the same story. John is contributing less than half of what he's capable of because he can't play with a slightly reduced role (who wouldnt love 30 minutes a game in the NBA?). Obviously we don't agree on this and theres no use in carrying the argument on and on. All im saying is that John isnt on the floor with Ron all the time and he still can't produce. Obviously its all in his head. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

I am usually defending Salmons, But I agree with this post. We all ripped KT a new one for having the exact same attitude. Salmons has been given every opportunity to hold his minutes, way more than he would have from Adelman. If John wants to show that he is a valuable team player, he needs to be able to contribute consistantly off the bench and with limited minutes as well as a starter with lots of minutes. He will then be rewarded, IMO.

 

[VF21]

It's easy to prove that he's refusing to do anything. He's taken 13 shots in the last 3 games over 74 minutes. 13 shots, 13 points in 3 games. In the DAL game before Artest came back he took 16 shots, had 22 points in only 42 minutes. Compare each and every game before that and its the same story. John is contributing less than half of what he's capable of because he can't play with a slightly reduced role (who wouldnt love 30 minutes a game in the NBA?). Obviously we don't agree on this and theres no use in carrying the argument on and on. All im saying is that John isnt on the floor with Ron all the time and he still can't produce. Obviously its all in his head. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

Sorry, but your observations do not PROVE that Salmons is REFUSING to do anything. You're making a conclusion based on what you feel are the pertinent facts but saying he's refusing to produce is not a logical conclusion IMHO.

You're making it sound as though he's some kind of cancer over this and I simply will not buy into that assumption.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I knew this was going to happen as soon as he went back to the bench, its no surprise to me. He's just like Kenny Thomas in that regard, it's like he's rendered useless once he isnt starting, not sure why, either. But, knowing what he DOES do as a starter has to give Petrie a bit more confidence in the idea of trading Ron...although I still wouldnt do it, I actually do see him trading both Ron and Mike(unless we rip off like 10 wins in a row or something and give him a reason NOT to trade those guys)

 

[bloom]

This is a problem I started to have when he whined to the BEE about not starting, then he came and had a couple bad games after that. I think it’s all in this guy’s head. He needs to understand that no matter what, Artest is the starter. He’s going to come off the bench as a 6th man and he’ll have to produce the way he normally does with several less minutes. He does hog the ball a lot so that might be a problem, especially when you have both Mike and Ron in the game (especially Ron).

He should understand that being a bench guy has its rewards. You don’t need to be a starter to be good. It’s all about being on the court at the end of games and he’s still getting minutes. Apparently Reggie also believes enough in John to put him in the last seconds of a close game. He just needs to get over the fact that “starting” doesn’t need to change your game. But hopefully he’ll find a way to play like he did with Artest out.

I hope it’s not an intimidating factor for John.

Why should Theus give him minutes when he is barely producing? It's John's fault he's not getting minutes, not Artest's.

Why does Theus give more minutes to Artest when the guy just plays like crap? I don’t understand the mentality of allowing a player to play in the game when they’re screwing it up for the rest of the team. Forcing 6 shots and then coming back and making a three point play doesn’t cover up the fact that he screwed up 6 times before that shot. That’s just an example.

We all ripped KT a new one for having the exact same attitude.

That’s the first thing that came to my mind about John’s attitude. People were all over KT when he said that he wanted to start or even showed a slight discomfort about not starting. I know people have emotions and it effects them. But he needs to control those emotions and do his job.

End result will be a trade demand at some point -- guy knows he can be a high teens scorer as a starter.

And that’s the problem with NBA players today. He could have signed with the Suns but he decided to come here. He signed with us, and he came off the bench. No matter how good you play, your just a piece to the puzzle and if that means coming off the bench, then that’s the sacrifice that you have to take for the team (I don’t think Artest is a piece to the puzzle, nor is Bibby but they’re here right now)…Plus, I don’t think he should be demanding a trade just because he thinks he’s a starter. I guess I don’t understand how it works in the NBA.

 

[Bricklayer]

I guess I don’t understand how it works in the NBA.

People always act so mystified, and yet that is just the way the world works. How many jobs have you had? Most people hop form one to the next looking for fulfillment...or a bigger paycheck. Or both. It is no different in the NBA. Its a job. John knows now that he has the potential to be a VP with a corner office. We are asking him to go back to the mail room. Of course he will want to go elsewhere if that persists. So would any of us in our day to day jobs. The only differing factors are the guaranteed contracts and of course large sums of money. But those only mitigate, they don't change normal human urges towards achievement.

BTW, which is not a defense of John's career-long, and it is career-long, tendency to sulk and give less than 100% when these things happen. That is inexcusable when you are getting paid enormous guaranteed money -- taking advantage of the guaranteed contract. It is the very trait that made me object to us signing John Salmons in the first place. But be that as it may, the underlying urge to go someplace where he can show his stuff is the same thing everybody else feels when they hit a glass ceiling at their jobs. Only now the guaranteed contract is a trap rather than a benefit. He can't just interview around and leave for the best offer. Hence the idea of a trade demand.

 

[VF21]

...Its a job. John knows now that he has the potential to be a VP with a corner office. We are asking him to go back to the mail room. Of course he will want to go elsewhere if that persists. So would any of us in our day to day jobs...

Excellent analogy. My main objection is most likely with the semantics of a couple of posters. I don't think Salmons is consciously refusing to perform. That makes no sense whatsoever. I think his feelings are hurt (for lack of a better expression) and I think it's showing in his play.

EDIT: My comments, of course, were made before you added the addendum to your own, which I happen to disagree with at least in part.

 

[Bricklayer]

Excellent analogy. My main objection is most likely with the semantics of a couple of posters. I don't think Salmons is consciously refusing to perform. That makes no sense whatsoever. I think his feelings are hurt (for lack of a better expression) and I think it's showing in his play.

EDIT: My comments, of course, were made before you added the addendum to your own, which I happen to disagree with at least in part.

I watched him in Philly -- it was exactly the same thing. I have no great respect for John Salmons and his pout. But its something predictable and manageable...if the front office hasn't hit snooze again.

 

[Gary]

I am usually defending Salmons, But I agree with this post. We all ripped KT a new one for having the exact same attitude. Salmons has been given every opportunity to hold his minutes, way more than he would have from Adelman. If John wants to show that he is a valuable team player, he needs to be able to contribute consistantly off the bench and with limited minutes as well as a starter with lots of minutes. He will then be rewarded, IMO.

whoa.. disagee with that.

Salmons has basically been relegated to the bench in favor of Artest who seems to think that he needs to take all the shots, and need to have the ball in his hands during crunch time.

Salmons isn't the problem here.

 

[VF21]

whoa.. disagee with that.

Salmons has basically been relegated to the bench in favor of Artest who seems to think that he needs to take all the shots, and need to have the ball in his hands during crunch time.

Salmons isn't the problem here.

Totally agree!

Ron Artest does nothing for the long-term plans of this team. Well, except relegate them to more years of suckage. When Artest was out, John Salmons came in and played admirably, showing we can and should move Artest if we really want to look to the future. Salmons could continue to shine, which could conceivably get us some decent trade offers for him as we continue the "reconstruction"...

Artest taking Salmons' minutes just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and his tip-toeing along the line of more player-coach problems similar to his track record doesn't help any.

Once again, discussion is dissolving into the routine of trying to either defend what Artest has done, overlook it or support it. I'm just beyond tired of it being "All Artest all the time" - He's more suited for his own Sirius station than play on the Kings.

 

[reid1boys]

It just appears to me that Salmons has just went into the background. He has to remember that while he was one of the main guys, he was a damn good player. He needs to continue to have the same mental approach to the game he had a few weeks ago. Now he is just content to pass the ball off to someone else and watch. THAT will get him less and less minutes. He needs to stand up and say " HEY I AINT TAKING THIS CRAP!" I am going to force coach to play me by kicking butt while im in. He is doing the opposite, Saying " Damn, coach isnt getting me many minutes....... poor me."

 

[dude12]

Yeah, Allen Iverson is such a giant of a man and excellent role model.

As far as Salmons goes, what we're seeing is him trying to adjust - again - to a much reduced role after he put up incredible numbers while Artest was out. If you can HONESTLY tell me you'd be any different I'm afraid I'd have to challenge you over it. It's real easy for armchair NBA players to say stupid things like "he needs to grow a pair and go out there" blah, blah, blah.

There's ever reason for Salmons to be upset. After what I saw of Artest last night, I would much rather have Salmons out there than the guy who thinks he knows better than the head coach (and not for the first time) how to run the team.

You might not like Iverson but no one can question how hard he plays. If that is what he said about Salmons, then Salmons is making it fairly accurate.

How hard is it to play hard or be professional? Don't make excuses for him. He can be upset over this, but he needs to act like the professional that he is. For all the warts that Artest has, all he does is play hard. Does he try to do to much? Yes, he does at times. Has he evewr given less than full effort? Not that I've ever seen. If your going to rip on Artest then Salmons deserves the same crticism.

 

[venom_7]

It just appears to me that Salmons has just went into the background. He has to remember that while he was one of the main guys, he was a damn good player. He needs to continue to have the same mental approach to the game he had a few weeks ago. Now he is just content to pass the ball off to someone else and watch. THAT will get him less and less minutes. He needs to stand up and say " HEY I AINT TAKING THIS CRAP!" I am going to force coach to play me by kicking butt while im in. He is doing the opposite, Saying " Damn, coach isnt getting me many minutes....... poor me."

Good first post and welcome.

You stole my thunder you thief.

 

[dude12]

I am usually defending Salmons, But I agree with this post. We all ripped KT a new one for having the exact same attitude. Salmons has been given every opportunity to hold his minutes, way more than he would have from Adelman. If John wants to show that he is a valuable team player, he needs to be able to contribute consistantly off the bench and with limited minutes as well as a starter with lots of minutes. He will then be rewarded, IMO.

I agree....was thinking the same thing.

 

[VF21]

Kenny Thomas came here with a huge salary and every expectation that he was going to be the starting PF. John Salmons came here with neither. If you want to compare the two, feel free to do so but it's comparing apples and oranges.

But whatever. Nothing I say is going to change anyone's mind. I still object to people dogging on someone like Salmons who stepped up and did more than anyone thought him possible of when he was needed the most. That's ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than the Kenny Thomas scenario.