If Kings draft at #7, who should they take?

[Entity]

I'm scared of any rookie being counted on. It sets us back to much. We can't wait for the growing pains of a rook especially at pg. let IT walk and trade pick + williams to Atlanta for Teague and their mid teen pick. Then trade that for a future pick or a couple 2nd rounders.

Anything outside top 4 is not gonna contribute fast enough. Smart could if gotten last year I'm just scared of a rookie pg. smart is risky IF we are talking about a push next year. The rest couldn't beat anybody we have currently on the team.

 

[macadocious]

I'm scared of any rookie being counted on. It sets us back to much. We can't wait for the growing pains of a rook especially at pg. let IT walk and trade pick + williams to Atlanta for Teague and their mid teen pick. Then trade that for a future pick or a couple 2nd rounders.

Anything outside top 4 is not gonna contribute fast enough. Smart could if gotten last year I'm just scared of a rookie pg. smart is risky IF we are talking about a push next year. The rest couldn't beat anybody we have currently on the team.

I really don't agree with this. We are not Championship team next year rookie or not, we are not even a 2nd round playoff team. We need to vie for a playoff spot and grow. Having the right rookie can help you towards that goal. I think we as Kings fans have been disenfranchised by rookies because of our last 4 or so drafts. Even last year, whom I think we took the correct and BPA, it was such a weak draft that he would probably have been a 10-14 pick in subsequent years, with the thought he was a project.

 

[bajaden]

I cringe and recoil at the thought of adding another non-defensive tweener guard who can "shoot". We need basketball players, not shooters. Petrie/Adelman had a good thing, but their system was totally predicated on three pieces: passing big men, prioritizing shooters over ball handlers/penetrators, and intelligent team D (above emphasizing individual defenders... even though we had a couple good ones in Doug and Bobby J)

We need guys with two way talent. Or, of course, a shotblocker. Look what's happening to the Thunder right now. Cousins is built for the playoffs, let's surround him with a team that is too.

In what way is a 6'6" SG a tweener???? The entire reason I like Stauskas so much, is because he is a basketball player and not just a one dimension shooter. Whether he can play defense at the NBA level or not is open to discussion. I wonder how many people questioned Larry Bird's defense before he came into the league. I'd rather bet on a player that's a good athlete learning how to play defense, than bet on him learning how to dribble or shoot. You listed a few qualifications above, and Stauskas fills most of them. He's a terrific passer. He's unselfish, and he has high BBIQ. He was basically the leader of the Michigan team. As for emphasizing individual defenders, is that why they drafted Peja? How about J. Will, or later Bibby. Were either of them noted for the terrific defense they played? The Kings played great team defense, and although they had Christie and Jackson, they wouldn't have mattered if the team as a whole didn't do the job.

 

[bajaden]

Thomas did that in his third college year while Smart only played two. Thomas only averaged 3.2 assists in his second year. Thomas was 22 as a rookie, Smart JUST turned 20 this March. I don't have context for Thomas' college numbers, but they are what they are. And even with that being said, the numbers only mean so much.

The shooting numbers are all pretty close, too, even giving Thomas his third year. I'd also point to Smart's FT%, which is / was higher than Thomas' .. I only bring this up because I know you've used that as a tool to predict future shooting capabilities in previous posts about other players.

I also think that, to some degree, Thomas is a little too involved in the offense relative to his talent. He's good. I like him more than most. But I think if Smart were to play the way Thomas is playing, it would be more tolerable because he 'looks the part' Fair or unfair, but I think it's true. Plus, the better defense (and Smart has a ton of potential on that end) would make some of that other stuff more tolerable. There would be growing pains.

I've said this all season, I don't really want Smart as much as I am quite terrified of him blowing up after we pass over him.

The fact is, you've seen more of Smart than I have. To that point, I respect your view of him quite a bit, but I suppose the quick and dirty response is that I see the potential there. Could be wrong.

Hey, either of us could be wrong. If we draft him, I pray to god that I'm wrong. By the way, I wasn't arguing for IT over Smart. I don't want either of them as my starting PG. (I want IT as my sixth man off the bench)

 

[bajaden]

I explained above that I can see his form is "different and a bit hitchy" and some people don't like it but it's not going to limit him like it did Evans. At least that's my opinion from watching him shoot.. And yes, I have been watching him.

As for the rest of your post I agree with your assessments of the %s but I am banking on Smart being much much more than he is now. He has the tools to be everything we are looking for in a PG, does he not? He already does so many things well. Defensively he has quick footwork, great hands (not to mention fast hands), big body, long arms, the IQ to know what someone is doing before they do it, and much much more. Offensively he can drive right now, and is a good passer. Ball handling improved this year and shooing did not. I am not as concerned as others about his shooting but I can't say it doesn't concern me a little.

I assume we are just going to have to agree to disagree about Smart.

For those who haven't seen his shot here it is.

It's not the best looking shot but I have seen a lot worse from better shooters. I'm banking on him being able to use that big juicy brain of his and tweak it a bit so he's not looking like he's grabbing every shot off of a ball cart.

Oh watch the draftexpress link after that video. It starts at about 11:00 and basically shows you what needs to be corrected.

You showed a couple of shots that for him were almost perfect form. I'm going to see if I can find some of his shots later in the year where he does the split when he shoots. It's what he reverted back to, just like Tyreke reverted back to his falling away. Sometimes those habits can't be broken. At the beginning of the season Smart said he has reworked his shot, and he started off shootinig very well. It lasted about 4 or 5 games, and he reverted back to his old form, which is absolutely horrible. Can he change his shot and stick with it? I don't have that answer. All I can say is that at the beginning of the year I was thrilled with how he shot the ball. And then the roof fell in. Nothing bugs me more than a player that's a bad shooter, who thinks he can shoot. Tyreke may have been a bad shooter at Memphis, but at least he knew it.

If he could shoot the ball consistently, then I'd be OK with him, but he far from a polished PG. He's no Jason Kidd coming out of college. Kid was a very creative passer, and was a true pass first PG. And like Smart, he was a terrible shooter, and was a very good defensive player. But I could live with him because of his PG abilities. I don't see those same abilities in Smart. There were times when Kid was mesmerize me in college. Smart has never done that. I think he's a huge gamble, but as you say, we'll just have to disagree on him.

 

[bajaden]

I'm scared of any rookie being counted on. It sets us back to much. We can't wait for the growing pains of a rook especially at pg. let IT walk and trade pick + williams to Atlanta for Teague and their mid teen pick. Then trade that for a future pick or a couple 2nd rounders.

Anything outside top 4 is not gonna contribute fast enough. Smart could if gotten last year I'm just scared of a rookie pg. smart is risky IF we are talking about a push next year. The rest couldn't beat anybody we have currently on the team.

Well we don't agree, but I do understand your point. I just don't see it as an either/or situation. You can draft a player for the future, and still try to improve your team enough to take the next step forward. And, if you do your homework and choose wisely, you might end up with a player that can contribute right away or at least in a year. I don't think you want to shortchange the future for immediate gratification. I think the idea is to build a winner, but a winner that's going to be around for the foreseeable future. However, that doesn't preclude trading the pick if the right deal comes around.

 

[bajaden]

Gary has made the comparison of Smart to Tyreke, and made mention of Tyreke's habit of falling away on his shot. Here is a typical shot by Marcus Smart, who by the way is very good at posting up.

A year ago, Smart wasn't a very good ballhandler, and to his credit, he worked all summer long on improving his ballhandling along with his shot. As a freshman he averaged 4.2 assists, but also averaged 3.4 turnovers, most of which were caused by his poor ballhandling. This past season he once again posted 4.8 assists, but only incurred 2.6 turnovers. So he definitely improved, but to say he's in the same catagory with Tyreke Evans is ridiculous. He's a good passer, but his game is riddled by self-imposed mistakes. If he comes down and hits a three, you can bet a million dollars that the next time down, he'll pull up and shoot another three, regardless of the shot clock. He has no problem shooting with a hand in his face and off balance. If, by some chance he's left alone on the perimeter and gets the ball, His form and his shot improve dramatically. But evern early in the year when he shot the ball better, he was still only in the 33% to 34% range.

 

[Kingster]

As unscientific as it is/sounds, it really does seem as if we are due.

Divine intervention?

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

i can't choose between marcus smart and nik stauskas!

 

[Gary]

You showed a couple of shots that for him were almost perfect form. I'm going to see if I can find some of his shots later in the year where he does the split when he shoots. It's what he reverted back to, just like Tyreke reverted back to his falling away. Sometimes those habits can't be broken. At the beginning of the season Smart said he has reworked his shot, and he started off shootinig very well. It lasted about 4 or 5 games, and he reverted back to his old form, which is absolutely horrible. Can he change his shot and stick with it? I don't have that answer. All I can say is that at the beginning of the year I was thrilled with how he shot the ball. And then the roof fell in. Nothing bugs me more than a player that's a bad shooter, who thinks he can shoot. Tyreke may have been a bad shooter at Memphis, but at least he knew it.

If he could shoot the ball consistently, then I'd be OK with him, but he far from a polished PG. He's no Jason Kidd coming out of college. Kid was a very creative passer, and was a true pass first PG. And like Smart, he was a terrible shooter, and was a very good defensive player. But I could live with him because of his PG abilities. I don't see those same abilities in Smart. There were times when Kid was mesmerize me in college. Smart has never done that. I think he's a huge gamble, but as you say, we'll just have to disagree on him.

The DX video which I mentioned in my posts show the bad mechanics. At about 11 minutes they break down his foibles.

Correction.. About 10 minutes in. They did say he makes jumpers when he doesn't have a hand in his face. Something like 1.29ppp I believe.

 

[Entity]

i can't choose between marcus smart and nik stauskas!

Stauskas? As what a taller jimmer?

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

Stauskas? As what a taller jimmer?

no! but now that you mention it, i've discovered that nik stauskas has bad rebounding and steal averages for a college guard. i'm seeing that most noteworthy NBA SGs and PGs averaged around 5 rpg, 4 apg, and more than 1 spg. nik stauskas is way below those averages in the same amount of playing time.

 

[Kingster]

Since PDA stated that the Kings needed better perimeter shooting, why in the world then would he draft Smart. If our starting lineup lacks perimeter shooting, you certainly don't improve it by either letting IT walk, or moving him to the bench and replacing him with Smart. Cousins life would get a lot more miserable with Smart out there

That makes too much sense. I think this whole discussion is over the table scraps. The problem is that we're probably going to be drafting a 2nd tier guy, not a 1st tier guy. I'd much rather have a discussion over whether the Kings should take Embiid, Wiggins, Parker or Exum.

 

[Padrino]

Since PDA stated that the Kings needed better perimeter shooting, why in the world then would he draft Smart. If our starting lineup lacks perimeter shooting, you certainly don't improve it by either letting IT walk, or moving him to the bench and replacing him with Smart. Cousins life would get a lot more miserable with Smart out there

personally, i don't think that PDA is leaning towards drafting marcus smart, should he be available at the kings' draft position. that said, nba gm's don't exist in a vacuum; they can't necessarily be held to their prior statements, because circumstances change so quickly in professional sports, and that's before we consider the fact that public comments by front office executives are often meant to obscure actual intention. in any case, the draft will always be accompanied by the pressures of "BPA," so even if "perimeter shooting" is what pete d'allesandro believes the kings need above all else, he's likely going to be compelled by the specter of team's past who gambled on need rather than on "BPA" and lost. perhaps "BPA" is marcus smart, and perhaps it's somebody else when the kings' number is called. i'd prefer they just trade their pick altogether to bring in some veteran help. with mclemore and mccallum both figuring to be contributors down the road, i really don't think the kings need to add another 19-20 year old on top of the developmental pile...

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

I cringe and recoil at the thought of adding another non-defensive tweener guard who can "shoot". We need basketball players, not shooters. Petrie/Adelman had a good thing, but their system was totally predicated on three pieces: passing big men, prioritizing shooters over ball handlers/penetrators, and intelligent team D (above emphasizing individual defenders... even though we had a couple good ones in Doug and Bobby J)

We need guys with two way talent. Or, of course, a shotblocker. Look what's happening to the Thunder right now. Cousins is built for the playoffs, let's surround him with a team that is too.

that's not nik stauskas at all! if i had to name nik stauskas' calling card, i would say it's his ball handing. he is going to leave people in his wake in the NBA. he just happens to be a good shooter, a good passer, and a good playmaker at the same time. but yes, defensively and especially rebounding-wise, we'll have to cross our fingers. i doubt he will be worse than mclemore though.

 

[Sam0ah]

that's not nik stauskas at all! if i had to name nik stauskas' calling card, i would say it's his ball handing. he is going to leave people in his wake in the NBA. he just happens to be a good shooter, a good passer, and a good playmaker at the same time. but yes, defensively and especially rebounding-wise, we'll have to cross our fingers. i doubt he will be worse than mclemore though.

Holy Smokes... you said ball handling, so I looked it up and found this video. Completely sold He is the real deal. We have had ball handling like that since JWill. I want my vote back!

 

[Mass]

Last year I was maybe the only one who wanted to draft Carter- Williams, but his shooting was a big concern for most of the people. This year if we draft at number 7 my vote goes for Vonleh or Smart. One of the 2 should be available.

I like Smart, and I really want a solid defender at point guard. Yes, he shoots too much and not well, but I believe he will understand he needs to pass the ball a little more if he ends up in a team with Cuz and hopefully Gay. He is a strong defender, and it's something we definitely need. A player can always work on his shot, and I'm sure he will be better.

I see Vonleh more as a project, but I'd take him over Gordon any day. He could be a nice fit next to Cousins.

I also like Staukas, and I agree with Baja with his analysis. But I believe McLemore will be a better player next year and I'd like to sign a veteran SG to share minutes with him.

Then, I'm also really hoptimistc for this lottery. If there is a year we could get lucky I feel it's this one. But if we end up 7th, one between Smart and Vonleh will be there. I'd take the one who's left, and Vonleh if they are both available.

 

[SacTownKid]

I'd take Smart over Vonleh. Vonleh could potentially out produce Smart in his career but he's very reminiscent of Carlos Boozer to me. I don't think this team needs a Carlos Boozer type at PF right now.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Stauskas? As what a taller jimmer?

nik and jimmer don't compare as nik is a full size backcourt player and jimmer was an undersized 2. jimmy doesn't have great ball handling capabilities and his only true asset is shooting. nik has shown a variety of ways to integrate himself into a team. ball handling, shooting, decent size. if anything, he might be a kyle korver with ball handling.

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

Holy Smokes... you said ball handling, so I looked it up and found this video. Completely sold He is the real deal. We have had ball handling like that since JWill. I want my vote back!

pfft, i think i've seen steve blake do those fancy moves in his own dribbling video. all that matters is game footage.

 

[rainmaker]

Holy Smokes... you said ball handling, so I looked it up and found this video. Completely sold He is the real deal. We have had ball handling like that since JWill. I want my vote back!

Please, don't go putting him in the same sentence as JWill. That's an incredible reach even with the wildest of imaginations.

That ballhandling in the video itself largely means nothing.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Holy Smokes... you said ball handling, so I looked it up and found this video. Completely sold He is the real deal. We have had ball handling like that since JWill. I want my vote back!

There was nothing special about that video. You'd expect any reasonable highschool point guard to be able to do what he did there. I'd have no trouble doing that and let me tell you, I'd likely not make it in the NBA. Point being you don't draft Stauskas for his ball-handling, he's not a PG. He's a SG with good passing ability. He's a good ball-handler for a SG, but not outstanding.

I do like Stauskas but it seems people have completely fallen in love with him. I really don't think it will happen due to us already having Ben. The FO seems very high on him. They're not going to use a high draft pick in a strong draft on someone that will take minutes away from Ben. It's for that reason I haven't really been acknowledging Stauskas. I do think he can be a good player as a dead eye shooter who can create a little for himself and others. Defensively is a big question mark. Have to say I do like his work ethic as he's clearly made very tangible improvements in both his ball-handling and his body. Shows he's a hard worker. I won't bet against him in the NBA but I really don't think we're going to take him, and his potential is definitely being exaggerated.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

There was nothing special about that video. You'd expect any reasonable highschool point guard to be able to do what he did there. I'd have no trouble doing that and let me tell you, I'd likely not make it in the NBA. Point being you don't draft Stauskas for his ball-handling, he's not a PG. He's a SG with good passing ability. He's a good ball-handler for a SG, but not outstanding.

I do like Stauskas but it seems people have completely fallen in love with him. I really don't think it will happen due to us already having Ben. The FO seems very high on him. They're not going to use a high draft pick in a strong draft on someone that will take minutes away from Ben. It's for that reason I haven't really been acknowledging Stauskas. I do think he can be a good player as a dead eye shooter who can create a little for himself and others. Defensively is a big question mark. Have to say I do like his work ethic as he's clearly made very tangible improvements in both his ball-handling and his body. Shows he's a hard worker. I won't bet against him in the NBA but I really don't think we're going to take him, and his potential is definitely being exaggerated.

Lol not really.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Lol not really.

Yep really. Any guard who actually worked on their ball-handling could do that - they're very basic drills. I was doing those drills with two balls at the same time at 16 and by no means am I trying to brag - the level I played at wasn't even close to being what Nik played at - it wasn't even close to being close. I'm sure he's a much better ball-handler now, but that video was really normal. I don't know, I'm just shocked that the video is being looked at as impressive for an NBA prospect when most good highschool guards could do equal or better.

 

[The Hammer]

that's not nik stauskas at all! if i had to name nik stauskas' calling card, i would say it's his ball handing. he is going to leave people in his wake in the NBA. he just happens to be a good shooter, a good passer, and a good playmaker at the same time. but yes, defensively and especially rebounding-wise, we'll have to cross our fingers. i doubt he will be worse than mclemore though.

Ok ok I stand corrected. I don't even watch college basketball so I had never seen him.... just the brief description set me off... I'm traumatized ok!?

 

[Mike]

It really does depend on what moves happen this off season. Are we going to hold onto Isaiah Thomas? Is Rudy Gay going to opt out?

If our starting line up has the following base: Thomas, McLemore, Gay, ?, Cousins. Then my choice of draft pick would be Vonleh. He has excellent size and athleticism, a ton of upside, and has the potential to become a productive PF defensively and offensively. He's a bit raw, but he has the talent to become a star in the NBA.

If Thomas and/or Gay leaves, then I might still be inclined to go with Vonleh because I think he's an excellent prospect for where we will draft from. My alternative pick would be Marcus Smart because he would be a good replacement for Thomas, or if we could trade back with Chicago and grab their two first round picks, then Tyler Ennis could be available in the mid-first round. By grabbing their two first round picks for our own, it would then allow us to grab a forward or a shooting guard.

Overall, my choice would be Noah Vonleh.

 

[Padrino]

It really does depend on what moves happen this off season. Are we going to hold onto Isaiah Thomas? Is Rudy Gay going to opt out?

If our starting line up has the following base: Thomas, McLemore, Gay, ?, Cousins. Then my choice of draft pick would be Vonleh. He has excellent size and athleticism, a ton of upside, and has the potential to become a productive PF defensively and offensively. He's a bit raw, but he has the talent to become a star in the NBA.

If Thomas and/or Gay leaves, then I might still be inclined to go with Vonleh because I think he's an excellent prospect for where we will draft from. My alternative pick would be Marcus Smart because he would be a good replacement for Thomas, or if we could trade back with Chicago and grab their two first round picks, then Tyler Ennis could be available in the mid-first round. By grabbing their two first round picks for our own, it would then allow us to grab a forward or a shooting guard.

Overall, my choice would be Noah Vonleh.

unfortunately, that can't really be the front office's mindset, given that the draft occurs before the july 1st date for free agency. the kings certainly might have a sense for what will happen with isaiah thomas and rudy gay as they get closer to free agency negotiations, but they can't know for sure, and thus will likely conduct their draft business without much consideration for the fates of their two key free agents...

 

[Mike]

unfortunately, that can't really be the front office's mindset, given that the draft occurs before the july 1st date for free agency. the kings certainly might have a sense for what will happen with isaiah thomas and rudy gay as they get closer to free agency negotiations, but they can't know for sure, and thus will likely conduct their draft business without much consideration for the fates of their two key free agents...

Like you say, free agency comes after the draft. So perhaps our free agents and potential free agents won't have any effect on the draft strategy. However, I think Thomas' future could have an effect on our draft strategy.

For instance, if our GM feels he will have to over pay to keep Thomas, or doesn't want to over pay for Thomas, or he simply wants to preserve cap space to sign Rudy Gay to an extension, then it is possible that we target a PG in the draft over a forward.

Currently drafting a PG wouldn't be near the top of our list due to Thomas and McCallum's presence on the roster. We have a glaring hole at PF. But if the strategy might be to not bring back Thomas, or they aren't sure they will, then drafting a PG could end up being a priority (or trading for one).

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

There was nothing special about that video. You'd expect any reasonable highschool point guard to be able to do what he did there. I'd have no trouble doing that and let me tell you, I'd likely not make it in the NBA.

to your point, that video was uploaded in 2012 just after nik stauskas left high school!

 

[Dime Dropper]

to your point, that video was released in 2012 just after nik stauskas left high school!

Exactly my point!