Is Jimmer in Smart's Doghouse?

[t-rex]

Seriously? How else do you explain him getting 2 DNPs in these games against Charlotte and New Orleans? Something else is going on here.

Common excuses I've heard for Jimmer not getting minutes

*His defense (because IT, Brooks, and Thorton are so much superior lol!)
*one-on-one play (isn't that what all the kings do best? Give him 30 minutes a game and I guarantee he averages more assists than Brooks or IT)
*His teammates (from what I've seen, they all seem to support him and play better because of the spacing on the court when he is in the game. I would love to see his +/- compared to the rest of the team)
*Turnovers (See Brooks and IT)

My theory - Coach Smart isn't feeling the pressure to play Jimmer now that the Maloofs and Petrie are out of the picture. He knows his walking papers are coming. Either that or Jimmer did something to pee him off. Jimmer will play 10 + years in the league and will be a solid player. Keith Smart will be unemployed soon.

 

[UK_King]

Well he had a bad game against Memphis coupled with Brooks return from injury, it's probably no more meaningful than that.

 

[t-rex]

Well he had a bad game against Memphis coupled with Brooks return from injury, it's probably no more meaningful than that.

Let me add that to the list of excuses since no one else on the team has bad games. I bet I could argue that Jimmer has had the least number of bad games on the team. Why Brooks is ahead of Jimmer on the depth chart is mind boggling. Develop your young player who has shown vast improvement or play Brooks (not what he used to be)? Not in Smart's world.

 

[pshn80]

Well he had a bad game against Memphis coupled with Brooks return from injury, it's probably no more meaningful than that.

Agree.

 

[UK_King]

It is what it is. We've seen similar things happen to IT.

Would i like to see a bit more of Jimmer? Yeah i would personally. But I'm not the coach.

ho hum.

 

[Npliam]

What doesn't make sense to me is why would you play Brooks over Jimmer? Brooks isn't getting any better than he is and isn't going to be part of the team's long term future. He also isn't any better than Jimmer is right now. It feels like Smart knows he can't play everybody every night so he has benched Jimmer knowing that Jimmer will do the least pouting of the guards.

 

[NoBonus]

At this point in his career, I think it is more like, "Is the dog in the Jimmer house?"

 

[t-rex]

It feels like Smart knows he can't play everybody every night so he has benched Jimmer knowing that Jimmer will do the least pouting of the guards.

I could believe this. This would fall in line with Coach "Smart" line of thinking.

 

[Spike]

It is what it is. We've seen similar things happen to IT.

Would i like to see a bit more of Jimmer? Yeah i would personally. But I'm not the coach.

ho hum.

This. There's no rhyme or reason for what Smart does with his rotations. To question his reasoning would mean that there's some sense to it to begin with. His MO for the past two years is to throw stuff together until something sticks.

 

[t-rex]

This. There's no rhyme or reason for what Smart does with his rotations. To question his reasoning would mean that there's some sense to it to begin with. His MO for the past two years is to throw stuff together until something sticks.

Yeah except nothing ever sticks. He just keeps throwing !@#$#

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I get that Jimmer's defense is often a liability. However, realistically, outside of Tyreke (when he's motivated), John Salmons, and maybe Francisco Garcia, none of the other guards / wing players play much of any defense either.

So, having said that, I fail to understand why a player with the 3rd highest PER on the team receives 8-10 minutes less PT per game than the next 5 players below him (in PER), especially when said player usually displays more of a willingness to make the pass to an open teammate than those playing ahead of him.

 

[Bricklayer]

Reading between any number of lines:

1) there was pressure to play Jimmer from the Maloofs. My between the line readings here are the Maloofs apparently being wowed by Jimmer and being involved in his drafting; Jimmer's outsized promotional footprint compared to role on team; IT's veiled reference early in the year to "politics" being why he was splitting time with Jimmer off the bench between Brooks -- could have applied to either Jimmer or Brooks, or possibly both (Brooks = Petrie man, Jimmer = Maloof man, IT = Smart's man); Jimmer's erratic and odd use -- possibly Smart finding ways to get him a few minutes because he had to?

2) Smart is desperate now, and not listening to anybody. My evidence here is that ever since receiving a phone call from the Maloofs the night after the intial reports of the sale began to leak a couple weeks ago, his coaching style/rotations have changed. His comments about not coaching to keep anybody happy because the team has to get wins could mean something other than what other people thought it meant. He may not have been talking about just players. He might also have been saying that with his job in obvious peril from a new owner, and the Maloofs no longer his owners or guardians, that he was going to coach desperate with no set aside minutes dictated by outside interests.

3) The 12 man rotations are and always have been moronic. But, BUT, people seem to only want them to end if they end with their guys in the 9-10 man. Unfortunately that is not the way it always works. Jimmer getting dropped may have been nothing more than Smart abruptly coaching to win, scrapping the everybody gets to play philosophy, and getting almost ends justified the means about things. He will play anybody who gives him a hope of victory, latch onto them, and ride them. Jimmer too as we saw a few game ago. But it seems clear that Smart has kind of shortened his intial rotations, and then if he gets guys on a run after half he no longer cares about subs. He needs to win, desperately. You might think Jimmer could aid him with that, but in no logical system are Jimmer/IT/Brooks three way splitting minutes, nor Reke/Thornton/Jimmer. Somebody has to lose out. If Smart truly is desperate Jimmer may have another shot eventually as Smart flails around looking for anybody to help, but I suspect any Jimmer minutes just to give Jimmer minutes are done for.

Notice of late Smart possibly looking out for himself rather than carrying the organizations water. Rotations and minutes shortening, and guys getting cutbacks include Hayes, Johnson, Jimmer,and surprisingly Thronton -- all guys who you could see various interests having an interest in getting minutes to save face/justify moves, or in Thornton's case, to potentially make a move. But with Petrie likely out after the year the Maloofs already out, those parties aren't going to be there to reward Smart for loyally playing their players. As a two tiem loser already and possessiing the secodn worst record of any coach in the NBA, he may never get another shot. These could be his last 3 months as an NBA head coach, as in ever, unless he can get the team winning.

 

[bajaden]

Well he had a bad game against Memphis coupled with Brooks return from injury, it's probably no more meaningful than that.

Hmmm, I doubt thats it. Probably has more to do with tightening up his rotation, and someone had to be a loser in that debate. Yeah, Jimmer had one bad game, and since, Brooks has had a couple of less than stellar games. And lets remember, one game before that bad game was one of Jimmer's best games of the year where he played the entire second half except for the last minute or so. Also remember, that earlier in the season, Jimmer still got minutes even when Brooks was starting. Jimmer was also voted the most improved player on the team by his teammates. So I think this has more to do with Smart trying to save his job, than it does Jimmer.

 

[Glenn]

Someone mentioned that Jimmer wasn't even on the bench the last game i.e., he may have had the flu. I don't know for sure. One thing we all know is that Smart plays every player suited up. Perhaps the only person skipped over would be Honeycutt. I don't see anything nefarious involved. Let's look closely at the next game's players. I cannot imagine Jimmer being in the dog house.

 

[t-rex]

So I think this has more to do with Smart trying to save his job, than it does Jimmer.

Good luck with that Coach. I see a complete house cleaning no matter who the owners are.

 

[Glenn]

This. There's no rhyme or reason for what Smart does with his rotations. To question his reasoning would mean that there's some sense to it to begin with. His MO for the past two years is to throw stuff together until something sticks.

Yes, but, but, the only method to his madness was to play everyone. That's as far as I got to making sense of his rotations. Now this. Keith Smart, the man of mystery.

 

[Glenn]

Reading between any number of lines:

1) there was pressure to play Jimmer from the Maloofs. My between the line readings here are the Maloofs apparently being wowed by Jimmer and being involved in his drafting; Jimmer's outsized promotional footprint compared to role on team; IT's veiled reference early in the year to "politics" being why he was splitting time with Jimmer off the bench between Brooks -- could have applied to either Jimmer or Brooks, or possibly both (Brooks = Petrie man, Jimmer = Maloof man, IT = Smart's man); Jimmer's erratic and odd use -- possibly Smart finding ways to get him a few minutes because he had to?

2) Smart is desperate now, and not listening to anybody. My evidence here is that ever since receiving a phone call from the Maloofs the night after the intial reports of the sale began to leak a couple weeks ago, his coaching style/rotations have changed. His comments about not coaching to keep anybody happy because the team has to get wins could mean something other than what other people thought it meant. He may not have been talking about just players. He might also have been saying that with his job in obvious peril from a new owner, and the Maloofs no longer his owners or guardians, that he was going to coach desperate with no set aside minutes dictated by outside interests.

3) The 12 man rotations are and always have been moronic. But, BUT, people seem to only want them to end if they end with their guys in the 9-10 man. Unfortunately that is not the way it always works. Jimmer getting dropped may have been nothing more than Smart abruptly coaching to win, scrapping the everybody gets to play philosophy, and getting almost ends justified the means about things. He will play anybody who gives him a hope of victory, latch onto them, and ride them. Jimmer too as we saw a few game ago. But it seems clear that Smart has kind of shortened his intial rotations, and then if he gets guys on a run after half he no longer cares about subs. He needs to win, desperately. You might think Jimmer could aid him with that, but in no logical system are Jimmer/IT/Brooks three way splitting minutes, nor Reke/Thornton/Jimmer. Somebody has to lose out. If Smart truly is desperate Jimmer may have another shot eventually as Smart flails around looking for anybody to help, but I suspect any Jimmer minutes just to give Jimmer minutes are done for.

Notice of late Smart possibly looking out for himself rather than carrying the organizations water. Rotations and minutes shortening, and guys getting cutbacks include Hayes, Johnson, Jimmer,and surprisingly Thronton -- all guys who you could see various interests having an interest in getting minutes to save face/justify moves, or in Thornton's case, to potentially make a move. But with Petrie likely out after the year the Maloofs already out, those parties aren't going to be there to reward Smart for loyally playing their players. As a two tiem loser already and possessiing the secodn worst record of any coach in the NBA, he may never get another shot. These could be his last 3 months as an NBA head coach, as in ever, unless he can get the team winning.

Lots of thoughts. Some, of course make no sense but when dealing with Smart, everything has to be considered. Yes, he has changed his coaching style to trying to get Boogie 40 minutes. That is an obvious and good change. Even the minutes of the end tier players, often called starters on other teams, seems to have shot up with the bottom 7 or 8 getting rare minutes. That's good and the continuing on the job training of Smart continues.

This may have nothing to do with anything but he spent a great deal of the post game interview last time talking about his kids and his desire to keep them in a stable environment especially when it comes to schooling. He was very distracted by the "sale" of the Kings. Perhaps this sale rattled something else in his brain. I think we ought to give a prize to the best guess as to why Jimmer is not playing. I vote for the flu.

Was Smart a PG in college? Does that factor in for anyone's guess? At least the subject is a good distraction.

 

[t-rex]

I think we ought to give a prize to the best guess as to why Jimmer is not playing. I vote for the flu.

I've seen people on twitter insinuating that Smart didn't play him because it was MLK's birthday. Hopefully, they were joking. As much as I don't like Smart, I think that is ridiculous. I hope it was the flu. That would make more sense than anything else I've read.

 

[Padrino]

this is the second or third time such a thread has popped up at kf.com this season, but here's my question to you, conspiracy theorists: how can a "head coach" who routinely utilizes 11-12 man rotations even have a doghouse?! i've been as ardent a critic of jimmer fredette as any since he was drafted, but there has been marked improvement in his second season, and i'm both willing to acknowledge that progress, as well as admit that i'd probably much rather see jimmer in the rotation than isaiah thomas, at this point. however, to believe that keith smart's inability to manage a rotation is some sort of grudge against jimmer is about as empty of logic as smart's substitution patterns. the guy just doesn't know what he's doing. that's all. end of story. should jimmer survive the firebombing that's to come under new ownership next season, he, along with anyone else who remains, will undoubtedly benefit from a much more veteran and infinitely more sensible coaching hire...

 

[t-rex]

this is the second or third time such a thread has popped up at kf.com this season, but here's my question to you, conspiracy theorists: how can a "head coach" who routinely utilizes 11-12 man rotations even have a doghouse?! i've been as ardent a critic of jimmer fredette as any since he was drafted, but there has been marked improvement in his second season, and i'm both willing to acknowledge that progress, as well as admit that i'd probably much rather see jimmer in the rotation than isaiah thomas, at this point. however, to believe that keith smart's inability to manage a rotation is some sort of grudge against jimmer is about as empty of logic as smart's substitution patterns. the guy just doesn't know what he's doing. that's all. end of story. should jimmer survive the firebombing that's to come under new ownership next season, he, along with anyone else who remains, will undoubtedly benefit from a much more veteran and infinitely more sensible coaching hire...

Jimmer has had the shortest leash of anyone on the roster all year despite putting up some of the best numbers on the team. Explain this to me? It's either a conspiracy or Smart's incompetance or both.

 

[Bricklayer]

Good luck with that Coach. I see a complete house cleaning no matter who the owners are.

I think for Smart to have any chance at being retained he would pretty much have to make the playoffs. And even that might not be enough if the team is taken to Seattle for a complete stripdown. However if he were able to get it up to 35+ wins on the year he might think that would be enough to at least give him an argument in future job interviews.

 

[Npliam]

I think for Smart to have any chance at being retained he would pretty much have to make the playoffs. And even that might not be enough if the team is taken to Seattle for a complete stripdown. However if he were able to get it up to 35+ wins on the year he might think that would be enough to at least give him an argument in future job interviews.

Does Aaron Brooks give you a better chance to win now than Jimmer though? I don't think he does and I know many who don't feel like he does. Marcus Thornton has been pretty bad all year. Do you think he give you a better chance to win than Jimmer? Maybe last years Thornton does but this years Thornton isn't very good.

 

[t-rex]

Does Aaron Brooks give you a better chance to win now than Jimmer though? I don't think he does and I know many who don't feel like he does. Marcus Thornton has been pretty bad all year. Do you think he give you a better chance to win than Jimmer? Maybe last years Thornton does but this years Thornton isn't very good.

I've watched every Kings game this year and I strongly believe that Smart's best chance at winning is to start Jimmer at PG with Evans at SG and play him 25-30 minutes. Bring IT off the bench. But then again, I don't want Smart back next year.

 

[Padrino]

Jimmer has had the shortest leash of anyone on the roster all year despite putting up some of the best numbers on the team. Explain this to me? It's either a conspiracy or Smart's incompetance or both.

incorrect. thomas robinson undoubtedly has the shortest leash of anyone on the roster. and keith smart is, indeed, an incompetent head coach, but there is no conspiracy. there is no doghouse. the guy has no formula. he lacks the guts and the acumen to create the kind of consistency by way of rotation that breeds success in a young roster. you're just imagining up excuses for a coach who has a bad habit of losing games for his own team. why bother? let a bad coach be a bad coach, rather than some sort of evil genius bent on driving poor little jimmer fredette out of the rotation. many kings have been subject to detriment at the whims of keith smart. let's not pretend like jimmer is the only one. it does a disservice to the team...

 

[Bricklayer]

Does Aaron Brooks give you a better chance to win now than Jimmer though? I don't think he does and I know many who don't feel like he does. Marcus Thornton has been pretty bad all year. Do you think he give you a better chance to win than Jimmer? Maybe last years Thornton does but this years Thornton isn't very good.

Aaron Brooks is a former 19.6ppg scorer in the NBA. He once scored 43pts in an NBA game.

Marcus Thornton is a former 18.7ppg scorer in the NBA (and on two other occasions has been a 20+ppg scorer for half a season). He once scored 42pts in an NBA game.

People's opinions are going to vary, and certainly just because Smart is desperate does not make his decisions right, but there is certainly a very strong case for vets who have proven they can get it done at such a level. The leap of faith, for any but the faithful, is that Jimmer is the answer, not those guys.

You can see however, from recent minutes developments, that he frankly doesn't have a lot of confidence in ANY of those guys at the moment. Petrie loaded him up with chuckers, and the chuckers aren't even hitting.

 

[treach1976]

incorrect. thomas robinson undoubtedly has the shortest leash of anyone on the roster. and keith smart is, indeed, an incompetent head coach, but there is no conspiracy. there is no doghouse. the guy has no formula. he lacks the guts and the acumen to create the kind of consistency by way of rotation that breeds success in a young roster. you're just imagining up excuses for a coach who has a bad habit of losing games for his own team. why bother? let a bad coach be a bad coach, rather than some sort of evil genius bent on driving poor little jimmer fredette out of the rotation. many kings have been subject to detriment at the whims of keith smart. let's not pretend like jimmer is the only one. it does a disservice to the team...

t-Rob has been flat out horrible for extended stretches. Everyone on the team has had similar stretches (Jimmer may be second in that department), but until a few weeks ago, T-Rob had not shown anything in games prior to that stretch to justify a longer leash. I think that's changed a little for him now.

 

[Padrino]

t-Rob has been flat out horrible for extended stretches. Everyone on the team has had similar stretches (Jimmer may be second in that department), but until a few weeks ago, T-Rob had not shown anything in games prior to that stretch to justify a longer leash. I think that's changed a little for him now.

i don't disagree with you one bit. i was simply pointing out that t-rex had rather erroneously pegged jimmer as the king with the shortest leash...

 

[Glenn]

Jimmer has had the shortest leash of anyone on the roster all year despite putting up some of the best numbers on the team. Explain this to me? It's either a conspiracy or Smart's incompetance or both.

I vote for incompetence.

 

[t-rex]

incorrect. thomas robinson undoubtedly has the shortest leash of anyone on the roster. and keith smart is, indeed, an incompetent head coach, but there is no conspiracy. there is no doghouse. the guy has no formula. he lacks the guts and the acumen to create the kind of consistency by way of rotation that breeds success in a young roster. you're just imagining up excuses for a coach who has a bad habit of losing games for his own team. why bother? let a bad coach be a bad coach, rather than some sort of evil genius bent on driving poor little jimmer fredette out of the rotation. many kings have been subject to detriment at the whims of keith smart. let's not pretend like jimmer is the only one. it does a disservice to the team...

T-rob? Really?

T-Rob average 15.2 MPG Jimmer 14.3 MPG.

Poor little Jimmer Fredette? I just want to see the team win some games. I think he gives us the best chance. I really don't believe the conspiracies. I'm just trying to figure out why he isn't getting more minutes when my eyeballs say he deserves it. I agree with everything you say about Smart though.

 

[t-rex]

i don't disagree with you one bit. i was simply pointing out that t-rex had rather erroneously pegged jimmer as the king with the shortest leash...

erroneously? I guess that's your opinion. I'm sticking with mine.