is geoff petrie pulling an ainge?

[Jerryaki]

came across the following in one of the espn chats:

John (Portland, ME): Which GM should get more credit for the C's success so far, McHale or Ainge?

Chad Ford: Ainge ... with a big assist from McHale. Ainge did a couple of great things. He got his owner and coach on board with his plan and kept them on board during a serious rough stretch. He was patient and waited to make the right deal. And he was a savvy enough drafter to get enough talent to make it happen. I think what Ainge did in Boston will be a model for other GMs to follow. The problem is most don't have the people skills to manage the owner and coach the way Ainge did. It's an art form that few people really understand and respect.

which of course made me go "wtf?!" because ainge was really, really lucky as opposed to "savvy" and i don't believe he ever really thought that this would turn out how it did.

but then i got to thinking...is it possible that the kings are going that route? collecting enders, high lotto picks, young talent, to make a run at a disgruntled superstar in a few years? could this somehow turn out like the celtics of 2007-2008?

 

[hoopsfan]

Ainge got lucky becasue his old Celtic buddy, (Frankenstein), handed him an assist.

I agree with you, Jerryaki...I don't see how he was a savvy drafter...they've sucked...badly for the past few years. Pierce was the only really good player they had. They weren't going anywhere, and Pierce possibly was, until the whole Ray Allen and the promise from Minny that KG would sign.

You think that's what Petrie's doing?? There would have to be an incredible amount of luck for something tike that to happen again, no?

 

[Jerichoholic]

Petrie's not planning that far ahead, believe me. He isn't planning what this team should look like next month. We can rationalize the creation of this poor team however we want but the truth is that it was a compliation of bad moves by our savvy GM and nothing more.

 

[Bricklayer]

came across the following in one of the espn chats:

John (Portland, ME): Which GM should get more credit for the C's success so far, McHale or Ainge?

Chad Ford: Ainge ... with a big assist from McHale. Ainge did a couple of great things. He got his owner and coach on board with his plan and kept them on board during a serious rough stretch. He was patient and waited to make the right deal. And he was a savvy enough drafter to get enough talent to make it happen. I think what Ainge did in Boston will be a model for other GMs to follow. The problem is most don't have the people skills to manage the owner and coach the way Ainge did. It's an art form that few people really understand and respect.

which of course made me go "wtf?!" because ainge was really, really lucky as opposed to "savvy" and i don't believe he ever really thought that this would turn out how it did.

but then i got to thinking...is it possible that the kings are going that route? collecting enders, high lotto picks, young talent, to make a run at a disgruntled superstar in a few years? could this somehow turn out like the celtics of 2007-2008?

No. See that's where we cross into wishful thinking, into what SHOULD happen again, rather than what has. The complaint has been preceisely that we have NOT been accumualting enders, picks, kids. Ainge worked that angle for years and years, and contrary to Chad Ford's assertion would still be working that angle today if it hadn't been for that fateful ping pong ball this summer. We have completely ignored that angle, and THAT is why Geoff has been trampling on his legacy. If his moves indicated any long term preparation whatsoever we would be in the middle of a process wiht a brighter future. But it doesn't. He has continued to add MLE vets every year. Hasn't dumped a single veteran for any of the things Ainge had in spades -- youth, picks, cap room. He has just flat out been trying to win now, which makes the utter failure to do so even more mortifying.

And the part that really blows my mind, is he should know better. He really should. Geoff's overall record as a GM is shaky. But once before he set the stage for such a rebuild, and it led to by far the best years of his career, and our franchise. We had cap room and a ton of incoming youth in '98-99, and that was why we were a team fo the future. For Geoff to just completely ignore the very tactic that led to his greatest success continues ot mystify me.

 

[nbrans]

The only theory I even half-heartedly believe in anymore is that Geoff saw that GMs were scared to trade with him and so he made really dumb moves for a couple of years. And then he's going to pull the rug out from under them. But this is 100% wishful thinking.

 

[Bricklayer]

Time for me now to sound the rare positive note: maybe this year. I mean really. I don't care how delusional this whole enterprise has grown, how stubborn, there has to be a limit for everyone. Maybe this is the year when we finally start playing the game for the future.

My fear of course is that that limit will be reached, and the response will be some more panicky win now moves trying to get back to #8 spot contention rather than ones designed to help the blatantly obvious necessity of a rebuild.

 

[Jerryaki]

^^^ good to have validation. thought that maybe geoff was going, "well, miller, reef, and KT's contracts will run out at some point, and then we'll strike gold!"

the bit about ainge is still mind-bottling. "savvy."

 

[Smills91]

I do think Petrie has a master plan that will take time to execute. I think he's in a much more promising situation than even Ainge was because he has some vets with value: Bibby/Artest even Miller. In just 2 years the contracts of Moore/Kenny/SAR become VERY tradeable. You have good young talent being constructed under the current crop of vets. You factor in 1-2 more lottery picks and the team could actually be very good in 3 years and even better if/when some trades happen as well along with perhaps a big free agent splash in 2010. Sure it does nothing for this year nor next, but there is hope upon the horizon.

 

[kingsfan101]

And the part that really blows my mind, is he should know better. He really should. Geoff's overall record as a GM is shaky. But once before he set the stage for such a rebuild, and it led to by far the best years of his career, and our franchise. We had cap room and a ton of incoming youth in '98-99, and that was why we were a team fo the future. For Geoff to just completely ignore the very tactic that led to his greatest success continues ot mystify me.

Which is why I continue to wonder if it's entirely his decision, or the owners are breathing behind his neck.

No, I don't want to make excuses for him. I have always given him the benefit of doubt, and ultimately he is responsible for his decisions, whatever the pressure. Keep wondering though, since Maloofs are definitely involved in some of the decisions, and keep making statements about remaining competitive. Maybe with the arena issue, they don't want to go into a full rebuild mode.

Earlier this year, Petrie was giving indications of going for a rebuild. Then he turned around and signed Miki. Not sure if he had a change of heart, or if he decided to go along with the Maloofs about staying competitive while rebuilding.

 

[kennadog]

Which is why I continue to wonder if it's entirely his decision, or the owners are breathing behind his neck.

Keep wondering though, since Maloofs are definitely involved in some of the decisions, and keep making statements about remaining competitive. Maybe with the arena issue, they don't want to go into a full rebuild mode.

When the Maloofs were new owners they left basketball decisions up to GP. I think the Maloofs are definitely having the ultimate say in a lot of basketball decisions in recent years. Most recently, I think Theus was the Maloof's choice, not GP's. Of course, if Petrie doesn't like it, he could leave. Maybe he's an optimist.

 

[tyrant]

tell the maloofs to quit being cheap. they shouldve boughtout kenny thomas, avoided the mikki moore signing and got someone that can play

 

[kingsfan101]

tell the maloofs to quit being cheap. they shouldve boughtout kenny thomas, avoided the mikki moore signing and got someone that can play

Actually, signing Moore indicates that they are not being cheap. That it was a bad decision is a different matter, but it showed they were willing to spend to help the team improve.

As for KT, again, a buyout is usually done with 2 things in mind

1. To get more PT for the young guys, who shall be the future
2. To save the owners some money

By not negotiating a buy out, they are not saving any money. They also just fired a coach, and continue to pay his salary.

So, they are not being cheap. That is very different from being smart though.

 

[fnordius]

In just 2 years the contracts of Moore/Kenny/SAR become VERY tradeable.

Well, sure, compared to now. But, with very occasional exceptions, enders are what people trade for in order to get out from under marginal contracts. Once in a blue moon a team will trade a good player for an ender because they need to clear cap space to give a new contract to their franchise player. But that only happens every few years.

So, just as we have wished that someone would give us enders for KT, we will be deluged with offers of garbage contracts. As a rebuilding team, we'd be insane to take them. As a rebuilding team, we desperately WANT those enders. Right now, the second most valuable guy on the T'pups' roster is Theo Ratliff, whose cap space, along with Jefferson, is the hope of that franchise. Do you think they'd trade him to us? Maybe for Martin and useful filler, otherwise they'd be nuts to let him go.

The only circumstances under which we should consider trading our enders would be if they get us lottery picks, and to do that, we'd have to be ready to accept some absolute rubbish contracts. And that's only a desirable scenario if the Maloofs feel like forking out 20 or 30 million in buyouts. Even then, when our great crop of lottery picks hit the end of their rookie contracts, they'd all need raises, and our money would be tied up in buyouts. So we'd get a few good years followed by collapse.

We may as well face it, there will never be a day when we're happy to have KT on the payroll.

 

[Gary]

What really mistifies me is how as fans we sit here and tell ourselves that "two years we have cap space, than three years we have cap space.. " With Geoff it seems we will never have the space with him constantly signing guys like Moore, and Salmons to 3-5 year contracts. Salmons I agree was a decent signing, but as it stands we have 4 wing players. You look at the Salmons signing again and it was not really a good one unless we were to get rid of Artest, Martin, or Garcia which we have not done.

I see cap space coming in 3 years but I am sure the $$ will be spent long before the 3 years is up with players like Jalen Rose, Juwan Howard, or Steve Francis being signed for 3-5 year deals which expire long after their usefulness.

 

[Kingster]

I'm really down on Petrie. This whole Theus-team drama has been created in large part by Petrie. One obvious schism with this team is that of the older mediocre (to be kind) jaded vets and the young up and comers. How can you coach that? Theus would have it so much better if everybody were young so he could change the culture. Now it's his credibility against the vets, who as far as I am concerned, have none, but the youngins might be influenced by them. So Geoff didn't want to rebuild; he wanted to "refurbish". What did he get? SAR, Thomas, and Miki, and throw in the insane one, and you've got some great role models for the youngins, that's for sure. Thanks, Geoff. It's a wonderful world...

 

[Semi]

I see cap space coming in 3 years but I am sure the $$ will be spent long before the 3 years is up with players like Jalen Rose, Juwan Howard, or Steve Francis being signed for 3-5 year deals which expire long after their usefulness.

Those players lost their usefulness long ago so you can bet that we will pick them up.

 

[Kingster]

Time for me now to sound the rare positive note: maybe this year. I mean really. I don't care how delusional this whole enterprise has grown, how stubborn, there has to be a limit for everyone. Maybe this is the year when we finally start playing the game for the future.

My fear of course is that that limit will be reached, and the response will be some more panicky win now moves trying to get back to #8 spot contention rather than ones designed to help the blatantly obvious necessity of a rebuild.

I have the same fear. And why shouldn't we have that fear? That's the tact he's taken for the last 2+ years. The proof is in the pudding, and right now that pudding is muck.

 

[Kingster]

I do think Petrie has a master plan that will take time to execute. I think he's in a much more promising situation than even Ainge was because he has some vets with value: Bibby/Artest even Miller. In just 2 years the contracts of Moore/Kenny/SAR become VERY tradeable. You have good young talent being constructed under the current crop of vets. You factor in 1-2 more lottery picks and the team could actually be very good in 3 years and even better if/when some trades happen as well along with perhaps a big free agent splash in 2010. Sure it does nothing for this year nor next, but there is hope upon the horizon.

I'm sorry, but I can put on multiple lenses of rose colored glasses until all I see is dark red, but two years of Miki-Thomas-SAR makes me want to puke. Mike-Thomas-SAR do NOTHING for the development of a young team in my view. They suck the minutes from young players, their attitudes (in some cases) suck, they are mere placeholders that evince no enthusiasm in me in any way. Genie, please give me three wishes - have them all disappear.

 

[Gary]

I'm sorry, but I can put on multiple lenses of rose colored glasses until all I see is dark red, but two years of Miki-Thomas-SAR makes me want to puke. Mike-Thomas-SAR do NOTHING for the development of a young team in my view. They suck the minutes from young players, their attitudes (in some cases) suck, they are mere placeholders that evince no enthusiasm in me in any way. Genie, please give me three wishes - have them all disappear.

Maybe Petrie sees a 16 year PF old who he thinks we will be able to draft because he knows w/ that PF rotation we have now we won't win more than 20 games, and will be guaranteed a top 4 pick when that player declares

OK that was out on a limb, and a joke.. heheh

 

[fnordius]

Genie, please give me three wishes - have them all disappear.

Sorry, can't grant that, it's against the CBA!