Interesting Dilemma in the Final Three Games
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Looks like somebody only saw what he wanted to see.
At what point was Ron in the "flow of the game?" Was it his fadeaway threes? Or maybe it was the forcing in the post against Peja and West?
Shelden played in fourth quarter except the most important portion of it. In crunchtime? It was Mikki and Salmons heroically leading the way
. So we won a game with guys who in their primes are at best role players on a lottery team, while our best chance of moving up in the NBA world (Hawes) was languishing on the bench. Go Theus?
Don't call someone out lest they make you look like a fool.
At what point was Ron in the "flow of the game?" Was it his fadeaway threes? Or maybe it was the forcing in the post against Peja and West?
Shelden played in fourth quarter except the most important portion of it. In crunchtime? It was Mikki and Salmons heroically leading the way
. So we won a game with guys who in their primes are at best role players on a lottery team, while our best chance of moving up in the NBA world (Hawes) was languishing on the bench. Go Theus?Don't call someone out lest they make you look like a fool.
The level at which people complain truly astonishes me. A win against a quality opponent, with significant youth contributions? Check. There's no wat Theus would only play 5 so that internet fans can get their youth jones. Sometimes we need a little reality check.
I shudder to think what this board would have been if we were "fighting" for the overall first pick.
I shudder to think what this board would have been if we were "fighting" for the overall first pick.
What makes for an ill advised shot. One's that don't go in? But if the shot falls its not an ill advised shot? That was the only difference between Ron's and the others. After playing most of the game unselfishly, Ron, and yes Salmon's was a culprit too, began his usual, I'm going to win the game all by myself approach.
When Ron's shots fall, we win, when they don't, we lose. I, personaly would rather not depend on Ron's shooting as the deciding factor. Its not my intention to pick just on Artest. Salmon's can be just as big a culprit, as can Cisco, but to a lesser extent. Artest and Salmon's are both quilty of dribbling the ball on the perimiter till the shot clock is down to few seconds and then either taking a forced shot, or passing to someone else to take an even more forced shot. As someone once said, there's no I in the word team...
When Ron's shots fall, we win, when they don't, we lose. I, personaly would rather not depend on Ron's shooting as the deciding factor. Its not my intention to pick just on Artest. Salmon's can be just as big a culprit, as can Cisco, but to a lesser extent. Artest and Salmon's are both quilty of dribbling the ball on the perimiter till the shot clock is down to few seconds and then either taking a forced shot, or passing to someone else to take an even more forced shot. As someone once said, there's no I in the word team...
Salmons is going to be 29 a month into next season. He's not that young, and he's not a team player. Furthermore reading the tea leaves with Kevin going nowhere, ownership threatening to tie us to Ron long term, and Cisco coming on as some sort of leader, I am not at all sure Salmons is in the future plans here.
Well a lot of people who care about the franchise would have a fairly easy time sorting out the good from the bad in that situation -- the good being the #1 overall pick. The bad being a banal and worthless glorified summer league win. Because that is what we are in now -- summer league. There is no season for us. No point. We might as well be playing pickup ball for all the significance that winning has for us right now. Besides blowing draft position of course. Or helping our arch rivals' cause.
Why do you say Salmons is not a team player?? Recently it seems like he has gotten more assists and passes the ball when he knows another player has a better shot. I also like the fact that I feel he has grown as a player, he looks for the open man nore often now.I personally am a big fan of Salmons and love his defensive play. He may not be young, but he is still a good player.
I don't agree with that thought-just because he does not play as well when he does not start does not mean it is a concious effort on his part to play poorly. I agree that it may be a subconscious thing in which he is not trying to play worse, it just happens. I also feel that when he plays coming on the bench he still shoes a good defensive effort.Why would any player purposfully play lousy?? Sorry just feel like I have to defend the guy, he is one of my favorite players- he helped us in the beggining of the year when so many other player were injured.
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I personally don't hate Salmons. But as been pointed out, he is 29 yrs old. Yes he a very good defender, but on offense he tends to dominate the ball sometimes. His offense comes mostly from one on one play and penetrating to the basket. He's very efficient at it, but also uses most of the shot clock to do it. It doesn't lend itself to team play. He might be a valuable piece for another team thats trying to get over the hump, and for some reason my gut tells me he's going to be traded in the off season.
I don’t hate John, I just don’t like his attitude on the court/bench. I don’t like that he has to dominate the ball in order to be effective and once he gets it, it’s really hard for him to give it up…Didn't people knock on Kenny for saying that he liked to start and John almost said the same thing?
"It just felt good the last few games to be able to play, to be involved and feel like part of the system again."
Source: http://kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26825
You’re only involved if you make yourself involved. When you don’t seem to have half the intensity you had as a starter, how do you expect to play? Come in as a bench guy, give us a whole lot of energy and produce, but he doesn’t.
I’m not saying he didn’t do some great stuff when Ron and Mike were out. I even give him props when he decides to pass and make shots, but he doesn’t do that enough and I would think at his age, he would be more of a team guy on the court.
"It just felt good the last few games to be able to play, to be involved and feel like part of the system again."
Source: http://kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26825
You’re only involved if you make yourself involved. When you don’t seem to have half the intensity you had as a starter, how do you expect to play? Come in as a bench guy, give us a whole lot of energy and produce, but he doesn’t.
I’m not saying he didn’t do some great stuff when Ron and Mike were out. I even give him props when he decides to pass and make shots, but he doesn’t do that enough and I would think at his age, he would be more of a team guy on the court.
Salmons seems to be a team player if he starts; he doesn't seem to be a team player if he doesn't. He's very concerned with his self image as a starter, but that takes a back seat to how he can help this team win. He's the polar opposite of Garcia. A guy like Garcia takes the view that no matter what his role, he's going to figure out how to help this team win. A guy like Salmons thinks about winning only after his ego is mollified by his role on the team as a starter and his minutes and how many touches he gets and what others think of his game and whatever else can inflate his diminished ego.
Everyone here knows that I hate the Lakers. However, I refuse to accept the responsibility of giving the Lakers the top seed in the West based on our wins and losses in the last few games of the season.
Even though I hate the Lakers, if they end up as the top seed, it is because they earned the top seed.
Even though I hate the Lakers, if they end up as the top seed, it is because they earned the top seed.
People are so desperate to prove our "rebuilding" strategy correct that they will label anyone under 30 as "young". As John is all of 1 month younger than Ron, that distinction doesn't make much sense between them.
And John has carried the selfish label with him ever since Philly -- was why I did not want us to sign him. I had just about reached the point where I was willing to forgive that and advocate him as a cheap temporary patch in place of either Ron or Kevin going forward, when he put it on full display again.
And John has carried the selfish label with him ever since Philly -- was why I did not want us to sign him. I had just about reached the point where I was willing to forgive that and advocate him as a cheap temporary patch in place of either Ron or Kevin going forward, when he put it on full display again.
Be that as it may, there's no reason for a professional franchise to intentionally scheme, game plan, execute, a loss, regardless of the situation. On that we may have to agree to disagree. The wild card here is Artest, who would probably never rest if healthy (especially against a marquee opponent.) I think he'll be available for the next two games.
Had Beno not been here, had Bibby not recovered from his injury, maybe the organization would have started "developing youth" earlier in the season, and this would have been a different conversation.
Had Beno not been here, had Bibby not recovered from his injury, maybe the organization would have started "developing youth" earlier in the season, and this would have been a different conversation.
Since we have been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. There is absolutely no reason that the vets should be getting any more than a token 15 - 20 minutes a game. Let them play part of the first quarter and part of the third. Sheldon, Douby, Hawes, Garcia, Martin, and Beno should be playing 35+ minutes a game. Of course a byproduct of this is that we lose games. We do this, there is no downside. Everyone is happy. We get a better draft pick, the fans are happy because they get to root for a team that is playing hard without feeling guilty about morgaging the future of the franchise, the lakers dont get the first spot. But that isn't what happened. No one is advocating that the kings intentionally throw games. What the people who are angry at the team want is simply to play the kids that we do have. That is how you get a winning team in this league. Young talent needs to develop/ be evaluated by playing in real games. This is the time of year to do that. And we are failing miserably at that.
I never fail to be amazed by how stupid this whole enterprise is suppsoed to be. How mindless. The fans are supposed to act like idiots, cheer mindlessly, because, well, they are fans, and that's what they do. Thinking is a sign of a bad fan. The organization is supposed to leave everything on the line to win every single game, no matter how pernicious the effects, no matter how unimportant the game, or how little sense it makes for the future. Because somehow somewhere that's been written.
Its all an immensely simplistic and short sighted view of the purpose of the whole enterprise. The only acceptable purpose is to win today, this game, right now. And that's never the way it works, in life, sport, or anything else. Barring ridiculous luck, you plan for your future, or you do not have one.
The players have to come to play. Well...they don't think so. Some of ours only play when they want to despite the millions they are being paid. But in theory they have to come and bounce a ball. That's their contractural duty if nothing else. Everyone else, fans included, should be allowed to use their grey matter. To think, scheme, plot, plan, anticipate consequences and generally do anything else it takes to accomplish the real goal of this enterprise, which is not to win some meaningless game at the tail end of a lost season.
Its all an immensely simplistic and short sighted view of the purpose of the whole enterprise. The only acceptable purpose is to win today, this game, right now. And that's never the way it works, in life, sport, or anything else. Barring ridiculous luck, you plan for your future, or you do not have one.
The players have to come to play. Well...they don't think so. Some of ours only play when they want to despite the millions they are being paid. But in theory they have to come and bounce a ball. That's their contractural duty if nothing else. Everyone else, fans included, should be allowed to use their grey matter. To think, scheme, plot, plan, anticipate consequences and generally do anything else it takes to accomplish the real goal of this enterprise, which is not to win some meaningless game at the tail end of a lost season.
Thank you for seeing things my way.
No where did I imply fans should mindlessly support their team. I asserted that management should not go into a game with the intent to fail. This squad is not poor enough to do so. This team has beaten stronger teams throughout the year, and I don't see why this week should be any different. Asking a .500ish team to deviate from the norm is difficult to do without drawing the ire of a fan base.
As I stated earlier (which was glossed over), had the team taken earlier steps with player movement/injury, then we would be having a different conversation. But we are not, and you get the end result.
As many have stated before, our draft fate was sealed many months ago. There is no grand fluctuation that would net a much greater draft pick. Blame Petrie for finding Beno, blame Theus for getting a mis-grouped bunch of athletes to play over their collective heads at times, but spare me your vitriol in assuming that we are all mindless sheep for supporting whatever product is being placed on the floor.
No where did I imply fans should mindlessly support their team. I asserted that management should not go into a game with the intent to fail. This squad is not poor enough to do so. This team has beaten stronger teams throughout the year, and I don't see why this week should be any different. Asking a .500ish team to deviate from the norm is difficult to do without drawing the ire of a fan base.
As I stated earlier (which was glossed over), had the team taken earlier steps with player movement/injury, then we would be having a different conversation. But we are not, and you get the end result.
As many have stated before, our draft fate was sealed many months ago. There is no grand fluctuation that would net a much greater draft pick. Blame Petrie for finding Beno, blame Theus for getting a mis-grouped bunch of athletes to play over their collective heads at times, but spare me your vitriol in assuming that we are all mindless sheep for supporting whatever product is being placed on the floor.
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