john salmons needs to go!

[itzcoatl]

Completely inexplicable. Was it a Maloof move? a Petrie move? Was Petrie intoxicated??? I didn't like a single move we made this summer (I'll give Hayes signing a pass, I guess).

 

[BMiller52]

I don't put too much stock in what some journalists say, but, that Salmons trade was ripped from coast to coast that same day, on just about every major sports site. Everyone aside from our FO new it wouldn't work out well.

Maybe no one knew how bad Hickson would be, even still a Hickson for Omri swap is basically a wash. However, many immediately questioned why we included a 1st rounder.

Your point doesn't really make sense. of course hindsight is 20/20, but when you do your homework you can severely cut down on risk. That doesn't only apply to sports either, obviously.

If I compare it to a real estate agent just as an example, and if that real estate agent makes a few pee poor investments which go belly up, sure you can sit there and say "well no real estate agent knows how the investment will work out beforehand". While that might be true, it has no basis in the reality of the way the world works. There would have smarter real estate agents from day one saying there's no way I make that investment, they saw it as a poor investment from the beginning, and because they did their homework they greatly cut down in the risk.

I don't see why fans continue to act like the NBA isn't a business, and accountability shouldn't be expected as it would in just about every other business environment in the world. Just because you're a fan of a team doesn't mean you can't also be honest with yourself when the team screws up. I'd actually say it's more a Sacramento thing than anything else though, as sports fans on the east coast and in Europe actually expect more from their front offices.

Agreed. The only offseason moves we made that weren't completely terrible(besides drafting IT at 60) were Jimmer and Chuck and even those 2 are debatable.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

And the trifecta is that the move down to draft Jimmer later means the Kings passed on two guys (Knight, Leonard) who have earned starting jobs in the NBA.

Leonard was selected at #15. The three players that the Kings lost the opportunity to draft by moving from #7 to #10 were Biyombo, Knight, and Walker. By all accounts we were not high on Biyombo, and preferred either Walker or Fredette to Knight. Maybe those pre-draft evaluations turn out to be wrong, but we had two "equivalent guys" in our draft range (Walker, Fredette) and we got one of them.

 

[Glenn]

The Maloofs can make up for last summer by getting a major league free agent this summer. They will have to pay money. They may even have to amnesty Salmons or someone else which to them will seem to be a waste of money. We all know what money means to them. Perhaps even a 2 for one trade using the likes of Thornton (I'd hate that) and JJ would get us an all star either as a SF or PF. The details make no difference as I think we have a problem, a good problem, in having the guard spot over populated at the moment.

Fortunately, and I really mean fortunately, if the arena is OK'd and ground starts to be broken, they have an opportunity to raise ticket prices by quite a bit as that is classically what happens when a new arena is built. The revenue sharing will help. It's up to the Maloofs as the team under any other ownership #1 would not be in the position it's in but #2 the screwups can be corrected.

I place our problems on the Maloofs as I think they have tied Petrie's hands and any future moves are up to them also. Sooo..... here we are. Doesn't make ya feel good does it?

Rainmaker got his head handed to him for complaining about the team's moves last summer. Well, now others are falling in line. This isn't "group think" that the trolls claim goes on around here but the gradual awakening of the masses.

Bottom line means Burkle, major trade, use of amnesty, and if we are lucky, finding a starter in the draft. The details aren't as important as what needs to be done. It is the over-all sweep of the moves that are the thrust of this note.

 

[Prince_XY]

I place our problems on the Maloofs as I think they have tied Petrie's hands and any future moves are up to them also. Sooo..... here we are. Doesn't make ya feel good does it?

Why put the blame on the Maloofs again?

Don't we have a GM in Petrie who should have guided/advised the Maloofs against doing these stupid moves in the first place? Let's face it and let us not make excuses for Petrie as if we are his relatives. Petrie messed-up big time. He has been lazy, passive, and has not done his homework for several years now.

 

[Bricklayer]

Why put the blame on the Maloofs again?

Don't we have a GM in Petrie who should have guided/advised the Maloofs against doing these stupid moves in the first place? Let's face it and let us not make excuses for Petrie as if we are his relatives. Petrie messed-up big time. He has been lazy, passive, and has not done his homework for several years now.

That's where the storyline breaks down. Petrie has been doing VERY well for the last few years. This offseason is the aberration. the largest mistake before this offseason might have been Kevin for Landry, but its not clear that thee were better offers there, and he then turned aorund and turned Landry into Thornton. Otherwise he turned Landry into Thronton, turned Hawes into Dalembert, drafted Reke and Cousins, and we were beginnging to look all set up for the future.

This past offseason stands on its own, not as part of a larger trend. If anythign it looked more like what was going on 4-5 years in the heart of the black years, then anything that has happened of late.

 

[pshn80]

That's where the storyline breaks down. Petrie has been doing VERY well for the last few years. This offseason is the aberration. the largest mistake before this offseason might have been Kevin for Landry, but its not clear that thee were better offers there, and he then turned aorund and turned Landry into Thornton. Otherwise he turned Landry into Thronton, turned Hawes into Dalembert, drafted Reke and Cousins, and we were beginnging to look all set up for the future.

This past offseason stands on its own, not as part of a larger trend. If anythign it looked more like what was going on 4-5 years in the heart of the black years, then anything that has happened of late.

Brick, I agree with your take on the Petrie track record. In addition, it could be that if Petrie couldn't have aquired any of the other SF options that we would have no one instead of Salmons. For my part it's just Petrie doing his job and this one didn't work out. Unfortunately they don't give warranties. Also I would say that "Salmons needs to be a bench player" not "Salmons needs to go". The rest is hindsight. Fun but I'd rather do something else.

 

[sdballer]

That's where the storyline breaks down. Petrie has been doing VERY well for the last few years. This offseason is the aberration. the largest mistake before this offseason might have been Kevin for Landry, but its not clear that thee were better offers there, and he then turned aorund and turned Landry into Thornton. Otherwise he turned Landry into Thronton, turned Hawes into Dalembert, drafted Reke and Cousins, and we were beginnging to look all set up for the future.

This past offseason stands on its own, not as part of a larger trend. If anythign it looked more like what was going on 4-5 years in the heart of the black years, then anything that has happened of late.

Agree and disagree. He made some very nice draft moves in Reke and Cousins and the Landry-Thornton move was good. Hawes into Dalembert would have been great if he kept Dally. Besides that, I have a hard time seeing what else we've done in the past 3-4 years that has been that great.

His major other moves the last 3 years or so:

Signing Travis Outlaw
Signing Chuck Hayes
Trading Omri and a 1st for Hickson
Trading Beno for Salmons
Drafting Jimmer, Honeycutt, Thomas
Signing Desmond Mason, Sean May, Ime Udoka, and Antoine Wright
Signing Beno to extension
Trading Artest for Greene and Casspi
Trading Miller and Salmons for a pupu platter
Giving Garcia the bigger extension

Not exactly terrific positioning for the rebuild. Especially when you compare it to the moves some other up and coming franchises made. We didn't bring in that much young talent. We didn't stockpile draft picks. We didn't bring in the right kinds of veterans. We didn't fill defensive needs. We didn't surround our young studs with the right complimentary pieces.

I don't believe the "rebuild" is over, but I don't think you can say this last offseason was the only problem in the last few years.

 

[Bricklayer]

Agree and disagree. He made some very nice draft moves in Reke and Cousins and the Landry-Thornton move was good. Hawes into Dalembert would have been great if he kept Dally. Besides that, I have a hard time seeing what else we've done in the past 3-4 years that has been that great.

His major other moves the last 3 years or so:

Signing Travis Outlaw
Signing Chuck Hayes
Trading Omri and a 1st for Hickson
Trading Beno for Salmons
Drafting Jimmer, Honeycutt, Thomas
Signing Desmond Mason, Sean May, Ime Udoka, and Antoine Wright
Signing Beno to extension
Trading Artest for Greene and Casspi
Trading Miller and Salmons for a pupu platter
Giving Garcia the bigger extension

Not exactly terrific positioning for the rebuild. Especially when you compare it to the moves some other up and coming franchises made. We didn't bring in that much young talent. We didn't stockpile draft picks. We didn't bring in the right kinds of veterans. We didn't fill defensive needs. We didn't surround our young studs with the right complimentary pieces.

I don't believe the "rebuild" is over, but I don't think you can say this last offseason was the only problem in the last few years.

You had to considerably cheat in both directions to put that list together.

Giving Cisco and Beno the extensions (Beno not so bad) was obviously part of those "dark years" moves before we really started to rebuild

Dumping Artest, Miller and Salmons were GOOD moves. That's classic rebuild stuff there. Clear the vets and their salaries. Finally. And hard to argue given what those guys are now and what they were beign paid then that any of them had much greater value. Just get them off the books and start over.

And then of course you listed all of the moves from this past summer, which we have already establsihed were poor.

However from the moment Petrie finally started to rebuild (could be Artest move, although I have this feeling he was silly enough to think Kevin would carry us, so definitely then the Miler/Salmons move), for the next two years its been great rebuilding stuff. Sacto fans can't see that. In part because they are fans. In part because they are Sacto fans and have never in 25 years seen a proper rebuild before. But in 2+ years Geoff cleared out most of our major contracts, to the point we had the lowest salary in the NBA, drafted two young stars, traded for a third weapon, and until he suddenly lost confidence in it and blew it this summer, had a couple of strong veteran roleplayers to help out as well. We had a good thing going though, and may still actually just because the biggest thing in any rebuild is getting those young stars. No matter how badly we may have ****ed up this summer, until and unless we lose those guys we will have a chance to get good at any point.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

if we didn't do anything except draft a sf like leonard, resign thornton n daly .. we'd be

cousins/daly/leonard/thornton/reke

JT/hassan/donte/casspi/beno/IT/honeycutt/cisco

we wouldn't have knee jerked and picked up salmons or outlaw.

 

[sdballer]

You had to considerably cheat in both directions to put that list together.

Giving Cisco and Beno the extensions (Beno not so bad) was obviously part of those "dark years" moves before we really started to rebuild

Dumping Artest, Miller and Salmons were GOOD moves. That's classic rebuild stuff there. Clear the vets and their salaries. Finally. And hard to argue given what those guys are now and what they were beign paid then that any of them had much greater value. Just get them off the books and start over.

And then of course you listed all of the moves from this past summer, which we have already establsihed were poor.

However from the moment Petrie finally started to rebuild (could be Artest move, although I have this feeling he was silly enough to think Kevin would carry us, so definitely then the Miler/Salmons move), for the next two years its been great rebuilding stuff. Sacto fans can't see that. In part because they are fans. In part because they are Sacto fans and have never in 25 years seen a proper rebuild before. But in 2+ years Geoff cleared out most of our major contracts, to the point we had the lowest salary in the NBA, drafted two young stars, traded for a third weapon, and until he suddenly lost confidence in it and blew it this summer, had a couple of strong veteran roleplayers to help out as well. We had a good thing going though, and may still actually just because the biggest thing in any rebuild is getting those young stars. No matter how badly we may have ****ed up this summer, until and unless we lose those guys we will have a chance to get good at any point.

Fair enough. You can cut out Beno and Garcia extensions from my point. All the others were part of this rebuild. And I understand how a rebuild works. I'm a fan of the entire NBA, not just the limited Sacramento viewpoint. Shedding salaries are a good thing if you bring back young talent, draft picks or use that cap space. You can't really compliment Petrie just for trading away guys that were still very serviceable back then and not doing those things. Unfortunately, it isn't enough to exclude anything from pre 2010 or late 2011 from the rebuild and claim that the 12-16 month period is enough to prove that Petrie approached this rebuild the right way. They were a great start but not enough.

You have $59 Million tied up annually for the next 3-4 years with Hayes, Salmons, and Outlaw. Artest, Miller and Udrih are owed $33M. Geoff basically gave away those vets with nothing to show for but an extra $26M in bad salaries. So, when the only moves besides drafting extremely well in 2 drafts are to clear space that then got more than tied up in these guys, I think its hard to argue that the rebuild was successful.

 

[Glenn]

It's also hard to argue that the rebuild is over. Nit picking must be fun to the serious debater.

 

[pshn80]

lLet's give credit where credit is due. Smart decided Salmons starting had a better alternative and he had him come off the bench. Not a bad move. Does Salmons have to go? No. Should we get some better talent. Yes. Petrie and Smart will probably work on that but never fast enough for us on kingsfans.com.

 

[sdballer]

It's also hard to argue that the rebuild is over. Nit picking must be fun to the serious debater.

I wasn't sure if that was directed at me but I'll respond. I don't think the rebuild is over but I do think that the team made as many if not more moves that set the rebuild back as they did to move it forward. They did the best thing by drafting two potential young studs but the rest of the moves could have and should have been handled differently. Not impossible to course correct when you have the two youngsters but they made things far far tougher than needed.

 

[upinsmoke]

I do think that the team made as many if not more moves that set the rebuild back as they did to move it forward. They did the best thing by drafting two potential young studs but the rest of the moves could have and should have been handled differently. Not impossible to course correct when you have the two youngsters but they made things far far tougher than needed.

Yes sir. For one the rebuild started way late and last years draft day was horrendous. Correct move would have been to draft a SF and sign young undrafted/international/D-league players to 1 year deals because they would have worked their tails off for you.

 

[bajaden]

My two cents: I think we can all agree that this last offseason was less than impressive. And since none of us were flies on the wall when the powers that be were making their decisions, any judgement we make is purely speculative. From what I've read, Westphal pushed hard for Salmons. Don't know why, maybe he was just desperate for a defensive SF that could hit an open shot, and Salmons was being offered. So maybe Petrie, trying to make sure that Westphal, who apparently he liked personally, had as many tools to succeed as possible, and went ahead and made the trade. If it had worked out, non of us would be talking about it. Personaly, at the time, I wasn't thrilled with the deal. Who do I blame? Petrie, and I don't care what his intentions were at the time. I only care about results.

I can't ***** too much about the Hickson trade. To my mind, we were trading an unproven player for another unproven player. So from that prospective, it was a wash. What I didn't agree with was throwing in a first round draft pick. But since it was protected, I could live with it. In retrospect, I'm not sure that if we reversed the deal, the team would be any better. But the main point is, the deal didn't make us any better, but it did force Thompson into the starting PF position, and maybe thats the best thing to come out of the deal.

There's still a lot that can and needs to be done, and the Kings once again will have money under the cap to play with. To my mind, this is make or break for Petrie. Its time to put some finishing pieces in place. My patience is starting to run out, and I'm the one that preaches patience. To my mind, from an idealistic point of view, every player on the roster should serve some purpose, either in the now, or in the future. Any player that doesn't, should be browsing in another pasture.

Hopefully, the beginning of the end of the rebuild will start before the trade deadline.

 

[pshn80]

Rebuilds are never over but the degree of need is always different and we would seem to need at least one big addition. I don't know what to look forward to - what kind of a deal for what position or positions. It may be as small as the fairy god mother tapping her wand on Honeycutt's head - long shot, I know. The other factor we need even after the big move is increased maturity and experience which we are getting every day and always need more.

 

[Kingster]

My two cents: I think we can all agree that this last offseason was less than impressive. And since none of us were flies on the wall when the powers that be were making their decisions, any judgement we make is purely speculative. From what I've read, Westphal pushed hard for Salmons. Don't know why, maybe he was just desperate for a defensive SF that could hit an open shot, and Salmons was being offered. So maybe Petrie, trying to make sure that Westphal, who apparently he liked personally, had as many tools to succeed as possible, and went ahead and made the trade. If it had worked out, non of us would be talking about it. Personaly, at the time, I wasn't thrilled with the deal. Who do I blame? Petrie, and I don't care what his intentions were at the time. I only care about results.

I can't ***** too much about the Hickson trade. To my mind, we were trading an unproven player for another unproven player. So from that prospective, it was a wash. What I didn't agree with was throwing in a first round draft pick. But since it was protected, I could live with it. In retrospect, I'm not sure that if we reversed the deal, the team would be any better. But the main point is, the deal didn't make us any better, but it did force Thompson into the starting PF position, and maybe thats the best thing to come out of the deal.

There's still a lot that can and needs to be done, and the Kings once again will have money under the cap to play with. To my mind, this is make or break for Petrie. Its time to put some finishing pieces in place. My patience is starting to run out, and I'm the one that preaches patience. To my mind, from an idealistic point of view, every player on the roster should serve some purpose, either in the now, or in the future. Any player that doesn't, should be browsing in another pasture.

Hopefully, the beginning of the end of the rebuild will start before the trade deadline.

I agree. He must clean up the mess he's made, and then he must make moves to improve this team. He's also must be more involved in influencing the off-season workout programs of players, especially Tyreke.