That's not even close to the "easy" solution; if it were, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
If not Ben then who
- Thread starter andjel
- Start date
Check out Anderson's game log from his last season. His shooting is no more consistent than Ben's.
I don't mind having Anderson as a 3rd SG. I just don't think he offers enough of an upgrade right now to make up for what we give up longer term. We're in a unique situation but I don't think many teams fighting for the 8th seed would make that short term of a decision.
CurseOfTheSalmons
Starter
Kobe Bryant. Too bad we couldn't possibly match his salary. That would be interesting.
It has only been three games, two of which were against a really tough opponent who we could have beaten despite Ben's horrible play.
It has only been three games, two of which were against a really tough opponent who we could have beaten despite Ben's horrible play.
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HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
You don't trade Ben right now unless there is a legitimate 3+D option available. Right now Ben represents the best hope the team has at being a defensive player who can shoot the ball at the SG spot. He's shooting 40% from three and his defense has been decent enough. Yeah, his game off the drive hasn't been great, but we don't need him for that.
Its pointless to trade Ben for someone like Kevin Martin or Evan Fournier. If you want more shooting in the starting lineup, start Belinelli who is a better shooter. If you want defense just start James Anderson.
I think most of the consternation surrounding Ben is because we drafted him thinking he's Ray Allen when in reality he might just become Courtney Lee. But lets not pretend that kind of player isn't valuable. Finding legitimate two-way roleplayers is a pain in the ass, especially at the wing position. Look at the kind of contract that DeMarre Carroll got. At a certain point you have to trust your development staff to be able to mold Ben into that kind of roleplayer. You don't throw away that kind of potential to splurge on a mediocre one dimensional veteran. Just not smart GMing.
Its pointless to trade Ben for someone like Kevin Martin or Evan Fournier. If you want more shooting in the starting lineup, start Belinelli who is a better shooter. If you want defense just start James Anderson.
I think most of the consternation surrounding Ben is because we drafted him thinking he's Ray Allen when in reality he might just become Courtney Lee. But lets not pretend that kind of player isn't valuable. Finding legitimate two-way roleplayers is a pain in the ass, especially at the wing position. Look at the kind of contract that DeMarre Carroll got. At a certain point you have to trust your development staff to be able to mold Ben into that kind of roleplayer. You don't throw away that kind of potential to splurge on a mediocre one dimensional veteran. Just not smart GMing.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I think you could also always look at some guys playing SF that can slide down to SG. Remember, they are doing a lot of switching on screens so major size at SG is what you probably want. Some players I like:
Robert Covington - had one of the highest switch rate in the league last year, plays SG-PF. He's been out and I'm not sure they want to move him.
Jerami Grant - another Sixer that would have been nice to snatch in return instead of nothing.
PJ Tucker - he's a hard working defender and can switch from SG-PF.
Robert Covington - had one of the highest switch rate in the league last year, plays SG-PF. He's been out and I'm not sure they want to move him.
Jerami Grant - another Sixer that would have been nice to snatch in return instead of nothing.
PJ Tucker - he's a hard working defender and can switch from SG-PF.
twslam07
All-Star
$11 mil under the new cap is similar to $6.7-$7.5 mil under the old cap to give you some context.
Every year we seem to fixate on one player who, for whatever reason, isn't living up to hopes or expectations. Right now it's Ben - and I fully understand the frustrations being voiced by those of us who want him to do better as well as the patient anticipation of those who still believe he will do better.
Ben is an enigma. You seem glimpses of what could be, but (at least in my mind) those glimpses are all too few and far between. Ben reminds me of Francisco Garcia, the one player in all of Kings history who brought out my biggest roller coaster ride of emotions.
I like Ben. He seems like a good young man. But I am in no way convinced he can ever achieve what the Kings want and need him to be as a starting 2 guard.
So to answer the question, "If not Ben, who?" I think we need to figure out who Ben is first. And, thus far, I don't think we have an answer to that part of the question.
Ben is an enigma. You seem glimpses of what could be, but (at least in my mind) those glimpses are all too few and far between. Ben reminds me of Francisco Garcia, the one player in all of Kings history who brought out my biggest roller coaster ride of emotions.
I like Ben. He seems like a good young man. But I am in no way convinced he can ever achieve what the Kings want and need him to be as a starting 2 guard.
So to answer the question, "If not Ben, who?" I think we need to figure out who Ben is first. And, thus far, I don't think we have an answer to that part of the question.
ockingsfan
Starter
I still think starting Marco Belilini would be the best option to start at SG and let Ben come off the bench.
At the end of the last two seasons, Ben's best games of each year, he had been much better being the primary option when DMC and Rudy were out with injury.
Ben just gets super passive when he knows that DMC and Gay should be getting the shots. Off the bench, he would be one of the primary weapons and thus be more aggressive.
I think being with ball dominant stars like DMC and Gay gets the worst out of Ben.
Ben would be better served to be a primary option with the second unit and Belilini should start and he would give Rondo a shooter next to him.
At the end of the last two seasons, Ben's best games of each year, he had been much better being the primary option when DMC and Rudy were out with injury.
Ben just gets super passive when he knows that DMC and Gay should be getting the shots. Off the bench, he would be one of the primary weapons and thus be more aggressive.
I think being with ball dominant stars like DMC and Gay gets the worst out of Ben.
Ben would be better served to be a primary option with the second unit and Belilini should start and he would give Rondo a shooter next to him.
ForlornKing
Starter
I like the Randy Foye idea.
While I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, I would hate to see us lose Bellinelli's punch off the bench - especially if Ben isn't able to pick up the slack. And that reverts back to my general lack of confidence in McLemore right now. Until he starts showing confidence in himself, I honestly don't see how any of us can have much confidence in him. The NBA is a place for the bold, not the meek.
twslam07
All-Star
This sums up a lot of how I feel on this topic. I'm not necessarily saying that McLemore is playing well, but I do think he is a player that gives us a very good chance at maximizing our team's potential.
Trading McLemore for a non 3 and D player is only decreasing our chances at finding the perfect fit at SG. This team will be best when they have a 3 and D SG starting. Taking a step forward for the sake of stepping forward is not always the wisest move. If you were to trade McLemore for Martin, our team would be better this year. However, our team's potential is therefore capped considering Martin can never be the player we REALLY want at SG. I'm not saying McLemore will become that player, but his potential gives us a shot at making this a better team with one less weakness.
And I don't buy that this team can't compete right now. Even with McLemore and Belinelli at SG, this team has more than enough talent to make the playoffs. I don't consider us in a position where we need to mortgage every young player to show Cousins we can compete. This roster should already be able to do that. Now our strategy should be starting to shift towards how do we make this competitive team a championship team, and in my opinion, trading McLemore for a guy like Martin does not fit that strategy.
The way I see it is that we have a couple shots at finding a 3 and D SG over the next year or so. 1) Signing Courtney Lee (UFA) next year. 2) Hoping Bazemore continues to prove himself this year and sign him next year (UFA). 3) McLemore develops into the 3 and D player we need. Getting rid of McLemore simply decreases our odds. Looking at the big picture, I'm not willing to do that.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I'm starting to think this may be the best option for now. At least try it for a stretch of games. Maybe Ben is a better bench player than he is a starter. If he gets some rhythm going and they really want him to be with the starting unit,...then try him there again after a while.
I remember back to his first year, before they threw him into the starting lineup, and he had a different way about him coming off the bench.
It's also possible that Marco will get more clean looks...even if he gets less total shots,...playing with the starting unit
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Along those lines, you could try Casspi with the starting unit. Rondo, Casspi, Gay, Cousins, Willie. We'd have the 'longest' starting unit in the league
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm well aware that the cap is going to create a lot of money for teams to spend. That said, I think you should evaluate players the same way you always have. Just because you have 20 or so million to spend, doesn't mean you should over spend. Just my opinion of course, but a player doesn't get better just because you paid a few extra million for him.
I don't know...if Jeremy lamb got $7million, Fournier gets at least that much too.
Even with this being said, I think MJ and the hornets are nuts. Drafted Kaminsky when they could've had one of the best perimeter defending core in Winslow-MKG. I guess the Batum trade is what they wanted.
Fournier is a combo guard who can do a little bit of everything on offense. He's going to be very valuable in the league. He's a G version of Casspi, but with a higher ceiling.
Orlando is forcing him into a very weird role.
They currently have a lineup of Payton, Oladipo, Fournier, Harris, and Vucevic.
There's 5 ball dominant guys in that lineup, and somehow, Fournier fits right in. His effiency hasn't been the best, but if you're watching him, you can tell he's a special player.
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When Ben was drafted I didn't see him as a great fit because I was assuming Tyreke would be resigned. And based on that assumption I was pushing for C.J. McCollum since he added both shooting AND ballhandling/playmaking, something that's really needed in a backcourt with Evans. The trouble with McLemore was that he (presumably) added the shooting but had a very shaky handle.
The reason I bring this up is that if I had to think of a good situation for a player like McLemore it would be playing with a pass-first, ball dominant PG who didn't need his shooting guard to provide extra ballhandling or playmaking and who would find Ben for easy looks on spot ups, back cuts and in transition. In short, Rondo is the right type of PG for McLemore to develop into the 3&D wing we all hoped he'd become.
And that goes both ways since a team with Rondo is already handicapped in terms of outside shooting. Gay (and now Cousins apparently) can be threats from outside but aren't knockdown shooters and obviously Cauley-Stein isn't going to stretch the floor. So McLemore really needs to be that consistent outside threat.
I'm not opposed to Belinelli starting since he can definitely provide the outside shooting. But (1) his defense, while a pleasant surprise to me in terms of effort and posititioning, still isn't good (2) his ballhandling and passing are much more helpful next to Collison than the ball dominant Rondo and (3) I love his scoring punch off the bench. He'll have plenty of off nights where you limit his minutes but he'll also have those nights where he's red hot and you ride him.
I wish Ben would put things together because a IMO solid producing McLemore is the best option to start at SG and the Kings starting five definitely needs some scoring/shooting from the SG position. He're to hoping.
The reason I bring this up is that if I had to think of a good situation for a player like McLemore it would be playing with a pass-first, ball dominant PG who didn't need his shooting guard to provide extra ballhandling or playmaking and who would find Ben for easy looks on spot ups, back cuts and in transition. In short, Rondo is the right type of PG for McLemore to develop into the 3&D wing we all hoped he'd become.
And that goes both ways since a team with Rondo is already handicapped in terms of outside shooting. Gay (and now Cousins apparently) can be threats from outside but aren't knockdown shooters and obviously Cauley-Stein isn't going to stretch the floor. So McLemore really needs to be that consistent outside threat.
I'm not opposed to Belinelli starting since he can definitely provide the outside shooting. But (1) his defense, while a pleasant surprise to me in terms of effort and posititioning, still isn't good (2) his ballhandling and passing are much more helpful next to Collison than the ball dominant Rondo and (3) I love his scoring punch off the bench. He'll have plenty of off nights where you limit his minutes but he'll also have those nights where he's red hot and you ride him.
I wish Ben would put things together because a IMO solid producing McLemore is the best option to start at SG and the Kings starting five definitely needs some scoring/shooting from the SG position. He're to hoping.
I'm a big Casspi fan but he's not the shooter that the starting five needs. And it means either he or Gay are chasing around SGs. Also means Tuff Juice would have to play significant minutes as the backup SF. And given Karl's tendencies I think it's much more likely we see games where Casspi starts at the 3 and Gay at the 4.
I love the Kings second unit. Collison, Belinelli, Casspi and Koufos are not only great individual contributors but they work very well together, especially the guards. Ben just needs to have things click for him so we're not forced to start Marco. And soon.
Hadlowe
Starter
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
Say what?
Seems like a bit of a reach there.
Okay, maybe you're on to something.
Chupacabra
Starter
It goes a little further than career 3pt%. Anderson doesnt turn the ball over as often and doesnt get lost away from the ball on offense and defense.
Hadlowe
Starter
In my mind, the only thing Ben really needs to do in the starting unit is improve his defensive focus and really start getting into opposing wings. There just aren't a lot of shots to go around with Cousins and Rudy needing 20 apiece and Rondo needing 10-15. Whoever is in the frontcourt will get buckets on putbacks and dumpoffs, but the 2 is going to be out there as a spacing safety valve. If he knocks down 2 of 5 shots all season long, he is doing his job on offense.
Ben actually averages slightly less turnovers when you compare the 2. In terms of getting lost off the ball on o/d, no really easy way to compare those statistically but it's definitely something Ben needs to improve.
Hadlowe
Starter
That varies game to game as well. Ben did reasonably well against Redick in the first game (aside from the four point play), sticking with him and forcing him off the three point line, and Redick is probably the third hardest off-ball cover in the league after Korver and maybe Klay Thompson. I can't speak to last game as I wasn't able to watch it. His rotations in off-ball situations are at their worst when his guy is stationary, as Ben doesn't have an intuitive sense of passing lanes to be able to cut off two at the same time, something that his athleticism lets him do. That's a knowledge of the game problem, and something that film sessions with Rondo can help fix.
twslam07
All-Star
No, this is absolutely wrong.
You're going to be left behind in FA if you want to hand out contracts that are equivalent to what they would be paid under the old cap. It's common sense. Basketball is a game of elites. If you have more money to spend, you're going to still concentrate that spend into good/great players and players who compliment your core players. Increasing the cap is going to change how much stars, starters, sixth men, role players, etc. make. You're not thinking clearly if you think otherwise.
Who ever said anything about overspending? $11 mil/year is going to be what sixth men/fringe starters are going to make under the new cap. I happen to like Fournier's game, and I think that's a reasonable price for him. Per 36 and as a 22 year old, he put up these stats:
.44 FG% / .38 3PT% / .73 FT% / 15.1 PPG / 3.3 RPG / 2.6 APG / 0.9 SPG / 1.8 TOPG
That's certainly nothing to scoff at. Defense is a weakness to his game, but he does have value on the offensive side of the ball. I think investing in a 23 year old who is already producing at this level is an easy investment to make. He's almost (if not already) at that sixth man/fringe starter level.
I like Fournier but McLemore put up nearly identical numbers last season. And it was Ben's 2nd and Fournier's 3rd. McLemore is still just 22 years old.
Now the numbers don't tell the whole story, which is that Fournier definitely has a better feel for the game but lacks Ben's physical gifts. But neither guy is a lights out shooter. Neither guy is a defensive stopper. And neither guy is really the 3&D wing that the Kings need in a starting lineup featuring Rondo, Gay and Cousins.
But McLemore still has a chance to be that type of player. My estimation of how likely it is that he'll get there has been slowly diminishing, but Fournier will never be a 3&D guy. Mostly because of the D part of the equation. And his skills are best utilized next to a PG that isn't as ball dominant as Rondo.
I'm not sure who else the Kings might go after if they decide to try and upgrade the starting SG spot. Bazemore, Foye, Afflalo, & Courtney Lee will all be unrestricted free agents. So is Joe Johnson but given the cost and poor fit I don't see that. Remember, the Kings will presumably also be looking to resign Rondo.
Again, the best thing that could happen is the light suddenly coming on for young Mr. McLemore.
Now the numbers don't tell the whole story, which is that Fournier definitely has a better feel for the game but lacks Ben's physical gifts. But neither guy is a lights out shooter. Neither guy is a defensive stopper. And neither guy is really the 3&D wing that the Kings need in a starting lineup featuring Rondo, Gay and Cousins.
But McLemore still has a chance to be that type of player. My estimation of how likely it is that he'll get there has been slowly diminishing, but Fournier will never be a 3&D guy. Mostly because of the D part of the equation. And his skills are best utilized next to a PG that isn't as ball dominant as Rondo.
I'm not sure who else the Kings might go after if they decide to try and upgrade the starting SG spot. Bazemore, Foye, Afflalo, & Courtney Lee will all be unrestricted free agents. So is Joe Johnson but given the cost and poor fit I don't see that. Remember, the Kings will presumably also be looking to resign Rondo.
Again, the best thing that could happen is the light suddenly coming on for young Mr. McLemore.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Winning teams always have players with that feel. And it allows guys to fill in so many places, fit in so many roles. Ben has always been very 1-dimensional. he's a pure SG of a single type.
The physical gift thing is highly overrated. 1) if you can't bring the ball with you, then the value of your physical gifts declines precipitously; 2) if you don't know how and when to use them, then its kind of like Stromile Swift -- so what?; 3) if you don't have a naturally aggressive mentality, you are never going to dominate and intimidate, no matter how high you can jump.
Ben does not naturally use his physical gifts for much of anything except highlight dunks. Those are cool, but there are guys with half his gifts who are twice the player. Ben is not a natural driver, rebounder, disruptive ball hawk, or anything else. He can jump high,, but gets backed down easily, so it does not appear he's got strength. His end to end speed is tremendous, but side to side? Not so much.
A feel player trumps that package.
Sac.1989
Starter
How about Marcus Thornton?
Id take Marcus but HOU wouldnt pull the trigger there, they vet production and currently MT is playing mins at SF for them.
Livinthedream
All-Star
We're back to wanting Nik and now Thornton. Hilarious. Why not Jimmer? Let's bring back all the guys who couldn't beat out Ben before, because....anyone but Ben.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Except he's not doing it this year. If we're going to make a final determination on Ben after the preseason and 3 games, then do the same for all the players. Belinelli is not shooting well at all right now and didn't in the preseason either. Maybe Marco needs to be traded? I mean 25% from 3 is abysmal. Ben is at least shooting 40% from 3. Although in another thread someone did blame Ben for Marco's poor shooting, so there is that.
Of course I don't think Marco should be traded, but I'm just pointing out that there is no shame in the bias right now. Mob mentality.
All we're going to get in a trade or in free agency is an average SG. Ben is already average by the numbers. He doesn't mess up the flow of the offense, doesn't turn the ball over and doesn't demand touches. Could care less if I like his personality or not.
KingsFanGER
Starter
So Ross got a 3 year $33M extension. There goes one potential trade target. And for me it shows how much value even underperforming SG's with some potential have right now.
Giving Ben away for guys like Foye or an aging Kmart just seems wrong to me.
Giving Ben away for guys like Foye or an aging Kmart just seems wrong to me.
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