I think Brad Miller will be traded!
- Thread starter TheJoker
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Lol. C'mon Brick! You said I was marching on as someone who is puzzled and doesn't understand the value of a shotblocker. Then you said to find you a link saying the Hornets made a questionable trade. You said that they do not exist. Well, I provided you with five. Take them for what they are worth, but not everyone thinks as highly of Dampier or Chandler like you do. I could get more links, but quite frankly it just isn't worth the time. I guess if we ever participate in a simulation league together you can have Dampier and I'll take Miller. Have a nice day.
And if you note, I admitted you found some sources. Unfortunately they include a flimflam numbers man who I ignore at every opportunity and then a bunch of guys not saying what you contended they were saying, nor for the reasons you thought they were saying it. Didn't read every word of every link, but did any of those articles say the move made New Orleans worse ON THE COURT?
As for Brad or Dampier -- what's the rest of the team look like? If you think you are winning anything with a Brad/Dirk/Van Horn frontline...well, I just have absolutely no idea what to say. Do have a nice bridge to sell you though. And some tonic guaranteed to put hair on you chest.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Oh lord -- that excuse again. That was the great SAR excuse last year too. Only in Sacramento would we have an epidemic of "its because he's blocking out" excuses made for our sad rebounding. As if nobody else in the league blocks out. As if all of this incredible effort allegedly spent on blocking out might have resulted in something a tad better than being one of the worst rebounding teams in the league.
You know what I see when I watch? A physically weak groundbound center who does not move his feet well, gets routinely beat to the spot, gets pushed around, and once or twice every game just has his opponent reach right over him and take the ball away.
Fair enough. We have all seen that side of Brad. I still think that trading Miller right now is the absolute wrong time to do so. Plain and simple: there isn't talent available to replace him. The players I'd rather have aren't available. I still don't understand why people are talking about Dampier.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
See Kings113's post -- as far as I know nobody suggested trading Brad for Dampier, but at least one somebody seemed to feel that the Dampier/Diop combo didn't have anythign to do wiht the Mavs unprecedented push this year and they would have been better off with Brad.
walker60
Bench
If they had Miller instead of Dampier that would not be ridiculous. A Miller/Diop combo would be a very good rotation at C.
I still disagree. Part of Diop playing well this season and in the playoffs is because he knew Dampier was there behind him (most of the season) as a similar big man to him. Which helped him relax and not have all the pressure on him as the sole regular-minute defensive and interior big man.
Brad wouldn't of had near a similar effect because Brad is soft defensively, and he was garbage in the playoffs this season outside of 1 good scoring game in G3. Even if Avery got Brad back to hustling and all that like in 03-04 and before, it wouldn't be better than what Dampier brings defensively. Also, how effective and consistent would that be now? (On a side note, I wonder about that last sentence for us, and would it be worth waiting out....)
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walker60
Bench
You forgot Diop. Van Horn might not be back. You forgot Mbenga too.
So for a front line they could have this:
C: Miller/ Diop
PF: Dirk/ Mbenga
That's a pretty good frontline. Then there's the 7'5" guy and Powell as well for young developing bigs. I think that would win quite a few games.
Oh and yes, some of those articles said that NO didn't get any better on the court. Oh, and I already have plenty of hair on my chest.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No, you're still missing the point of what they did:
PF = 48 min of soft. Dirk and Van Horn
C = 48 minute of tough. Dampier, Diop, MBenga.
There is no option to replace part of their center duo with yet more soft or the whole combination becomes doughy just like the bad ole days and they are out again in Rnd 2 to the Spurs.
It still amazes me that people can watch the very clear progression in Dallas without any real understanding of how/why it happened. Its sitting out there clear as day for the world to see. They set the all offense approach aside, loaded up on big tough intimmidators, and voila! Its a miracle! Next thing you know championships will be won by Duncan, Big Ben, Shaq etc. etc.....oh.
nbrans
All-Star
This is all apples to oranges. Defensive vs. offensive. It's a case where it doesn't always make sense to analyze players in a vacuum. Diop/Dampier are great fits in Dallas because Dirk has great offense and he's weak on defense.
On the right team Miller's a great fit because he brings offense, stretches the defense with his jump shot and is a good passer. And really, with the guards-in-the-post offense that the Kings suddenly have with Artest and possibly Bonzi, Miller is the best possible center for the Kings to hvae from an offensive perspective. The bigs can't cheat helping out on Bonzi and Artest because Miller will hurt them from the outside.
With a defensive/rebounding power forward specialist Miller would look a lot better. But I think the who's better Miller or Dampier argument kind of misses the point. They're both good at what they do, and in the right situation they'll thrive.
On the right team Miller's a great fit because he brings offense, stretches the defense with his jump shot and is a good passer. And really, with the guards-in-the-post offense that the Kings suddenly have with Artest and possibly Bonzi, Miller is the best possible center for the Kings to hvae from an offensive perspective. The bigs can't cheat helping out on Bonzi and Artest because Miller will hurt them from the outside.
With a defensive/rebounding power forward specialist Miller would look a lot better. But I think the who's better Miller or Dampier argument kind of misses the point. They're both good at what they do, and in the right situation they'll thrive.
nbrans
All-Star
Hopefully everyone can agree on that point.
Padrino
All-Star
typically i would agree with you, and i will agree with you come next season if brad's rebounding numbers go up, but its too much to ask of a starting PF to cover both brad's defensive weaknesses as well as his rebounding deficiencies. dirk may be a "soft" PF because he's a jump shooter, but he averaged 9 rebs/game in the regular season, and 11 in the playoffs. minutes were split between dampier and diop at C, and they averaged about 13 rebs/game between the two during the regular season, with van horn chipping in almost 4 in limited minutes. that's why it worked in dallas. everyone did their part on the boards in the minutes they were given. when brad miller averages somewhere between 9-10 rebs/game, then we can talk about the effectiveness of pairing him with a defensive/rebounding PF. until then, though, we're still gonna be a weak rebounding team, as there's nobody short of ben wallace that could improve matters in our front line.
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walker60
Bench
Dampier helped him relax? Sorry not following you there. Also, you forgot Mbenga too. Diop wouldn't be the only defensive big man. And don't tell me that Mbenga is too unknown or the he is too unexperienced. That's what everyone thought about Diop, but he turned out to be a decent 20-minute a night big man. Mbenga can do the same.
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R
Rome
Guest
Dirk's not as weak on defense as Brad. He's quick and can grab rebounds.
Uncle Ducker
Prospect
At this point I'm willing to trade Miller for Stephen Jackson, a second round pick, and cash considerations. Having Miller on the floor is like playing best ball foursome with one 30+ handicap. Having Miller on the floor is like going on vacation with digital cameras and one guy bringing film. Having Miller on the floor is like Garnett going to college so he can get a good job after his NBA career is over. In fact, the only "Miller" I want on the floor is spilt beer after someone tosses a half empty cup in disgust after Miller falls down and grabs an opposing player running in a fast break in revenge. B-52? What a joke. The B must stand for his cup size.
nbrans
All-Star
That wasn't my point, but ok.
walker60
Bench
KVH isn't going to come back. Replace his offensive skills with Miller. Replace Dampier's defnesive skills with Mbenga. Voila! You have a better team! So look at this:
C: Miller 28 mpg of softness. Diop 20 minutes of toughness.
PF: Dirk 35 minutes of softness. Mbenga 13 minutes of toughness.
That lineup is much better than last years. Oh and by the way, Dampier doesn't intimidate too many people. He's big, but he's lazy and lacks effort.
All that toughness you talk about didn't help much in the playoffs. Dampier got lit up by Duncan. It was the 'softness' (Dirk, playing 2 PG's at the same time) that won the series. Having versatility helps, having a offensive and defensive C makes sense. Heck, Dampier comes off the bench, go ahead and bring Miller off the bench too if you want. Either way, a team is better off with Miller than they are with Dampier.
Don't you remember last year's playoffs when everyone in Dallas was screaming at each other and Dirk was publicly criticizing Dampier's lack of effort/talent? The only way they fixed that was by benching him so he could play more against 2nd string Centers. It seemed to work, you know why? Because Dampier is a good second string C. He's big and has good physical tools, but he just doesn't have the effort and basketball IQ to be a good starting Center, unless of course, it is his contract year.
Yes, Damp took pressure off Diop so he wasn't the only defensive big having to do everything, he knew he had Dampier to back him up. It's a little thing that has gone into his progression and improvement as a player. Along with the Mavericks team, and defense.
Mbenga wasn't a regular-minute or good-minute-amount playing big, he was the third center. He's still pretty raw and foul prone, tries to block everything. He wasn't an impact player like Diop and Dampier were for Dallas because of the aforementioned.
Hence why I didn't include him.
Diop has more time playing basketball, and training to get better. Which is how he did in the 2005 summer with marc jackson. He impressed the Mavs, and everything else went from there.
hammystyle
Starter
Miller has led the team in +/- for three straight seasons (although Artest was very close this year). Ever since he has been on the team the Kings have been a lot better when he's on the floor than when he's off it (more so than any one else on the team). Part of this has been the lack of a decent backup, but the numbers are still there.
Check out 82games.com
A
AriesMar27
Guest
if miller only had to play 20 minutes a game im sure he would have better numbers than dampier.....
and if the kings were paying dampier 10 million a year to come off the bench and immediately get into fould trouble, all of you would start riots after every kings loss...... dampier averages more fouls than miller yet plays 15 fewer minutes thats more than an entire qtr of playing time.... he would average 5 fouls a game for the mavs if he played 38 minutes a game.....
and if the mavs had lost to the spurs or suns, dampier would be the one to blame.... it wasnt millers fault that the kings lost to the spurs.....
and if the kings were paying dampier 10 million a year to come off the bench and immediately get into fould trouble, all of you would start riots after every kings loss...... dampier averages more fouls than miller yet plays 15 fewer minutes thats more than an entire qtr of playing time.... he would average 5 fouls a game for the mavs if he played 38 minutes a game.....
and if the mavs had lost to the spurs or suns, dampier would be the one to blame.... it wasnt millers fault that the kings lost to the spurs.....
Actually, it was Diop shutting down Duncan in overtime of Game 7 that won that series.
Indeed, Slim.
And, the ignorance rolls on...
Brad averaged 9 and 2 in the Spurs series. 6 points down, 6 rebounds down, 2 asissts down, 10% FG down, from what he did in the regular season. Along with playing soft defense, and not putting anyone on the floor, or acting as any kind of a prescence or intimidator. All the guy did in that series, was have one good scoring game in G3.
I'd say he's a key reason why we lost the series. The guy disappeared for 5 games offensively, and six games everything else.
And, the ignorance rolls on...
Brad averaged 9 and 2 in the Spurs series. 6 points down, 6 rebounds down, 2 asissts down, 10% FG down, from what he did in the regular season. Along with playing soft defense, and not putting anyone on the floor, or acting as any kind of a prescence or intimidator. All the guy did in that series, was have one good scoring game in G3.
I'd say he's a key reason why we lost the series. The guy disappeared for 5 games offensively, and six games everything else.
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Sac.Kings
All-Star
True, but he had to play major minutes so that is a factor as well. No execuses though, he is over 7ft tall, if he can't get more than 3 rebounds a game, than he is truly one of a kind.
R
Rome
Guest
Brad Miller was not only the reason we lost this year in the playoffs but also last season's playoffs and the one before that too.
Well, last year was different because of the injury. But yes, he is a reason why we didn't play the Sonics well. In 04 I thought he was good...
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...Why is it that when someone holds a different opinion they are ignorant? Do tell!
