Is Boogie better or does he have better teammates? (split)

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
Blob said:
There was a moment vs the Spurs that warmed my heart despite the disappointing outcome.

Boogie got free for spin move and authoritative two hand jam. He immediately put his head down and sprinted to the other end.

No Tarzan howl. No chest thumping. No egocentric posing to the adoring crowd. Just hustle and moving on to the next play and comeback attempt.

This is a superstar to believe in. This is franchise player to love. This is someone to make Sacramento proud.

This isn't something we witnessed too often last season, precluded by physical conditioning, health, apathy and toxic relationship with geriatric coach who swindled the organization into a swan song payday.

Vlade did right by the organization and his best player. He saw the chink in the armor, among others, and took corrective measures (you're fired!), seizing on the dysfunction in Memphis to secure a seriously good coach.

The lead-up to opening of Golden One Center was about fielding a team that competed at level commensurate with the quality of the new venue. Beautiful building deserves beautiful team to watch. At least one not eliminated from playoff contention by December.

Led by new coach and best player resolute and capable, that vision appears increasingly lucid.

I am perfectly okay with Boogie leading the NBA in technicals again, a perennial occurrence or so it seems, engaging in constant dialogue with refs who "have it in for him", if his level of play persists.

Boogie has been unbelievably good over a small sample size of three games. And this is not something we could say last year, except for his tremendous run the first two weeks of 2016.

I have had an ongoing debate in order for the Kings to become a legitimate team, Boogie needed to become better. He needed to do more than 53% TS and 0.8 assist to turnover, his career averages, engage defensively on more than 60-70% of possessions.

The counterargument of which I vehemently disagree is Boogie has done his fair share. And it is the cast of characters around him, incompetent and futile, that have been the difference between winning and losing. I don't buy this argument. It doesn't pass the sniff test.

Boogie hasn't been good enough over his career, regardless of the incompetence around him. But that appears to be changing. He's growing up before our eyes. He's shed the fat and excuses. He appears ready to be the player he is capable of becoming: a legitimate superstar. If you don't see the difference between Boogie 2016-17 and seasons past, I don't know what to tell you. Except open your eyes.

Last night was a microcosm of Boogie's career: a formidable opponent takes its best shot. Usually that would result in fatal blow. Shocking and awing with athleticism and execution, the Kings are on their heels (and down by 18 points). The team from Minnesota (despite their lame starting PG) is pretty good, with shooters quickness size and strength and a game plan. And a smart coach.

Victory needs to be earned. Last year, and last decade, it was unearned through carelessness, sloppiness, and forced shots. It was unearned through quick shots and casual disregard for an opponent willing to take what you give them.

Credit can be duly given to Rudy and Barnes and Ben (BOOM BABY!!!) and Ty for their timely contribution and savvy.

But it was Boogie who set the tone with his dominance and efficiency, turning a 10 point deficit to 5 point margin with three ball and mid range jumper to close the gap and change momentum. He fouled out in crunch time, but his defense on Towns and constant inside and outside barrage resulted in potential second consecutive home defeat into first ever new home win.

Boogie has been 53% TS in his career. That's not good enough to lead a team anywhere, unless you have a Top 5 defense and pass the ball like Bill Walton in his prime.

In three games Boogie is 66% TS. That's incredible, in-line with my best case forecast of 56-58% TS, based on system and conditioning and PG's who know how to draw and dish.

The Kings embark on a 5-game roadie with momentum and confidence at their back and their "superstar" playing like one. If Boogie continues to play like he has, regardless of other elements that have a tangible effect on winning, i.e. bench production, SG play, perimeter defense, etc, I like our chances to come home on this trip . 5-3 or better.

Let's not lose forrest for the trees. This team goes as far as Boogie takes 'em, and so far the taking has been mighty fine:

  • 30 PPG (#6 in NBA)
  • 35,6 PER (!!!!)
  • 0.9 assist to turnover
  • GREAT defense
  • 16.0 FGAs per game (shot attempts down 4.5 from last year)
  • Leads NBA in FTAs per game at 15.3 (2.3 FTAs more than AD at #2)

??? I think your write-up this time is more of a treatise on Boogie than it is a pre-game discussion of our upcoming game against the Hawks...

Just saying I think they could easily have been two different threads...and perhaps should be. The discussion of Boogie's evolution transcends one game intro.
 
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??? I think your write-up this time is more of a treatise on Boogie than it is a pre-game discussion of our upcoming game against the Hawks...

Just saying I think they could easily have been two different threads...and perhaps should be. The discussion of Boogie's evolution transcends one game intro.

I am just expressing my foremost thoughts on the first few games. However you want to classify the thread or whatever is insubstantial to me.

The point I was trying to convey is the reason the Kings are 2 wins out 3 is Boogie playing fantastic, and that bears emphasis as we embark on this road trip.
 
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The reason why those of us who supported Boogie the entire time didn't want him moved was because we thought he had the innate talent to be dominant the entire time, but the substandard environment, such as hating your coach and wanting him fired (therefore subconsciously team to lose so he is fired), impeded that

This game will be the toughest this trip IMO. Atlanta has been balling. We will hang with them but this might be a close loss
 
The reason why those of us who supported Boogie the entire time didn't want him moved was because we thought he had the innate talent to be dominant the entire time, but the substandard environment, such as hating your coach and wanting him fired (therefore subconsciously team to lose so he is fired), impeded that
And so did being fat and having tendonitis in both feet.
 
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Blob,

Cousins has played very similar to this for years, you just haven't acknowledged it.
You can bark and scream all you want about your precious TS%!!!111!!!1 but the reality of the matter is that he fouled out in crunch time YET AGAIN, but somehow... some inexplicable way, the Kings actually won the game this time!

How is that possible?!?!!?
It MUST be some magical new thing Boogie did!

No, it's called HAVING TEAMMATES THAT CAN PLAY AND A COACH THAT CAN COACH.
That's it - no magical change in Boogie so far this year. He was even more dominant many times the past few years in losses, you just never noticed it because you have blinders on when the Kings lose (probably some internal self-defense mechanism of yours)

You are a textbook example of someone who (just like many sportswriters who soon will be changing their narrative on Boogie if the Kings keep winning) is so blinded by the W-L record that you simply can't separate the individual performance.
I've watched Boogie very closely for 7 straight years, and I've seen very little different this year in his game so far. (I'd be curious about Brick's take)

Yet, the TEAM feels different and is starting to defend and therefore win more.

Crazy! Who woulda thought that having teammates who can score and defend and a coach that isn't feuding with the players or front office makes a BIG difference?
 
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Blob,

Cousins has played very similar to this for years, you just haven't acknowledged it.
You can bark and scream all you want about your precious TS%!!!111!!!1 but the reality of the matter is that he fouled out in crunch time YET AGAIN, but somehow... some inexplicable way, the Kings actually won the game this time!

How is that possible?!?!!?
It MUST be some magical new thing Boogie did!

No, it's called HAVING TEAMMATES THAT CAN PLAY AND A COACH THAT CAN COACH.
That's it - no magical change in Boogie so far this year. He was even more dominant many times the past few years in losses, you just never noticed it because you have blinders on when the Kings lose (probably some internal self-defense mechanism of yours)

You are a textbook example of someone who (just like many sportswriters who soon will be changing their narrative on Boogie if the Kings keep winning) is so blinded by the W-L record that you simply can't separate the individual performance.
I've watched Boogie very closely for 7 straight years, and I've seen very little different this year in his game so far. (I'd be curious about Brick's take)

Yet, the TEAM feels different and is starting to defend and therefore win more.

Crazy! Who woulda thought that having teammates who can score and defend and a coach that isn't feuding with the players or front office makes a BIG difference?

Your observations about the role of new players and a new coach n our much improved play so far, I couldn't agree with more. But there is also some truth to Blob's views on Cousin's play so far. We have all seen him play for all these years, and seen him play outstanding offensive basketball, outstanding ISO one-on-one ball. Hi great ISO play has not lead to wins. He started to learn team play and I'm sure he will learn quickly how to win while being our main cog in good team play. In a way he hasn't had much chance to practice good team lay, but nevertheless he hasn't. Let's hope this growth continues.
 
Blob,

Cousins has played very similar to this for years, you just haven't acknowledged it.
You can bark and scream all you want about your precious TS%!!!111!!!1 but the reality of the matter is that he fouled out in crunch time YET AGAIN, but somehow... some inexplicable way, the Kings actually won the game this time!

How is that possible?!?!!?
It MUST be some magical new thing Boogie did!

No, it's called HAVING TEAMMATES THAT CAN PLAY AND A COACH THAT CAN COACH.
That's it - no magical change in Boogie so far this year. He was even more dominant many times the past few years in losses, you just never noticed it because you have blinders on when the Kings lose (probably some internal self-defense mechanism of yours)

You are a textbook example of someone who (just like many sportswriters who soon will be changing their narrative on Boogie if the Kings keep winning) is so blinded by the W-L record that you simply can't separate the individual performance.
I've watched Boogie very closely for 7 straight years, and I've seen very little different this year in his game so far. (I'd be curious about Brick's take)

Yet, the TEAM feels different and is starting to defend and therefore win more.

Crazy! Who woulda thought that having teammates who can score and defend and a coach that isn't feuding with the players or front office makes a BIG difference?

Who's barking and screaming? Your hyperbole weakens your position.

If you have watched him closely for 7 years, you may need to watch him closer. Boogie is in far better shape this season, down 20-30 pounds and taken care of his foot tendonitis. This was first apparent with Team USA and carried over to this season. That's when the narrative changed and my optimism over his future flipped. And I have been 100% consistent in this regard. I think behind the scenes Joerger was honest with his new superstar and said I need you to get lean and mean and healthy to take full advantage of your skills, and to Boogie's credit he has responded.

He's not lumbering. He's not trailing plays. The fact this is not obvious to you shows your observational powers are not as keen as you claim. His improved conditioning and health means he doesn't have to settle for poor shots. He can be more relentless and patient. His shot is sweeter. All of the reps have paid off. He has a better shooting touch. He's always been a very good shooter, a great shooter for a guy his size. But this year it looks like he's even more laser focused on making his outside shot with fundamentals to back it up.

It is not like his skill set has dramatically improved. I am not contending that. But his ability to execute has (reflected in 66% TS%) in the context of a high post system with selective low post opportunity to best exploit his skills. The bandwagon of fans who criticized the system last year contended Boogie was out of position, too often away from the low block. Where are those critics now? Boogie is feasting from the free throw to the top of the key with a live dribble, because we have a coach who knows to make best use of the most agile big man in the NBA. This is the drum I have been beating and in context of a player in peak fitness and health, the results speak themselves.

As far as teammates that can play, our starting guards are 35% FGs and Koufos isn't exactly killing it so far, though I think his role as pick setter and another line of defensive resistance is important to alleviate pressure of Boogie, and accordingly project Koufos as a starter for the rest of the season. Rudy is more featured in the offense now too. But based on talent in the starting line-up, there is not a dramatic gap between this year and last. So credit is due to coaching, system and said player for improved play (36 PER) and record (2-1) over small sample size.

Your analysis collapses like a house of cards to any fan with an astute eye.
 
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