If not Ben then who

[KingMilz]

The biggest problem with BMac, even in college, is that his game is too dependent on hitting the jump shots, when that shot is not falling he has nothing to fall back on. People kept saying he just need more confidence, it's not confidence he needs it's skill. I have yet to see him developing an escape dribble pull up, floater, or even a post up game that would have complimented his outside shooting. On the defensive side, he is decent but not good enough to be a stopper. Until he gets better, he is essentially Trenton Hassell with less defense and better shooting. I personally don't think he is as good a 3-pt shooter as he is advertised and he (and the coaching staff) may get better result if he takes more long twos and less threes.

At this point, I'm intrigued by Seth Curry. He's undersized and overmatched physically at the 2 but I think he may be able to make some shots, which our two SGs haven't able to do enough.
.

What about his complete lack of hustle, when was the last time Ben made a hustle play for us? I for my life cannot understand how a guy who runs like the wind and apparently has a great motor cannot get any loose balls or leaks out in a game.

 

[VF21]

Am I the only one who keeps seeing the ghost of Quincy Douby?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Probably?

 

[rainmaker]

What about his complete lack of hustle, when was the last time Ben made a hustle play for us? I for my life cannot understand how a guy who runs like the wind and apparently has a great motor cannot get any loose balls or leaks out in a game.

That's really the biggest issue. It's not his shooting or lack of developing an offensive game, it's that he's not impacting games much thru sheer effort. With his body/athleticism, he should be a better man defender, more physical, not a ghost on the glass, should be looking for contact when attacking the rim instead of shying away. What he hasn't been able to do is work himself into games. If his first shot or two doesn't fall, that's it. Then we get little.

If he had Omri's attitude and work rate on the floor, I doubt people would complain nearly as much. Matt Barnes doesn't have much talent, but he's got confidence, defense, a chippiness to him which has kept him in the league. Ben's just too damn passive across the board. Can't play scared at this level.

 

[KingMilz]

Am I the only one who keeps seeing the ghost of Quincy Douby?

With the complete lack of effort and disinterest I keep seeing the ghost of Marcus Thornton

 

[pshn80]

if not Ben and yes not Ben, then our very best defender at the SG position.

 

[kingsboi]

in other news, CJ McCollum is turning himself into a MIP candidate.

 

[KingMilz]

Orlando is somewhat desperate to get rid of Channing Fryes contract (fairly terrible deal) I wonder if there is any possible way we could work out a Mclemore + whatever else it takes other than WCS for Frye (floor spacing) and Evan Fournier (is a FA after this season so fairly risky).

Maybe if Rondo does not work out they would be willing to take his 1 year deal.......along with Ben

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Fournier might be their third-best player; there's no chance that Orlando is that desperate.

 

[KingMilz]

Fournier might be their third-best player; there's no chance that Orlando is that desperate.

I agree but at the same time they want to develop Gordon and Hezonja and I don't see them moving Tobias Harris (who they just extended) and Evan is sort of hampering at least one of those two in that regard. I know they are desperate to dump Fyre who we actually could really use since he's a floor spacer and ball mover (not saying he's a great passer). Hopefully Evan cools off and makes it more viable.

 

[NoBonus]

Ben who? I just see an empty jersey on the court featuring roman numerals.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I agree but at the same time they want to develop Gordon and Hezonja and I don't see them moving Tobias Harris (who they just extended) and Evan is sort of hampering at least one of those two in that regard. I know they are desperate to dump Fyre who we actually could really use since he's a floor spacer and ball mover (not saying he's a great passer). Hopefully Evan cools off and makes it more viable.

Do you think that Gordon has a higher upside than Fournier? Because I don't; why wouldn't they just trade Gordon, instead?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Orlando is somewhat desperate to get rid of Channing Fryes contract (fairly terrible deal) I wonder if there is any possible way we could work out a Mclemore + whatever else it takes other than WCS for Frye (floor spacing) and Evan Fournier (is a FA after this season so fairly risky).

Maybe if Rondo does not work out they would be willing to take his 1 year deal.......along with Ben

On the salary cap front, we w0uld have to send out at least $6.92M to bring back Frye and Fournier. That would mean Ben + Collison, if you want to pull the trigger right now. That's to bring back an acknowledged bad contract. If you wait until mid-December you could replace Collison with Belinelli, (not that such a trade seems like a good idea) or Koufos (ditto) or Rondo (ditto), or at least FOUR of the Butler/Anderson/Acy/Curry/Moreland quintet (Yikes! 5 for 2?) or Casspi plus one of the quintet.

The only thing that even remotely makes sense would be Ben/Casspi/Acy for Fournier/Frye, and it couldn't happen until mid-December.

 

[KingMilz]

Do you think that Gordon has a higher upside than Fournier? Because I don't; why wouldn't they just trade Gordon, instead?

I don't think he does (than again I've been bias for Evan since the first time I saw him play in Denver), but I would imagine if the Magic did think his potential was anywhere near Gordon they would have extended him just a couple weeks ago. Due to his size/insane athletic ability Gordon does have pretty massive potential.

 

[206Fan]

I know this is early, but for next year, I think we should go after Tyler Johnson. I was a huge fan of him at Fresno. He's the type of player we need on this team.

 

[twslam07]

I know this is early, but for next year, I think we should go after Tyler Johnson. I was a huge fan of him at Fresno. He's the type of player we need on this team.

I would much rather go after Bazemore or Courtney Lee to be our starting SG. Both would be better fits.

 

[KingsFanGER]

When Ben continues to play like this, it's obvious that we try to sign a new SG next summer.
But you have to keep in mind, that Bazemore was nearly out of the league. Two years under Coach Bud and suddenly he figured out how to play and how to use his strengths for the benefit of the team.
Basically that's what SAC is missing all the years. The ability to develop players and fit them into a strong system, where they don't need to do too much and can play to their strengths.

 

[lawlman91]

Ben who? I just see an empty jersey on the court featuring roman numerals.

Ben McLemore the Eye-eye-eye

 

[twslam07]

Another SG that I would very much like as our starting SG is Alec Burks. He's coming off the bench this year in favor of Hood, but he can shoot 3s, play defense, handle the ball, playmake, & score.

I wonder if a Rondo/McLemore package is enough to get it done with them having issues with PG this year. We would really be strapped for PG depth if we made that deal, so we'd either need a PG back, Curry would need to show he can take over some PG minutes on a regular basis, or we'd likely need to sign a guy like Bynum or Lucas to help with that depth.

PG - Collison/Curry
SG - Burks/Belinelli/Anderson
SF - Gay/Casspi/Butler
PF - Cauley-Stein/Moreland/Acy/Dukan
C - Cousins/Koufos

 

[KingsFanGER]

Another SG that I would very much like as our starting SG is Alec Burks. He's coming off the bench this year in favor of Hood, but he can shoot 3s, play defense, handle the ball, playmake, & score.

I wonder if a Rondo/McLemore package is enough to get it done with them having issues with PG this year. We would really be strapped for PG depth if we made that deal, so we'd either need a PG back, Curry would need to show he can take over some PG minutes on a regular basis, or we'd likely need to sign a guy like Bynum or Lucas to help with that depth.

PG - Collison/Curry
SG - Burks/Belinelli/Anderson
SF - Gay/Casspi/Butler
PF - Cauley-Stein/Moreland/Acy/Dukan
C - Cousins/Koufos

I think Burks comes off the bench, because they want some additional playmaking with the second unit. Burke is a scorer and can't run a team. So in the 2 games I watched this season Burks played the lead guard role all the time, when Hayward and Neto were out.
I actually like Burks a lot. Great ballhandler and great when attacking the basket. But is he a good fit for us? His game never was centered around the 3ball. He can hit from beyond the arc, but this is not where he is at his best.
And would the Jazz like to give up Burks for a one year rental of Rajon Rondo and Ben?

I'm still thinking Reggie Bullock might be available. Detroit has great depth at the wing positions. Maybe they are interested in Eric Moreland to give them another shot blocker off the bench.
We could keep Ben, to see, if he improves and would add another wing player. Bullock looked very serviceable in the preseason and never got a chance in LA.

 

[KingMilz]

Gerald Henderson once he becomes healthy

 

[Albatros]

Nothing against Ben personally he obviously works his butt off in practice and in games, he just doesn't have "it" and I don't think he ever will.

sit his ass on the pine!

 

[Bricklayer]

Depending on the outcome of the current mini-crisis it could result in a second chance for Ben, but chances won't matter if he doesn't grow some balls..

 

[bajaden]

Ben has all the physical tools to be a great player. Unfortunately he's missing the most important part of the equation. The harddrive! He just doesn't have a feel for the game, which I think to some extent, is instinctive. How does Rondo grab that many rebounds, and Ben doesn't even come close. Because Rondo instinctively has a feel for where the ball is going the moment it's shot and is moving in that direction. When I played centerfield, I could feel my body already leaning in one direction the minute the pitch left the pitchers hand. Ben doesn't seem to have that, and as a result, he's always out of place. He then he tries to compensate by forcing things, and that usually results in a turnover.

Do I think he can get better? Sure! You practice something enough and you'll improve, but I doubt he'll ever reach his perceived potential. I could be wrong, but great players have great instincts, and Ben doesn't seem to have them.

 

[Livinthedream]

Ben has all the physical tools to be a great player. Unfortunately he's missing the most important part of the equation. The harddrive! He just doesn't have a feel for the game, which I think to some extent, is instinctive. How does Rondo grab that many rebounds, and Ben doesn't even come close. Because Rondo instinctively has a feel for where the ball is going the moment it's shot and is moving in that direction. When I played centerfield, I could feel my body already leaning in one direction the minute the pitch left the pitchers hand. Ben doesn't seem to have that, and as a result, he's always out of place. He then he tries to compensate by forcing things, and that usually results in a turnover.

Do I think he can get better? Sure! You practice something enough and you'll improve, but I doubt he'll ever reach his perceived potential. I could be wrong, but great players have great instincts, and Ben doesn't seem to have them.

Someone has to get back on D while others crash the boards. If all 5 players crashed, then your team gives up constant fast break points. Who usually gets back? The guy already playing on the perimiter. This is applies on defense as well. The perimeterr player leaks out to try to get a fast break.

Rondo has always operated in the paint, which gives him more opportunities for rebounds.

 

[VF21]

I just don't think basketball is in Ben's blood. He just doesn't show the hunger or the passion - both things you simply cannot learn. You either have them or you don't.

 

[Bricklayer]

He does, however, appear to have a powerful backer in Cuz.

I'm not sure at all that has much to do with basketball, but its yet another reason Ben can keep getting chances his play has not earned. to the degree this mini-crisis even results in the institution of a different offense where a low-IQ player like Ben can play in a safer box, not be asked to randomly create, know when he's going to curl etc., it could also help his performance.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Ben has all the physical tools to be a great player. Unfortunately he's missing the most important part of the equation. The harddrive! He just doesn't have a feel for the game, which I think to some extent, is instinctive. How does Rondo grab that many rebounds, and Ben doesn't even come close. Because Rondo instinctively has a feel for where the ball is going the moment it's shot and is moving in that direction. When I played centerfield, I could feel my body already leaning in one direction the minute the pitch left the pitchers hand. Ben doesn't seem to have that, and as a result, he's always out of place. He then he tries to compensate by forcing things, and that usually results in a turnover.

Do I think he can get better? Sure! You practice something enough and you'll improve, but I doubt he'll ever reach his perceived potential. I could be wrong, but great players have great instincts, and Ben doesn't seem to have them.

Yup. Bottom line, not a "ball player". Should have been a track & field athlete

 

[Livinthedream]

He does, however, appear to have a powerful backer in Cuz.

I'm not sure at all that has much to do with basketball, but its yet another reason Ben can keep getting chances his play has not earned. to the degree this mini-crisis even results in the institution of a different offense where a low-IQ player like Ben can play in a safer box, not be asked to randomly create, know when he's going to curl etc., it could also help his performance.

Not sure if this is your lawyer side or politician side. Combo of both I guess.

Maybe nothing comes of this meeting and we continue to start the smarter Anderson. No worries then.

Edit: doesn't matter if Ben starts or plays 5 minutes a game. This style we currently play only fits DC and Casspi. So this meeting wouldn't ve about Ben and Cuz liking him. It's about winning games.

 

[Bricklayer]

Not sure if this is your lawyer side or politician side. Combo of both I guess.

Maybe nothing comes of this meeting and we continue to start the smarter Anderson. No worries then.

The passive aggressive Anderson thing is getting old. Ben's been miserable no matter who you compare him to. For most of his career actually.

Ben PER: 4.1
Career PER 9.0

PERs of every starting backcourt pair in the Western Conference:


Curry 37.4
Thompson 15.1

Westbrook 30.0
Roberson 9.6

Lillard 26.3
McCollom 19.0

Harden 23.1
Lawson 9.5

Bledsoe 22.9
Knight 15.4

Rubio 21.9
Wiggins 14.0

Paul 19.6
Redick 16.9

Williams 18.6
Matthews 9.9

Clarkson 17,2
Bryant 12.7

Conley 17.1
Allen 10.3

Hood 16.0
Neto 8.0

Rondo 14.0
McLemore 4.1

Gordon 13.7
Holiday 11.9

Parker 13.0
Green 7.5

Harris 11.8
Mudiay 8.2

I dunno...does one of those THIRTY numbers jump out at you a bit as being out of place. Well off the pace? Any of them?