Is Vlade the right guy to hire next coach?

KingMilz said:
We gave up garbage to sign more garbage that's more expensive and longer term deals while hampering us in the future in regards to draft picks. Again the trio of Rondo/BellyKk have been given every chance to turn this around and yet there back ups Darren/Seth/Acy have matched or out performed them while being on shorter leashes and having less chance to get into a rhythm.

I keep seeing this thing how the Rondo gamble paid off.....if it did that's the worst gamble of all time cause all hes done is inflate his value while
having limited impact in regards to w/l overall. He took over from Darren a guy making less that could actually be a better player now.

Koufos is currently last in the big man rotation despite being a favourite of Karl's and Marco is challenging or even surpassing eMpTy and Sessions in terms of horrible.
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Bels and KK are having disappointing seasons. They will in all likelihood bounce back. Been good vets for too long. Championship caliber vets actually playing for contenders. They didn't lose their talent by magic overnight. We could have traded them at the deadline fairly easily, will still be able to do so over the summer. Or just as likely bring in a new coach and watch the magic as they suddenly remember how to play. Unless you would like to stand for the dubious proposition that if Gregg Poppovich were our coach those guys would still be struggling, they are a long way from lost causes. Just, like much of our personnel (yes Jerry, much of our personnel) better suited for a more controlled pace and game.

And your Rondo issues have truly blinded you. The whole league is talking about his bounceback, and no, Darren Collison is not as good as he is. He's also a Cousins voice, which is critical. If he wants to return, which is of course the question, he might be the vet PG around here for years.
 
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I think the better question is "is Vlade the right person to hire a starting big to play along side Cuz and is he the right one to hire a starting SG". I think the answer is"yes" to both. If we have those two pieces selection of a coach is a piece if cake.

We have good players on our team now. Good enough to do the job IF we had a second starting big man and a starting SG. In my view Willie isn't it this year or next. He is not experienced enough yet and his stamina hasn't been proven.

Picking a new coach s not a problem. If we had those two pieces in the starting lineup Karl might even be able to get the job done.
 
pshn80 said:
I think the better question is "is Vlade the right person to hire a starting big to play along side Cuz and is he the right one to hire a starting SG". I think the answer is"yes" to both. If we have those two pieces selection of a coach is a piece if cake.

We have good players on our team now. Good enough to do the job IF we had a second starting big man and a starting SG. In my view Willie isn't it this year or next. He is not experienced enough yet and his stamina hasn't been proven.

Picking a new coach s not a problem. If we had those two pieces in the starting lineup Karl might even be able to get the job done.
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I disagree on Cauley-Stein. Outside of having a reliable midrange/long range jumper he's pretty much exactly the guy the majority of us have wanted lining up next to Boogie. And I think his offense will improve.

This team definitely needs a quality starter at SG. and beyond that it needs a coach that plays to his team's strengths, more perimeter defense and probably a good stretch 4.

I'm good with Boogie and Trill starting together. If anything I'd see Vlade trying to move Rudy to patch other holes.
 
funkykingston said:
I disagree on Cauley-Stein. Outside of having a reliable midrange/long range jumper he's pretty much exactly the guy the majority of us have wanted lining up next to Boogie. And I think his offense will improve.
JJ
This team definitely needs a quality starter at SG. and beyond that it needs a coach that plays to his team's strengths, more perimeter defense and probably a good stretch 4.

I'm good with Boogie and Trill starting together. If anything I'd see Vlade trying to move Rudy to patch other holes.
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You may be right. With Willie I agree he is probably who we have been waiting for. I suspect the reasons he hasn't played more is that he still isn't whole on defense- spectacular but not whole - and he has limits on his stamina because of health reasons. I think those are the key factors for his playing time not the stupidity of the coach. Because of that he should be brought along as a key backup this season and next. Need a legit starter now or by next season for sure.

When we nave these two keys it will be much easier for a coach to play to his players strengths.
 
OK, I can't let these statements about Willie go by unchallenged, because they keep showing up on these boards:

* Can someone please tell/show me any actual evidence of Willie's lack of stamina?
Other than George Karl's early-season statements, I have seen zero physical evidence on the basketball court of any lack of stamina whatsoever from Willie for over 3 months.
Anyone see him huffing and puffing, hands on hips, any more than any other player?
Just because he is pulled quickly by Karl does not mean he doesn;t have stamina enough to play 30+ minutes.
Don;t buy into a consensus/groupthink opinion unless there is evidence/support for it.

* Why is Willie's offense any worse than most defensive-oriented big men in the league?
Why is it supposedly so bad that he can;t see court time?
On the contrary, I've been fairly amazed at his offensive prowess the past 5-6 games - he has made almost all of his jumpers and hooks the past 8 games, and is shooting 70%! (mostly on dunks and layups)
(He's 9 for 11 on FT's in the same stretch - 82%!!)
His left-handed hooks those 2 games were revelatory - not many big men have that off-handed hook shot.
So I'm not buying this smokescreen about how bad his offense is - from the eye test, what I've seen out there is that Willie is a MUCH better threat in the paint than KK or most defensive-oriented big men.
Would anyone rather have Deandre Jordan shooting 10-ft shots or hooks in the lane? (or god forbid - free throws?!)
 
pshn80 said:
You may be right. With Willie I agree he is probably who we have been waiting for. I suspect the reasons he hasn't played more is that he still isn't whole on defense- spectacular but not whole - and he has limits on his stamina because of health reasons. I think those are the key factors for his playing time not the stupidity of the coach. Because of that he should be brought along as a key backup this season and next. Need a legit starter now or by next season for sure.

When we nave these two keys it will be much easier for a coach to play to his players strengths.
Click to expand...

I think the simple reason WCS doesn't play more is because George Karl doesn't like playing rookies.
 
pshn80 said:
You may be right. With Willie I agree he is probably who we have been waiting for. I suspect the reasons he hasn't played more is that he still isn't whole on defense- spectacular but not whole - and he has limits on his stamina because of health reasons. I think those are the key factors for his playing time not the stupidity of the coach. Because of that he should be brought along as a key backup this season and next. Need a legit starter now or by next season for sure.

When we nave these two keys it will be much easier for a coach to play to his players strengths.
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The reason WCS doesn't play more is because of Karl. He doesn't like playing rookies and has said so several times this year. He can't bring himself to have faith in young players, so he plays the vets more (especially in the 4th quarter). He has been that way pretty much his whole career.
 
Bricklayer said:
Bels and KK are having disappointing seasons. They will in all likelihood bounce back. Been good vets for too long. Championship caliber vets actually playing for contenders. They didn't lose their talent by magic overnight. We could have traded them at the deadline fairly easily, will still be able to do so over the summer. Or just as likely bring in a new coach and watch the magic as they suddenly remember how to play. Unless you would like to stand for the dubious proposition that if Gregg Poppovich were our coach those guys would still be struggling, they are a long way from lost causes. Just, like much of our personnel (yes Jerry, much of our personnel) better suited for a more controlled pace and game.

And your Rondo issues have truly blinded you. The whole league is talking about his bounceback, and no, Darren Collison is not as good as he is. He's also a Cousins voice, which is critical. If he wants to return, which is of course the question, he might be the vet PG around here for years.
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There is nothing in the last 3 years that proves Rondo is a better player or teammates than Darren in terms of helping a team win. That's very debatable and honestly if it's close give me the more athletic guy making 7million per year over they guy that's about to start making 10 plus million.

If Bellenlli and Koufos have bounce back seasons than I will change my mind and say looking back at it Vlade had a good offseason 2 years ago and he started something that will lead us to the playoffs and that I was wrong. But right now his signings and off season were crap he went all in and we only have zero to show for it.
 
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Bricklayer said:
No, actually, the fanbase is suffering from PSTD at this point.

The overall organization has in fact failed to deliver for a solid decade now. But THIS one? THIS group? Not so much. They've only been making decisions for less than a year. Had to hit the ground running, put out numerous brush fires over the summer left to them by the previous regime rather than just concentrating on building. And there have been some positive improvements. We finally didn't blow a draft pick. You own distaste for him doesn't change the fact we won the Rondo gambit as he's had a big bounceback year. We got back Omri on a good deal. Not a single player we dumped has done anything for anyne this season -- that's talent evaluation too. In fact half of them are currently out of the NBA. It hasn't been a perfect run, but then again there is a widespread perception a big chunk of the problem might be a coach that again was a holdover.

THIS organization, THIS brain trust has done just fine since taking over. That haven;t fixed everything, but they've stabilized things and improved us at least a little. If you were going to can every front office who didn't turn you into a playoff team inside their first season then there would be no employed GMs. Ainge would never have lasted to create a title team. Pop would never have lasted long enough to name himself coach. It takes a little time. At the very least more than a single offseason. At the very least this crew not only deserves but NEEDS to get to name its own coach, and start an offseason in full control making alterations to a team it takes responsibility for. Then you see from there.
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:cool::cool: you win the thread
 
IfAt1st said:
OK, I can't let these statements about Willie go by unchallenged, because they keep showing up on these boards:

* Can someone please tell/show me any actual evidence of Willie's lack of stamina?
Other than George Karl's early-season statements, I have seen zero physical evidence on the basketball court of any lack of stamina whatsoever from Willie for over 3 months.
Anyone see him huffing and puffing, hands on hips, any more than any other player?
Just because he is pulled quickly by Karl does not mean he doesn;t have stamina enough to play 30+ minutes.
Don;t buy into a consensus/groupthink opinion unless there is evidence/support for it.

* Why is Willie's offense any worse than most defensive-oriented big men in the league?
Why is it supposedly so bad that he can;t see court time?
On the contrary, I've been fairly amazed at his offensive prowess the past 5-6 games - he has made almost all of his jumpers and hooks the past 8 games, and is shooting 70%! (mostly on dunks and layups)
(He's 9 for 11 on FT's in the same stretch - 82%!!)
His left-handed hooks those 2 games were revelatory - not many big men have that off-handed hook shot.
So I'm not buying this smokescreen about how bad his offense is - from the eye test, what I've seen out there is that Willie is a MUCH better threat in the paint than KK or most defensive-oriented big men.
Would anyone rather have Deandre Jordan shooting 10-ft shots or hooks in the lane? (or god forbid - free throws?!)
Click to expand...

WCS will have a respectable jumper to 10ft by next year. I honestly didn't think so but the fact that he's already shooting them and making them is outstanding. I remember last game he took a jumper from the ft line off the dribble but was fouls and he missed. My jae hit the ground that he would try that shot.
 
I'm down with Vlade hiring the coach...

There is definitely a plan with the roster he threw together this summer. Not his fault that Karl is a freaking stubborn, washed up, inept, senile old goat of a coach who tries to push a system that goes against the grain of the players he has available.

If Vlade can find us someone competent who isn't obsessed with PACE, we might have a chance.
 
Have we learned nothing from the Malong firing? Let him do his job for more than 2/3 of a season before you call for his head. Would you rather we rehire PDA? As i think we've learned from our coaching a personnel carousel, different does not always mean better.
 
KingMilz said:
But right now his signings and off season were crap he went all in and we only have zero to show for it.
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I would soooooooooo much rather watch this year's team than last year's when we had a bad team to watch. Not a great team now by any means, but one from which we can move forward with just several new players to fill in the holes. The sane fans thought that this year would get us closer to the playoffs and next year would be the year we would make the big push for a playoff spot.

"Zero to show for it"? I think not!! We are well on our way to becoming a much better team.
 
Is he the right guy? Not sure. I think we should bring in another GM and have Vlade be the Assistant GM. I believe his voice should be heard, but I'm not 100% completely sold on him being the guy the decision ultimately lands on.
 
Bricklayer said:
Bels and KK are having disappointing seasons. They will in all likelihood bounce back. Been good vets for too long. Championship caliber vets actually playing for contenders. They didn't lose their talent by magic overnight. We could have traded them at the deadline fairly easily, will still be able to do so over the summer. Or just as likely bring in a new coach and watch the magic as they suddenly remember how to play. Unless you would like to stand for the dubious proposition that if Gregg Poppovich were our coach those guys would still be struggling, they are a long way from lost causes. Just, like much of our personnel (yes Jerry, much of our personnel) better suited for a more controlled pace and game.

And your Rondo issues have truly blinded you. The whole league is talking about his bounceback, and no, Darren Collison is not as good as he is. He's also a Cousins voice, which is critical. If he wants to return, which is of course the question, he might be the vet PG around here for years.
Click to expand...

Doesn't a phrases like championship caliber vet cover a lot of ground? The 6th thru 8th best player on a championship team doesn't equal a impact player and most time, ignoring the hype, equals just another NBA roleplayer. Both of your championship vets were buried by their teams for the playoffs last year, and despite the hype have been journeymen bench pieces. Good value adds for the right team, if they fit the roster. Willie is just better then Kosta and has made him a marginal bench piece. If Belinelli returns to form you should celebrate his resorted value by moving him immediately for anything resembling perimeter defense. To hold either up as a key cog on any team, let alone this one, is over selling them.

Wes Mathews plays both sides and was the third best player on a 50 win team. Even with the injury that's a move that could make a real impact on a team. Giving up value so you can add bench pieces to a sub 30 win team isn't something I think works out long term. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out under a new coach.
 
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OK, so CD just stated that keeping Karl right now is all about $$$. I get that, but if we are certain he's gone after the end of the season, what does it hurt to give Corliss the interim reigns and see what a defensive scheme can do?
 
macadocious said:
OK, so CD just stated that keeping Karl right now is all about $$$. I get that, but if we are certain he's gone after the end of the season, what does it hurt to give Corliss the interim reigns and see what a defensive scheme can do?
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Not to mention... we're trying to open up a new arena next season. The salary cap is set to jump up from $70 million this year to $92 million next year and then to $108 million the year after that. This is not the time to suddenly cheap out on buying out a coach. In NBA money, we're talking about a drop in the bucket here. You bought an NBA franchise not a McDonald's. Philadelphia took on over $30 million worth of junk contracts this year just to get a couple of draft picks and we're suddenly worried about spending an extra $7 or $8 million to get the head coach position right? I get that the perception of bleeding money by firing coach after coach is what bothers the minority owners who have no real say in this, but that's sunk cost. If we need to fire the coach, we need to fire the coach.
 
That's exactly what I've been saying for YEARS -
it makes ZERO BUSINESS SENSE to be chintzy about head coaches for the Kings- this is a half-a-billion-dollar franchise, with operational costs in the hundred(s) of millions, and they're allowing the entire franchise to be a failure because they don;t want to pay the money (just a few million more) it takes to get a proven coach who can do right with this roster, give or take a few additions/subtractions?!

That's simply a short-minded, myopic view of the business.
Any owner (or part owner) seriously worried about the relatively small amounts of money for coaching shouldn;t be in a position to influence the franchise with such poor business strategy.
 
IfAt1st said:
OK, I can't let these statements about Willie go by unchallenged, because they keep showing up on these boards:

* Can someone please tell/show me any actual evidence of Willie's lack of stamina?
Click to expand...

He does have sickle cell. It's been reported numerous times that he can't play more than 30 minutes because of it.
 
Bricklayer said:
Bels and KK are having disappointing seasons. They will in all likelihood bounce back. Been good vets for too long. Championship caliber vets actually playing for contenders. They didn't lose their talent by magic overnight. We could have traded them at the deadline fairly easily, will still be able to do so over the summer. Or just as likely bring in a new coach and watch the magic as they suddenly remember how to play. Unless you would like to stand for the dubious proposition that if Gregg Poppovich were our coach those guys would still be struggling, they are a long way from lost causes. Just, like much of our personnel (yes Jerry, much of our personnel) better suited for a more controlled pace and game.

And your Rondo issues have truly blinded you. The whole league is talking about his bounceback, and no, Darren Collison is not as good as he is. He's also a Cousins voice, which is critical. If he wants to return, which is of course the question, he might be the vet PG around here for years.
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KK and Bells' will definitely bounce back under another coach and system
 
206Fan said:
How are the pick swaps an illusion for the dim witted?? Are you talking about yourself here?!?!

One of the many things stopping the Pau Gasol trade was the fact that Philly had to approve it! That's a joke right there.

So what if we miss the playoffs this year? Is that still a good trade?

FOR WESLEY MATTHEWS who didn't even come here!

It's a consensus that Vlade is probably one of the worst GMs right now.. the same guy who said he probably won't draft Porzingis because he's too raw..(I pleaded for him here).
Click to expand...

I'm not 100% up to date on all this but wouldn't we not have had the money to sign Rondo without making that trade?
 
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