If Petrie Makes the Pick....

[Kingster]

I'm with you on this one. I'd love to be a fly in the room when those interviews take place, and I'm sure they will. I think Vivek is going to be very hands on in certain areas. He has a reputation for being an innovator, so it should be very interesting to watch the progress.

The more I think about the pitfalls of keeping Petrie through the draft, the more I hope Vivek will announce a GM the day that escrow closes - May 31. If someone told you that you could buy the draft list of the San Antonio Spurs before the draft, or you could keep Petrie, which would you choose?

 

[Kingster]

yeah, because grant ****ing napear is the altar at which all creative basketball minds worship...



grant likes to stir up ****. that's it. that's all. nothing to see here, people...

Look, you may not like his opinions, but it's irrefutable that he knows more about the goings on of the Kings than you, I, or anyone else on this board. So you may not agree with conclusions, like keeping Tyreke over Cousins, but the statement that Tyreke doesn't want to play with Cousins should be taken very seriously.

 

[Padrino]

Look, you may not like his opinions, but it's irrefutable that he knows more about the goings on of the Kings than you, I, or anyone else on this board. So you may not agree with conclusions, like keeping Tyreke over Cousins, but the statement that Tyreke doesn't want to play with Cousins should be taken very seriously.

why? just because grant said it? again:



look, here's the deal, friend: it's radio. you have to separate grant the company man who may know a thing or two about the goings-on of the sacramento kings from grant the fiery shock jock-wannabe who's just trying to keep his listeners tuned in. in a media-saturated world where the internet and television dominate attention spans, how do you think radio hosts survive? they create binaries. why talk about how cousins and evans might coexist and dominate for years to come when pitting one against the other draws so many more listeners?

will the kings re-sign tyreke evans? will they trade demarcus cousins? these are questions on the minds of most kings fans, no matter what side of those questions an individual might fall on. but the simplest answer (that is, re-signing evans and retaining cousins) is not a satisfying radio answer, because it doesn't allow listeners/callers to take sides. grant's no fool. he's been in this business for a long time now. he knows how to keep the lines burning even as fewer people (particularly younger people) are flocking to sports radio programs...

 

[Gary]

why? just because grant said it? again:



look, here's the deal, friend: it's radio. you have to separate grant the company man who may know a thing or two about the goings-on of the sacramento kings from grant the fiery shock jock-wannabe who's just trying to keep his listeners tuned in. in a media-saturated world where the internet and television dominate attention spans, how do you think radio hosts survive? they create binaries. why talk about how cousins and evans might coexist and dominate for years to come when pitting one against the other draws so many more listeners?

will the kings re-sign tyreke evans? will they trade demarcus cousins? these are questions on the minds of most kings fans, no matter what side of those questions an individual might fall on. but the simplest answer (that is, re-signing evans and retaining cousins) is not a satisfying radio answer, because it doesn't allow listeners/callers to take sides. grant's no fool. he's been in this business for a long time now. he knows how to keep the lines burning even as fewer people (particularly younger people) are flocking to sports radio programs...

I do trust Grant when it comes to stuff like that. If it's true (not saying I believe it 100%) I don't believe we will re-sign Evans. He's going on with his 5th year, and blame it all on the coaches and instability, but Evans should have shown major improvement at PG or SG if he were as good as we all though he could be after his rookie year.

I would rather keep Cousins over Evans 100 times out of 100.

 

[Padrino]

I do trust Grant when it comes to stuff like that. If it's true (not saying I believe it 100%) I don't believe we will re-sign Evans. He's going on with his 5th year, and blame it all on the coaches and instability, but Evans should have shown major improvement at PG or SG if he were as good as we all though he could be after his rookie year.

I would rather keep Cousins over Evans 100 times out of 100.

he has improved, and it's been considerable improvement, i might add. it's just that his detractors either are simply unable to see it or flat out refuse to see it. he's shooting career high percentages from the field and from 3. his jump shot has improved by leaps and bounds. he's a better off-the-ball player than he was his rookie season. he's improved in the open court, and in the pick-and-roll (though we rarely got to see the latter under keith smart). turnovers are down. and scoring may be down, but rebounds and assists are about the same when considering the significant decrease in minutes per game (37 his rookie season, 31 this past season). if a new head coach treats him like a high-usage player again, rather than alienate him from his own talents, then these improvements will likely yield even more impressive results...

 

[Section 101]

he has improved, and it's been considerable improvement, i might add. it's just that his detractors either are simply unable to see it or flat out refuse to see it. he's shooting career high percentages from the field and from 3. his jump shot has improved by leaps and bounds. he's a better off-the-ball player than he was his rookie season. he's improved in the open court, and in the pick-and-roll (though we rarely got to see the latter under keith smart). turnovers are down. and scoring may be down, but rebounds and assists are about the same when considering the significant decrease in minutes per game (37 his rookie season, 31 this past season). if a new head coach treats him like a high-usage player again, rather than alienate him from his own talents, then these improvements will likely yield even more impressive results...

While I agree with your statement on his improvement, it can also be that his improved numbers were in part due to his decreased minutes.

 

[Gary]

he has improved, and it's been considerable improvement, i might add. it's just that his detractors either are simply unable to see it or flat out refuse to see it. he's shooting career high percentages from the field and from 3. his jump shot has improved by leaps and bounds. he's a better off-the-ball player than he was his rookie season. he's improved in the open court, and in the pick-and-roll (though we rarely got to see the latter under keith smart). turnovers are down. and scoring may be down, but rebounds and assists are about the same when considering the significant decrease in minutes per game (37 his rookie season, 31 this past season). if a new head coach treats him like a high-usage player again, rather than alienate him from his own talents, then these improvements will likely yield even more impressive results...

At the end of the year (this year) his FG% - 3pt% got a LOT better, but in Evans case I want to see this for an entire year. For some reason with this team we see improvements at the end of each year that don't carry over to the following year. Not sure why though.

I figure 5 years will be enough to figure it out. If he doesn't do much this year or does much of the same then it would be time to part ways. Maybe a trade deadline trade or something.

 

[Padrino]

While I agree with your statement on his improvement, it can also be that his improved numbers were in part due to his decreased minutes.

possible, but unlikely, given that 'reke was still taking about the same number of 3's per game in these reduced minutes (as a result of being pushed off-ball much of the time), and his shooting percentages were still climbing. his lack of an outside shot dragged his percentages down in years past, but with those numbers improving under less favorable conditions for tyreke, the statistics bear out my assertion...

regardless, i find your point is irrelevant. on a young, growing team that is at a lack for top shelf talent, you don't marginalize a player with tyreke's potential in favor of lesser talents. you grant that player the minutes necessary to expedite his improvement. tyreke's per 36 numbers still suggest that he could very well be on an all-star trajectory, particularly if franchise conditions improve under new ownership, management, and coaching, as we all believe they will...

 

[Padrino]

At the end of the year (this year) his FG% - 3pt% got a LOT better, but in Evans case I want to see this for an entire year. For some reason with this team we see improvements at the end of each year that don't carry over to the following year. Not sure why though.

I figure 5 years will be enough to figure it out. If he doesn't do much this year or does much of the same then it would be time to part ways. Maybe a trade deadline trade or something.

you people baffle me. tyreke did do it for an entire year. are you blind, sir?!

tyreke evans' '11-'12 3-pt. % - .202 (20-99)
tyreke evans' '12-'13 3-pt. % - .338 (45-133)

in more attempts per game, tyreke hit a significantly greater percentage of his three pointers...

 

[Big Cuz 15]

At the end of the year (this year) his FG% - 3pt% got a LOT better, but in Evans case I want to see this for an entire year. For some reason with this team we see improvements at the end of each year that don't carry over to the following year. Not sure why though.

I figure 5 years will be enough to figure it out. If he doesn't do much this year or does much of the same then it would be time to part ways. Maybe a trade deadline trade or something.

yeah, if we had some coaches that understood his talents and knew how to maximize it. there would not even be this discussion. they put the ball in our little pizza guy over reke. nobody is that stupid right? yeah, there is.. his name is smart. my belief is that magoofs did this to destroy reke's value so they can try to resign him on the cheap.

 

[Kingster]

why? just because grant said it? again:



look, here's the deal, friend: it's radio. you have to separate grant the company man who may know a thing or two about the goings-on of the sacramento kings from grant the fiery shock jock-wannabe who's just trying to keep his listeners tuned in. in a media-saturated world where the internet and television dominate attention spans, how do you think radio hosts survive? they create binaries. why talk about how cousins and evans might coexist and dominate for years to come when pitting one against the other draws so many more listeners?

will the kings re-sign tyreke evans? will they trade demarcus cousins? these are questions on the minds of most kings fans, no matter what side of those questions an individual might fall on. but the simplest answer (that is, re-signing evans and retaining cousins) is not a satisfying radio answer, because it doesn't allow listeners/callers to take sides. grant's no fool. he's been in this business for a long time now. he knows how to keep the lines burning even as fewer people (particularly younger people) are flocking to sports radio programs...

Very farfetched. Maybe Star or People's magazine. Maybe a national personality that is not held accountable on what he says about a small market. But it's impossible to engage in that kind of fiction on a regular basis in a small market, retain credibility, and retain rankings.

 

[Padrino]

Very farfetched. Maybe Star or People's magazine. Maybe a national personality that is not held accountable on what he says about a small market. But it's impossible to engage in that kind of fiction on a regular basis in a small market, retain credibility, and retain rankings.

you're kidding me, right? webber vs. peja hardly had twigs for legs to stand on, yet every sacramento media outlet bit on it (including grant napear), and they chewed and chewed and chewed until the maloofs decided to trade chris webber for "flexible pieces." worked out great, huh?

 

[HndsmCelt]

If Evans is smart he will make signing HIS contract with the Kings contingent on giving DMC a FAT extension. I love both of them but to win a team need a dormant big, I don't care how good a guard is his ultimate success will be determined by the guy that sets his pick, catches his passes and gets him rebounds for second chances. I can name a few guys (M. Gassol, Howard, maybe P. Gassol) who are better but DMC is a top 5 NOW at 22 with a HUGE upside, if I am Evans agent I'd tell him straight up hitch your wagon with this guy and you two will make each other better, leave and you are at the tender mercies of your new team's big man. I have always loved the way even so-called experts seem evenly split on who was more over rated John Stockton or Karl Malone, they just flat made each other better.

 

[Gary]

you people baffle me. tyreke did do it for an entire year. are you blind, sir?!

tyreke evans' '11-'12 3-pt. % - .202 (20-99)
tyreke evans' '12-'13 3-pt. % - .338 (45-133)

in more attempts per game, tyreke hit a significantly greater percentage of his three pointers...

PRIOR to the middle of December he was in the 20%s and after he was in the mid to upper 30%s. So he didn't do it for the entire year. He improved greatly during the last half of the year.

 

[macadocious]

IIRC he started off the first few games looking really good from the perimeter, then something happened and he lost all confidence until after the All-Star break. Then he was shooting pretty good again.

 

[Padrino]

PRIOR to the middle of December he was in the 20%s and after he was in the mid to upper 30%s. So he didn't do it for the entire year. He improved greatly during the last half of the year.

i don't know if you just think you know what you're talking about, but here's a breakdown of tyreke's 3-pt % by month:

october - .500
november - .250
december - .375
january - .533
february - .261
march - .319
april - .389

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/evansty01/splits/2013/

so yes, tyreke certainly did post solid percentages from three after december (totaling 34% average)...

but here's the sticking point: he also posted solid percentages from october through december (totaling 30% average), contrary to your claim that he was averaging in the 20% range...

ya really need to go digging for stats rather than just pulling them out of your ***...

 

[Kingster]

you're kidding me, right? webber vs. peja hardly had twigs for legs to stand on, yet every sacramento media outlet bit on it (including grant napear), and they chewed and chewed and chewed until the maloofs decided to trade chris webber for "flexible pieces." worked out great, huh?

If you want to bury your head in the sand, so be it. The fine grain is probably better than the coarse. The Webber/Peja issue is a red herring.

 

[Padrino]

If you want to bury your head in the sand, so be it. The fine grain is probably better than the coarse. The Webber/Peja issue is a red herring.

please. that's a claim meant to ignore the context under which you were initially arguing, and i find it terribly wanting. you asserted the following: "it's impossible to engage in that kind of fiction on a regular basis in a small market, retain credibility, and retain rankings." well, the sacramento bee, grant napear, and a great many others were, at one time, engaged in the fiction that there was an ongoing feud between chris webber and peja stojakovic, many using that fiction as a perceived wedge driven between the two players, claiming they could not coexist...

of course, there was no feud. yet ailene voison still covers the kings for the bee's sports section. and grant appears to have lost none of his credibility with the likes of you. so how about you address the issue of media sensationalism as it pertains to demarcus cousins and tyreke evans, rather than attempt to paint my argument as a red herring when it is, in fact, wholly relevant to bring up the falsified webber/peja "feud" as a useful parallel...

 

[Gary]

i don't know if you just think you know what you're talking about, but here's a breakdown of tyreke's 3-pt % by month:

october - .500
november - .250
december - .375
january - .533
february - .261
march - .319
april - .389

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/evansty01/splits/2013/

so yes, tyreke certainly did post solid percentages from three after december (totaling 34% average)...

but here's the sticking point: he also posted solid percentages from october through december (totaling 30% average), contrary to your claim that he was averaging in the 20% range...

ya really need to go digging for stats rather than just pulling them out of your ***...

Ok first off STFU... Second, 8 for 28 in November and December = 28%. So no, I didn't pull the stats out of my ***, so stop acting like a moron. I just didn't see that big fat 1 for 2 on the October game that brought that 28% to 30%. Quit being a dick, because what I saw (nov - dec) he was in the 20%s.

Also, he finished the year at 33% so I was correct in saying that after December he was shooting the 3pt shot better and more consistent even though in Feb he sucked.

 

[Darth Divac]

Ok first off STFU... Second, 8 for 28 in November and December = 28%. So no, I didn't pull the stats out of my ***, so stop acting like a moron. I just didn't see that big fat 1 for 2 on the October game that brought that 28% to 30%. Quit being a dick, because what I saw (nov - dec) he was in the 20%s.

Also, he finished the year at 33% so I was correct in saying that after December he was shooting the 3pt shot better and more consistent even though in Feb he sucked.

...You really just have to find some way to dislike Tyreke, don't you?

 

[Section 101]

possible, but unlikely, given that 'reke was still taking about the same number of 3's per game in these reduced minutes (as a result of being pushed off-ball much of the time), and his shooting percentages were still climbing. his lack of an outside shot dragged his percentages down in years past, but with those numbers improving under less favorable conditions for tyreke, the statistics bear out my assertion...

regardless, i find your point is irrelevant. on a young, growing team that is at a lack for top shelf talent, you don't marginalize a player with tyreke's potential in favor of lesser talents. you grant that player the minutes necessary to expedite his improvement. tyreke's per 36 numbers still suggest that he could very well be on an all-star trajectory, particularly if franchise conditions improve under new ownership, management, and coaching, as we all believe they will...

His increased numbers was from better shot selection. Reducing the number of off the dribble shots. Which BTW is also due to him not having the ball as the shot clock runs down where he has to pull up.

I'm still not convinced he has the stamina to make it through the year at 36 mins per game or more. The 31-33 is more realistic.

 

[Gary]

...You really just have to find some way to dislike Tyreke, don't you?

No, the dude is acting like an a-hole for no reason. I don't hate Evans. I said he has been doing a LOT better and if he keeps it up we should offer him a contract. If he regresses on that 33% 3pt% then maybe we should look elsewhere after next year. After all, we have gave him 5 years to improve.

 

[Darth Divac]

His increased numbers was from better shot selection. Reducing the number of off the dribble shots. Which BTW is also due to him not having the ball as the shot clock runs down where he has to pull up.

I'm still not convinced he has the stamina to make it through the year at 36 mins per game or more. The 31-33 is more realistic.

Doesn't have the stamina? Who do you think he is, Zach Randolph?!?!

 

[funkykingston]

No, the dude is acting like an a-hole for no reason. I don't hate Evans. I said he has been doing a LOT better and if he keeps it up we should offer him a contract. If he regresses on that 33% 3pt% then maybe we should look elsewhere after next year. After all, we have gave him 5 years to improve.

We can't offer him a contract if he keeps it up. Evans is a free agent this offseason and he will certainly get multi-year offers from other teams. So either the Kings sign him or let him walk.

 

[Gary]

We can't offer him a contract if he keeps it up. Evans is a free agent this offseason and he will certainly get multi-year offers from other teams. So either the Kings sign him or let him walk.

We can offer him one at the end of the year if he improves on the 33% (and shows improvement in ball handling and shot selection)..

I don't mind keeping him on the team as a SG and part time PG. Full time PG though? I don't think he's improved much in regards to his court vision, but he is a better passer and doesn't hold the ball as long. That's something Smart actually did right. I don't think it's a big deal though, he does just fine playing part time PG and he's improving on his SG play so I don't see a reason why he wouldn't improve, especially with more money spent on better coaching this year (hopefully)..

 

[Padrino]

Ok first off STFU... Second, 8 for 28 in November and December = 28%. So no, I didn't pull the stats out of my ***, so stop acting like a moron. I just didn't see that big fat 1 for 2 on the October game that brought that 28% to 30%. Quit being a dick, because what I saw (nov - dec) he was in the 20%s.

Also, he finished the year at 33% so I was correct in saying that after December he was shooting the 3pt shot better and more consistent even though in Feb he sucked.

no, i will not STFU, because you don't have control of the statistics, friend...

you framed your argument around the notion that you'd like to see tyreke shoot a solid percentage from three throughout an entire year, and that he shot it more poorly in the first couple months of the season. well, through 18 games (october - december), tyreke was 9/30 from three. this is exactly a 30% average. through the next 47 games in which he played (january - april), tyreke was 36/103 from three. this is roughly a 35% average...

so yes, i grant you that he generally shot better from three after december, but your initial claim was that tyreke shot much more poorly in the first couple months of the season. on average, you're wrong. and it seems counterproductive to split hairs between the 30% he averaged through december and the 35% he averaged after december. a growing talent like tyreke should improve as the season wears on...

he had a few months where he was absolutely stellar from three. that's the nba. every player has ups and downs, particularly those that rely on jump shots. thankfully, tyreke does not have to rely on his jumpshot, but his 3-ball is improving regardless. 33-38% from three would be exceptional for a player of his caliber to achieve in any given season. it's enough that the defense has to honor his shot. it gives his team more space to work with. hell, even dwayne wade is only a career 29% three-point shooter...

 

[funkykingston]

We can offer him one at the end of the year if he improves on the 33% (and shows improvement in ball handling and shot selection)..

I don't mind keeping him on the team as a SG and part time PG. Full time PG though? I don't think he's improved much in regards to his court vision, but he is a better passer and doesn't hold the ball as long. That's something Smart actually did right. I don't think it's a big deal though, he does just fine playing part time PG and he's improving on his SG play so I don't see a reason why he wouldn't improve, especially with more money spent on better coaching this year (hopefully)..

No, my point is that he is a free agent RIGHT NOW. Either he's on the Kings next year or on a different team.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Padrino, what would you say to a civil partnership?

 

[Padrino]

His increased numbers was from better shot selection. Reducing the number of off the dribble shots. Which BTW is also due to him not having the ball as the shot clock runs down where he has to pull up.

I'm still not convinced he has the stamina to make it through the year at 36 mins per game or more. The 31-33 is more realistic.

indeed, to the bolded portion above. but i fail to see why you're arguing with me. my claim was that tyreke has improved considerably since his rookie season. this includes things like shot selection and decision-making, no? those basketball-IQ-related improvements don't magically evaporate under the strain of additional minutes...

as to your second point, it's hogwash. evans is 6'6", 220lbs, and he's never looked to be in anything but incredible shape. he averaged 37 mpg his rookie season, and stamina didn't appear to be a problem then, did it?

i've never understood this argument from you, kingster, etc. professional sports are simple in this way, and it seems strange to me that i have to keep making this argument repeatedly: if a player averages 30 mpg, by season's end he's in shape to play about 30 mpg. if a player averages 36 mpg, by season's end he's in shape to play about 36 mpg...

evans didn't receive reduced minutes because he couldn't take it. he received reduced minutes because the kings' current front office wouldn't know a balanced roster if it smacked them upside the head with a basketball. geoff petrie gave keith smart a team full of combo guards with an affinity for chucking, and keith smart never had the balls to stash some of them on the bench permanently, instead deciding to slice into evans' minutes for the benefit of lesser talents...

 

[Spike]

His increased numbers was from better shot selection. Reducing the number of off the dribble shots. Which BTW is also due to him not having the ball as the shot clock runs down where he has to pull up.

I'm still not convinced he has the stamina to make it through the year at 36 mins per game or more. The 31-33 is more realistic.

By this logic, the only member of the Kings team who has the stamina for 36 minutes a game was John Salmons.