Jason Ross on "loser mentality"

#31
I agree that the players aren't losing on purpose. But if fans can see that an organization is tanking then you can be sure players can too. I don't think the players are oblivious to the tanking strategy, and I'm sure there are some who are bothered by the idea that guys who could help them win are sitting on the sideline so the team has a better statistical chance at drafting a rookie who might replace them. It's a fine line to walk.
It is and I should also say that tanking is lame and I hate it. I'm glad the rules are changing. But for this year, it is still necessary and a fact of life.
 
#32
Does anyone disagree that we need a top 3 pick this year, and badly?

We are not even mired in mediocrity, we are mired in crap. Our most wins in a season in the last decade was 38, and that was 10 years ago. We have no major draft asset for 2019 and we have only 3-4 rotational players on our current roster for any top half team in the league.

Fox could be a top 10 PG, outside shot of being an All Star, but I highly doubt that.
WCS is a starter on a bad team or a top 4 big on a good team
Buddy is at best a 6th man
Bogi is legit, but I don't think his ceiling is much higher than what we are currently seeing
Giles is a giant unknown.
Mason is a good 5th guard
Skal has regressed, as much as we all saw the flashes it's still not a sure thing he is a rotational player, let alone a starter in this league.
Justin Jackson is not touching the court on 1/2 the teams in this league, although I think he could be a good 8-10th player on a playoff team

I'm not going to comment on the veterans because they are all but gone after this year, and if they are not, they should be.


We HAVE to land a top talent and it has to hit. We cannot have another Never Nervous Pervis type draft or this discussion will go on into 2028. It sucks, but it is reality. Philadelphia is a big market team and they new they were not getting any star players to sign there. Hell, they had to pay JJ freaking Reddick $23MM to play for them. We over paid Hill, Zbo and VC compared to what the market was dictating to get 50% (or worse) of the players they used to be.
 
#33
I think Jason is steeped in reading the company line. It's either win enough to be a playoff team allowing for more games and additional income-or tank-pure and simple. For example, when Cousins, Rudy, Rondo, on team and the decision was made we were no longer in the playoff hunt...low and behold, one or more of these players would sit out-the reason given-for rest. Now obviously, if we were in a really trying to win as many games as possible, then all of these players would have been available. Jason avoids the reality of the situation. Grant does too and tries to make it plausible to the Kings followers. After all, who wants to pay an already high ticket price to a game for a team that might very well lose because they are not putting their best foot forward by resting players that don't need the rest. However, this is how the system works and big money is at stake. So the Kings, massage the truth, by putting on a public face saying that they are really trying to win all games. But look at the facts.
 
#34
Does anyone disagree that we need a top 3 pick this year, and badly?

We are not even mired in mediocrity, we are mired in crap. Our most wins in a season in the last decade was 38, and that was 10 years ago. We have no major draft asset for 2019 and we have only 3-4 rotational players on our current roster for any top half team in the league.

Fox could be a top 10 PG, outside shot of being an All Star, but I highly doubt that.
WCS is a starter on a bad team or a top 4 big on a good team
Buddy is at best a 6th man
Bogi is legit, but I don't think his ceiling is much higher than what we are currently seeing
Giles is a giant unknown.
Mason is a good 5th guard
Skal has regressed, as much as we all saw the flashes it's still not a sure thing he is a rotational player, let alone a starter in this league.
Justin Jackson is not touching the court on 1/2 the teams in this league, although I think he could be a good 8-10th player on a playoff team

I'm not going to comment on the veterans because they are all but gone after this year, and if they are not, they should be.


We HAVE to land a top talent and it has to hit. We cannot have another Never Nervous Pervis type draft or this discussion will go on into 2028. It sucks, but it is reality. Philadelphia is a big market team and they new they were not getting any star players to sign there. Hell, they had to pay JJ freaking Reddick $23MM to play for them. We over paid Hill, Zbo and VC compared to what the market was dictating to get 50% (or worse) of the players they used to be.
This seems like a lot of hyperbole to support your opinions. You've damned the Kings for a decade if they don't land a top talent this summer. Can they not make trades, sign free agents or draft good players in the 9 drafts/off-seasons between now and then to improve the team?

I still think Vince Carter was a great signing.
 
#35
Does anyone disagree that we need a top 3 pick this year, and badly?

We are not even mired in mediocrity, we are mired in crap. Our most wins in a season in the last decade was 38, and that was 10 years ago. We have no major draft asset for 2019 and we have only 3-4 rotational players on our current roster for any top half team in the league.

Fox could be a top 10 PG, outside shot of being an All Star, but I highly doubt that.
WCS is a starter on a bad team or a top 4 big on a good team
Buddy is at best a 6th man
Bogi is legit, but I don't think his ceiling is much higher than what we are currently seeing
Giles is a giant unknown.
Mason is a good 5th guard
Skal has regressed, as much as we all saw the flashes it's still not a sure thing he is a rotational player, let alone a starter in this league.
Justin Jackson is not touching the court on 1/2 the teams in this league, although I think he could be a good 8-10th player on a playoff team

I'm not going to comment on the veterans because they are all but gone after this year, and if they are not, they should be.


We HAVE to land a top talent and it has to hit. We cannot have another Never Nervous Pervis type draft or this discussion will go on into 2028. It sucks, but it is reality. Philadelphia is a big market team and they new they were not getting any star players to sign there. Hell, they had to pay JJ freaking Reddick $23MM to play for them. We over paid Hill, Zbo and VC compared to what the market was dictating to get 50% (or worse) of the players they used to be.

I think you are spot on
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#38
This article is not surprising coming from Jason Ross. Grant came on today saying that even if we fall out of the top 5, he's ok with it. The kings are on the right track. Sounds like the narrative over at KHTK has been set.

We kings fans have a lot of experience in this crap.
The kings will win more than they should in the second half. Maybe we'll close out the season on some sort of win streak. They'll play themselves into the 7th or 8th spot. The fans will get excited because grant is telling them that the wins are setting the table for next year. (Hahahaha whatever)
End result will be we missed out on a top 5 talent. We continue to win 26-32 and miss the playoffs. Vlade fires himself. Rinse and repeat. It's just all so dam predictable........
One of these days, Kings Fans are going to realize that the only thing that's happened when they "stepped off of the treadmill," is that they moved from the treadmill in front of the free weights to the treadmill in front of the Zumba class.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#39
I agree that the players aren't losing on purpose. But if fans can see that an organization is tanking then you can be sure players can too. I don't think the players are oblivious to the tanking strategy, and I'm sure there are some who are bothered by the idea that guys who could help them win are sitting on the sideline so the team has a better statistical chance at drafting a rookie who might replace them. It's a fine line to walk.
Discussions about tanking tend to be useless, because you can never get the people involved in the conversation to agree on a standard for what the timetable should be for the rebuild. Because nearly every draft is going to have at least one guy whom fans are willing to tank in order to get, so you can justify tanking every year, if you're determined to do it. And, if you don't get that guy, well... the next draft is going to be the "deepest draft ever," since the last "deepest draft ever."

And, in the meantime, the young players you have are learning bad habits: they're either becoming frustrated by losing, and possibly getting labeled as malcontents, or they're learning how to be okay with losing. Which is arguably worse. And, chances are, the veteran leadership they're expected to look up to are going to be guys who are just going through the motions to collect a paycheck, don't want to be there, and/or don't take their responsibility seriously. Which goes back to why, for these discussions to be in any way constructive, there needs to be some sort of consensus on when the rebuild started, and there needs to be a consensus on what is the reasonable deadline for the rebuild to be finished, before it has to be written off as a failure. At some point, teams stop losing because it's part of a "Process," and they're just losing because they're a bunch of losers.
 
#40
Does anyone disagree that we need a top 3 pick this year, and badly?

We are not even mired in mediocrity, we are mired in crap. Our most wins in a season in the last decade was 38, and that was 10 years ago. We have no major draft asset for 2019 and we have only 3-4 rotational players on our current roster for any top half team in the league.

Fox could be a top 10 PG, outside shot of being an All Star, but I highly doubt that.
WCS is a starter on a bad team or a top 4 big on a good team
Buddy is at best a 6th man
Bogi is legit, but I don't think his ceiling is much higher than what we are currently seeing
Giles is a giant unknown.
Mason is a good 5th guard
Skal has regressed, as much as we all saw the flashes it's still not a sure thing he is a rotational player, let alone a starter in this league.
Justin Jackson is not touching the court on 1/2 the teams in this league, although I think he could be a good 8-10th player on a playoff team

I'm not going to comment on the veterans because they are all but gone after this year, and if they are not, they should be.


We HAVE to land a top talent and it has to hit. We cannot have another Never Nervous Pervis type draft or this discussion will go on into 2028. It sucks, but it is reality. Philadelphia is a big market team and they new they were not getting any star players to sign there. Hell, they had to pay JJ freaking Reddick $23MM to play for them. We over paid Hill, Zbo and VC compared to what the market was dictating to get 50% (or worse) of the players they used to be.
I think you're a bit bearish on the team but overall you're right.

There are just too many things that have to happen for the Kings to get over the mountain. Fox and Giles have to become really good. Either Skal or a top big in the draft have to become really good. Bogie has to become more consistent. Buddy has to become a top tier 6th man. We need to sign someone like Hezonja and have him be a 15ppg type scorer nightly and not a flash in the pan guy playing for a contract. There are just a ton of variables that need to go right but that's not completely surprising during a rebuild.

As of right now, the only guys on the team that play winning basketball in my opinion are Bogie, Koufos and WCS. Everyone else on the team is a below .500 player. There is a huge uphill battle ahead and almost everything needs to go right, point by point, for this team to be a playoff contender in a couple years. We just don't have much to be excited by results wise at the moment. We have Bogie and that's about it as far as a guy that we can more than likely count on to play winning basketball for the next few years. Lots of unknowns.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
#41
I think Jason is steeped in reading the company line. It's either win enough to be a playoff team allowing for more games and additional income-or tank-pure and simple. For example, when Cousins, Rudy, Rondo, on team and the decision was made we were no longer in the playoff hunt...low and behold, one or more of these players would sit out-the reason given-for rest. Now obviously, if we were in a really trying to win as many games as possible, then all of these players would have been available. Jason avoids the reality of the situation. Grant does too and tries to make it plausible to the Kings followers. After all, who wants to pay an already high ticket price to a game for a team that might very well lose because they are not putting their best foot forward by resting players that don't need the rest. However, this is how the system works and big money is at stake. So the Kings, massage the truth, by putting on a public face saying that they are really trying to win all games. But look at the facts.
Surely the cat is well and truly out of the bag about tanking at this point isn't it? We have fans starting a "lottery seeding" thread the first month of the season! Everybody is aware of why teams are losing (or at least not winning) on purpose. So why lie about it? The only thing that was revolutionary about Sam Hinkie's "Process" is the part where he essentially said "yes, we're tanking. what of it?" and the rest of the NBA shuddered and made those awkwardly guilty poses because they would never think of stooping that low. *wink wink. Other than that, he just applied a strategy that has been relevant in the NBA for two decades a little more aggressively than everyone else was applying it. And it worked, sortof. We'll see.

Here's what I'd like to see though: revise the lottery process so this can't happen anymore. It's embarrassing every single year. Failing that, let's stop playing coy and just admit what's going on. If the team is managed well enough you shouldn't have to tank. When your cycle is over and you are truly bad not by design but because your key players aged out of relevance and they were too expensive by then to trade you should be able to take your turn and get your top rookie and start building from there. Unfortunately, like you said big money is at stake. So teams are going to use any competitive edge they can get even if that means stashing their young All-Star on the bench and letting a bunch of mercenary fill-ins risk career ending injury to drive up their lottery odds.

The only part where I disagree with the anti-tank crowd here is that I don't think there's any way to honestly let the lottery run it's course anymore, if there ever was. 5 or 6 teams are tanking every single year. It's why we've been terrible for over a decade without getting a single top 3 pick in that entire time span. Yes it's despicable and self-destructive in many ways and the chances of success are very small but when everyone else is doing it your choices are (1) join in reluctantly or (2) remain irrelevant for the duration of the next decade or two.

The only counter-arguments I've seen involve either impossible trades (ie. The "We got Chris Webber in his prime for a broken down Mitch Richmond once, it can happen again" argument -- to which I say... not bloody likely!) or implausible lottery luck (ie. Golden State plucked an MVP out of the mid lotto, an All-NBA shooter out of the late lottery, and a DPOY winner out of the second round at basically the same time and rode them to multiple championships so we can too! --- to which I say... great. Let me know how that's working out for you in 20 years.) If there's a way to build a winning team in a small market without a top 3 pick that doesn't involve incredible luck, I haven't seen it yet. Though I have a short memory so maybe I just forgot.
 
#42
You know why the Kings have a loser mentality? Because Sacramento has again rightfully earned it's place as Siberia of the NBA.

You know what factored heavily into that? For many years, a dysfunctional organization, objectively horrible decision (often clearly bad at the time), unqualified staff and players.

Could that persist for almost a decade if the local media objectively covered the team and ever attempted to uncover and expose the team's problems? Probably, not.

Does that happen at KHTK? Generally, no.

Is Jason guilty of that? Yes. He's not as bad as many, but yes.

Why does he do that? Because it's good for his business, KHTK ratings.

Is tanking good for KHTK ratings? No.
 
#43
People declaring a draft to be deep? It pretty much does. People calling a draft "weak" is the atypical part. Almost every year, there is an allegedly "deep" draft, that people want their team to tank for.
And yet there have been two drafts (2013, 2016) in the last five years that were consensus weak drafts from the getgo and seem to be living up to that moniker. 2014 was considered strong and deep but doesn't seem to be living up to the hype. 2015 was pretty average if I'm remembering correctly. 2017 was strong and deep and so far is living up to it. 2018 is supposed to be strong and top heavy. 2019 I've heard been called weak but some people think it's underrated.

You say this is the case every year but consensus on each draft has varied quite a bit actually.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#44
Those same "two drafts in the last five years" have also been the only two drafts in the last ten years that were identified as "weak" prior to the draft. The last draft before 2013 that was predicted to be weak before the draft was 2006. In other words, they are the exceptions that prove the 'rule'.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#45
Jason Ross‏Verified account @JasonRoss1140 5h5 hours ago

J.Ross: Stop With The Loser Mentality Already

----------------------------------------------------------------

Words come into our vernacular and sometimes never leave. Like most things, this can be good and it can be bad. One term that drives me crazy is “tanking”. This is something that has been attached to the NBA and many aren’t letting it go. Please let it go. I believe it is meant to describe losing on purpose to help get a better draft pick. That premise seems simple to it’s core but it is an awful thought and flawed take in my opinion. First off, how do we separate a bad season, or lack of talent from tanking. Just because you are losing games does not mean you are tanking. Secondly, if you are losing it doesn’t mean the best idea is to keep losing so you can get a better pick. Does that work? Is that the answer? I say no.

http://khtk.com/j-ross-stop-loser-mentality-already/

Article worth reading IMHO, even though I know it will not sit well with some around here.
I think you can tell the difference between a team that loses because it's bad, and one that loses because it's trying to lose. At least from the players point of view. I think in most cases, you can watch a game, and tell if the players on the floor are trying to win or not, and to me, that's what I care about. Having said that, I do think what happens on the floor can be affected by the coach, and the GM. If a coach rests his best players, it won't stop the players on the floor from giving their best effort, but it greatly reduces their chances of winning.

How much difference improving your lottery slot makes is something we can argue about adnauseam. I read an article by Cole Zwicker some time ago, and in his article he referenced a study done by a stats guru whose name escapes me. He did a study on the draft results from 1995 to 2010. A 15 year period. Bear in mind that the results posted were the average of those years, and that the results in an individual year can be better or worse depending on the talent pool that year.

Out of the 60 players drafted each year, 1st and 2nd round, 41 on average are busts. 11 become rotational players. 5 become very good rotational players. I'm assuming that means players that are borderline stars. And 3 become stars. It also stated that the biggest gap in talent was between the 5th best player, and the 20th best player. It showed the smallest gap was between the 20th best player, and the 100th best player. In short, it implied that a player taken in the bottom of the 1st round, perhaps 25th, isn't significantly better than a player ranked 98th in the group, who goes undrafted.

What that means in general, is that the higher you can pick in the draft, the better your odds of getting a contributing player. I don't think that's a surprise to anyone. What's surprising to me is how dramatically your odds drop once you get past whomever is considered the 5th best player. The question I would have about the survey was, did they do the survey on revised ranking after the fact, or on the ranking at the time of the draft. If the done on the revised ranking, then it makes more sense to me. For instance, if last years draft were revised, I'm sure the Donovan Mitchell would be in the top five.

If you take anything away from this survey, it would be that you have to do your homework prior to the draft. Teams with good scouting dept's tend to make good decisions.
 
#46
Here's the bottom line for me.

We've been a 24-36 team win team for what, 12 years, with the corresponding pick outside the top picks? Doesn't seem to be working for us does it?
Maybe we change up our thinking, no?tanking happens in every sport, doesn't matter the structure of their draft. Our FO is either ok with treading water year after year or they're not. Just pick one damn direction and stick to it. If you want to rebuild from the ground up and your coach coaches to win now on the backs of his vets you get rid of the vets.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#48
In my opinion, I think I can, but only if I'm watching them play. And I'm referring to the players on the floor. You can usually tell if a team is playing hard or just going through the motions. But as I also said, the coach or the GM can affect the outcome by personnel moves or through resting players.
 
#49
I think the Young Players have improved a lot since training camp. It may be hard to lose enough to make the top 3 in the draft. A starting unit of Fox, Bogi, JJ, Skal and Willie may jel and start to compete with most teams. Frank Mason III and Buddy coming off the bench is pretty decent fire power. Then all you need the Vets to do is defend, rebound and score a little from their bench roles and the team wins more than you would like to be a top 3 draft team.

What do you do if that happens?
 
#50
I think the Young Players have improved a lot since training camp. It may be hard to lose enough to make the top 3 in the draft. A starting unit of Fox, Bogi, JJ, Skal and Willie may jel and start to compete with most teams. Frank Mason III and Buddy coming off the bench is pretty decent fire power. Then all you need the Vets to do is defend, rebound and score a little from their bench roles and the team wins more than you would like to be a top 3 draft team.

What do you do if that happens?
Skal and Willie in the staring will pretty much help us tank, no rebound and no rim protection at all.
 
#51
This seems like a lot of hyperbole to support your opinions. You've damned the Kings for a decade if they don't land a top talent this summer. Can they not make trades, sign free agents or draft good players in the 9 drafts/off-seasons between now and then to improve the team?

I still think Vince Carter was a great signing.
I also think VC was a good signing.

I think I’m being realistic in my analysis. I obviously hope all those players are better than I stated.

In regards to drafting or signing top players, the answer is and has been a resounding no. If we draft 7-10 we are most likely not getting a star talent. We also have no history of signing too FAs. We overpay mediocre talent on the back 1/2 or 1/3 of their career.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#52
In my opinion, I think I can, but only if I'm watching them play. And I'm referring to the players on the floor. You can usually tell if a team is playing hard or just going through the motions. But as I also said, the coach or the GM can affect the outcome by personnel moves or through resting players.
I would argue that a team which is sufficiently bad is utterly indistinguishable from a team that is not playing hard. Our mileage may vary as to what the threshold is for "sufficiently bad," though.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#53
I would argue that a team which is sufficiently bad is utterly indistinguishable from a team that is not playing hard. Our mileage may vary as to what the threshold is for "sufficiently bad," though.
Well, it's a subjective argument, and one that we'll probably disagree on. I'm content to leave it at that.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#54
Skal and Willie in the staring will pretty much help us tank, no rebound and no rim protection at all.
Here's one of the problems with wanting a rim protector. or at least having a player that puts up rim protecting stats. The NBA has changed. The traditional center has gone out of vogue. Now you have to deal with the Cousins, Anthony Davis, Karl Anthony Towns type of center. A center that pulls you away from the basket, thereby opening up the lane and making if more difficult to be in a position to block a shot. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is more difficult to put up the same stats as previously.

There are currently 24 players in the league with 1 block per game or more, and at least half of them aren't centers. Willie has flirted with being in that group off and on all season. He currently sits at 0.9 blocks per game. Someone in one of the posts, and I'm paraphrasing, said that an NBA center should average at least 10 rebounds a game. Really? Currently, there are only 11 players in the league averaging more than 10 rebounds a game, and not all of them are centers. There's perception, and then there's reality. I tend to be a realist, because perceptions tend to disappoint me.

I took a trip around the league to check out the rebounding averages for each teams center. A few of the teams have center by committee which is noted.

Hawks: Plumlee - 3.8 rpg, John Collins - 7.0 rpg
Celtics: Baynes - 5.3 rpg, Horford - 7.7 rpg
Net's: Jarrett Allen - 5.1 rpg, Okafor - 3.1 rpg
Hornets: Dwight Howard - 12.6 rpg
Bulls: Robin Lopez - 5.5 rpg
Cav's: Thompson - 6.0 rpg
Pistons: Drummond - 15.7 rpg
Pacers: Myles Turner - 6.6 rpg
Heat: Whiteside - 11.9 rpg
Bucks: Henson - 6.9 rpg
Knicks: Kanter - 10.7 rpg
Magic: Vucevic - 9.3 rpg
76er's: Embiid - 11.1 rpg
Raptors: Valanciunas - 8.4 rpg
Wizards: Gortat - 8.0 rpg
Mavericks: Powell - 5.2 rpg
Nuggets: Jokic - 10.6 rpg
Warriors: Pachulia - 4.9 rpg, Bell - 3.9 rpg
Rockets: Capela - 11.1 rpg
Clippers: Jordan - 15.0 rpg
Lakers: Brook Lopez - 3.8 rpg
Grizzleys: Gasol - 8.4 rpg
Timberwolves: Towns - 12.2 rpg
Pelicans: Cousins - 12.9 rpg
Thunder: Adams - 9.1 rpg
Sun's: Chandler - 9.5 rpg
TrailBlazers: Nurkic - 8.2 rpg
Spurs: Aldridge - 8.4 rpg
Jazz: Gobert - 10.1 rpg
Kings: Cauley-Stein - 6.7 rpg

This isn't to show that Willie is good, bad, or otherwise. Just a reference against the rest of the league. A few of the top rebounders, like Howard or Chandler for instance, are fairly one dimensional players at this stage of their careers. Other's like Kanter, are not very good defensive players. Point is that most of the players listed are flawed in some way. The one's that aren't, at least significantly, are players like Cousins, Anthony, Towns, etc. They're the elite players in the league.
 
#55
Here's one of the problems with wanting a rim protector. or at least having a player that puts up rim protecting stats. The NBA has changed. The traditional center has gone out of vogue. Now you have to deal with the Cousins, Anthony Davis, Karl Anthony Towns type of center. A center that pulls you away from the basket, thereby opening up the lane and making if more difficult to be in a position to block a shot. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is more difficult to put up the same stats as previously.

There are currently 24 players in the league with 1 block per game or more, and at least half of them aren't centers. Willie has flirted with being in that group off and on all season. He currently sits at 0.9 blocks per game. Someone in one of the posts, and I'm paraphrasing, said that an NBA center should average at least 10 rebounds a game. Really? Currently, there are only 11 players in the league averaging more than 10 rebounds a game, and not all of them are centers. There's perception, and then there's reality. I tend to be a realist, because perceptions tend to disappoint me.

I took a trip around the league to check out the rebounding averages for each teams center. A few of the teams have center by committee which is noted.

Hawks: Plumlee - 3.8 rpg, John Collins - 7.0 rpg
Celtics: Baynes - 5.3 rpg, Horford - 7.7 rpg
Net's: Jarrett Allen - 5.1 rpg, Okafor - 3.1 rpg
Hornets: Dwight Howard - 12.6 rpg
Bulls: Robin Lopez - 5.5 rpg
Cav's: Thompson - 6.0 rpg
Pistons: Drummond - 15.7 rpg
Pacers: Myles Turner - 6.6 rpg
Heat: Whiteside - 11.9 rpg
Bucks: Henson - 6.9 rpg
Knicks: Kanter - 10.7 rpg
Magic: Vucevic - 9.3 rpg
76er's: Embiid - 11.1 rpg
Raptors: Valanciunas - 8.4 rpg
Wizards: Gortat - 8.0 rpg
Mavericks: Powell - 5.2 rpg
Nuggets: Jokic - 10.6 rpg
Warriors: Pachulia - 4.9 rpg, Bell - 3.9 rpg
Rockets: Capela - 11.1 rpg
Clippers: Jordan - 15.0 rpg
Lakers: Brook Lopez - 3.8 rpg
Grizzleys: Gasol - 8.4 rpg
Timberwolves: Towns - 12.2 rpg
Pelicans: Cousins - 12.9 rpg
Thunder: Adams - 9.1 rpg
Sun's: Chandler - 9.5 rpg
TrailBlazers: Nurkic - 8.2 rpg
Spurs: Aldridge - 8.4 rpg
Jazz: Gobert - 10.1 rpg
Kings: Cauley-Stein - 6.7 rpg

This isn't to show that Willie is good, bad, or otherwise. Just a reference against the rest of the league. A few of the top rebounders, like Howard or Chandler for instance, are fairly one dimensional players at this stage of their careers. Other's like Kanter, are not very good defensive players. Point is that most of the players listed are flawed in some way. The one's that aren't, at least significantly, are players like Cousins, Anthony, Towns, etc. They're the elite players in the league.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the perception vs. reality. What the 5 positions used to do has nothing to do with todays game, I think some fans have yet to catch their thinking up with the league.

When my perception didn't quite meet with my reality my dad used to tell me " Your eyes were bigger than your stomach". I think some folks have saucer eyes right now.
 
#56
I also think VC was a good signing.

I think I’m being realistic in my analysis. I obviously hope all those players are better than I stated.

In regards to drafting or signing top players, the answer is and has been a resounding no. If we draft 7-10 we are most likely not getting a star talent. We also have no history of signing too FAs. We overpay mediocre talent on the back 1/2 or 1/3 of their career.
You may be right, but things can and do always change. 2 years ago draft prospects wouldn't even work out for us. Last year we had most of the top prospects happy to come. Previously we had crazy dysfunction and a perpetually angry star (I liked him but he was pretty surly). At least some of that has changed. Your initial post said we had to get a top 3 pick or we're doomed, and in this one you state that if we draft 7-10 we are not likely to get a star talent. Are you moving the goalposts or those two separate points?

I think we are most likely to land in the 3-6 range which puts us right in the running for a top-tier player from this draft. Unfortunately that doesn't guarantee anything and the draft is not a sure thing especially now when all the top guys are teenagers. I'm looking forward to next year when we likely have a FA, a high draft pick, Harry Giles, and the current young crop with a year of experience together to see if they can take a step forward as individuals and as a team.
 
#57
As the season has progressed I will admit losing a game has little effect on me. I am now numb to losses. Watching the Kings young Players improve on almost a nightly basis has become my "wins" for this season. I watch certain key matchups and take my enjoyment from them. In the Houston game it was the Harden vs Bogie and CP3 vs Fox inner game that held my interest.

I want the Kings to get a good draft pick but the wins against the Cav's, GSW and OKC were pretty sweet!

I made a bet with my father-in-law (Dubs fan) on that GSW game. One extra large mojito for the winner! He thought even without Steph, there was no way the Dubs lose.

So that win was sweet, to say the least! Got my mojito in Tahoe during new years too! Never doubt those Kings when free drinks are on the line! They came through.
 
#59
You may be right, but things can and do always change. 2 years ago draft prospects wouldn't even work out for us. Last year we had most of the top prospects happy to come. Previously we had crazy dysfunction and a perpetually angry star (I liked him but he was pretty surly). At least some of that has changed. Your initial post said we had to get a top 3 pick or we're doomed, and in this one you state that if we draft 7-10 we are not likely to get a star talent. Are you moving the goalposts or those two separate points?

I think we are most likely to land in the 3-6 range which puts us right in the running for a top-tier player from this draft. Unfortunately that doesn't guarantee anything and the draft is not a sure thing especially now when all the top guys are teenagers. I'm looking forward to next year when we likely have a FA, a high draft pick, Harry Giles, and the current young crop with a year of experience together to see if they can take a step forward as individuals and as a team.

It's not just the Kings, there are a ton of teams that just are never getting a top tier FA unless they are a top tier winning organization. Kings just happen to be at the far bottom of that list.