I Thomas

[UK_King]

Didn't you just say you wanted IT to "average 10 assists a game" That would second best in the league to Rondo.

I'd be happy to see him average 6-7 assists a game, alongside guys like John Wall, Teague, Jameer, even that is pushing it big time IMO on this team. People love Lowry he averages 5 assists, Dragic 6, Lin 6, ROY lillard 6. All these players are much much more natural PG's that IT, so i don't see how anyone can expect him to be dishing 10 assists a night.

Anyone who expects IT to be averaging a league best assist rate is surely going to be disappointed.

You have to put it in perspective as well, IT is "running" and offense that consists of NO set plays. Rondo would struggle to notch up his assists on this team. To get an assist on this team you have work 20 times harder than you would on most other teams.

on another thread someone said he was "terrible," fair enough, if you think that then don't cry when he doesn't go for 10 assists every night.

 

[mac]

Didn't you just say you wanted IT to "average 10 assists a game" That would second best in the league to Rondo.

I'd be happy to see him average 6-7 assists a game, alongside guys like John Wall, Teague, Jameer, even that is pushing it big time IMO on this team. People love Lowry he averages 5 assists, Dragic 6, Lin 6, ROY lillard 6. All these players are much much more natural PG's that IT, so i don't see how anyone can expect him to be dishing 10 assists a night.

Anyone who expects IT to be averaging a league best assist rate is surely going to be disappointed.

You have to put it in perspective as well, IT is "running" and offense that consists of NO set plays. Rondo would struggle to notch up his assists on this team. To get an assist on this team you have work 20 times harder than you would on most other teams.

on another thread someone said he was "terrible," fair enough, if you think that then don't cry when he doesn't go for 10 assists every night.

Read my post again. I in no way or form expect IT to be averaging 10 assists/game before I am satisfied. I meant that I wish he would make that his goal as opposed to scoring 20 points in order to prove people wrong about him. The results will speak for themselves when he makes setting guys up his priorities. There have been games where he's only ended up with 4 assists but where I've given him credit because I saw him making a clear effort to set guys up first. I actually thought that he did a decent job of that in the Washington game, and you will find no criticism of IT from me based on that game alone.

Now you are saying that Lowry, Lin, Lillard are more natural PGs than IT. No one would have said that last season. Last season IT was a good, passing PG that we needed, who some thought could average 8 apg. Now you are saying that IT is "running" an offense that consists of NO set plays and that it's hard to put up assists on this team. Tyreke's critics didn't give a **** about that fact when Tyreke was at PG. When Tyreke got Salmons wide open in the corner and Salmons bricked 3 after 3, Gary said that Tyreke's passes weren't good thus resulting in Salmons not being able to hit. Now Kingster says that PG is a hard position to learn, that he gives players 3 years to see how they develop, but last season he was as critical as ever about Tyreke.

But that's besides the point. This thread is about IT, not about biased posters. Back to my original point, Baja said that IT could be trying to prove people wrong, what with him being picked #60 and all that. The latest Cowbellkingdom article only seems to support that idea. All I want is for IT to prove he belongs in the league by being more of a playmaker than a scorer, at least while he is on the Kings with Cousins and Evans. As I have said before, he is a good passer and does have good court vision. It's all a matter of priorities for him.

 

[LWP777]

What's interesting about IT is that I remember in the pre-season last year and in the early part of the last year he would make some incredible passes. He would penetrate and many times get up in the air and find guys all over the court. He would even make passes way back out to the 3 point line when he was in the air right under the basket. He would get a couple of defenders in the air with him and find open shooters. He really does have pretty good court vision. But like others have said, it's like he's trying to prove to the world he can be a top notch player in this league and he equates scoring in order to accomplish that.

I do really like the fact that he seems to be a natural leader and he has the drive to succeed. He also seems to have a good attitude all the time and plays very hard no matter what's going on with the team (***cough****cough****DMC****cough****cough). All in all, for the 60th pick in the draft he's a pretty valuable player yet takes a lot of criticism from fans. I really do think with the right coach, the right system, and the right role he will continue to improve and be a very solid NBA player.

 

[mac]

What's interesting about IT is that I remember in the pre-season last year and in the early part of the last year he would make some incredible passes. He would penetrate and many times get up in the air and find guys all over the court. He would even make passes way back out to the 3 point line when he was in the air right under the basket. He would get a couple of defenders in the air with him and find open shooters. He really does have pretty good court vision. But like others have said, it's like he's trying to prove to the world he can be a top notch player in this league and he equates scoring in order to accomplish that.

I do really like the fact that he seems to be a natural leader and he has the drive to succeed. He also seems to have a good attitude all the time and plays very hard no matter what's going on with the team (***cough****cough****DMC****cough****cough). All in all, for the 60th pick in the draft he's a pretty valuable player yet takes a lot of criticism from fans. I really do think with the right coach, the right system, and the right role he will continue to improve and be a very solid NBA player.

Agreed.

 

[UK_King]

Read my post again. I in no way or form expect IT to be averaging 10 assists/game before I am satisfied. I meant that I wish he would make that his goal as opposed to scoring 20 points in order to prove people wrong about him. The results will speak for themselves when he makes setting guys up his priorities. There have been games where he's only ended up with 4 assists but where I've given him credit because I saw him making a clear effort to set guys up first. I actually thought that he did a decent job of that in the Washington game, and you will find no criticism of IT from me based on that game alone.

Now you are saying that Lowry, Lin, Lillard are more natural PGs than IT. No one would have said that last season. Last season IT was a good, passing PG that we needed, who some thought could average 8 apg. Now you are saying that IT is "running" an offense that consists of NO set plays and that it's hard to put up assists on this team. Tyreke's critics didn't give a **** about that fact when Tyreke was at PG. When Tyreke got Salmons wide open in the corner and Salmons bricked 3 after 3, Gary said that Tyreke's passes weren't good thus resulting in Salmons not being able to hit. Now Kingster says that PG is a hard position to learn, that he gives players 3 years to see how they develop, but last season he was as critical as ever about Tyreke.

But that's besides the point. This thread is about IT, not about biased posters. Back to my original point, Baja said that IT could be trying to prove people wrong, what with him being picked #60 and all that. The latest Cowbellkingdom article only seems to support that idea. All I want is for IT to prove he belongs in the league by being more of a playmaker than a scorer, at least while he is on the Kings with Cousins and Evans. As I have said before, he is a good passer and does have good court vision. It's all a matter of priorities for him.

his goal is to go out there and "make plays" thats on the coach. If the coach doesn't think he's making the right kind of plays he should be benched or spoken to.

You seem to have a serious hang up on Tyreke for some reason, I didn't even mention him.

 

[mac]

his goal is to go out there and "make plays" thats on the coach. If the coach doesn't think he's making the right kind of plays he should be benched or spoken to.

You seem to have a serious hang up on Tyreke for some reason, I didn't even mention him.

Oh please, if we're going to attribute everything to Smart then every player on the team would be without flaw and protected from criticism. Oh Thornton is a chucker - if Smart has a problem with that he should bench him, don't blame Thornton. Oh, Cousins is checking himself out of games - if Smart has a problem with that he should have a talk with Cuz, don't blame Cousins. But if you want to blame it on Smart that's fine with me, I've long thought that he's problem #1 on the team.

 

[UK_King]

I didn't say anything like that.

The gameplan is on the coach, and if it's not going according to plan it's up to him to change it. It's Smart who said IT needs to "make plays."

I don't blame Smart for things like people throwing up terrible shots and turnovers etc etc etc, but i do blame him for the complete lack of offensive structure and nous shown on this team. He's had ample time to install an offensive scheme and he hasn't, or has been unable to do it. It's as simple as that. That is basically where a lot of the problems people describe comes from. A lot of the bad shots on this team taken by IT are because we get down to a point where it's 5/6/7 seconds on the shot clock and someone needs to put up a shot. That happens a lot with reke too, he's forced to drive and create with nothing on and we get the blocks and turns.

I definitely don't like to see IT dribble around not pass and shoot, MT does that too, Cisco does sometimes as well, Outlaw too, all of that is on them, it's bad basketball, that isn't on the coach, thats on them, IT almost always makes sure Cuz is the first person to touch the ball but if the ball is in his hands with 5/6 seconds left i sure hope he's going to do something with it.

I don't blame everything on one person thats what I'm arguing against.

 

[Kingster]

Well then stop treating him like some HOF PG who is the solution to all our offensive woes. Wasn't it you who suggested that IT would shoot .45 from 3 this season? And excuse me for saying this, but you did not extend the same patience to Evans, hiding behind the excuse that you thought he could be great and thus held him to higher standards.

Fine. My goals/expectations were too high. So I was wrong. Doesn't mean the IT bashing is warranted. Kingster's hopes were wrong; therefore I hate IT makes no sense exept to the nutters. (By the way, I wonder how many on this board immediately after Tyreke's first year would have predicted the stats we see out of him this year; I think many would have predicted All-Star status).

Also, I never have said that IT was the solution to all of our woes. Just the best guy available at pg. I still hold to that.

As far as Tyreke, he's now in his 4th year and still can't run a fast break. That's in his 4th year. We see that virtually every game. If you are fine with that for your quarterback, then fine, we part company. Is it his fault, the coache's fault, management's fault? Who the hell knows. But he still can't run a fast break. I don't have any problem saying that IT should be the quarterback if Tyreke can't run a fast break. Doesn't mean that Tyreke can't contribute to the team. He's improved his open outside jump shot. He moves better without the ball. He makes assists. His defense has been better, though not where I thought he'd be after his rookie year. I just don't see him quarterbacking the team.

 

[Kingster]

Read my post again. I in no way or form expect IT to be averaging 10 assists/game before I am satisfied. I meant that I wish he would make that his goal as opposed to scoring 20 points in order to prove people wrong about him. The results will speak for themselves when he makes setting guys up his priorities. There have been games where he's only ended up with 4 assists but where I've given him credit because I saw him making a clear effort to set guys up first. I actually thought that he did a decent job of that in the Washington game, and you will find no criticism of IT from me based on that game alone.

Now you are saying that Lowry, Lin, Lillard are more natural PGs than IT. No one would have said that last season. Last season IT was a good, passing PG that we needed, who some thought could average 8 apg. Now you are saying that IT is "running" an offense that consists of NO set plays and that it's hard to put up assists on this team. Tyreke's critics didn't give a **** about that fact when Tyreke was at PG. When Tyreke got Salmons wide open in the corner and Salmons bricked 3 after 3, Gary said that Tyreke's passes weren't good thus resulting in Salmons not being able to hit. Now Kingster says that PG is a hard position to learn, that he gives players 3 years to see how they develop, but last season he was as critical as ever about Tyreke.

But that's besides the point. This thread is about IT, not about biased posters. Back to my original point, Baja said that IT could be trying to prove people wrong, what with him being picked #60 and all that. The latest Cowbellkingdom article only seems to support that idea. All I want is for IT to prove he belongs in the league by being more of a playmaker than a scorer, at least while he is on the Kings with Cousins and Evans. As I have said before, he is a good passer and does have good court vision. It's all a matter of priorities for him.

Hey, get off of it. Last year Tyreke REGRESSED. And forget about him playing out of position; if you can't hit an outside shot, you can't hit it, regardless of position. If IT is worse next year than his first two years then I'll be no different. This is the way it works: rookies get a total pass, 2nd year guys somewhat of pass, 3rd year guy just a little pass, and 4th year guys get no pass. Even using that regiment, I would have been ripping on Steve Nash in his 4th year, obviously an exception, so point guards can take even longer.

Also, IT needs to continue to score to be effective in this league. That is an ASSET, not a DETRIMENT. If we had consistently great scorers on this team I could at least have some sympathy for your view. But we don't have consistent scorers (other than Cousins when he's not in a funk, which means he is not consistent), and so IT is going to have to step up when they don't score. Heaven forbid if we had a guy at pg who couldn't score. Then you'd see even more carnage than we've witnessed. I wonder if Jimmer would somehow develop his dribbling and get some quickness whether you would muffle him also? Would you tell him to restrict his shooting to 10 shots a game? Seriously, if the guy can score, you better use it.

 

[Padrino]

I really do think with the right coach, the right system, and the right role he will continue to improve and be a very solid NBA player.

pardon my incredulity, but who the eff cares? see, this is what i don't get about some kings fans: you never build a team with "the right coach, the right system, and the right role" around a 60th pick in the draft. you just don't do it. if that's what isaiah thomas needs to succeed in this league, to become "a very solid nba player," well... then good luck to him, but the facts of the case are these: no team is gonna cater to thomas' every need, because there will always be players higher up in the pecking order than him. it's why diminutive gunners like nate robinson bounce around the league year in and year out, no matter how much perceived talent they may have. they just aren't a priority. however, your 5th pick with the potential to be a franchise center?! that's the guy you build around with "the right coach, the right system, and the right role." and if the midget chucker you picked 60th refuses to pass to your best player in the pick and roll, well then he's either on the bench until he learns his place or he's on his way out of town, because the development of your best young talents must always supersede the proclivities of your lesser talents. it's rebuilding 101. ****, i mean, oklahoma city traded james harden to houston because they understand the pecking order. it's not s if harden isn't an excellent player, but kevin durant, russell westbrook, and serge ibaka are the core of that team, and if you have to sacrifice a sixth man of the year in order to keep them together, you do it, no questions asked. the thunder remain in second place in the western conference, and only one game out of first place, in spite of the loss of harden. i'd say they made the right choice. now, isaiah thomas isn't a fraction of the player that harden is, so i have no idea why so many at kf.com are intent on rushing to his defense at every turn. he's a nice backup-level guy with a good attitude who's worthwhile to have in your locker room. but he's highly expendable. he's not the future. he's barely the present, and kings fans would be much better off if they stopped chasing fool's gold around the gym...

 

[UK_King]

Can't stand the word "midget," Ugh.