Is George Karl the right coach for Cousins?

[PoundForPound]

With Malone, we pounded the rock constantly applying pressure down low and were successful. Our free throw rate was through the roof. Now? The complete opposite. I'm watching the game against Charlotte right now and I see Cousins wandering around the perimeter, it's disgusting. You have a premier big man in Cousins, yet you're limiting his talent so much by putting him in these positions. Cousins even said it in an interview recently that the offense under Karl makes it easier for defenders to guard him. This inexcusable. We all know Karl isn't going anywhere, but I'm starting to get a bad bad feeling about this relationship. What do you think?

 

[VF21]

With Malone, we pounded the rock constantly applying pressure down low and were successful. Our free throw rate was through the roof. Now? The complete opposite. I'm watching the game against Charlotte right now and I see Cousins wandering around the perimeter, it's disgusting. You have a premier big man in Cousins, yet you're limiting his talent so much by putting him in these positions. Cousins even said it in an interview recently that the offense under Karl makes it easier for defenders to guard him. This inexcusable. We all know Karl isn't going anywhere, but I'm starting to get a bad bad feeling about this relationship. What do you think?

Post a cite to that comment, please. Thus far all anyone is said is they saw someone on Twitter refer to it, but nothing more.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think he is best used in both spots. The main problem I see is there is far too much basketball being played around Cousins. IMO, if you take a shot that didn't involve your franchise player in any way, it's a bad shot. Or at least the type of offensive mentality that won't get you very far down the road.

The main issue with putting Cousins up high is you're not making use of the potential he has as a double team threat. He can pass, he gets doubled almost every touch down low, why is it so hard for them to get open looks?

 

[Tetsujin]

With Malone, we pounded the rock constantly applying pressure down low and were successful. Our free throw rate was through the roof. Now? The complete opposite. I'm watching the game against Charlotte right now and I see Cousins wandering around the perimeter, it's disgusting. You have a premier big man in Cousins, yet you're limiting his talent so much by putting him in these positions. Cousins even said it in an interview recently that the offense under Karl makes it easier for defenders to guard him. This inexcusable. We all know Karl isn't going anywhere, but I'm starting to get a bad bad feeling about this relationship. What do you think?

I keep seeing people write this but no one has ever bothered citing an actual quote.

Not saying it's not true, I just need to see the man's actual words.

 

[PoundForPound]

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/kings-blog/article13051646.html

SACBEE.com

“I think (a defender’s) job is a lot easier,” Cousins said. “They don’t have to come down and pound on me each possession."

 

[spok22s]

I've noticed this as well. But i'm willing to give Coach Karl the benefit of the doubt. At least until next season after we have hopefully improved personnel and he has had more time to incorporate his vision.

 

[lawlman91]

Michael Malone was perfect for Cousins chemistry-wise but MM did not make the guards as effective as they are under GK. We won because MM optimized the strengths of the team, which is post-ups. GK is not and probably will not win as much because he isn't optimizing strength, but growing strength by giving the guards more experience. At least that is just my amateur opinion.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Michael Malone was perfect for Cousins chemistry-wise but MM did not make the guards as effective as they are under GK. We won because MM optimized the strengths of the team, which is post-ups. GK is not and probably will not win as much because he isn't optimizing strength, but growing strength by giving the guards more experience. At least that is just my amateur opinion.

Are you of the opinion that maximizing the guard play is worth marginalizing Cousins? I ask because I've seen you stump for the guards way more.

 

[VF21]

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/kings-blog/article13051646.html

Nice that you chose to truncate the quote. Here's what Cousins actually said:

“I think (a defender’s) job is a lot easier,” Cousins said. “They don’t have to come down and pound on me each possession. I like the way our offense is now, it makes everyone else more involved and a better player.”

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/kings-blog/article13051646.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Tetsujin]

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/kings-blog/article13051646.html

We're getting into semantics here but he doesn't say that he's easier to defend, he's saying that a defender's job isn't as difficult in terms of getting bullied in the post. He then goes on to say he likes the offensive game plan

 

[lawlman91]

Are you of the opinion that maximizing the guard play is worth marginalizing Cousins? I ask because I've seen you stump for the guards way more.

No. Recently I've been infatuated with running plays through the post, and then passing it out when needed. It's a beautiful way to play basketball, and very contradictory to today's basketball culture. Recently I saw a game involving Northern Iowa, and I saw them consistently feed a guy called Tuttle. They were really good at finding angles for the post-entry pass, and I jumped up, saying something along the lines of, "Hey, that's a lot like the Sacramento Kings!" I decided that from then on I'd be an advocate of post-up basketball. And if I remember correctly in the last game I was harping on about how it always works to feed Cousins in the post, and if he isn't in, feed Gay in the post. Now that we won't make the playoffs, its reasonable to let Karl experiment with his guards, and next season we can focus on getting to the playoffs the MM way, with some more confident guards as a cherry on top.

 

[Tetsujin]

Nice that you chose to truncate the quote. Here's what Cousins actually said:

“I think (a defender’s) job is a lot easier,” Cousins said. “They don’t have to come down and pound on me each possession. I like the way our offense is now, it makes everyone else more involved and a better player.”

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/kings-blog/article13051646.html#storylink=cpy

It's sorta like me turning this quote:

It is better to be alone than in bad company.

-George Washington

into this:

It is better to be alone...

-George Washington

Oh my god, guys! George Washington is advocating being a loner!

 

[Iced Espresso]

I'm not sure what you hoped to see after a handful of games from Karl.

Certainly a guy with his experience is going to get much more time than this season before I criticize him too much.

Give the guy the off season and a month into regular season at least, and Collison or a replacement in the off season as well to play with.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I think he is the right coach for Cousins, because he will do whatever it takes to utilize his best talents in an effort to win as much as possible. He also commands the sideline, locker room, and practice floor...which is good for DMC. He needs a guy, that he can't help but respect and listen to. George Karl is that guy, more than anyone else in the league

 

[Iced Espresso]

I think he is the right coach for Cousins, because he will do whatever it takes to utilize his best talents in an effort to win as much as possible. He also commands the sideline, locker room, and practice floor...which is good for DMC. He needs a guy, that he can't help but respect and listen to. George Karl is that guy, more than anyone else in the league

One thing Karl mentioned I was really impressed with was he promotes his coaching staff. That earlier in his career he tried to do too much, and for health reasons and as he came to think about the game more he thought it best to better build the foundation and get involved when/where needed.

I'd expect we see some additions in the off season.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

One thing Karl mentioned I was really impressed with was he promotes his coaching staff. That earlier in his career he tried to do too much, and for health reasons and as he came to think about the game more he thought it best to better build the foundation and get involved when/where needed.

I'd expect we see some additions in the off season.

Absolutely. Some were wondering if we got him too late in his career. I'm thinking we got him at the perfect time, because he's more balanced in his views and approach. All of his experience and wisdom settling in with a full life of perspective

 

[206Fan]

It doesn't help for Cuz to be in the paint when he's always doubled team even without the ball. Cuz's offensive game has taken a step back ever since he came back from his injury. I don't fault that on Karl's system.

 

[kingsboi]

let's hold off on too much judgement until he gets one FULL season with him and his system. In the mean time, Cousins has been perimeter oriented way too much. He's trying to be something he is not and that's a stretch 5. Don't even get me started with him taking three point shots...all that being said, I look forward to seeing who Karl brings in as assistants and have them work with the team and maybe one day we revisit this thread.

 

[Bricklayer]

let's hold off on too much judgement until he gets one FULL season with him and his system. In the mean time, Cousins has been perimeter oriented way too much. He's trying to be something he is not and that's a stretch 5. Don't even get me started with him taking three point shots...all that being said, I look forward to seeing who Karl brings in as assistants and have them work with the team and maybe one day we revisit this thread.

The question would very much be is that Cousins, or is that the offense, which is the coach? Because I see Cousins catching the ball 20+ feet form the hoop, so what do you expect. Imagine if Shaq caught the ball 20ft form the hoop., Would we blame him for trying to be a stretch C? If as a coach you want your center to play inside, then you either have him post, or you get some screen action going and have him cut. In a lot of ways we lazily abuse Cuz's versatility by instead having him catch the ball out where a SG normally does, and saying well, if you want to get inside just drive it in there.

 

[kingsboi]

The question would very much be is that Cousins, or is that the offense, which is the coach? Because I see Cousins catching the ball 20+ feet form the hoop, so what do you expect. Imagine if Shaq caught the ball 20ft form the hoop., Would we blame him for trying to be a stretch C? If as a coach you want your center to play inside, then you either have him post, or you get some screen action going and have him cut. In a lot of ways we lazily abuse Cuz's versatility by instead having him catch the ball out where a SG normally does, and saying well, if you want to get inside just drive it in there.

and that's exactly what it is....lazyness...is it on Cousins sometimes not wanting to go inside or is it most of the time his teammates not wanting to post him up because they think they won't get the ball back once they throw it in the post.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

and that's exactly what it is....lazyness...is it on Cousins sometimes not wanting to go inside or is it most of the time his teammates not wanting to post him up because they think they won't get the ball back once they throw it in the post.

I don't believe either of those two things to be true. And, to the extent that the latter might be true, well, maybe if they gave him the ball more often than once every eight possessions, he might feel more comfortable giving it back.

 

[ParniValjak]

I am yet to be convinced and there have been a few bits and pieces I find disturbing.

- Cousins taking more 3s in practice and coach saying he could be a 35% shooter from beyond the arc. I don't want Brad Miller or Spencer Hawes. I want a low post unguardable beast we had early in the season with Malone.
- Cousins spending more time around the free throw line and the perimeter than in the low post. It takes away from his strength and makes his less efficient and easier to guard

If these translated to more wins, I would be open to the idea but it hasn't. If anything it's made Cousins marginilized at the expense of less talented players. When you go multiple offensive possesions without your franchise player touching the ball and you keep on losing, there is absolutely issues with that.

Great coaches that have gone all the way have always built their team around their franchise centerpiece and made the other pieces fit around him. What we are doing is making Cousins fit the rest of the team which is a wrong way to go around it.

I am still reluctant to make this definitive as I am certain that we want that pick and might be manipulating our way through the rest of the season, trying to put things in place, try a few different things and keep the pick.

If next year we are usings Cousins the same way, I might personally come to Sacramento and get these idiots in a head lock and knock some sense into them.

 

[KingsFanGER]

You have to find ways to react to the defense. I don't like that Cousins is getting less touches on offense. But I'm fine with tinkering around with the way you use him on offense. Cousins isn't Shaq or one of the 90's Centers. He can attack the defense in a lot of ways. Recently posting him up, seems to be less efficient, cause he has troubles finishing and dealing with quick doubles teams.
Tonight we tried to use him as a pick&roll finisher multiple times early in the game. It didn't work all too well, but this is the area where Cousins needs to improve, so I don't mind trying it in a game situation.
Finding a balance which allows you to get the most out of Cousins while not making everyone not named Gay bystanders on offense, is the biggest adjustment we have to make. It will take some time, but I think it will be worth it.
I don't believe that relying on posting up Cousins all of the time with no backup plan, will take this franchise into the playoffs in the West.

 

[PoundForPound]

You have to find ways to react to the defense. I don't like that Cousins is getting less touches on offense. But I'm fine with tinkering around with the way you use him on offense. Cousins isn't Shaq or one of the 90's Centers. He can attack the defense in a lot of ways. Recently posting him up, seems to be less efficient, cause he has troubles finishing and dealing with quick doubles teams.
Tonight we tried to use him as a pick&roll finisher multiple times early in the game. It didn't work all too well, but this is the area where Cousins needs to improve, so I don't mind trying it in a game situation.
Finding a balance which allows you to get the most out of Cousins while not making everyone not named Gay bystanders on offense, is the biggest adjustment we have to make. It will take some time, but I think it will be worth it.
I don't believe that relying on posting up Cousins all of the time with no backup plan, will take this franchise into the playoffs in the West.

I agree, but I've come to notice that within Karl's offensive system, there can be stretches where the ball doesn't even touch his hands. I love the idea of running the offense through Cousins, but not in the way that they're doing it now. DMC is great when catches the ball around the top of the free throw arch, he can almost drive like a guard, and no center is going to stop that. On the flip side of that, he is too turnover prone to rely on that style of offense consistently for 48 minutes. Smaller players stick their hands in and snatch the ball right out of him. Give him the ball where he can go to work without putting the basketball out there. I don't want to see Cousins shooting threes unless he has no option. I want to see Cousins catching the ball with position down-low, our guys have to do a much better job of finding the angle and keeping the defense working. No standing around allowing the opposition to double or even triple team Cousins.

 

[pshn80]

Karl is the team coach. His interest is molding a winning group. What' best for the team effort is the path winning coaches follow. Karl is a winning coach. In answer to the OP question - I think so but we will be better able to answer the question in a couple of years.

Like our team our extremely talented Center is still a work in progress be our coach is better equipped to oversee that progress than any we have had. I hope he is successful.

 

[Padrino]

i'm not yet convinced that george karl is necessarily the right coach for demarcus cousins. i think he is probably the right coach for vivek's/d'alessandro's/mullin's basketball philosophy, but that also may not necessarily be the right basketball philosophy for demarcus cousins...

really, though, none of this hand-wringing will matter much if the kings' front office can't upgrade the talent level across the roster. at this point, i just hope demarcus cousins' superstardom doesn't continue to go to waste in sacramento. his unflinching loyalty to the kings through a great many more "downs" than "ups" has been something to admire, but honestly, i won't find it endearing for much longer...

at some point, i think demarcus needs to demand success from ownership, from the front office. if they fail to place sufficient and complementary talent around him, then he needs to demand a trade. i know he's constantly at war with public perception, but i'd much rather see him succeed elsewhere than waste his prime here. let the new regime truly rebuild their way if they're intent on emphasizing pace above all else. they'll eventually lose demarcus, and they'll lose fans in the process, but at least they won't be attempting to shove square pegs into round holes anymore...

 

[Jerichoholic]

Whatever best improves our chances for winning long-term, I'm good with. I want Cousins to be recognized as a great center, which he is, but I don't care if he puts up big numbers or not.

Welcome to the Dribble Drive Offense, at least Karl's version of it. Unfortunately for Cousins' scoring numbers there is no place for a low post center in this type of offense. With a low post center a defender gets brought into the lane and in Cousins' case sometimes two or even three defenders which neutralizes the ability of the perimeter players to penetrate. Now I do think Cousins will get more opportunities down low when this team gets better from the 3-point line, that way defenders won't be able to cheat as much on him. I think Karl has to overcompensate a little keeping Cousins in the high post all the time because this team can't shoot.

That being said, is this the best offense for Cousins, does it best play to his strengths? Probably not. It can work, with Cousins' skill set I think he can fit in almost any type of offense, but there are probably better fits at center than Cousins. Before Karl he seemed like the most dominant low post force in the league, now he is a good 15 point and 12 rebound guy, still good. If he can do that efficiently with solid defense then this can still work.

 

[Boogie-havoc]

The question should be if he's the right coach for the Kings.

If lowering Big-Cuz stats by a bit while giving more reigns to other players to balance the court is what it takes for us to get W's, then the answer is yes.

Yet to be seen, but I think the question in itself is wrong.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

With Malone, we pounded the rock constantly applying pressure down low and were successful. Our free throw rate was through the roof. Now? The complete opposite. I'm watching the game against Charlotte right now and I see Cousins wandering around the perimeter, it's disgusting. You have a premier big man in Cousins, yet you're limiting his talent so much by putting him in these positions. Cousins even said it in an interview recently that the offense under Karl makes it easier for defenders to guard him. This inexcusable. We all know Karl isn't going anywhere, but I'm starting to get a bad bad feeling about this relationship. What do you think?

Cousins under George Karl so far (9 games)

21 points 11 rebounds 3 assists in 30 minutes per game, on .57 TS%. Minutes are low, but that's mostly because four of the nine games he's played in have been blowouts.

The team's offensive rating over the span of the 9 games is 108.77. That would be good enough for 8th in the entire league. In George Karl's first 10 games, without training camp or preseason. This also having played the Spurs, the Hawks, the Hornets and the Grizzlies during that span, all of whom are Top 10 defensive teams, and all of whom we have played without our starting point guard and third best player.

At this point the right question isn't whether a George Karl-led Kings offense is succeeding or not. It is, and emphatically so. The right question isn't whether Cousins is effective in Karl's offense or not. He is. The right question is whether he can get this team defending at a high enough level to win more often than lose. The defense has been spectacularly bad in this span. Anything complaining about the offensive end is pointless hand-wringing.

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

Mike Malone was the right coach, but Karl is good enough.