That's why you find a Goldilocks contract hopefully. If Stein wants $15MM/yr say "Sorry, your FTs were horrendous last year. But We'll put a clause in your contract that you'll make $300,000 more each season if you raise your percentage to75%+ and $700,000 per year if you raise it 82%+" with a minimum threshold amount. And so on....
Is Willie Cauley-Stein still an option at center for Sacramento Kings?
That's why you find a Goldilocks contract hopefully. If Stein wants $15MM/yr say "Sorry, your FTs were horrendous last year. But We'll put a clause in your contract that you'll make $300,000 more each season if you raise your percentage to75%+ and $700,000 per year if you raise it 82%+" with a minimum threshold amount. And so on....
If that was a real offer, I'd do it in a heartbeat, as much as I love Buddy and Bogdan. Fox/Bagley/Turner is an insane future trio on both ends. Especially if Giles panned out too, that'd give us such a huge edge with 3 bigs who are all interchangeable and could dominate on both ends of the court.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
I don’t give up Buddy even for Turner. In a league of 3 point shooting we would be trading away one of the leagues best shooters and one of our leaders for Myles Turner, who has a worse rebounding rate per 36 than WCS, by two full rebounds amazingly enough. Even with his defense that’s a big fat no in my book. Y’all are crazy for being so quick to get rid of Buddy. Dude is a stud and such a hard worker.
I’d trade Bogdan though for Turner but both of them? Not a chance. Turner is a good big man but he’s not that good. Fox Buddy Bagley is a hell of a trio not to mention if Giles pans out. You got your all around star in Fox, your 20-10 in his sleep big man and your knock down shooter. That’s great balance right there. What we need to do is get a good rebounding big man that can play solid defense alongside Bagley. A role player type big man.
Nah, not at all. There's very little I'd trade Buddy for that would actually make sense and improve the team and it's a more of how highly I think of Turner as a future asset and how freaking good he's going to be. Adding Bogdan was probably be an overreaction, but Turner would be one of those pieces you open the bank for if they ever wanted to trade him for some reason.
Turner is verging on "unicorn" territory for me. He's already a defensive star at 22 years and a top 3 rim protector in the league. He absolutely deserved some DPOY love for anchoring a fantastic Indy D. His 3-ball has become a great weapon the last 2 seasons shooting 37.3% on 353 attempts. 13.9% TRB is passable, especially for someone who does spend time spacing the floor on offense. Not too worried here either as I think there's plenty left on the bone for rebound chops not sharing time with Sabonis and getting on a higher pace squad that fits his athleticism better (Pacers were 24th in pace last season, Kings were 2nd). He's also on a super team friendly deal for just $18 mil/season for the next 4 years at a flat rate.
reptilexcq2
Bench
Please, no Willie. I seen enough of his game to know he ain't good enough. He's average at best coming off the bench, not starter material. In today's NBA, you need a BIG that can stretch the floor, especially so when you have a speedy FOX that attack the basket with speed. The last thing you need is someone clotting up the lane and prevent him from doing so.
If we can't get Vucevic, then go after Lopez from the BUCKS!!
If we can't get Vucevic, then go after Lopez from the BUCKS!!
twslam07
All-Star
Just curious. What are your reasons for thinking Cauley-Stein “gels” with this team?
The Effort Police
Starter
Funny you mention the coaching staff because I feel Joerger enabled him a lot, both with his attitude and the delusions of offensive grandeur. Joerger I feel was one of WCS' biggest supporters... to which WCS promptly said he was being underutilized.
Lol, if he can look at the green light Joerger gave him during his tenure here and STILL think that the coach was holding him back then that says all I need to know about him.
ParniValjak
All-Star
And that is the thing. WCS could just come back and bite you in a major way if you let him go as he becomes a premier big man of the competition.
Alternatively he could just as likely become an albatross contract that you regret signing.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
I like Turner myself and I think he’s going to be a very good big man, but Buddy is one of those core guys on the team that you simply can’t trade away unless it’s for a surefire star. He comes off as the heart and soul of the team. He’s constantly leading by example. When we traded Shump away we were worse off. Not because Shump is a great player but because he was the glue that held the team together. Buddy has the same traits and I would be extremely worried about how the team would respond if he were to be traded.
I certainly respect your stance on Turner but you gotta have a huge pair to trade Buddy away. Fox and Buddy already have their chemistry down to near perfection and play wonderfully together. Plus I’m also of the opinion that Mr. Bagley will soon make us forget all about Turner. All we need is a defensive minded rebounding big man who is ok with being the 4th or 5th option. I wouldn’t mind Jordan actually. He’s not what he once was and should come cheap enough I think.
Hield imo s the Kings best player right now - would actually try to extend him with a big but fair contract for better value. I dont know if I'd taade Hield, but I agree Turner is an excellent looking player. The Pacers will not trade him though. In a year or two, Bagley may become the best player on the Kings.
Chupacabra
Starter
If you're committing to Fox, you'd best keep Hield. Stylistically it makes a lot more sense than trading Hield for a big. If Fox is your guy then you give him space and options on the break. I know Turner can run, but Hield covers more ground than just about anyone. Was he only bested by Curry in terms of players who covered the most distance during last season? Turner would also be a bit redundant now that we know (or at least some do) that Bagley is a monster in the post. Trade the best shooter for a player who uses much of the same space as Bagley? Don't think I would.
Agent23
Starter
I think Harry Giles will be as good as Myles Turner eventually.
We are in a position that I feel we need to spend some money to tie up some very good talent for a few years.
In a couple of years we are going to have to make decisions on players like Buddy and unfortunately we are going to have to make a decision on paying him or trading him.
Sometimes you need to move a good asset before you either lose it or it becomes undervalued.
I sometimes think this up coming season try to sign him to a decent contract for both parties and if not move him like we did Richmond for Webber .
In a couple of years we are going to have to make decisions on players like Buddy and unfortunately we are going to have to make a decision on paying him or trading him.
Sometimes you need to move a good asset before you either lose it or it becomes undervalued.
I sometimes think this up coming season try to sign him to a decent contract for both parties and if not move him like we did Richmond for Webber .
upinsmoke
All-Star
Decision on Buddy huh, Okay I've made my mind up and I'm definitely keeping him.
I watched some offensive and defensive highlights of Vucevic. What Stood out first by far, his fluidity using his left and right in the post. His left is very well developed. Big standout on that - maybe one of the best in the league of switching sides that I've seen lately. Nice looking jump-shot and 3 pointer. Defense was solid in the post and good rebounding. His foot-speed looks decent but not great , and you wonder about perimeter defending. This is where Stein beats most centers - in perimeter defending. Overall though Vucevic an upgrade over Cauley-Stein in many facets - certainly on offense , but question is cost differential for value. Vuc not worth a max contract imo but maybe in the neighborhood of high-teens. This would assume the Kings dump Stein. Stein is the better athlete, and better defender, but that's true in general with most centers compared with Stein. Stein is also 3 years younger - another important factor. It's not an easy decision. Centers dont last as long in the league due to their large frames and weight - 28 should be close to peak playing condition....and Vuc turns 29 the coming season. You wonder about injuries. I think the team priority one is defensive improvement, and while Vuc wouldn't hurt the team much defensively, I dont know if he greatly improves it either. I wouldn't be upset if the Kings go after Vuc for the Playoff berth. Another thing, would going after Vuc first adversely affect Stein's negotiations - Should the Organization look to go for conservative value with Stein first, or more full-on meaty contract for Vuc?
sactowndog
All-Star
Horford might be an option at this point.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
Vucevic is literally an all star. He can provide space for Bagley while also being able to get his. We would have the option to plant either one at any spot on the court and expect reasonable success. He’s a better rebounder, scorer, passer than WCS and hits his free throws. His perimeter defense is worse but it isn’t god awful. He would be a tremendous upgrade at the 5 and is plenty young enough to provide for a few years.
It starts with his $#$%#$ FT shooting.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
Why would he though? He’s “gonna get paid” so there is no incentive. Guy doesn’t have heart. Even if he said it I wouldn’t believe it. Keep him at the right price but if a team makes a stupid offer to him then it’s a hard pass.
He's also going on 29. I'm not sure about tremendous, but agree he'd be an upgrade. I dont think he's a better rebounder really - , marginally better passer- Stein is certainly the better athelete and defender, while Vucevic is more skilled and polished. Their differences between their offensive skill sets is bigger than their defensive ones. I come back to Stein's athletics and age. I would not fault the Kings for keeping Stein either - being conservative. Shooting is a big premium in the league though and probably the single most important stat. I see the move as looking to slam home a playoff berth vs. gambling on Stein's improvement. Late improvement is not unheard of....Vucevic himself had a career year last year after some decent solid though not stellar years earlier.
We'll see if the Kings are in on his sentiment or not.....if they're savvy they load up on incentives in the contract to force the issue.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
When did 29 become old? Those are prime years. Bibby Peja Webber all played for us during those years. We did just fine then.
Not a better rebounder? Vucevic per36 rebounding rate for his career is 12.2, Willie is at 9.5 for his career. That’s a big difference and it is one of our weakest areas as a team. Willie cannot rebound to save his life and we all know it. This is a guy who let 3 straight opposing centers grab 20 plus rebounds each with one of those centers getting a never before seen stat line. Think about that.
Vucevic isn’t the greatest center in the league but he can do things that Willie can’t or won’t. He’s far more consistent and has played well for years. He’s a good rebounder and assists at a slightly higher rate than Willie does. He’s a worse defender, but Willie really hasn’t been a great defender either. 0.8 blocks per game for a guy touted for his defense coming out of college? His free throw percentage has declined in each of the last 3 seasons. Going from 66 percent to a career low 55 last season.
Willie has had ample opportunity to show us something. He’s not a bad center but I would classify him as a fringe starter. He will always be a liability in close end game situations due to his horrendous free throw shooting. He’s not a big time blocker or rebounder. He covers the perimeter really well but the closer you get to the basket the worse he is.
2-3 boards per game is something, but I dont know about a big difference and I dont know if that will automatically translate for the Kings comparatively with Stein. This Kings team was not a bad rebounding team last year, especially compared to Kings teams of the past. They weren't excellent, but they were solid in rebounding last year. Where Vucevic could help more is scoring, an aspect that isn't a weakness for these Kings, but won't hurt either. He has a competent jump shot from different ranges. - which is what Bjelica would fill-in from time to time, but was also too inconsistent. You are correct about Stein's blocking being anemic for his athletics and FT shooting the 2 most frustrating aspect of Stein's game currently. Those must be factored into the future contract. Is Stein willing to work on his offensive game - FTs, and jumpshooting? Is the organization willing to give him more offensive development time, or is Bagley set to gobble it all up? You could make a case Stein is the best athlete on the team, but might he improve his skills and effort? And are the Kings looking at resigning stein or going after another player. 29 is a peak playing age, but does Vuc have room to get better from last season, and will Vuc be able to play the transition pace well -if what the KIngs still want. I'd say Stein with his athletics and IF he works hard could improve, but that's a big IF. Stein still is 25 If the Kings are focused on making the playoffs and more immediate results, then going after Vucevic is a decent plan as long as not breaking the bank.
If they want to give us a 1st too, sign me all the way the hell up. Couldn't imagine a more perfect defensive mentor for Bagley and Giles and he's still damn good/impactful.
It's possible, but I doubt it. Turner may be an All Star next year.....he's what Cauley Stein should be closer to. Giles needs to learn how to lay off fouling. I like Giles effort - he brings it more consistently than Stein which is again on Stein. One thing (among several) frustrating about Stein, is he'll have these occasional games where he goes bonkers and dials in on defense. You know its there but inconsistent; is it his conditioning? I think there's shouldn't be a reason why Stein could not be a all-defensive player in the NBA besides himself. If one knew Stein would commit better to defense and improve his FT shooting, he'd get a generous contract. In reality its a search for value and gambling with his contract.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
^^ Giles was already greatly reducing the fouls as the season went along. After his nightmare start he only had a handful of games where he fouled anything that moved. Dude learns so quickly and there’s zero doubt in my mind he’ll continue to improve in that aspect of the game.
Some of the later season games he was in foul trouble quickly even in limited minutes, I recall...but that's neither here nor there. Giles is not under the microscope now, and he'll have chances to improve.
Here's another rumor-mill report on Kings not going after Vucevic:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/nba...-unlikely-to-pursue-nikola-vucevic/ar-AACYGAz
"The Kings could look to add Dewayne Dedmon or DeAndre Jordan They also may try to sign Jonas Valanciunas while the team also hasn’t ruled out bringing back restricted free agent Willie Cauley-Stein." - there are trade-offs again, and Dedmon? No....Jordan or Valanciunas maybe.....but not too exciting.
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