Inside Play, Or Lack Thereof

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I'm just the messenger, so don't shoot me! :)

The Detroit game marked the NINTH straight game the Kings have been outscored inside the paint. Over that same stretch, teams have scored over 100pts in 6 of the 9 games, outrebounded us in 7 of the 9, outblocked us in 8 of 9, and shot a combined 46.4% against us (which would be 3rd worst in the league). In other words, not good.

The numbers:

3/30 DET OppPts:99 Rebs: -9 .488fg% Blks: -1 Points/Paint: -10
3/28 PHI OppPts:109 Rebs: +5 .479fg% Blks: -2 Points/Paint: -10
3/26 DEN OppPts:113 Rebs: -15 .542fg% Blks: -1 Points/Paint: -34
3/24 DAL OppPts:101 Rebs: +3 .435fg% Blks: +2 Points/Paint: -24
3/22 POR OppPts:93 Rebs: -11 .468fg% Blks: -12 Points/Paint: -6
3/20 GDS OppPts:104 Rebs: -9 .447fg% Blks: -2 Points/Paint: -2
3/19 LAC OppPts:107 Rebs: -7 .442fg% Blks: -6 Points/Paint: -12
3/17 GDS OppPts:100 Rebs: -8 .444fg% Blks: -2 Points/Paint: -16
3/15 ORL OppPts:94 Rebs: -6 .432fg% Blks: -2 Points/Paint: -6
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TOTALS: OppPts:102.2 Rebs:-6.3 .464fg% Blks:-2.9 Points/Paint:-13.3
LEAGUE RANK:___29th______30th__28th_____30th____________????
 
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Bricklayer said:
I'm just the messenger, so don't shoot me! :)

The Detroit game marked the NINTH straight game the Kings have been outscored inside the paint. Over that same stretch, teams have scored over 100pts in 6 of the 9 games, outrebounded us in 7 of the 9, outblocked us in 8 of 9, and shot a combined 46.4% against us (which would be 3rd worst in the league). In other words, not good.

The numbers:

3/30 DET OppPts:99 Rebs: -9 .488fg% Blks: -1 Points/Paint: -10
3/28 PHI OppPts:109 Rebs: +5 .479fg% Blks: -2 Points/Paint: -10
3/26 DEN OppPts:113 Rebs: -15 .542fg% Blks: -1 Points/Paint: -34
3/24 DAL OppPts:101 Rebs: +3 .435fg% Blks: +2 Points/Paint: -24
3/22 POR OppPts:93 Rebs: -11 .468fg% Blks: -12 Points/Paint: -6
3/20 GDS OppPts:104 Rebs: -9 .447fg% Blks: -2 Points/Paint: -2
3/19 LAC OppPts:107 Rebs: -7 .442fg% Blks: -6 Points/Paint: -12
3/17 GDS OppPts:100 Rebs: -8 .444fg% Blks: -2 Points/Paint: -16
3/15 ORL OppPts:94 Rebs: -6 .432fg% Blks: -2 Points/Paint: -6
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: OppPts:102.2 Rebs:-6.3 .464fg% Blks:-2.9 Points/Paint:-13.3
LEAGUE RANK:___29th______30th__28th_____30th____________????
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As you very well know - 83% of all stats are made up on the spot. :)
 
All Brad has to do is be a better defender and rebounder than Thomas, as he and Skinner should be the starters, at least next year (barring trade).
 
LPKingsFan said:
All Brad has to do is be a better defender and rebounder than Thomas, as he and Skinner should be the starters, at least next year (barring trade).
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again baring a trade I think it is exactly that fact that it will be the other way around. Miller and KT starting and Skins off the bench. Let me start by saying Miller is a Better bb player then KT. But a better defender and rebounder he is not. I like Skins off the bench, very up tempo player and can get into a game quick.
 
I can't agree more with regards to the game last night in Detroit. I was at the game and saw a VERY lackluster performance. The Kings had their opportunities to make some runs but the reason they did not was because of DEFENSIVE REBOUNDING. They had NO PRESENCE under the rim and could not get a rebound if their life depended on it. I was very disappointed. It's one thing to make it a game, it's another to not have anyone under the bucket get a board and tank in the last four minutes. It was only 8 points with 4 minutes left and then here came the offensive rebound/layup barrage that made it the score it was. Forever a fan, but a worried/disappointed one now. Don't expect much in the playoffs...but, that's what we've been saying for awhile. Another "there's always next year" season.

GO KINGS!!!
 
My Sentiments Exactly .... Thanx for this stat Brick

This has been my biggest BONE OF CONTENTION !!!

We may have gotten tuffer on defense (and we have) ... but, when the perimeter players play with the "OLE" attitude (how many times have you seen a King stop-turn-n-watch) and expect THE HELP of a teammate (not gonna be there all the time) ... the result is a dunk ... uncontested lay-up ... two-on-one ... all of which result in AN EASY BUCKET.
 
What is the solution? Kings management has replaced half of the team this year alone. The three new guys from Phily are supposed to be inside guys.


Are Bibby, Peja, and Mobley the problem?
 
Like Brian Skinner Has Been Saying ...

quick dog said:
What is the solution? Kings management has replaced half of the team this year alone. The three new guys from Phily are supposed to be inside guys.


Are Bibby, Peja, and Mobley the problem?
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You gotta wanna play defense .... not the whole game, just WHENEVER YOUR OPPONENT HAS THE BALL ... as cerebral as that sounds, the answer is within each of the King's players minds .... I truly believe that.
 
the kings got it from behind last night. we were smashed in the paint AND on the Offensive boards. im not too worried because the kings just got outworked and we were missing (2) 10+ rebound (2) 2+ shotblocking players a game.
 
Tobe fair the Kings have NOT had a chance to see where and how all the pices fit together yet. Brad has not really played since the trade and Bobby has not played at all since before DC was traded. Now admittedly Brad is not much of an insie player, but with him at the high post andSkinner of KT at the low post things WOULD be much different as it forces opposing 4s and 5s to come out and gaurd him or pay dearly. This will help open up the paint and with Brads passing ablity that means lots more opertunities both for the low post palyer and cutters like Cat, Bibby and Mo. I think one of the reasons Evans is having trouble since Webb left is his dependance on just these scenarios, when he cuts now it's usualy in traffic and that makes things a lot tougher for him. As much as I like Kenny he just does not have the rebounding and shot blocking the Kings HAVE to get from a starting PF in order to be effective with Brad on the court. I hope and pray that when Brad comes back they start Skinner at the 4 and paly Kenny long streces at the 4 and 3.
 
Bricklayer said:
I'm just the messenger, so don't shoot me! :)

The Detroit game marked the NINTH straight game the Kings have been outscored inside the paint. Over that same stretch, teams have scored over 100pts in 6 of the 9 games, outrebounded us in 7 of the 9, outblocked us in 8 of 9, and shot a combined 46.4% against us (which would be 3rd worst in the league). In other words, not good.

The numbers:

3/30 DET OppPts:99 Rebs: -9 .488fg% Blks: -1 Points/Paint: -10
3/28 PHI OppPts:109 Rebs: +5 .479fg% Blks: -2 Points/Paint: -10
3/26 DEN OppPts:113 Rebs: -15 .542fg% Blks: -1 Points/Paint: -34
3/24 DAL OppPts:101 Rebs: +3 .435fg% Blks: +2 Points/Paint: -24
3/22 POR OppPts:93 Rebs: -11 .468fg% Blks: -12 Points/Paint: -6
3/20 GDS OppPts:104 Rebs: -9 .447fg% Blks: -2 Points/Paint: -2
3/19 LAC OppPts:107 Rebs: -7 .442fg% Blks: -6 Points/Paint: -12
3/17 GDS OppPts:100 Rebs: -8 .444fg% Blks: -2 Points/Paint: -16
3/15 ORL OppPts:94 Rebs: -6 .432fg% Blks: -2 Points/Paint: -6
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: OppPts:102.2 Rebs:-6.3 .464fg% Blks:-2.9 Points/Paint:-13.3
LEAGUE RANK:___29th______30th__28th_____30th____________????
Click to expand...
Exactly the stats I've been watching^, and if you include all the games played since the trade it doesn't get much better. Brad isn't exactly a defensive stopper or a low post threat down low, so I'm not sure how he would help us in the pts in the paint stat. Plus when he comes back he will grab some of the rebounds(and minutes) the other guys have been getting. Our reb diff is just plain awful since the trade(pretty much worst in the league). Could this new team actually be a worse rebounding team then they were before? They have certainly not shown they are any better. They get outrebounded and outscored in the paint more consistantly than the team that took the floor at the start of the year. A -6.3 reb differential just sucks ***. I don't even want to get started on our opponents ppg or fg% allowed, in both categories our rankings have been diving south rapidly. Well, at least we are more athletic now...
 
HndsmCelt said:
Tobe fair the Kings have NOT had a chance to see where and how all the pices fit together yet. Brad has not really played since the trade and Bobby has not played at all since before DC was traded. Now admittedly Brad is not much of an insie player, but with him at the high post andSkinner of KT at the low post things WOULD be much different as it forces opposing 4s and 5s to come out and gaurd him or pay dearly. This will help open up the paint and with Brads passing ablity that means lots more opertunities both for the low post palyer and cutters like Cat, Bibby and Mo. I think one of the reasons Evans is having trouble since Webb left is his dependance on just these scenarios, when he cuts now it's usualy in traffic and that makes things a lot tougher for him. As much as I like Kenny he just does not have the rebounding and shot blocking the Kings HAVE to get from a starting PF in order to be effective with Brad on the court. I hope and pray that when Brad comes back they start Skinner at the 4 and paly Kenny long streces at the 4 and 3.
Click to expand...

To add to that. Brads passing ability will come nicely with KT or Skin. They are both athletic and can finish strong. Brad never had that luxery with Chris. Also Chris never had that luxury with Brad or Vlade. So that could be a whole new part of the game we haven't seen.
 
Folsom Al said:
You gotta wanna play defense
Click to expand...

Whos is responsible for making them play defense the entire game? I have been hinting at this the last few days but refuse to say the answer until after the season.
 
HndsmCelt said:
Tobe fair the Kings have NOT had a chance to see where and how all the pices fit together yet. .
Click to expand...

It's about today and now. The team is not out there playing to win for next year. Especially a team that has been a contender for the past few years.

Sure we all know off season moves are gonna / hopefully happen but as far as this year I am rooting for them, supporting them just being realistic in that they aren't going anywhere.

This roster as is now would be lucky to make the playoffs with a full season.
 
BigWaxer said:
It's about today and now. The team is not out there playing to win for next year. Especially a team that has been a contender for the past few years.

Sure we all know off season moves are gonna / hopefully happen but as far as this year I am rooting for them, supporting them just being realistic in that they aren't going anywhere.

This roster as is now would be lucky to make the playoffs with a full season.
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I hear ya. I WILL root for the Kings EVERY game but I am only looking at each game as it comes with no rxpectations for this season beyond the game at hand. I was simply adressing the issue of inside game, speculating that WHEN Brad reenters the line up it SHOULD improve the inside game, and explaing why.
 
If Skinner and Miller were healthy the numbers would look better, but not by much. Ultimately, I blame Petrie. I don't think he brings in the right personnel in regards to toughness, rebounding, and defense. Aside from 2002, those three things have been the Kings major shortcomings during the entire Petrie era. There's a reason for that. They were also shortcomings of the Blazers. Guys who do crash the boards (Pollard, Clark, J. Jackson, Wallace) get shipped out of here. Now, all of them had offensive pitfalls that made them woefully overmatched in our offense. But even a guy like Ben Wallace, who I consider one of the few NBA players who alters a game merely being on the court, would see only spot time on our team.

My alma mater runs the Princeton system, and its built to do exactly what it does: win a bunch of regular season games, maybe steal a round in the playoffs, and the first good coach you come up against hammers you. The Kings are a lot more free-flowing with it, particularly Bibby, but the principles are the same, and Petrie evaluates talent based on those principles.
 
Venom said:
Ultimately, I blame Petrie. I don't think he brings in the right personnel in regards to toughness, rebounding, and defense. Aside from 2002, those three things have been the Kings major shortcomings during the entire Petrie era. There's a reason for that. They were also shortcomings of the Blazers.
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The Petrie made Blazers were not tough....Are you joking? They were one of the best rebounding teams we have seen in the last 25 years. Buck Williams, Kersey, Duckworth, Drexler...all were excellent rebounders.
 
Venom said:
Ultimately, I blame Petrie..
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I think 99% of kingsfans would disagree with that. I have other blame to place but am waiting til the end of our season.

Petrie is the last person to blame. In fact he is regarded as one the best GM's if not the best GM active in the league today.
 
Heuge said:
The Petrie made Blazers were not tough....Are you joking? They were one of the best rebounding teams we have seen in the last 25 years. Buck Williams, Kersey, Duckworth, Drexler...all were excellent rebounders.
Click to expand...

Buck was legit. Kersey was alright, he'd at least mix it up inside at that point in his career. Duckworth was soft and a headcase. Drexler was A. not a Petrie acquisition, and B. notorious for failing to deliver on the big stage. . .hence, soft.

By the way, I'm not throwing out anything random here, that was the biggest knock on the Blazers during that era, same as the Kings.
 
Venom said:
Buck was legit. Kersey was alright, he'd at least mix it up inside at that point in his career. Duckworth was soft and a headcase. Drexler was A. not a Petrie acquisition, and B. notorious for failing to deliver on the big stage. . .hence, soft.
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That Blazer team was one of the last teams I would call soft, just look at there stats. And to add to that, I have never heard that label being attached to them until now.
 
Heuge said:
That Blazer team was one of the last teams I would call soft, just look at there stats. And to add to that, I have never heard that label being attached to them until now.
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No, I actually would agree that that was exactly their rep. Similar to Kings in a lot of ways. Lots of deep talent. Their best player was not QUITE the superstar you needed. A little soft and sloppy mentally as a team. Never quite got over the hump. But their softness was more mental than physical. Duckworth aside, who was a complete softy lardbucket, the rest of the Blazers were physical and athletic.

I have hinted around this subject for a few months now. Petrie is great. But he's got an M.O. and weaknesses like anyone else. The two teams he has helmed have both had similar success arcs and styles -- offensive oriented, but a little soft, and deep rather than carried by an All-time great. But Geoff's got a chance to change history this time. In Portland he basically got fired at the end of this season (or maybe the next). Adelman went with him. Drexler was traded a few months later by Whitsitt (who took over). I think Geoff may have taken a lesson form all of that, tried to get Rick secure, and then done the Webb trade himself (in Portland he was accused of being too passive/calm and letting the team erode away). Now comes a defining moment for him -- this is the first time since '98-'99 that he by all rights has a chance to shape the team from scratch and rebuild it from the ground up. Doesn't seem a good fit for his personality, but he did a good job last time. Now the questions become how much has he learned over the years, and will this one finally be the one to get over the top? Is he allergic to superstar type players, or just done his best with what he had? Does he go after enough defenders? And if he did would Rick play them? Lot of questions here.
 
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Bricklayer said:
No, I actually would agree that that was exactly their rep. Similar to Kings in a lot of ways. Lots of deep talent. Their best player was not QUITE the superstar you needed. A little soft and sloppy mentally as a team. Never quite got over the hump. But their softness was more mental than physical. Duckworth aside, who was a complete softy lardbucket, the rest of the Blazers were physical and athletic.

I have hinted around this subject for a few months now. Petrie is great. But he's got an M.O. and weaknesses like anyone else. The two teams he has helmed have both had similar success arcs and styles -- offensive oriented, but a little soft, and deep rather than carried by an All-time great. But Geoff's got a chance to change history this time.
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I don't see how you can call a team soft who went to the finals in 90 (losing to Isaiah's Pistons while beating the 90 Lakers), the WCF in 91 (losing to Magic's Lakers) and the finals again in 92 (Losing to MJ's Bulls). In 92 they actually lead the league in fewest Points allowed.

I just don't see your justification for calling them soft. The Kings of the last few years, yes, but them, I need to be convinced.
 
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Heuge said:
I don't see how you can call a team soft who went to the finals in 90 (losing to Isaiah's Pistons while beating the 90 Lakers), the WCF in 91 (losing to Magic's Lakers) and the finals again in 92 (Losing to MJ's Bulls). In 92 they actually lead the league in fewest Points allowed.
I just don't see your justification for calling them soft. The Kings of the last few years, yes, but them, I need to be convinced.
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We went to the "Finals" in '02 and would have in '03 without the Webb injury as well (also led the league in defense in '03). League was just balanced differently, that is all, and the big series was the WCF for us.

Portland lost the big ones, and really did not have that killer instinct. Same things we were rightly or wrongly accused of. They were beat by mentally tougher teams led by all time great competitors. Like us, just never felt like Portland had that. Talent, but nobody who would have run over their own mother to win that title at all costs. Good for their mothers, bad for your title hopes.
 
I just checked NBA.com and the only player the Blazers had in that era who was amongst the league leaders in rebounds was Buck Williams in 90-91 w/ 9.6. They never had a league leader in blocks. However, Porter and Drexler were annually amongst the leaders for steals.

I'm surprised you have not heard that criticism about them though. The first year the Bulls won a title the Blazers were a huge favorite to win, but a Lakers team with aging talent and a VERY young Divac beat them in the WCF. Lack of toughness and intensity were the main critique of that Blazers team. Clearly there have been softer teams than the Kings and Blazers. However, analyzing those two teams, and the 4-5 college teams that use the same system currently, you will notice some similarities. Petrie acquires guys to fit his system, and they do, and it is VERY successful in the regular season, but sees mixed results come playoff time. There is a reason that Petrie does not have a ring in almost two decades of being a GM, and Joe Dumars has one in about half the time. Bottom line, defensive talent will always beat offensive talent if they are of equal value. Look at Michigan State and Illinois right now, and to a certain extent Louisville.
 
Bricklayer said:
We went to the "Finals" in '02 and would have in '03 without the Webb injury as well (also led the league in defense in '03). League was just balanced differently, that is all, and the big series was the WCF for us.

Portland lost the big ones, and really did not have that killer instinct. Same things we were rightly or wrongly accused of. They were beat by mentally tougher teams led by all time great competitors. Like us, just never felt like Portland had that. Talent, but nobody who would have run over their own mother to win that title at all costs. Good for their mothers, bad for your title hopes.
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I guess success raises the bar to which you are judged. Losing to MJ, Isaiah, Magic is nothing to scoff at. They had to run over alot of really good teams and their mothers to get there. Just ask Barkley, Malone, KJ, stockton, Ewing, etc.
 
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