Is Jimmer in Smart's Doghouse?

[treach1976]

Reading between any number of lines:

1) there was pressure to play Jimmer from the Maloofs. My between the line readings here are the Maloofs apparently being wowed by Jimmer and being involved in his drafting; Jimmer's outsized promotional footprint compared to role on team; IT's veiled reference early in the year to "politics" being why he was splitting time with Jimmer off the bench between Brooks -- could have applied to either Jimmer or Brooks, or possibly both (Brooks = Petrie man, Jimmer = Maloof man, IT = Smart's man); Jimmer's erratic and odd use -- possibly Smart finding ways to get him a few minutes because he had to?

2) Smart is desperate now, and not listening to anybody. My evidence here is that ever since receiving a phone call from the Maloofs the night after the intial reports of the sale began to leak a couple weeks ago, his coaching style/rotations have changed. His comments about not coaching to keep anybody happy because the team has to get wins could mean something other than what other people thought it meant. He may not have been talking about just players. He might also have been saying that with his job in obvious peril from a new owner, and the Maloofs no longer his owners or guardians, that he was going to coach desperate with no set aside minutes dictated by outside interests.

3) The 12 man rotations are and always have been moronic. But, BUT, people seem to only want them to end if they end with their guys in the 9-10 man. Unfortunately that is not the way it always works. Jimmer getting dropped may have been nothing more than Smart abruptly coaching to win, scrapping the everybody gets to play philosophy, and getting almost ends justified the means about things. He will play anybody who gives him a hope of victory, latch onto them, and ride them. Jimmer too as we saw a few game ago. But it seems clear that Smart has kind of shortened his intial rotations, and then if he gets guys on a run after half he no longer cares about subs. He needs to win, desperately. You might think Jimmer could aid him with that, but in no logical system are Jimmer/IT/Brooks three way splitting minutes, nor Reke/Thornton/Jimmer. Somebody has to lose out. If Smart truly is desperate Jimmer may have another shot eventually as Smart flails around looking for anybody to help, but I suspect any Jimmer minutes just to give Jimmer minutes are done for.

Notice of late Smart possibly looking out for himself rather than carrying the organizations water. Rotations and minutes shortening, and guys getting cutbacks include Hayes, Johnson, Jimmer,and surprisingly Thronton -- all guys who you could see various interests having an interest in getting minutes to save face/justify moves, or in Thornton's case, to potentially make a move. But with Petrie likely out after the year the Maloofs already out, those parties aren't going to be there to reward Smart for loyally playing their players. As a two tiem loser already and possessiing the secodn worst record of any coach in the NBA, he may never get another shot. These could be his last 3 months as an NBA head coach, as in ever, unless he can get the team winning.

Agreed for the most part with everything above, except it sounds just a little too rational/calculated. No doubt he feels immense pressure to win. No doubt he knows it involves getting tighter on rotations. But at the same time, can a man that has - as one of the hallmarks of his coaching style - a player's coach reputation, truly turn that off? Npialm's explanation that Jimmer seems by nature to be an even-keeled - "You just have to be ready when the coach calls your name", type of player just makes this decision that much easier for him.

 

[Padrino]

T-rob? Really?

T-Rob average 15.2 MPG Jimmer 14.3 MPG.

Poor little Jimmer Fredette? I just want to see the team win some games. I think he gives us the best chance. I really don't believe the conspiracies. I'm just trying to figure out why he isn't getting more minutes when my eyeballs say he deserves it. I agree with everything you say about Smart though.

erroneously? I guess that's your opinion. I'm sticking with mine.

incorrect again, i'm afraid. by virtue of jimmer's position (or lack thereof), he is going to struggle to earn minutes on a poorly-constructed team that also features tyreke evans, marcus thornton, aaron brooks, and isaiah thomas, in addition to playing for a head coach who can't seem to decide how he wants to partition those minutes. t-rob, on the other hand, is part of a woefully shallow big man rotation, so he's likely going to see more court time than jimmer fredette. but, because of robinson's mistake-prone rookie status, he's going to get the hook much faster than anyone else on the team. i'm assuming that's what you meant by "short leash," at any rate. that said, if, as you say, jimmer fredette is the kings' "best chance" at winning games going forward, then the team clearly has much bigger problems. i happen to disagree with you mightily, though i'd happily give 10-15 minutes per game to jimmer over giving 23 minutes per game to isaiah thomas...

 

[jalfa]

T-rob? Really?

T-Rob average 15.2 MPG Jimmer 14.3 MPG.

Poor little Jimmer Fredette? I just want to see the team win some games. I think he gives us the best chance. I really don't believe the conspiracies. I'm just trying to figure out why he isn't getting more minutes when my eyeballs say he deserves it. I agree with everything you say about Smart though.

Jimmer has several players vying for his back-up minutes, T-Rob has...James Johnson? naturally he's going to average more minutes. doesn't mean his leash is any longer than Jimmer's though.

 

[Npliam]

Jimmer has several players vying for his back-up minutes, T-Rob has...James Johnson? naturally he's going to average more minutes. doesn't mean his leash is any longer than Jimmer's though.

T-rob has been terrible though. I mean really bad for most of the season.

 

[Npliam]

Aaron Brooks is a former 19.6ppg scorer in the NBA. He once scored 43pts in an NBA game.

Marcus Thornton is a former 18.7ppg scorer in the NBA (and on two other occasions has been a 20+ppg scorer for half a season). He once scored 42pts in an NBA game.

People's opinions are going to vary, and certainly just because Smart is desperate does not make his decisions right, but there is certainly a very strong case for vets who have proven they can get it done at such a level. The leap of faith, for any but the faithful, is that Jimmer is the answer, not those guys.

You can see however, from recent minutes developments, that he frankly doesn't have a lot of confidence in ANY of those guys at the moment. Petrie loaded him up with chuckers, and the chuckers aren't even hitting.

I follow the NBA same as you. I know who Aaron Brooks is and what he has done in the league. I think that Jimmer playing with Tyreke in the back court gives you a better chance to win than any of the others.

Instead of saying I am not right you should say who you think gives the Kings a better chance to win and why.

 

[swisshh]

The problem with the Jimmer being benched because Smart no longer fears the Maloofs theory is that Brooks is a worse fit for the team. Brooks is nearly every problem you have with Jimmer, but also less willing to play team ball. Brooks one advantage is ball handling. I understood Jimmer not playing versus Charlotte's pressure due to that, but I don't understand it against New Orleans.

 

[Bricklayer]

The problem with the Jimmer being benched because Smart no longer fears the Maloofs theory is that Brooks is a worse fit for the team. Brooks is nearly every problem you have with Jimmer, but also less willing to play team ball. Brooks one advantage is ball handling. I understood Jimmer not playing versus Charlotte's pressure due to that, but I don't understand it against New Orleans.

If you're going to have to play the PG, which anybody not named Reke or Thornton is , then ballhandling is not an inconsiderbale requirement unless you are out there alongside Reke, or possibly Salmons, both of whom are in the starting lineup. In that way I think the only real possible place where Jimmer COULD play "PG" would be with the starters. Whoever is backup PG has ballhandling responsibilities almost solely.

 

[swisshh]

If you're going to have to play the PG, which anybody not named Reke or Thornton is , then ballhandling is not an inconsiderbale requirement unless you are out there alongside Reke, or possibly Salmons, both of whom are in the starting lineup. In that way I think the only real possible place where Jimmer COULD play "PG" would be with the starters. Whoever is backup PG has ballhandling responsibilities almost solely.

Well, ideally you would have Reke or Salmons in there with some subs and not do wholesale substitutions.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well, ideally you would have Reke or Salmons in there with some subs and not do wholesale substitutions.

ha! Silly goose.

Sincerely,
-- Jonathon Keith Smart

 

[rainmaker]

Smart has no chance of being retained if this team moves. I've seen a number of rumors that Sea have already talked to Larry Bird and PJax and have them lined up to be involved, neither as a coach, but no way in hell if those two are involved are they going to stick with Smart.

Really, only way I see Smart around is if the Maloofs don't sell and we go through another lame duck year. Any new owner here would probably want to cut ties with most of the people tied to the Maloofs and completely restart with the FO and coaching staff, not unlike what we saw in GS where they basically cleaned house. Only people I actually see keeping their jobs if the team is bought and stays are probably Grant/Jerry on the tv end.

Smart most likely will end up just like every coach we've had since Rick. Unemployed as far as NBA head coaching position go, as, and it's a shocker, he's not an NBA level head coach and no one is going to treat him as such, just like Muss, Theus, Natt and Westy, a long line of coaching has-beens(which is being kind).

 

[bajaden]

Smart has no chance of being retained if this team moves. I've seen a number of rumors that Sea have already talked to Larry Bird and PJax and have them lined up to be involved, neither as a coach, but no way in hell if those two are involved are they going to stick with Smart.

Really, only way I see Smart around is if the Maloofs don't sell and we go through another lame duck year. Any new owner here would probably want to cut ties with most of the people tied to the Maloofs and completely restart with the FO and coaching staff, not unlike what we saw in GS where they basically cleaned house. Only people I actually see keeping their jobs if the team is bought and stays are probably Grant/Jerry on the tv end.

Smart most likely will end up just like every coach we've had since Rick. Unemployed as far as NBA head coaching position go, as, and it's a shocker, he's not an NBA level head coach and no one is going to treat him as such, just like Muss, Theus, Natt and Westy, a long line of coaching has-beens(which is being kind).

I totally agree. Any ownership change, here or in Seattle, and Smart is history. I can't speak for the rest of the management people. I suspect some will remain in place in the short term with a chance to prove thier worth to the new owners. I don't think they would want to totally gut the orginization in may with the draft and freeagency coming up almost immediately. Petrie is probably gone, and I think he wants to retire anyway, but folks futher down the pecking order will probably be replaced by attrition. I'm referring to the scouting dept etc.

 

[Glenn]

I totally agree. Any ownership change, here or in Seattle, and Smart is history. I can't speak for the rest of the management people. I suspect some will remain in place in the short term with a chance to prove thier worth to the new owners. I don't think they would want to totally gut the orginization in may with the draft and freeagency coming up almost immediately. Petrie is probably gone, and I think he wants to retire anyway, but folks futher down the pecking order will probably be replaced by attrition. I'm referring to the scouting dept etc.

I would imagine that this draft would be Petrie's last hurrah. It's not a good time to make a major change like that and if the Maloofs have been tying his hands, there is no proof that he has lost his chops. Now, I can understand if he has lost his energy but one last go around with the draft might be the safest. Not my decision is it.?

BTW, as a long time Petrie apologist, I have to point out that the deal that sunk his reputation, trading for Salmons and dropping down and getting Jimmer, now involves two people who some people on this forum want as starters.




Hey, baja, gotta represent the senior citizens as if Petrie qualifies.

 

[Kingster]

Reading between any number of lines:

1) there was pressure to play Jimmer from the Maloofs. My between the line readings here are the Maloofs apparently being wowed by Jimmer and being involved in his drafting; Jimmer's outsized promotional footprint compared to role on team; IT's veiled reference early in the year to "politics" being why he was splitting time with Jimmer off the bench between Brooks -- could have applied to either Jimmer or Brooks, or possibly both (Brooks = Petrie man, Jimmer = Maloof man, IT = Smart's man); Jimmer's erratic and odd use -- possibly Smart finding ways to get him a few minutes because he had to?

2) Smart is desperate now, and not listening to anybody. My evidence here is that ever since receiving a phone call from the Maloofs the night after the intial reports of the sale began to leak a couple weeks ago, his coaching style/rotations have changed. His comments about not coaching to keep anybody happy because the team has to get wins could mean something other than what other people thought it meant. He may not have been talking about just players. He might also have been saying that with his job in obvious peril from a new owner, and the Maloofs no longer his owners or guardians, that he was going to coach desperate with no set aside minutes dictated by outside interests.

3) The 12 man rotations are and always have been moronic. But, BUT, people seem to only want them to end if they end with their guys in the 9-10 man. Unfortunately that is not the way it always works. Jimmer getting dropped may have been nothing more than Smart abruptly coaching to win, scrapping the everybody gets to play philosophy, and getting almost ends justified the means about things. He will play anybody who gives him a hope of victory, latch onto them, and ride them. Jimmer too as we saw a few game ago. But it seems clear that Smart has kind of shortened his intial rotations, and then if he gets guys on a run after half he no longer cares about subs. He needs to win, desperately. You might think Jimmer could aid him with that, but in no logical system are Jimmer/IT/Brooks three way splitting minutes, nor Reke/Thornton/Jimmer. Somebody has to lose out. If Smart truly is desperate Jimmer may have another shot eventually as Smart flails around looking for anybody to help, but I suspect any Jimmer minutes just to give Jimmer minutes are done for.

Notice of late Smart possibly looking out for himself rather than carrying the organizations water. Rotations and minutes shortening, and guys getting cutbacks include Hayes, Johnson, Jimmer,and surprisingly Thronton -- all guys who you could see various interests having an interest in getting minutes to save face/justify moves, or in Thornton's case, to potentially make a move. But with Petrie likely out after the year the Maloofs already out, those parties aren't going to be there to reward Smart for loyally playing their players. As a two tiem loser already and possessiing the secodn worst record of any coach in the NBA, he may never get another shot. These could be his last 3 months as an NBA head coach, as in ever, unless he can get the team winning.

I have the same impression. He figures he's probably gone anyway so I better get as good of a record as possible for the rest of the season so he has something on the resume.

 

[Kingster]

I totally agree. Any ownership change, here or in Seattle, and Smart is history. I can't speak for the rest of the management people. I suspect some will remain in place in the short term with a chance to prove thier worth to the new owners. I don't think they would want to totally gut the orginization in may with the draft and freeagency coming up almost immediately. Petrie is probably gone, and I think he wants to retire anyway, but folks futher down the pecking order will probably be replaced by attrition. I'm referring to the scouting dept etc.

I sure hope Clifford Ray and Alex English can stay. Clifford Ray is a father figure/coach for Cousins, he's done a good job with Thompson and Robinson. English seems to have improved the shooting of Johnson and Tyreke.

 

[bajaden]

I sure hope Clifford Ray and Alex English can stay. Clifford Ray is a father figure/coach for Cousins, he's done a good job with Thompson and Robinson. English seems to have improved the shooting of Johnson and Tyreke.

Yeah, I agree, and those are the type of management people to which I'm referring. Everyone could eventually be replaced at some point. If the Kings were to hire a Phil Jackson (Just for reference folks) I would imagine he'd have his own people in mind that he's worked with for years. But its not unusual for some of the old coaching staff to remain. I can see Grant and Jerry being retained for the TV side and Gary Gerald on the radio side. I wonder if Jerry can hang onto his job as president of player personnel.

 

[pshn80]

I follow the NBA same as you. I know who Aaron Brooks is and what he has done in the league. I think that Jimmer playing with Tyreke in the back court gives you a better chance to win than any of the others.

Instead of saying I am not right you should say who you think gives the Kings a better chance to win and why.

Talk to Smart, he's been trying to answer your question all season.

 

[Section 101]

BTW, as a long time Petrie apologist, I have to point out that the deal that sunk his reputation, trading for Salmons and dropping down and getting Jimmer, now involves two people who some people on this forum want as starters.

Out of the current crop of SF yes. Doesn't mean the trade is any better today because Salmons is the only option.

 

[Glenn]

Out of the current crop of SF yes. Doesn't mean the trade is any better today because Salmons is the only option.

Well then who do you think we should have gotten instead of our starter, Salmons, and how realistic is your choice. I don't know why you are nit picking but that's how you role, I guess. Jimmer was part of the deal also, right?

 

[Section 101]

Well then who do you think we should have gotten instead of our starter, Salmons, and how realistic is your choice. I don't know why you are nit picking but that's how you role, I guess. Jimmer was part of the deal also, right?

Jimmer could have been drafted still or Leonard for our SF. Garcia, JJ, Donte Greene, Evans, Outlaw at SF and we are still in the same boat as Salmons starting. Maybe we go with Barnes in this years draft instead of TRob. But Beno would be an expiring this year and Salmons still has another year.

 

[bajaden]

Jimmer could have been drafted still or Leonard for our SF. Garcia, JJ, Donte Greene, Evans, Outlaw at SF and we are still in the same boat as Salmons starting. Maybe we go with Barnes in this years draft instead of TRob. But Beno would be an expiring this year and Salmons still has another year.

Yeah, although technically, Jimmer was part of the deal, he really didn't have to be part of any deal for us to draft him. We could have just kept our pick and drafted him. Or as you say, Leonard. I wasn't a big fan of the deal, but the Hickson deal bothers me more. We basicly ended up with nothing out of that deal.

 

[jalfa]

Jimmer could have been drafted still or Leonard for our SF. Garcia, JJ, Donte Greene, Evans, Outlaw at SF and we are still in the same boat as Salmons starting. Maybe we go with Barnes in this years draft instead of TRob. But Beno would be an expiring this year and Salmons still has another year.

the further removed from it, the more Honeycutt over Parsons seems like a worse mistake than Jimmer over Leonard. still, you're right, even though the trade seems more palatable now, it was still a massive mistake.

 

[Section 101]

Yeah, although technically, Jimmer was part of the deal, he really didn't have to be part of any deal for us to draft him. We could have just kept our pick and drafted him. Or as you say, Leonard. I wasn't a big fan of the deal, but the Hickson deal bothers me more. We basicly ended up with nothing out of that deal.

We got lots from that trade. We still get to give CLE a first round pick that limits our current ability to trade. I didn't say we got anything good from it !

 

[t-rex]

Tonight we'll see if Brooks outstanding play as of late keeps Jimmer on the bench because there are no conspiracies or sanity when it comes to Coach Smart. If Jimmer gets invited to the 3 point contest or the rookie/sophmore game, would Coach Smart be there to heckle him?

 

[treach1976]

Tonight we'll see if Brooks outstanding play as of late keeps Jimmer on the bench because there are no conspiracies or sanity when it comes to Coach Smart. If Jimmer gets invited to the 3 point contest or the rookie/sophmore game, would Coach Smart be there to heckle him?

My bet is no. IMO anything else is wishful thinking... Unfortunately, I think Keith wants to plug and play IT and AB (come what may) and quit thinking about his guard rotations. He doesn't think he can beat this team tonight anyway.

 

[bajaden]

I listened to an audio of reporters asking Smart questions about Jimmer. The one reporter asked Smart, in what way was Brooks better than Jimmer. Smart never answered the question, but instead berated the reporter, and said Brooks has been a PG in the league for several years now, and that Jimmer was still trying to find his way. Smart didn't liked being asked to explain his substitutions or the amount of playing time he gave certain players. He said that IT, Brooks, Evans, Thornton and Cisco were the reasons for Jimmers lack of playing time.

Whats interesting is that only one guard on the Kings has a better player effeciency rating than Jimmer, and thats Tyreke, whose rating is 18.23. Jimmers is 16.41. And only one guard on the team has a better true shooting percentage than Jimmer, and thats Brooks, who barely beats out Jimmer at 57% to Jimmer's 56.4%. As for 3pt shooting, no one on the team is even close to Jimmer, whose 43.8% from the three ranks him in the top 10 in the league. I'm not saying he should start, although what do we have to lose, but you'd think that if a player can shoot that well, you'd be able to find a way to utilize that talent.

What I find interesting, is that our two stars, Cousins and Evans, are more likely to pass the ball to Jimmer when he's on the floor with them, than just about anyone else on the team. So what does that say about the rest of the players on the team?

 

[LWP777]

I listened to an audio of reporters asking Smart questions about Jimmer. The one reporter asked Smart, in what way was Brooks better than Jimmer. Smart never answered the question, but instead berated the reporter, and said Brooks has been a PG in the league for several years now, and that Jimmer was still trying to find his way. Smart didn't liked being asked to explain his substitutions or the amount of playing time he gave certain players. He said that IT, Brooks, Evans, Thornton and Cisco were the reasons for Jimmers lack of playing time.

Whats interesting is that only one guard on the Kings has a better player effeciency rating than Jimmer, and thats Tyreke, whose rating is 18.23. Jimmers is 16.41. And only one guard on the team has a better true shooting percentage than Jimmer, and thats Brooks, who barely beats out Jimmer at 57% to Jimmer's 56.4%. As for 3pt shooting, no one on the team is even close to Jimmer, whose 43.8% from the three ranks him in the top 10 in the league. I'm not saying he should start, although what do we have to lose, but you'd think that if a player can shoot that well, you'd be able to find a way to utilize that talent.

What I find interesting, is that our two stars, Cousins and Evans, are more likely to pass the ball to Jimmer when he's on the floor with them, than just about anyone else on the team. So what does that say about the rest of the players on the team?

I wish Jimmer would find a spot in the rotation. I'd prefer it to be at the expense of Brooks who I don't believe adds a lot to this team and I don't consider him part of the young nucleus. I think if you benched Brooks (or traded him) and maybe reduced IT's minutes by 5-10 Jimmer very easily could be playing 20-25 minutes a night which is right about where he needs to be.

Like you say, he is our best shooter on a team with a lack of shooters. We need to find a place for him.

 

[Bricklayer]

Smart shouldn't really have to ask what Brooks does better than Jimmer becuase its pretty obvious -- he can handle the ball.

The rest of it is just, well they're both terrible at most things not involving shooting. They don't rebound, like to gun, can't defend.

 

[King Baller]

I like Jimmer in the third guard role coming off the bench. Unfortunately that's also where IT and AB belong. I wonder if Toronto would like either IT or AB as their backup? Perhaps Salmons or Cisco along with either IT/AB for one of the Toronto PG's. IMO Lowry and Calderon should both be starting. Toronto has the reverse PG issue Sacto has

KB

 

[chief bromden]

Jimmer should be getting playing time right now, regardless of how well Brooks or IT matches with Tyreke because this is another lost season. Brooks is not the answer to the future, and the Kings should throw Jimmer in there and let him fail if need be. What is the worst that can happen? Bad inbounds passes? Turnovers coming up the court? Bad entry passes? Invisible defense? Those things happen every single game with Brooks and IT... so there isn't much to lose at this point. Jimmer was getting around 20 minutes a nice in late Dec, early Jan... wonder what happened? Smart pissed that Jimmer's wife is going to road games?

On a side note, is there anything to IT starting once Cousins came back from the suspension?

 

[sqwalk]

Jimmer should be getting playing time right now, regardless of how well Brooks or IT matches with Tyreke because this is another lost season. Brooks is not the answer to the future, and the Kings should throw Jimmer in there and let him fail if need be. What is the worst that can happen? Bad inbounds passes? Turnovers coming up the court? Bad entry passes? Invisible defense? Those things happen every single game with Brooks and IT... so there isn't much to lose at this point. Jimmer was getting around 20 minutes a nice in late Dec, early Jan... wonder what happened? Smart pissed that Jimmer's wife is going to road games?

On a side note, is there anything to IT starting once Cousins came back from the suspension?

Yes, I agree. It looks like most of us want to see a Jimmer/Tyreke backcourt. Please please Smart, start this backcourt and play Jimmer 25 min+ with Reke every night to see what develops. So far with the limited minutes they've played together it's looked very promising, as I believe their games compliment each other.

IT just doesn't give the ball to Tyreke enough or spread the floor enough. He's just too ball dominate.

Start Reke and Jimmer, have Reke primarily bring the ball up the court. I think this team will get better because of the spacing that Jimmer will provide, which will make life easier for Cousins in the post and for Reke to slash to the rim or kick back out for the 3 - like all good teams do. It will help Jimmer's game cause he can curl off screens or receive a wide open 3 from the kick out.