Ichiro Suzuki HOF material?

[Gary]

Ichiro was born in 1973 so he probally has a good 6 years left in him.

First 5 seasons he has had 200+ hits, and is on pace to hit over 200 again. Plus 100 runs per year, and is on pace to breask that 100 run barrier again. The only knock on him is his OBP. He does not get as many walks as he should.

 

[captain bill]

No, unless he does something really insane for the last 6 years. He might make a good argument, but he probably won't be voted in because he hasn't played in the MLB long enough.

Then again, it is the baseball HOF, so he might be voted based on an amazing career in both the states and Japan. But probably enough sports writers will look down on that so he won't get in unless Seattle starts winning again.

 

[StevenHW]

Part of Captain Bill's post:

...Then again, it is the baseball HOF, so he might be voted based on an amazing career in both the states and Japan. But probably enough sports writers will look down on that so he won't get in unless Seattle starts winning again.

I mostly agree with Captain Bill on that issue.

If you're referring to the Baseball HOF in Cooperstown, NY, the sportswriters are going to consider's Ichiro's career as a Seattle Mariner, but I highly doubt they will take into consideration of his stats in the Japanese leagues. (If that were the case, then why isn't the Japanese league home-run king Sadaharu Oh not in the Baseball HOF?)

Since the Baseball HOF centers mostly around the Major League Baseball in the U.S. and Canada, Ichiro might have a shot at being voted in, but he would have to keep up those statistics in the next several years. Plus, it would help if the Mariners get back into the pennant race.

 

[Sackings8390]

yeah its his overall stats accounted for not just mlb

like a negro leaguers stats are kept

 

[Gary]

BUMP***

After another year he is on pace to break 200 hits, and 100 runs. Also 30+ SB and a .300 avg. This is a player I wish my Dodgers could get

Definite HOF if he puts up 2 more years of these stats imo.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'll be honest that I've never been a huge fan but if he breaks the record for 200 hit seasons he pretty much has to be in.

I don't believe his Japan stats will count for anything - this is much different than the Negro league situation.

 

[slugking50]

Its not the MLB Hall of Fame. Its the Baseball Hall of Fame. Hes already a lock with his accomplishments in Japan and in Seattle.

 

[Rockmeister]

I'm a huge fan of Ichiro and I think he is HOF material. I remembered the first time I saw him in a game, he was playing in right field and he threw the ball all the way to 3rd base and got the player out. I was amazed with how far and right on target he threw that ball. And they kept replaying that throw over and over again. It was really amazing. And from then on, I was a fan.

 

[Gary]

Bump

Congrats Ichiro on another 200H / 100R / .300BA season..

HOF for sure To be in the same sentence as Gehrig is amazing in itself.. Plus ALL of Ichiro's seasons have been .300+ 100r+ 200h+ which is totally crazy in itself..

http://www.theolympian.com/sports/mariners/story/598267.html

SEATTLE –Seattle Mariners outfielder Ichiro Suzuki has matched Lou Gehrig's record with his eighth season of at least 200 hits and 100 runs.

Suzuki scored his 100th run of the season in the third inning Friday night against Oakland on Raul Ibanez's RBI single. Suzuki, who has 209 hits, achieved the 200-hit, 100-run mark for the eighth consecutive season.

Gehrig is the only other player in baseball history to have eight seasons reaching those benchmarks. Gehrig reached the marks in 1927-28, 1930-32, 1934 and 1936-37.

 

[Rockmeister]

Wow. Eight season in a row with 200 hits and 100 runs. I think that's an amazing career stat so far. Congrats Ichiro. Too bad he's on an aweful team.

 

[NeedMooreMikki]

I think he has to be considered for the hall just for what he has brought to the sport. I would vote yes for sure.

 

[Gary]

He's not going to hit the 100 run mark for the first time in his major league career, but he has the record for the most 200 hit seasons in a row.. Definitely HOF imo now... Started the thread 3 seasons ago and since then he has been the man.

 

[Jechtsphere]

No doubt he's a hall of famer.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I still think he's overrated but he's a lock for sure.

 

[Rockmeister]

I still think he's overrated but he's a lock for sure.

Why do you think he's overrated?

 

[est.1999]

he is so far from being overated that is ridiculous. The guy can get singles off of ground balls. And his defense is stellar

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Because he is a pure singles hitter, its almost like because of the steroid era his lack of power is celebrated by writers when in any other era it would count as a major strike against him. Yes he is the greatest pure singles hitter I have ever seen and a lock for the hall, but in the era of moneyball statistics his overall production is a lot weaker than it should be for someone who gets as many hits as he does.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I love how he plays the game. HOFer for sure in my book.

 

[Gary]

I love how he plays the game. HOFer for sure in my book.

Ditto.. Not many people can break a record set by Lou Gherig.. Oh wait.. Ichiro can!

 

[Merdiesel]

9× MLB All-Star selection (2001-2009)
8× MLB Gold Glove Award winner (2001-2008)
2× MLB Silver Slugger Award winner (2001, 2007)
2× MLB Batting Champion (2001, 2004)
2001 AL MVP
2001 AL Rookie of the Year
2001 AL Stolen Base Champion
2007 MLB All-Star Game MVP
Single-season MLB record with 262 hits
9 consecutive seasons of 200 or more hits (MLB record)
9 consecutive seasons of .300+ batting average

...what was ur question again?

 

[6th]

That's some really impressive and consistent numbers. That spells HOF to me. Thanks for putting that together, Merdiesel.

 

[Merdiesel]

That's some really impressive and consistent numbers. That spells HOF to me. Thanks for putting that together, Merdiesel.

just snagged it from wiki. but thanks.

 

[BritishColumbia]

IMO, he is a true HOFer. He made history. He is a first superstar from Asia. He opened doors for many guys from Japan and Korea. He broke several records! He must be there!

Is he overrated? I think that he is a little bit over-hyped for his production, not overrated. He is not an MVP material. His sub par OBP (for his BA) shows that he gambles sometimes to get hits and sacrifices walks. He is a single hitter, a great one, but his inability to hit for extra bases limit his offense. You have to have solid power hitters behind him to utilize his hits.
It is not a secret that BA is a misleading stat category because a lot of single hits are usually wasted and at times you want one 2B or 3B than 4-5 singles. So, obviously he is not a difference maker offensively like A-Rod or Pujols. BUT he can help you in so many ways and that makes him so special - single hit machine, golden glove defense, consistency, great speed.
I think it is fair to say that he is arguably the best lead off man in history.
However, I would take many players over him.

 

[Oprostaj]

you would rather want one 2B or 3B than 4-5 singles? Ichiro is the sole reason that team scores ANY runs. What good is that 2B when you have nobody to drive you in? and penalizing him for his lack of power is crazy. Not everybody is built to hit them out. I'd rather want my guy on base 4-5 times because that opens up the game and makes the pitcher think. There are not many Pujols in the game. Ichiro is a fantastic player that combines speed, intelligence and a hell of a presence at the top of a lineup. If he was hitting in front of somebody like Pujols he would have broken any and all leadoff man records. I'm not a great fan, I don't watch him that often, but I give credit where credit's due. He's a baller, and he does what he's good at better than anybody else.

 

[kingsnation]

Ichiro is a HOFer simply for what he has done for the game of baseball overseas. Add his stats to that and he is a surefire choice.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

you would rather want one 2B or 3B than 4-5 singles?

That is exactly the kind of flawed thinking why I consider him overrated. Does Ichiro get anything close to 4-5 times as many hits as other lead off hitters? No. He gets ~5 more hits per 100 at bats than other top lead off guys (that is the difference between a .350 and .300 hitter, and if the .300 guys walks a few times they're back to even in terms of OBP).

At the same time he has spent most of his career in Right Field, the position that most teams will bury their worst fielders in to carry a guy with a big bat. So not only is he lacking power himself but he costs the Mariners a prime power spot.

Which isn't to say he's not a great player, but I'd scream bloody murder if the Sox ever moved their lead off guy for Ichiro, I suspect most Yanks fans would do the same.

 

[BritishColumbia]

you would rather want one 2B or 3B than 4-5 singles? Ichiro is the sole reason that team scores ANY runs. What good is that 2B when you have nobody to drive you in? and penalizing him for his lack of power is crazy. Not everybody is built to hit them out. I'd rather want my guy on base 4-5 times because that opens up the game and makes the pitcher think. There are not many Pujols in the game. Ichiro is a fantastic player that combines speed, intelligence and a hell of a presence at the top of a lineup. If he was hitting in front of somebody like Pujols he would have broken any and all leadoff man records. I'm not a great fan, I don't watch him that often, but I give credit where credit's due. He's a baller, and he does what he's good at better than anybody else.

you would rather want one 2B or 3B than 4-5 singles?

yes, because the whole idea is to score runs. And singles are often wasted. Doubles and triples give a great chance to score and rarely results in DP.

What good is that 2B when you have nobody to drive you in?

that's true ... but also you can say that what good is that single when you need 3 other guys to hit in that inning to drive you in?

You mention that he needs Pujols behind him to score more runs (not RBIs). That's true. He needs good hitters behind him to be effective. There are ocean of guys in MLB that do NOT need anybody around to be effective.
It does not say that he is not good offensively. He is very solid and useful but he is not A-Rod and some people wanna say that he is that important offensively. That's why I say that he is A LITTLE bit over-hyped. Nobody says that he is bad, he is just not that super good if you analyze his stats unbiassedly. I'd say that he is not that productive.

I'd rather want my guy on base 4-5 times because that opens up the game and makes the pitcher think

I have a problem with this one. The funniest part is that Ichiro does not get on base that often as you think. Yes, he has a crazy good AVG but Ichiro reached base only during 38% of his plate appearances in 2009. He is #30 at this stuff in MLB this season.

I spent my childhood in HK, Macao and Taiwan and I am very proud that a guy like Ichiro proved that players from that region could be very important and popular. He is a great ambassador of Japan, Asia and Asian baseball. He is one of my favorite players. However, I am first to admit that he is not that super-puper good like some people wanna picture him.

 

[Oprostaj]

That is exactly the kind of flawed thinking why I consider him overrated. Does Ichiro get anything close to 4-5 times as many hits as other lead off hitters? No. He gets ~5 more hits per 100 at bats than other top lead off guys (that is the difference between a .350 and .300 hitter, and if the .300 guys walks a few times they're back to even in terms of OBP).

At the same time he has spent most of his career in Right Field, the position that most teams will bury their worst fielders in to carry a guy with a big bat. So not only is he lacking power himself but he costs the Mariners a prime power spot.

Which isn't to say he's not a great player, but I'd scream bloody murder if the Sox ever moved their lead off guy for Ichiro, I suspect most Yanks fans would do the same.

here's my reasoning (I'm a cubs fan, so bear with me) I'm not saying make Ichiro president of the world. I'm simply saying give credit where credit is due. Yanks or Sox not wanting him at leadoff? fine, but those two teams are blessed with great leadoff men, and hitter's ballparks (i'm pretty sure I could have semi decent numbers there, as would many people here) The one time the Cubs were semi decent scoring runs (last year was an abarration) was the Juan Pierre was hitting first. The leadoff guy is supposed to get on base, and be a threat on them. Maybe Ichiro is not the best at it, but he is damn good. If he gets me two hits a game that opens up a whole new world of opportunites. A guy who hits a 2B or even 3B STILL has to rely on an RBI guy to drive him in. For that reason alone I'd rather take 3 singles a game than one 2B. Baseball is a game of opportunities, and you need to be on base to take advantage of them.

You're right, he doesn't walk or hit for power, but it's not sound thinking to say he's robbing the Mariners of a power hitter because he plays in right. He's a phenomenal RF, and he wouldn't turn into Moe or Curly if he played LF... if the Mariners actually knew what the **** they were doing and were able to get personel around him. Must be tough on a player knowing that he HAS to get on base, because there is nobody on that ****ing team that can hit. For that reason alone, I could see why he tries to hit everything.

I do see your point though, I just don't like the thought of penalizing a guy for not doing something he is just not built to do... if we're going to do that let's hate on Pujols for not stealing 60 bases

 

[Oprostaj]

yes, because the whole idea is to score runs. And singles are often wasted. Doubles and triples give a great chance to score and rarely results in DP.

True, but the statement posed to me was whether I'd want 2-3 singles over one 2B... I'd rather want 3 smaller chances that one bigger one. Again, nothing is guaranteed with a 2B hit. You still need someone to drive you in. You're right about the double plays, but that is not the fault of the guy on base. Not right to penalize a guy for being on base and not driving himself in.


that's true ... but also you can say that what good is that single when you need 3 other guys to hit in that inning to drive you in?

You mention that he needs Pujols behind him to score more runs (not RBIs). That's true. He needs good hitters behind him to be effective. There are ocean of guys in MLB that do NOT need anybody around to be effective.
It does not say that he is not good offensively. He is very solid and useful but he is not A-Rod and some people wanna say that he is that important offensively. That's why I say that he is A LITTLE bit over-hyped. Nobody says that he is bad, he is just not that super good if you analyze his stats unbiassedly. I'd say that he is not that productive.

I do agree that there are guys that do not require RBI production to be effective, but you are comparing apples and oranges. How many TRUE leadoff men do not need RBI production behind them? moreover, a leadoff guy is not supposed to be your RBI guy. I do understand your point, and I'm not arguing against it. I'm just asking how a guy who consistently bats over .320 and plays awesome RF can't be considerent productive. Yes, I'd want him on base more but to try and compare him with A-Rod just isn't fair.


I have a problem with this one. The funniest part is that Ichiro does not get on base that often as you think. Yes, he has a crazy good AVG but Ichiro reached base only during 38% of his plate appearances in 2009. He is #30 at this stuff in MLB this season.

I spent my childhood in HK, Macao and Taiwan and I am very proud that a guy like Ichiro proved that players from that region could be very important and popular. He is a great ambassador of Japan, Asia and Asian baseball. He is one of my favorite players. However, I am first to admit that he is not that super-puper good like some people wanna picture him.

Sorry, I didn't put this down as I wanted to. He doens't get on base 4-5 times a game, my mistake. What I meant to say is that he does get on base fairly decently - nothing crazy but when the guy is batting, he has a better chance to put the ball in play than most of the leauge. Again, all I want is chances. His contact rate + his speed makes him a threat every time he steps up the plate. His plate discipline is unrivaled by anybody except Pujols, and besides the fact that he doesn't walk too much, I can't see a knock on him. I wouldn't personally put him in the Hall of Fame, on that you are right, and I admit i was wrong before I looked at ALL the stats. BUT, he is a model of consistency, and again, if he was playing on a good team with good RBI production, i think his stats would be much better than they were now. Put him in front of Jeter and A-Rod, I guarantee he challenges .400

 

[pdxKingsFan]

here's my reasoning (I'm a cubs fan, so bear with me) I'm not saying make Ichiro president of the world. I'm simply saying give credit where credit is due.

I do give credit where credit is due in acknowledging that he should be a first ballot hall of famer. I just think when people start talking about "greatest lead off hitter ever" that is crazy talk when there are 2-3 guys right now I'd rather have without even getting into guys like Rickey Henderson or the guys before my time.