Jerry Reynolds

[Bricklayer]

Whatever stock Mr. Petrie wants.

We were a gnat's hair away from being in the championship.
We almost beat a team with Shaq and Kobe, two of the greatest players to ever play, in their Prime.

Geoffs other championship contending team the Blazers lost to Michael Jordan and the Bulls in 1992 and Isiah Thomas and the Bad Boy Pistons in 1990.

He is one of the best GMs in the biz and has the track record to prove it.

Hardly: do you know which pieces Geoff contributed to thoise Blazers teams? None.

Its a common enough mistake, but so far as can be told Geoff did NOT build those Blazers teams. He took over as GM in 1990, the year AFTER they had already gone to the NBA Finals. The entire starting 5 was in place -- Porter, Drexler, Kersey, Willimans and Duckworth. The bench included Cliff Robinson and Drazen Petrovic. Geoff resigned under heavy pressure 4 years later precisely because he was accused of not doing anything but sitting on his *** and treading water. I think he might have acquired Danny Ainge, and later Rod Strickland.

As one of my new little factoids: he's also never GM'd a +.500 team without Rick Adelman there to bail him...er...I mean coach for him. He's been an exect for 18 years, he has zero titles. He built ONE good team in that time, and 90% of that building was done in a single offseason which he seems to have somehow magically forgotten (given that he utterly violates every principle (cap space, draft, youth) that he embraced at that time). He has been nothing but subpar ever since the Maloofs closed up the pcoketbooks and took away his advantage (Geoff's great success coming first under one of the world's richest men in Paul Allen (who bought the Blazers in 1988) and then under the freespending early years of the Maloofs.

He's done it once, which is one time more than many execs. But this extreme deference to the man as a consistent king builder is considerably misplaced.



And as for the draft -- last week in another thread I went to some trouble to put together a table showing just how critical getting a high pick is. Not because the draft is magic, but because the draft is by far the most likely means of acquiring an overwhelming talent, wihtout which your chances of winning it all are slim, and would be said to be none were it not for the Pistons freak occurrence. The question isn't how many high picks DON'T win a title -- there is only 1 champion a year, and not enough rings to go around. The question is how many teams win a title WITHOUT one of those guys. The answer BTW is absolutely zero. Even the Pistons were loaded with ultra-high picks who simply blossomed late. Adn unless you are the Lakers, and can buy a megastar like Shaq with fame and star power, you get your guy in the draft. you get him if he's Duncan, Wade, Kobe for that matter, Jordan (and Pippen), Hakeem, Zeke, Bird, Magic...THIS IS HOW ITS DONE.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

I think what Kings fans also have to remember is the year we almost won it all we had the #1 pick of the '93 Draft (Webber) and the #2 pick of the '98 draft (Bibby). Every finals team had had a top 3 pick on it since forever. Even the finals loser have had top 3 picks - Cavs-Lebron, Sixers-Iverson, Nets-Kidd,Martin, Dallas - Stackhouse, Van Horn(Doesn't really count), Pacers - Rik Smits.

So if we want to make to the finals someday we are going to need another top 3 pick.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think what Kings fans also have to remember is the year we almost won it all we had the #1 pick of the '93 Draft (Webber) and the #2 pick of the '98 draft (Bibby). Every finals team had had a top 3 pick on it since forever. Even the finals loser have had top 3 picks - Cavs-Lebron, Sixers-Iverson, Nets-Kidd,Martin, Dallas - Stackhouse, Van Horn(Doesn't really count), Pacers - Rik Smits.

So if we want to make to the finals someday we are going to need another top 3 pick.

We got one...Reef.

 

[dude12]

Hardly: do you know which pieces Geoff contributed to thoise Blazers teams? None.

Its a common enough mistake, but so far as can be told Geoff did NOT build those Blazers teams. He took over as GM in 1990, the year AFTER they had already gone to the NBA Finals. The entire starting 5 was in place -- Porter, Drexler, Kersey, Willimans and Duckworth. The bench included Cliff Robinson and Drazen Petrovic. Geoff resigned under heavy pressure 4 years later precisely because he was accused of not doing anything but sitting on his *** and treading water. I think he might have acquired Danny Ainge, and later Rod Strickland.

As one of my new little factoids: he's also never GM'd a +.500 team without Rick Adelman there to bail him...er...I mean coach for him. He's been an exect for 18 years, he has zero titles. He built ONE good team in that time, and 90% of that building was done in a single offseason which he seems to have somehow magically forgotten (given that he utterly violates every principle (cap space, draft, youth) that he embraced at that time). He has been nothing but subpar ever since the Maloofs closed up the pcoketbooks and took away his advantage (Geoff's great success coming first under one of the world's richest men in Paul Allen (who bought the Blazers in 1988) and then under the freespending early years of the Maloofs.



And as for the draft -- last week in another thread I went to some trouble to put together a table showing just how critical getting a high pick is. Not because the draft is magic, but because the draft is by far the most likely means of acquiring an overwhelming talent, wihtout which your chances of winning it all are slim, and would be said to be none were it not for the Pistons freak occurrence. The question isn't how many high picks DON'T win a title -- there is only 1 champion a year, and not enough rings to go around. The question is how many teams win a title WITHOUT one of those guys. The answer BTW is absolutely zero. Even the Pistons were loaded with ultra-high picks who simply blossomed late. Adn unless you are the Lakers, and can buy a megastar like Shaq with fame and star power, you get your guy in the draft. you get him if he's Duncan, Wade, Kobe for that matter, Jordan (and Pippen), Hakeem, Zeke, Bird, Magic...THIS IS HOW ITS DONE.

Hard to believe but its not the only way its done. So Petrie hires Adelman as his coach.....your spin is to say Adelman bails him out....this witch hunt on Petrie is tiresome. A team like the Pistons win and its a freak occurence, Petrie builds a great Kings team and he got lucky because "players fell into his lap", the only reason he had success is because he had mega-money to use, etc.....it's always some freaky lucky coincidence.

I haven't studied the Petrie/Blazers regime but if what your saying is true that he inherited a championship team, well, maybe the pieces were already in place and the smart thing was to not make a major move.

 

[Glenn]

We got one...Reef.

Absolutely. We've got it made now.

 

[ZZE916]

Absolutely. We've got it made now.

If he doesn't come back healthy we are doomed.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

This is not in defense of Mr. Reynolds, or his comments. I for one don't pay much attention to them. He is after all, just a color commentator. You should listen to some of the other one's around the league as I'm forced to do because I live in baja and can't get the Kings broadcast all the time. However, I don't ever remember Jerry trading for anyone. He did not draft Duane Causwell or trade for Mr. Schintzius. He's never been the GM. How much influence he may or may not have had is up for debate, but you can't blame him for the stupidity of the general manager. So I don't think he has to explain anything to you in that regard.

I had the chance to talk to Jerry one night when he was the quest on sports talk years ago and it was being held at the sports bar in fair oaks. He confided to myself and the others at the table that he thought the trade for Derek Smith was a terrible one as was the one for Sampson. He said that Causwell had the worst hand eye coordination he had ever seen. So I don't think he was a big fan of Causwells. If you want to comment on what he says, so be it. But get your facts straight.

I don't want to get too confrontational, but Jerry actually did do all the drafting and trading the previous 4 seasons, he was Director of Player Personnel from the time that we fired Bill Russell in 1989 and when we hired Geoff Petrie in 1993. He was making all the basketball decisions during those years...as we didnt have a GM making those decisions back then.


edit: oh, and notice I didnt mention the Smith trade or Sampson debacle...he wasnt making the basketball decisions then, Joe Axelson made the Smith trade, and Bill Russell made the Sampson trade.

 

[Lexluthor400]

I wish we both Jerry and Grant would get fired i am tired of hearing their voices. I have to mute the tv and listen to am radio i CANT STAND them.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

We've had lottery picks such as Pervis Ellison, Joe Kleine, Bobby Hurley and Corliss Williamson. How far did they get us?

How about some of the other guys Reynolds drafted...4 in one year, too....Causewell, Simmons, Mays, Bonner, Chilcutt, Owens(well, this one was a no brainer at the time, even though it was a pretty hairy situation, it DID turn out to land us one Mitch Richmond) But the others...wow...

 

[Glenn]

As one of my new little factoids: he's also never GM'd a +.500 team without Rick Adelman there to bail him...er...I mean coach for him. He's been an exect for 18 years, he has zero titles.

Wonderful factoid.

People were down on Adelman when he was here because he had a blah personality. I think it is dangerous to try to pick out who added what when it comes to Adelman and Petrie but I think it it clear, at least to me, that Adelman had a certain genius in bringing out the best in the players dumped into his lap. Some people thought he let the players push him around but I say "no" to that. He took what he was given and created an offense and a style that maximized his players' skills.

I will never forget the devestating combo of Webber and Vlade at the high post directing traffic with their incredible passing skills. Would another coach have done this?

Maybe Petrie has been riding the coat tails of Adelman and if that is so, it doubles my anger at the Maloofs for letting their petty squabbles ruin a good thing.

I lay the present state of the Kings directly at the feet of the Maloofs.

___


But I digress from the thread. Sorry.

 

[swisshh]

Reynolds taught Isiah Thomas everything he knows.

 

[Kingster]

And as for the draft -- last week in another thread I went to some trouble to put together a table showing just how critical getting a high pick is. Not because the draft is magic, but because the draft is by far the most likely means of acquiring an overwhelming talent, wihtout which your chances of winning it all are slim, and would be said to be none were it not for the Pistons freak occurrence. The question isn't how many high picks DON'T win a title -- there is only 1 champion a year, and not enough rings to go around. The question is how many teams win a title WITHOUT one of those guys. The answer BTW is absolutely zero. Even the Pistons were loaded with ultra-high picks who simply blossomed late. Adn unless you are the Lakers, and can buy a megastar like Shaq with fame and star power, you get your guy in the draft. you get him if he's Duncan, Wade, Kobe for that matter, Jordan (and Pippen), Hakeem, Zeke, Bird, Magic...THIS IS HOW ITS DONE.

Brick, you need to have a file on this with all your posts on this subject. Maybe you can entitle it, "Bricks' Draft Tutorial." Then when you respond to the anti-draft theme, just reference it. No more words are necessary. Thanks.

 

[Glenn]

What I really don't understand is how there is even an argument against this line of reasoning. Reasonable people can differ, but I've never seen a reasonable argument that comes close to countering yours. So why is that we keep hearing this anti-draft propaganda? Is building through the draft such anathema that people can't stand the thought?

Maybe I am not understanding what you mean by "building through the draft." It only makes sense as once we get the top three pick and assuming he produces as all statistics show he should, we will get no more shots at a high pick. It's a one draft shot at rebuilding. It would be one great player in a league that seems to require three great players to compete at a high level. Where do the others come from?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Building through the draft generally means either:

1) drafting your franchise player that you build the rest of your team around, or
2) Using your draft pick as a tradeable asset to acquire a franchise player (e.g, #3 draft pick for Mitch Richmond)

and

3) Drafting two or three complimentary players through the draft.

It does not mean "try to draft the whole entire core of a championship team." Additionally, your "if the guy is as good as the hype, we'll only have good draft position once" paradigm is flawed: not even LeBron James got the Cavaliers out of the lottery in one year.

 

[Glenn]

Additionally, your "if the guy is as good as the hype, we'll only have good draft position once" paradigm is flawed: not even LeBron James got the Cavaliers out of the lottery in one year.

I never said that one pick would get us out of the lottery. I don't consider a number 10-13 pick a very good pick and apparently you do.

Cleveland's pick in the next year after James was Luke Jackson.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I never said that one pick would get us out of the lottery. I don't consider a number 10-13 pick a very good pick and apparently you do.

I didn't say that the #10 pick is a "very good" pick, per se, but you shouldn't be looking for a star with the #10 pick, you should be looking for someone that can compliment your star.

Cleveland had a chance to do that... and they passed on Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, Andris Biedrins, JR Smith, Jameer Nelson and Kevin Martin to take Luke Jackson; that falls at the feet of Jim Paxson. I guarantee you that if they had taken one of those other guys instead, not only would they have improved at a faster rate, but they would have been more competitive against the Spurs in the Finals.

 

[AyeCarly]

Hardly: do you know which pieces Geoff contributed to thoise Blazers teams? None.

http://www.nba.com/blazers/history/Learn_More_About_Geoff_Petrie-64034-41.html

"After a time in private business, Petrie rejoined the Trail Blazers taking on various front office roles before beginning in 1989 a five-year tenure as the team’s senior vice president for basketball operations. In that position, he was instrumental in building the Blazers’ title contenders of the early 1990s. He now is completing his eighth season as president of basketball operations for the Sacramento Kings where he has twice been named NBA Executive of the Year."

He wasn't GM until '89-'90, but he was instrumental according to the NBAs website.


Yes, it takes high draft picks to win, but the NBA legends you listed come once every blue moon.

From '86 to '94 we didn't win more than 29 games per season. That's 9 years that we sucked.
During that 9 years did we ever draft anyone worth a darn?

Since 1974 there have been 8 expansion teams the
Jazz, Mavericks, Hornets, Heat, Timberwolves, Magic, Grizzlies and Raptors.
You would think these teams had the best chances to draft the superstars.

Well, in 33 years how many NBA legend-type players have these teams drafted?
Four - Karl Malone, John Stockton, Shaq and KG.
And only one has won a title so far.

Of course the draft is the answer, every superstar player is drafted.
But pegging our hopes in the draft is a longshot.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

We got one...Reef.

My bad, I forgot about the other half of our Grizzly twosome.

Looking back at our own draft history, we did have the bad luck to get the #1 pick in a bad year with Pervis Ellison. Kind of Like Toronto with Bargnani. However, are own ineptitude (Joe Klein vs. Karl Malone, Bobby Hurley vs. pre-Alchoholic Vin Baker) Or being 1 or 2 draft places away from a great player (Tariq vs. Tracey McGrady, Kenny Smith vs. Scottie Pippen) is not an indication that the draft is not the easiest way to get back into contention.

Lastly, the problem with blaming the Maloofs for the current situation is they are not the ones with the responsibility for making personnel decisions. They just sign the checks. Petrie had to sign off on Firing Adelman, Hiring Muss, Trading Webber. Even if Petrie did not like doing any of those things, he is still collecting a paycheck for being ultimately responsible for the product on the floor. And its a pretty substantial paycheck at that.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

He wasn't GM until '89-'90, but he was instrumental according to the NBAs website.

Was that sarcasm? Because given that even NBA.com concedes that he didn't become Portland's GM until 1989-90, I would consider it highly dubious that he was, in fact, "instrumental." Portland already had the team that went to the Finals twice when he took charge.

From '86 to '94 we didn't win more than 29 games per season. That's 9 years that we sucked.
During that 9 years did we ever draft anyone worth a darn?

That's the GM's fault... or, alternatively, the "director of player personnel's" fault. Surely you're not trying to make the case that, in all that time, we always got the best player available?

Since 1974 there have been 8 expansion teams the
Jazz, Mavericks, Hornets, Heat, Timberwolves, Magic, Grizzlies and Raptors.
You would think these teams had the best chances to draft the superstars.

Well, in 33 years how many NBA legend-type players have these teams drafted?
Four - Karl Malone, John Stockton, Shaq and KG.
And only one has won a title so far.

It may, perhaps, be too early to call, but I have a strong feeling that Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Dwight Howard are going to prove you very, very wrong. And, for that matter, depending on your definition of "legend," I wouldn't discount Vince Carter, either; is Carter any less of a legend than Adrian Dantley?

 

[AyeCarly]

That's the GM's fault... or, alternatively, the "director of player personnel's" fault. Surely you're not trying to make the case that, in all that time, we always got the best player available?

It may, perhaps, be too early to call, but I have a strong feeling that Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Dwight Howard are going to prove you very, very wrong. And, for that matter, depending on your definition of "legend," I wouldn't discount Vince Carter, either; is Carter any less of a legend than Adrian Dantley?

I'm just saying in that 9 years we sucked there should have been at least one player that we drafted that we could have built around and turned it around sooner. But it didn't happen. All the "pro-lottery" folks say this should be our plan. But we were in that situation, for 9 years, and things didn't turn around. And it didn't until we got Mitch Richmond, resigned him and eventually traded him for Webber. Drafting high hasn't helped this team yet.

Vince isn't in the league of players that Bricklayer first alluded to earlier, nor is Dantley. Great players both but they are not these guys http://www.nba.com/history/players/50greatest.html

As far as those young guys with exception to Wade who has already won a title riding Shaqs coattails, the odds of them winning are still slim. History shows these small market teams (that they are all on), have little chance of winning it all.

 

[Smills91]

I didn't say that the #10 pick is a "very good" pick, per se, but you shouldn't be looking for a star with the #10 pick, you should be looking for someone that can compliment your star.

Cleveland had a chance to do that... and they passed on Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, Andris Biedrins, JR Smith, Jameer Nelson and Kevin Martin to take Luke Jackson; that falls at the feet of Jim Paxson. I guarantee you that if they had taken one of those other guys instead, not only would they have improved at a faster rate, but they would have been more competitive against the Spurs in the Finals.

This is an excellent point on why Petrie is a very, VERY good GM. How many deadhead's could draft LeBron with the #1 pick, that's pure dumb luck...but how many GM's pull players like Martin, Garcia, Peja, Turkoglu, Wallace etc from picks outside the lottery. The # of those GM's is few and far between. The fact of the matter is, Petrie has really had TWO mid to late lottery picks. ANYONE can take the best player in an incredible draft and look great. It takes REAL talent to pull the diamonds from the rough that Petrie so frequently does.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm just saying in that 9 years we sucked there should have been at least one player that we drafted that we could have built around and turned it around sooner.

And that's at the feet of the people making the picks; it certainly isn't any sort of evidence that the draft doesn't work. If anything, it's evidence that Garry St. Jean and Jerry Reynolds know little to nothing about basketball.

As far as those young guys with exception to Wade who has already won a title riding Shaqs coattails, the odds of them winning are still slim. History shows these small market teams (that they are all on), have little chance of winning it all.

Riding on O'Neal's coattails... right. That's why O'Neal was the Finals MVP that year...

Oh, wait...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

This is an excellent point on why Petrie is a very, VERY good GM. How many deadhead's could draft LeBron with the #1 pick, that's pure dumb luck...but how many GM's pull players like Martin, Garcia, Peja, Turkoglu, Wallace etc from picks outside the lottery.

Just because you can draft well doesn't make you a very good GM; Isaiah Thomas has a pretty good eye for talent in the draft, too...

 

[Bricklayer]

From '86 to '94 we didn't win more than 29 games per season. That's 9 years that we sucked.
During that 9 years did we ever draft anyone worth a darn?

This argument is a strawman whenever its raised -- there IS no strategy to ever get good if you assume incompetence. None. Trades, free agency, draft, does not matter. If you are incompetent, they are all going to crash and burn. However if you are even marginally competent then the draft has furnished the cornerstone superstar for virtually every modern championship team. Not because its special, but because once a team gets a championship caliber cornerstone superstar, they don't let him go.

As fro '86 to '94, well first of all realize that we rarely got ourselves into the TOP position that throws superstars in your path. Instead we year after year managed to get the #6 or #7 pick, just after the main wash of true studs was gone. The two times we did get an elite pick, it was an even split: a #1 pick in a freakishly bad draft, that turned into Pervis Ellison (BAD), and then a #3 pick that ala the #5 that Boston traded to Seattle for Allen, brought back a near superstar level SG to be our franchise cornerstone (Mitch Richmond) (GOOD).

From '86 to '94 this is who we drafted, who we COULD have drafted instead at those spots, and more importantly, who the team draftig at #1 COULD have drafted every year (since the argument is we were dumb back then too and stupidly avoided the top picks we needed):

'86 Drafted: #17 Harold Pressley
'86 Could have drafted: Arvydas Sabonis, Mark Price, Dennis Rodman, Nate McMillan, Kevin Duckworth, Jeff Hornacek
'86 If you Drafted #1: Brad Daugherty

'87 Drafted: #6 Kenny Smith
'87 Could have drafted: Kevin Johnson, Horace Grant, Reggie Miller, Mark Jackson, Reggie Lewis
'87 If you Drafted #1: David Robinson

'88 Drafted: #18 Ricky Berry (note we traded down to an indifferent draft position not worthy of our suck)
'88 Could Have Drafted: Rod Strickland
'88 If you Drafted #1: Mitch Richmond

'89 Drafted: #1 Pervis Ellison
'89 Could Have Drafted: Sean Elliot, Glen Rice, Tim Hardaway, Sean Kemp, Vlade Divac
'89 If you Drafted #1: Tim Hardaway

'90 Drafted: #7 Lionel Simmons, #14 Travis Mays, #18 Duane Causewell, #23 Anthony Bonner
'90 Could Have Drafted: Toni Kukoc, Cedric Ceballos, Jayson Williams, Elden Campbell, Antonio Davis, Tyrone Hill, Loy Vaught
'90 If you Drafted #1: Gary Payton

'91 Drafted: #3 Billy Ownes (for Golden State) --> Mitch Richmond
'91 Could Have Drafted: Mitch was the best possible outcome, but: Ditkembe Mutumbo, Steve Smith, Terrel Brandon
'91 If you Drafted #1: Ditkembe Mutumbo

'92 Drafted: #7 Walt Williams
'92 could Have Drafted: Latrell Sprewell
'92 If you Drafted #1: Shaquille O'Neal

'93 Drafted: #7 Bobby Hurley
'93 Could Have Drafted: Vin Baker, Allan Houston, Sam Cassel, Nick Van Exel
'93 If you Drafted #1: Chris Webber

'94 Drafted: #8 Brian Grant
'94 Could Have drafted: Eddie Jones, Jalen Rose
'94 If you Drafted #1: Jason Kidd

Even with us being stupid, we had an almost annual OPPORTUNITY to draft a future All-Star. If we had gotten #1 in those years almost every year we would have had a chance to draft a superstar. The fact that we are incompetent is proof of nothing but our incompetence. At the top end of the draft you have a chance to turn around your franchise, almost every year. You may fail to do so, but the chance is there, and nobody cna take it from you. No free agent can choose to sign elsewhere, no team can refuse your trade proposal. Your fate is in your own hands. And the opportunity is right there. Was right there for us. Will be right there for whoever is picking at #1 next year.

 

[Smills91]

Just because you can draft well doesn't make you a very good GM; Isaiah Thomas has a pretty good eye for talent in the draft, too...

I think his track record in trades speaks for itself and his ability to sign free agents as well.

Petrie is conservative. He bats for singles and doubles. Only once has he hit a homerun(Mitch for C-Webb).

But the accumulation of talent and then being able to turn that into talent is always a good thing.

The guy has signed players like Bobby Jackson, Vlade Divac, Scot Pollard, Tony Delk, Vernon Maxwell, Jon Barry, John Salmons, SAR, etc who've been either perfect fits for the team at the time they played OR been great contractual signings for the caliber of player they are.

He's traded Corliss for DC, Mitch for C-Webb, J-Will for Bibby, Pejina for Ron, Pollard/Hedo for Brad(who was integral until C-Webb's knee fell apart).

Petrie continually made the overwhelming correct move year in year out, with a handful of mulligans like Tariq, Nick Anderson, Mikki Moore.

The C-Webb knee injury was more detrimental to this franchise than even the Ricky Barry suicide. It's set us back for years.

When a team loses it's star player like that, it decreases the value's of the players around them. Since he had to spend what he did at that time on the free market players like Brad/Bibby look overpaid today. He got what he could for C-Webb and at the time, Kenny looked like a solid/adequate replacement.

I think Petrie done the best that could possibly be done given the circumstances of the roster, dynamics of the team and most importantly, the ATTITUDES of the Maloofs during all these events.

Petrie's biggest strength IMO is being able to make GOOD trades. Second is his ability to eye talent either through the draft of free agency, third is signing the right guys to contracts to fit the team. He's always been good at adding that critical piece to the roster that looks insignifcant at first, but pays dividends as the season progresses, i.e. Pollard, Jackson, Udrih, etc etc etc.

I swear people here want to crucify him because he's not a prophet and a seer, and could not see Webber's knee crumbling, Peja waning, Bibby's thumb falling off or SAR's knee aggravating him.

Injuries happen, you can not predict them and they can bite anyone at anytime. Petrie's made the correct move 90% of the time at the time is was made. Having full knowledge using 20/20 hindsight is a pathetic attempt by most on here to bicker and moan like a spoiled little brat who didn't get the exact toy they wanted for Christmas.

 

[VF21]

Two points jump out off the page at me:

The C-Webb knee injury was more detrimental to this franchise than even the Ricky Barry suicide. It's set us back for years...

...I think Petrie done the best that could possibly be done given the circumstances of the roster, dynamics of the team and most importantly, the ATTITUDES of the Maloofs during all these events.

I agree completely.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... The C-Webb knee injury was more detrimental to this franchise than even the Ricky Barry suicide. It's set us back for years.

When a team loses it's star player like that, it decreases the value's of the players around them. Since he had to spend what he did at that time on the free market players like Brad/Bibby look overpaid today. He got what he could for C-Webb and at the time, Kenny looked like a solid/adequate replacement.

I think Petrie done the best that could possibly be done given the circumstances of the roster, dynamics of the team and most importantly, the ATTITUDES of the Maloofs during all these events...

And this is where you and I differ: I am 180 degrees in the opposite direction of this belief. If I thought as you did, I might not have a problem with Petrie, and might still pray to the altar as you do. But I don't. And I don't.

 

[VF21]

It's not a matter of praying to an altar. It's simply a matter of believing that Petrie isn't the total incompetent some like to paint him.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

It's not a matter of praying to an altar. It's simply a matter of believing that Petrie isn't the total incompetent some like to paint him.

I tell you what: I'll bet you dollars to donuts that there are WAY more people on this board critical of Petrie that are willing to admit that he's done some good than there are people whom are not critical of Petrie who are willing to admit he's screwed up as well.

 

[VF21]

That makes no sense to me whatsoever S£im.

I'll admit Petrie has made some mistakes. That's not the point. The point is that a few around here act as though he's done nothing right, that every good move he made was either luck or so long ago that it doesn't matter, etc.

I'd like to know the name of even ONE general manager in the NBA who hasn't screwed up on occasion. Hindsight is 20/20. And it's real easy to sit in judgment on someone, especially when you don't have all the facts available. We don't know what deals he may have worked on that didn't come to fruition.

I'm not willing to throw him under the bus quite yet.