Imbuing a different mindset

[kingsboi]

Collision is a very good player, but he's the 3rd-4th best on any team in the NBA. Not sure how you can call him a good lead guard when he's missing the "lead" part. We saw it this year when we asked him to step up in the absence of Cuz and Gay. It's the same scenario we saw for Ray. We asked Ray to step up in the absence of Collison, and he didn't because he's not a starting PG just like how Collison isn't a player to lead a team.

Maybe we can be one of those teams that can make the playoffs without a lead guard.

I'm honestly very excited for Rondo. I only made those comments up there about him because it was only fair considering how Deron Williams has been talked about. If you want to call Williams gone and out, the same should be said for Rondo too. Both players are probably on their last boat. Rondo more than Williams.

I think you are being a bit too generous here. 3rd or 4th best? I'd say 5-6 deep rotation player is what he is and that's solid, he will contribute and knows his role no more no less, what you see is what you get with DC. If he is your 3rd of 4th best player then that means you don't have enough talent behind your 1 and 2.

 

[Warhawk]

Collision is a very good player, but he's the 3rd-4th best on any team in the NBA. Not sure how you can call him a good lead guard when he's missing the "lead" part. We saw it this year when we asked him to step up in the absence of Cuz and Gay. It's the same scenario we saw for Ray. We asked Ray to step up in the absence of Collison, and he didn't because he's not a starting PG just like how Collison isn't a player to lead a team.

Maybe we can be one of those teams that can make the playoffs without a lead guard.

Maybe you were using a different definition of "lead" then. I was using it in the "he's the PG, directing the team" meaning. Apparently you were using it in the "top player on the team" meaning. But, most teams don't have a DMC as their lead player and often rely more on guard play. Brick has posted several times about dominant teams not often having a PG be the star of the team. I think this is a team built much the same way (not saying we are dominant, just in team makeup/style). The PG has to be respectable (not a star) offensively and solid on defense. That is what we had in Collison and it was working.

This isn't a video game or all-star game. Some players have to be the role players.

 

[funkykingston]

Collision is a very good player, but he's the 3rd-4th best on any team in the NBA. Not sure how you can call him a good lead guard when he's missing the "lead" part. We saw it this year when we asked him to step up in the absence of Cuz and Gay. It's the same scenario we saw for Ray. We asked Ray to step up in the absence of Collison, and he didn't because he's not a starting PG just like how Collison isn't a player to lead a team.

Maybe we can be one of those teams that can make the playoffs without a lead guard.

I'm honestly very excited for Rondo. I only made those comments up there about him because it was only fair considering how Deron Williams has been talked about. If you want to call Williams gone and out, the same should be said for Rondo too. Both players are probably on their last boat. Rondo more than Williams.

Last year the best player on the NBA championship winning team was a point guard.

Before that? You'd have to go back to 1990 to a Isiah Thomas's Pistons to find an NBA champion whose best player was a PG.

Jordan and Pippen won with Craig Hodges, Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong, Randy Brown and Ron Harper as their starting PGs
LeBron and Wade had Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole
Shaq & Kobe (and Kobe/Gasol for that matter) had Derek Fisher
The Spurs have Parker and Boston had Rondo but I don't think many people would argue that either was clearly the best player on those teams
The Rockets had Kenny Smith
The Mavericks had an aging Jason Kidd and JJ Barea

None of those guys are scrubs. A few (Kidd, Rondo, Parker) were even really good players. But none carried their teams to rings. In fact, to a man they were pretty much guys who accepted their role and did their job consistently. Hit open shots, play defense, give the ball to the big dogs. That's what Collison does. And while hitting open shots will never be something he's great at - Rondo did pretty much the same thing during Boston's title run. Fill the holes, move the rock, play defense and do the little things. Sounds a lot like Collison to me.

Now obviously that puts the onus on Boogie (and to a lesser extent Rudy) to be THE guys that take the Kings places, but I'm okay with that.

A lot more championship teams have dominant big men than scoring PGs. For 25 years I've heard that the NBA is moving to being more and more guard oriented. I'd still roll with Boogie over Wall/Rose/Westbrook as my best player.

 

[206Fan]

Last year the best player on the NBA championship winning team was a point guard.

Before that? You'd have to go back to 1990 to a Isiah Thomas's Pistons to find an NBA champion whose best player was a PG.

Jordan and Pippen won with Craig Hodges, Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong, Randy Brown and Ron Harper as their starting PGs
LeBron and Wade had Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole
Shaq & Kobe (and Kobe/Gasol for that matter) had Derek Fisher
The Spurs have Parker and Boston had Rondo but I don't think many people would argue that either was clearly the best player on those teams
The Rockets had Kenny Smith
The Mavericks had an aging Jason Kidd and JJ Barea

None of those guys are scrubs. A few (Kidd, Rondo, Parker) were even really good players. But none carried their teams to rings. In fact, to a man they were pretty much guys who accepted their role and did their job consistently. Hit open shots, play defense, give the ball to the big dogs. That's what Collison does. And while hitting open shots will never be something he's great at - Rondo did pretty much the same thing during Boston's title run. Fill the holes, move the rock, play defense and do the little things. Sounds a lot like Collison to me.

Now obviously that puts the onus on Boogie (and to a lesser extent Rudy) to be THE guys that take the Kings places, but I'm okay with that.

A lot more championship teams have dominant big men than scoring PGs. For 25 years I've heard that the NBA is moving to being more and more guard oriented. I'd still roll with Boogie over Wall/Rose/Westbrook as my best player.

I said lead guard. If you read up there, I had a list of teams with their lead guards and not all of them were PGs.

2015- Curry
2014- Ginoboli/Parker
2013- Wade
2012- Wade
2011- Kidd/Terry
2010- Kobe
2009- Kobe
2008- Rondo
2007- Parker
2006- Wade

With the exception of Rondo in 2008, all of those players were the #1 or #2 for the team. They were the lead guards.

The Kings seriously lack one. Maybe Rondo can rise above all and show that he can get back to a top 10 PG form. Maybe Belinelli can somehow unexpectedly start leading the entire team to his best season in his career.

I think we have a very very good guard combo and lineup. I'd secretly argue top 3.

Rondo, Collison
McLemore Belinelli

However, what we're missing from that group is a lead guard. Every championship team had one.

Edit: We all have our own interpretations of what a lead guard is. Mines is a guard who can take over the offense and start leading his team as the #1 option when needed. It's a player that is a ++++ in running an offense and has no issue leading the rest of his teammates.

The main reason why I brought this up was because almost every playoff team in the last 3-4 years has had a lead guard. It's what made them so successful. It's no secret that the NBA is becoming more of a guard league. It's also arguable about why that is (ex: not enough dominant bigs, game is become faster, 3pters are the new face of the game, and etc). There are many reasons. There are teams that have gone deep in the playoffs without a lead guard, but can the Kings be THAT team? I hope so

 

[lawlman91]

I said lead guard. If you read up there, I had a list of teams with their lead guards and not all of them were PGs.

2015- Curry
2014- Ginoboli/Parker
2013- Wade
2012- Wade
2011- Kidd/Terry
2010- Kobe
2009- Kobe
2008- Rondo
2007- Parker
2006- Wade

With the exception of Rondo in 2008, all of those players were the #1 or #2 for the team. They were the lead guards.

The Kings seriously lack one. Maybe Rondo can rise above all and show that he can get back to a top 10 PG form. Maybe Belinelli can somehow unexpectedly start leading the entire team to his best season in his career.

I think we have a very very good guard combo and lineup. I'd secretly argue top 3.

Rondo, Collison
McLemore Belinelli

However, what we're missing from that group is a lead guard. Every championship team had one.

Edit: We all have our own interpretations of what a lead guard is. Mines is a guard who can take over the offense and start leading his team as the #1 option when needed. It's a player that is a ++++ in running an offense and has no issue leading the rest of his teammates.

The main reason why I brought this up was because almost every playoff team in the last 3-4 years has had a lead guard. It's what made them so successful. It's no secret that the NBA is becoming more of a guard league. It's also arguable about why that is (ex: not enough dominant bigs, game is become faster, 3pters are the new face of the game, and etc). There are many reasons. There are teams that have gone deep in the playoffs without a lead guard, but can the Kings be THAT team? I hope so

I would argue that minus ball-handling, Rudy can fill in the role of "lead guard" even if he is a forward. He seems to fit the mold of a perimeter-but-mostly-scores-on-the-inside kind of guard, which matches the roles of Wade, Kobe. All three can drive and finish well through contact, post up, hit mid-range pull-up jumpers, and are at least respectable from the 3.

The only thing holding us back from Rudy filling that lead guard position is the decisions of George Karl. Will be play PF? From the looks of it, probably.

 

[jdbraver]

I said lead guard. If you read up there, I had a list of teams with their lead guards and not all of them were PGs.

2015- Curry
2014- Ginoboli/Parker
2013- Wade
2012- Wade
2011- Kidd/Terry
2010- Kobe
2009- Kobe
2008- Rondo
2007- Parker
2006- Wade

With the exception of Rondo in 2008, all of those players were the #1 or #2 for the team. They were the lead guards.

The Kings seriously lack one. Maybe Rondo can rise above all and show that he can get back to a top 10 PG form. Maybe Belinelli can somehow unexpectedly start leading the entire team to his best season in his career.

I think we have a very very good guard combo and lineup. I'd secretly argue top 3.

Rondo, Collison
McLemore Belinelli

However, what we're missing from that group is a lead guard. Every championship team had one.

Edit: We all have our own interpretations of what a lead guard is. Mines is a guard who can take over the offense and start leading his team as the #1 option when needed. It's a player that is a ++++ in running an offense and has no issue leading the rest of his teammates.

The main reason why I brought this up was because almost every playoff team in the last 3-4 years has had a lead guard. It's what made them so successful. It's no secret that the NBA is becoming more of a guard league. It's also arguable about why that is (ex: not enough dominant bigs, game is become faster, 3pters are the new face of the game, and etc). There are many reasons. There are teams that have gone deep in the playoffs without a lead guard, but can the Kings be THAT team? I hope so

How many teams have a big like Cuz? Gotta play to your strengths. Not every team has a Jordan not every team has Shaq...

 

[funkykingston]

To me there are bigs, wings and PGs.

Point guards are asked to play a role very different than shooting guards whereas SGs and SFs play a very similar role with a slight difference in size being the only substantial difference.

I would agree that most great teams have had a 1-2 punch of a star big and a star wing. Are Cousins and Gay a good enough combo? We'll see.

But I like the Kings PG rotation. I do have concerns about their SG rotation, their deep big man depth and 3rd PG. But I think we'll see the Kings as a playoff team next year.

 

[lawlman91]

To me there are bigs, wings and PGs.

I agree. It would be great if this idea becomes more mainstream, since this is the truth. Then we diversify into types of bigs (stretch, post-up, blocking, or a combination), wings (shooting, slashing, ...) etc...

 

[randymoss1881]

To me there are bigs, wings and PGs.

Point guards are asked to play a role very different than shooting guards whereas SGs and SFs play a very similar role with a slight difference in size being the only substantial difference.

I would agree that most great teams have had a 1-2 punch of a star big and a star wing. Are Cousins and Gay a good enough combo? We'll see.

But I like the Kings PG rotation. I do have concerns about their SG rotation, their deep big man depth and 3rd PG. But I think we'll see the Kings as a playoff team next year.

YES!! Saved you the wait.

 

[206Fan]

I would argue that minus ball-handling, Rudy can fill in the role of "lead guard" even if he is a forward. He seems to fit the mold of a perimeter-but-mostly-scores-on-the-inside kind of guard, which matches the roles of Wade, Kobe. All three can drive and finish well through contact, post up, hit mid-range pull-up jumpers, and are at least respectable from the 3.

The only thing holding us back from Rudy filling that lead guard position is the decisions of George Karl. Will be play PF? From the looks of it, probably.

Gay looked very good under Karl as a point forward, so that's something to look forward to. I don't know if it was a fluke, but if he can lead the team the way he did under Karl, he's going to have one his best seasons in his career.

Rudy has had a very quiet overall career. If he can make that leap in the NBA by being an efficient and good point forward, he's going to be in the conversation next to the likes of Lebron, KD, and PG. Watching Rudy run the offense has been cringe worthy at times...

 

[bajaden]

Last year the best player on the NBA championship winning team was a point guard.

Before that? You'd have to go back to 1990 to a Isiah Thomas's Pistons to find an NBA champion whose best player was a PG.

Jordan and Pippen won with Craig Hodges, Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong, Randy Brown and Ron Harper as their starting PGs
LeBron and Wade had Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole
Shaq & Kobe (and Kobe/Gasol for that matter) had Derek Fisher
The Spurs have Parker and Boston had Rondo but I don't think many people would argue that either was clearly the best player on those teams
The Rockets had Kenny Smith
The Mavericks had an aging Jason Kidd and JJ Barea

None of those guys are scrubs. A few (Kidd, Rondo, Parker) were even really good players. But none carried their teams to rings. In fact, to a man they were pretty much guys who accepted their role and did their job consistently. Hit open shots, play defense, give the ball to the big dogs. That's what Collison does. And while hitting open shots will never be something he's great at - Rondo did pretty much the same thing during Boston's title run. Fill the holes, move the rock, play defense and do the little things. Sounds a lot like Collison to me.

Now obviously that puts the onus on Boogie (and to a lesser extent Rudy) to be THE guys that take the Kings places, but I'm okay with that.

A lot more championship teams have dominant big men than scoring PGs. For 25 years I've heard that the NBA is moving to being more and more guard oriented. I'd still roll with Boogie over Wall/Rose/Westbrook as my best player.

I agree 100%. To be honest, I think we get too caught up in, who plays what position. Winning teams need so called superstars to win, and it doesn't matter what position they play. However in most cases, big trumps small. But who ever the player is, and what ever position he plays, he needs a good supporting cast or he'and his team are going nowhere. Petrie once said, that chemistry is very important to winning. You have no idea how you got it when you have it, and you have no idea how to get it back when you lose it. So putting a winning team together is a crapshoot, and sometimes it's an accident of sorts. No one knew, and I mean no one, that the Warrior team in 1974 with Rick Barry would go on to win the championship. Shouldn't have happened, but it did.

So to think that you can't win a championship without an all star PG, or even a top ten PG is faulty thinking. The Kings came within and eyelash of winning the whole thing with Mike Bibby at the point. While I love Bibby, no one would confuse him with being one of the best PG's in the league. If you asked him to carry a team all by himself, he couldn't do it. But put him with Webber, Vlade and Peja to play off of, and he's solid. He certainly wasn't a scrub. Who was the great PG on the Celtics team with Parrish, Bird, and McHale? I would bet most people can't remember. Let me help out those that don't remember. Dennis Johnson! Who was a great defender and averaged around 5 apg for his career. But you know who led the team in assists for the Celtics? Some guy named Larry Bird who averaged over 6 apg for his career. I think you see my point...

 

[TheJewishKing]

To me there are bigs, wings and PGs.

Point guards are asked to play a role very different than shooting guards whereas SGs and SFs play a very similar role with a slight difference in size being the only substantial difference.

I would agree that most great teams have had a 1-2 punch of a star big and a star wing. Are Cousins and Gay a good enough combo? We'll see.

But I like the Kings PG rotation. I do have concerns about their SG rotation, their deep big man depth and 3rd PG. But I think we'll see the Kings as a playoff team next year.

I am certainly consenting with your comment, I think that we are very settled at the PG spot, I fail to see why people worry about this spot, I personally reckon that we have the best PG backup in the league, and one of the smartest point guards in the game thus far, Rajon Rondo is really an artist, his playing style is genuinely art, his only limitation really is his attitude, but I believe that it won't be a problem for us this season as he would probably like to clear his "problematic" character and rehabilitate his reputation, and I sincerely believe that the fact that one of his best friend will be playing along him will only make the transition to be a "king" easier.
Rondo only needs to manage the game right, and fortunately he does it just great, he doesn't need to do anything he is not good at, we have plenty of shooters to take the shot instead of him, he only needs to make sure he arranges a decent opportunity for a proper shot to his teammates, I can't really see how we fail with Rajon to be honest.

As for Collison, this guy is probably the best asset we will have from our bench, if he will show maturity and will be able to put aside the fact that he is no longer a starter and act like a professional (which I believe he will) then I can't see any reason for him to falter in leading the second squad off the bench, he is a very skilled and disciplined player, if his mindset will be on point with the rest of the team he and our team will succeed big time.

Now, I also acquiesce with the fact that our weakest position is the SG spot, I appreciaite McLemore but he is not exactly one of the "lions" in the league, I think that his substitute is a decent player (Belinelli), but McLemore will have to prove that he is consistant this season, this young guy has a lot of unfulfilled potential, but he will have to work hard, so he can prove everyone that he is nor inferior to any SG in this league which will also prove that the Kings shooting guards are not inferior to any shooting guards in the league.

Kings fans have been through "torments" (harsh word to choose) in the last decade, the team has plummetted to the bottom of the league really, was perceived as one of the weakest teams in the league, but this year as I proclaimed before we have a chance to make something bigger, we can start something that will last for a while, let's not miss this precious opportunity to rise.

 

[Dank]

Wrong.

A whole TON of things would have to go wrong for the Kings NOT to make the playoffs.

-Rondo would have to rebel against Karl. Not likely given that Karl gives his PGs a lot of freedom, and Rondo needs to repair his image.

-Cousins and Karl would have to act like children and refuse to get along. Not likely with Vlade in the room.

-WCS would have to be a total bust. Not likely. He's probably the most bust-proof lottery pick. His strengths easily translate to the NBA.

-The team would have to not gel. Very unlikely given all the new vet additions. The knuckleheads have been shipped out.

If all of those things go wrong, we don't make the playoffs.

If most of them go right, we do.

I think your being way to much of a homer and not a realist at all if you think this. Yes the Kings got significantly better but you need to be aware of how good all of our competition is as well.

 

[Dank]

The Kings have bigger problems than any of those teams. I think we will make the playoffs, but it's not going to be easy. I think if every single team has a good and healthy season at their max, we are only the 3rd best team. Pelicans and Mavs would be better than us.

I think you're buying really low on the Mavs.

PG- Deron Williams, Devin Harris, JJ Barrea, Raymond Felton
SG- Wesley Matthews, John Jenkins
SF- Chandler Parsons, Justin Anderson, Jeremy Evans
PF- Dirk Nowitzki, JaValee McGee, Dwight Powell
C- ZaZa Pachulia , Samuel Dalembert

Then they have a bunch of random young guys.

I think their sole season would depend on Dirk. If he's injured, they're a 20W team.

I agree with the statement in bold and I agree with the second thought as well just with the Jazz instead of the Mavs. Deron Williams is really washed and now a below average PG, Matthews is coming off of the worst injury in basketball and wont even be playing till December at the earliest, Parsons will be good, Dirk cant guard the side of a barn and the rest of the frontcourt is laughable.

 

[The Hammer]

I think your being way to much of a homer and not a realist at all if you think this. Yes the Kings got significantly better but you need to be aware of how good all of our competition is as well.

Please go through my post point by point and break down where my logic fails. On which points are they more unlikely to fail?

And even if brief, please provide reasoning to support your critique, as I did.

I think you are guilty of foggy thinking, without clearly observing the actual facts of what happened this offseason, basing it mostly on the negative emotional response of "there's no way we can improve that much, look at our history". Our history is irrelevant to our future since many of those pieces are gone, and there will be no catastrophic event like the firing of Malone, with Vlade in charge.

There is zero chance I make this type of prediction in years prior to last year. I'm very realistic about the Kings prospects. I would NEVER consider putting money on the over win total in ANY other year except now.

 

[Dank]

Wrong.

A whole TON of things would have to go wrong for the Kings NOT to make the playoffs.

-Rondo would have to rebel against Karl. Not likely given that Karl gives his PGs a lot of freedom, and Rondo needs to repair his image.

-Cousins and Karl would have to act like children and refuse to get along. Not likely with Vlade in the room.

-WCS would have to be a total bust. Not likely. He's probably the most bust-proof lottery pick. His strengths easily translate to the NBA.

-The team would have to not gel. Very unlikely given all the new vet additions. The knuckleheads have been shipped out.

If all of those things go wrong, we don't make the playoffs.

If most of them go right, we do.

-Ur right in that Rondo more than likely isnt going to rebel against Karl but Rondo doesn't have to rebel against Karl to not have an effective season, how good he plays or doesn't play doesn't have anything to do with whether or not he rebels against Karl.
-The relationship this summer has been terrible, dude made calls to try and trade him so to assume their going to automatically be all buddy buddy is naive. And currently theri replationship is not so great.
-Whether WCS is a bust or not more than likely wont have much effect on the season/playoffs at all as coach has been quoted as saying before the draft that he doesnt expect any rookie we draft to play more than about 20 minutes a game and also simply because he is a rookie and needs time to develop so we don't know how good he will be or even when that is
-We turned over the majority of the roster do you really think their just gonna auto-gel right out of the gate?
.
.
We may or may not make playoffs but these points that you have listed arent the set measurments of whether or not we make it, as in Rondo could be a team player and not but heads with Karl at all, Cousins and Karl could repair their relationship and get along just fine, WCS could make an immediate impact and take little time to develop and the team could gel fast and they could STILL not make the playoffs and it would be because of the competition being better not because of how good we are or arent. I think this team for sure has a chance at playoffs but their are just so many question marks I cant be for sure about anything. This team could win 45 games and make the playoffs, implode by January or anything in between.

 

[Dank]

Not sure if you are being serious, but Trey Burke scored about 12.8 points per game last season, how can you compare him to Ray McCallum, do me a favor here man.... I never said he is a legend but he is a young talent with potential.

With over 300 players and 30 teams i never blame someone when they are ill informed about a particular layer especially when that makes so little headlines but Trey Burke is terrible with a capitol T. He shot 36%!! from the field last year and needed 13.2 attempts per game to get that 12.8 and he cant play D or really do much of anything at all well. He had a good second half of his rookie season but its been all downhill since then.

 

[The Hammer]

-Ur right in that Rondo more than likely isnt going to rebel against Karl but Rondo doesn't have to rebel against Karl to not have an effective season, how good he plays or doesn't play doesn't have anything to do with whether or not he rebels against Karl.
-The relationship this summer has been terrible, dude made calls to try and trade him so to assume their going to automatically be all buddy buddy is naive. And currently theri replationship is not so great.
-Whether WCS is a bust or not more than likely wont have much effect on the season/playoffs at all as coach has been quoted as saying before the draft that he doesnt expect any rookie we draft to play more than about 20 minutes a game and also simply because he is a rookie and needs time to develop so we don't know how good he will be or even when that is
-We turned over the majority of the roster do you really think their just gonna auto-gel right out of the gate?
.
.
We may or may not make playoffs but these points that you have listed arent the set measurments of whether or not we make it, as in Rondo could be a team player and not but heads with Karl at all, Cousins and Karl could repair their relationship and get along just fine, WCS could make an immediate impact and take little time to develop and the team could gel fast and they could STILL not make the playoffs and it would be because of the competition being better not because of how good we are or arent. I think this team for sure has a chance at playoffs but their are just so many question marks I cant be for sure about anything. This team could win 45 games and make the playoffs, implode by January or anything in between.

If you think all these things can happen and we still don't make the playoffs, that is where you and I differ. I think you are not seeing the talent and potential in this team. Those things happening would unlock all the potential this team has. Those are all we need. And to avoid serious injuries. You're telling me if we play to the level of our talent that we don't finish ahead of the Mavs???!

 

[Dank]

If you think all these things can happen and we still don't make the playoffs, that is where you and I differ. I think you are not seeing the talent and potential in this team. Those things happening would unlock all the potential this team has. Those are all we need. And to avoid serious injuries. You're telling me if we play to the level of our talent that we don't finish ahead of the Mavs???!

I think its possible but not cause of us but more becuase of how well our competiton may be playing. woah woah woah hold up i defiantly Don't think the Mavs will be better than us, their roster is super stripped down and there's a 10% chance their better than us. I never said I think the Mavs will be better.

 

[Dank]

If you think all these things can happen and we still don't make the playoffs, that is where you and I differ. I think you are not seeing the talent and potential in this team. Those things happening would unlock all the potential this team has. Those are all we need. And to avoid serious injuries. You're telling me if we play to the level of our talent that we don't finish ahead of the Mavs???!

The competition im refering to is The Jazz, Pellies, and Suns.

 

[Sac.Kings]

The competition im refering to is The Jazz, Pellies, and Suns.

The Suns got worse this past off-season and the Jazz lost their starting PG. I don't view them as competition. Only the Pelicans have a similar talent level. The Jazz have no star but are well coached and the Suns are in disarray. They gambled on Aldridge and lost.

 

[Kingster]

It's all about Cousins and Karl and the injury factor. If it really is a team and not a collection of individuals, and the major players stay away from injury, it seems like a good shot for the playoffs. If the Cousins-Karl drama reasserts itself, then we'll talking about a Cousins trade or a Karl firing instead of the playoffs.

 

[The Hammer]

The competition im refering to is The Jazz, Pellies, and Suns.

Ok, but my statement still applies. If we play to the level of our talent, which is the more likely scenario at this point than not, then you think those teams, if they play to the level of their talent, will be better than us. That is what you are saying, as far as I can tell, and that is where I disagree.

Therefore, I stand by my original claim, that a whole set of things must go WRONG for us NOT to make the playoffs, rather than being on the outside looking in, and hoping unlikely things go right. We are on the inside looking out now. We control our destiny, we have the talent and experience, and leadership now, to do so. This is not being a homer. This actually happened. I don't go around claiming this every offseason. In the past few years, I knew we'd be bad (except last year when I saw potential), and I wanted us to be bad. I'm the one who coined the phrases "woss" and "lin". That was me. Pulling for losses to get better draft position, because that's what we needed. I've always been very realistic about our chances. I think you are still just finding excuses to not get your hopes up, to play it safe emotionally, as is so often the case with pessimistic people. It's more about you and your emotional safety than an accurate assessment of the situation.

If all said teams play to the level of their talent. We'll be competing with the Pels and one of the inferior Mavs/Jazz/Suns for the 7th/8th seed, and we'll take the 7th/8th seed. If we really come together and all the positive changes snowball on each other and players play ABOVE their talent level (something Adelman and Petrie's teams consistently did), it's not inconceivable that we win 54 games and lock in the 6th seed, and maybe make some noise in the playoffs.

If we do indeed take the 7th/8th seed this year. Next year, seriously, look out. We'll be a team on the rise, with experience, already gelled, and Cousins even better. Next year we are 4th/5th seed minimum. Mark my words.

Year after that is a legitimate title run. Barring injuries, that is the most likely scenario of all possible outcomes.

And as far as your statement about the current nature of Cousins and Karl's relationship... that is PURE speculation. And in fact the information we have, if Vlade is to be believed, indicates otherwise: that things are getting better between them. And if you can read body language, the pic Cuz put out with his arm around Karl and Vlade is not a picture of men who refuse to get along professionally. Your claims really sound like a reach, and almost like you want to believe irrationally negative press.

 

[Dank]

Ok, but my statement still applies. If we play to the level of our talent, which is the more likely scenario at this point than not, then you think those teams, if they play to the level of their talent, will be better than us. That is what you are saying, as far as I can tell, and that is where I disagree.

Therefore, I stand by my original claim, that a whole set of things must go WRONG for us NOT to make the playoffs, rather than being on the outside looking in, and hoping unlikely things go right. We are on the inside looking out now. We control our destiny, we have the talent and experience, and leadership now, to do so. This is not being a homer. This actually happened. I don't go around claiming this every offseason. In the past few years, I knew we'd be bad (except last year when I saw potential), and I wanted us to be bad. I'm the one who coined the phrases "woss" and "lin". That was me. Pulling for losses to get better draft position, because that's what we needed. I've always been very realistic about our chances. I think you are still just finding excuses to not get your hopes up, to play it safe emotionally, as is so often the case with pessimistic people. It's more about you and your emotional safety than an accurate assessment of the situation.

If all said teams play to the level of their talent. We'll be competing with the Pels and one of the inferior Mavs/Jazz/Suns for the 7th/8th seed, and we'll take the 7th/8th seed. If we really come together and all the positive changes snowball on each other and players play ABOVE their talent level (something Adelman and Petrie's teams consistently did), it's not inconceivable that we win 54 games and lock in the 6th seed, and maybe make some noise in the playoffs.

If we do indeed take the 7th/8th seed this year. Next year, seriously, look out. We'll be a team on the rise, with experience, already gelled, and Cousins even better. Next year we are 4th/5th seed minimum. Mark my words.

Year after that is a legitimate title run. Barring injuries, that is the most likely scenario of all possible outcomes.

And as far as your statement about the current nature of Cousins and Karl's relationship... that is PURE speculation. And in fact the information we have, if Vlade is to be believed, indicates otherwise: that things are getting better between them. And if you can read body language, the pic Cuz put out with his arm around Karl and Vlade is not a picture of men who refuse to get along professionally. Your claims really sound like a reach, and almost like you want to believe irrationally negative press.

-yes thats correct, I can see us being better than the Suns and defiantly the Mavs, but I dont think we will be better than the Jazz. They are a solid team and IMO you are underestimating them. After the all-star break last year they had a top 5 NBA defense and a top 8 record in the entire league they were rolling and they didn't turn over half their roster like we did. The Kings are more talented on paper but on the court I don't think so.
.
- You may be right to an extent but I follow all 30 teams in the NBA and when I ask myself to try to be as unbias as I can about who I think is gonna finish the season with more wins I think it will more than likely be Utah but could be Sacramento. Just my personal option but I think that the 2 teams are close enough to each other that if someone thinks otherwise I don't fault them at all.
.
-When I say a lot of things would have to go right for us to make the playoffs im refering to my worries over the possible theater production of Rondo/DMC/Karl, our still horrid perimeter defense, if we can stay healthy this year and how much Rondo will or will not help us.
.
- Pure specualtion? Where have u been this summer? As much as I want to deny that myself it has been reported by very reliable sources and is common knowledge nowadays. I hope that's true but we dont know either way.
.
- Lol im believing the truth

 

[The Hammer]

- Pure specualtion? Where have u been this summer? As much as I want to deny that myself it has been reported by very reliable sources and is common knowledge nowadays. I hope that's true but we dont know either way.

- Lol im believing the truth

You're not a very good arguer. "we don't know either way"... followed by "I'm believing the truth"... So, you're believing the truth of what we don't know either way?

Also, you didn't read my comment on Cuz/Karl's relationship. I said their relationship right now. I'm not holding on to past conflicts, and from what we can see now, they aren't either. Again, this is the present, the most recent set of information. You are assuming there has been zero change or communication or development in their relationship since the trade rumors. There is zero chance that that is the situation.

 

[Dank]

You're not a very good arguer. "we don't know either way"... followed by "I'm believing the truth"... So, you're believing the truth of what we don't know either way?

Also, you didn't read my comment on Cuz/Karl's relationship. I said their relationship right now. I'm not holding on to past conflicts, and from what we can see now, they aren't either. Again, this is the present, the most recent set of information. You are assuming there has been zero change or communication or development in their relationship since the trade rumors. There is zero chance that that is the situation.

Take what im saying out of context much??
-Its true, we don't know either way if Karl and Boogie are repairing their relationship
-Yes the truth that Karl made calls looking to trade Boogie, that's the truth and its common knowledge at this point
-Have you followed Boogie's career, dude holds more grudges than any other player I know of I just hope he has matured out of that.
-Zero % chance? Are u sure its really zero?

If Allen Iverson and Larry Brown could co-exsist I believe Boogie and Karl could to.

 

[bajaden]

Take what im saying out of context much??
-Its true, we don't know either way if Karl and Boogie are repairing their relationship
-Yes the truth that Karl made calls looking to trade Boogie, that's the truth and its common knowledge at this point
-Have you followed Boogie's career, dude holds more grudges than any other player I know of I just hope he has matured out of that.
-Zero % chance? Are u sure its really zero?

If Allen Iverson and Larry Brown could co-exsist I believe Boogie and Karl could to.

Actually, if were being honest, we have no proof that Karl called anyone about trading Cousins. The only thing that appears to have some credence is that Karl explored the idea within the organization. Probably looking for support. For there to be some evidence of his making a call, you'd have to have another teams GM verify that Karl called him about trading Cousins. So far, I haven't seen that. All I've see and heard are rumors to such. I'm always amazed how rumors suddenly become fact. I guess if you repeat a rumor enough times, it becomes true.

I do agree with your last sentence. I think Karl and Cousins will work it out, and, if they start winning, they'll become best of friends.......

 

[Kingsgurl]

Am I the only one who finds this conversation to be extremely ironic, considering it's in the "Imbuing a different mindset" thread? Seems like some people don't want to let go of the negativity.

 

[The Hammer]

Am I the only one who finds this conversation to be extremely ironic, considering it's in the "Imbuing a different mindset" thread? Seems like some people don't want to let go of the negativity.

No. You are not.

 

[VF21]

I think your being way to much of a homer and not a realist at all if you think this. Yes the Kings got significantly better but you need to be aware of how good all of our competition is as well.

I think Kings fans have a right to be homers if they choose to do so. And who are you to decide someone isn't enough of a realist? If you cannot present an argument without using insults and condescending commentary, you really aren't bringing much to the table.

VF21 out...