How would Top Centres fair with the Kings current roster

[KingMilz]

(Title meant to say bigs not centres)
DeMarcus takes a lot of crap for his low shooting % and rightfully so, my question is how do you think players like Dwight Howard, Brook Lopez, Blake Griffin, the Gasol Brothers, Bynum, Kevin Love and any other top bigsI might have missed would fair while being surronded by the current squad make up we have and what kind of impact they would have compared to where they are now?

Keep in mind they don't have a good playmaker, poor floor spacing and bad bad offense in general where they would hardle get any easy buckets.

 

[IfAt1st]

I have noticed the difference between Kings big men and most others for a long time now - I see other teams regularly penetrating and dishing off to the big man for an easy bucket or uncontested rebound. It is baffling to me that with the Kings' offense defined around "penetrating", they get far less easy buckets for their big man than just about any other team I can remember in the league.
The Kings' spacing and playsets are so bad, the other teams can somehow cover both the penetrator AND the big guy in the paint - I am not an X's and O's guy, so I don't know what other teams are doing that's different than the Kings.

I simply don't see other teams' bigs given the ball at 20 feet out from the basket and forced to "make something happen".

 

[HereWeBoogie]

It is baffling to me that with the Kings' offense defined around "penetrating", they get far less easy buckets for their big man than just about any other team I can remember in the league.

because other teams big men get in the right positions for the easy pass for the dunk. while our big men hang out 18ft from the hoop

 

[rainmaker]

It's a few things.

To get dumpoffs for bigs, first you need penetration. The only guy we have right now who can regularly penetrate, and penetrates to create in Reke. Brooks plays outside, comes off screens firing, and rarely gets into the teeth of the defense. IT is not penetrating with much success this year, and when he does he's looking more for his own shot and unfortunately turning the ball over at an increasing rate when penetrating into traffic. Jimmer has had a few nice dump offs, but he too is coming off screens looking to shoot or looking for his runner in the paint. MT is MT.

We also don't have a resemblance of a motion offense, or really any offense, which makes it easier for the guards to get inside off movement and on the ball screens. If we're iso'ing Brooks, Jimmer or IT up top and expecting them to break their man down, draw help in the paint and create opportunities for our bigs, then we'll be disappointed with the results. If these guys were constantly curling off screens and there was more movement all together, forcing the defense to make decisions, help, switch, that's where gaps are opened up. That of course would require running an offense which we appear to not have. Even when Reke does get into the teeth of the defense, it's not usually because Smart ran something to make it easier for him but rather it's based off Reke's natural talent, and we don't have another player with the natural talent to just beat his guy 1v1 and cause the defense to collapse.

Dumpoffs are created when you force the defense to react, to move, to shift, to make decisions, and the easiest offense to defend is what we run, an iso heavy offense with little movement. Guys just sag off our players in help position and we're not doing anything to cause defenses to have to make decisions.

Then there's the aspect that Cuz prefers to stay outside. He's lining up for jumpers most of the time, and prefers a pick and pop or spotting up 15 ft away than rolling hard to the paint. Only success we've really had with getting Cuz on the move and hitting him for a dunk/layup is when he and Reke run the two man game, but Smart seems intent on not allowing them to do it that much.

JT gets himself into good positions for dumpoffs, and is probably our best big at finding that gap in the defense looking for a dump off. Chuck is slow and short. Even when he does get a dump off he has a tough time converting given he's the height of most SG's and has the same vertical as my grandma.

So really, it's lack of penetration from anyone other than Reke looking to create, bigs who prefer staying outside or are undersized inside, and lack of an offense with movement which creates openings/lanes by forcing the defense to move and make decisions.

 

[SacTownKid]

because other teams big men get in the right positions for the easy pass for the dunk. while our big men hang out 18ft from the hoop

And when they are under it, it's usually for the offensive rebound.

 

[UK_King]

We really don't do anything inventive to get Cuz decent position, if he gets the ball down low generally he wants to face up anyway.

Most of the time he's collecting the ball at the high post and just shooting or going one on one, yeah he has a good mid range game for a big but I'd rather see him with his back to the basket way way way more, I'd be stunned if any other team used Cousins in the way we do.

 

[CruzDude]

We really don't do anything inventive to get Cuz decent position, if he gets the ball down low generally he wants to face up anyway.

Most of the time he's collecting the ball at the high post and just shooting or going one on one, yeah he has a good mid range game for a big but I'd rather see him with his back to the basket way way way more, I'd be stunned if any other team used Cousins in the way we do.

Bajaden here again. When Cuz played at Kentucky, he never left the post. Thats why no one knew he even had a jumpshot, because he never ever got far away from the basket to shoot one. If he's playing away from the basket, its because its what they want him to do. Or, they're simply leaving it up to him to decide. Either way, its on the coach!

 

[mac]

Bajaden here again. When Cuz played at Kentucky, he never left the post. Thats why no one knew he even had a jumpshot, because he never ever got far away from the basket to shoot one. If he's playing away from the basket, its because its what they want him to do. Or, they're simply leaving it up to him to decide. Either way, its on the coach!

Well when Smart took over Cuz did express delight in being able to go outside more. And then you've got him coming into the season supposedly working on his 3 point shooting ... I'd much rather Cuz work on his post game, because at the moment he doesn't have much of one. What he does have is quickness that allows him to get around other bigs, but not the extension and explosiveness to finish around the rim

 

[rainmaker]

Well when Smart took over Cuz did express delight in being able to go outside more. And then you've got him coming into the season supposedly working on his 3 point shooting ... I'd much rather Cuz work on his post game, because at the moment he doesn't have much of one. What he does have is quickness that allows him to get around other bigs, but not the extension and explosiveness to finish around the rim

And who did Cuz say told him to work on his 3pt shot during the summer and shoot them if he puts in the work?


Keith Smart.


Smart is the reason Cuz isn't down low, but, I also think Cuz is a threat from outside, elbow extended in the high post. Thing I really don't get is that Smart has had Cuz outside since he took over as head coach, and the number of times we've actually run a competent high post offense off him is minimal. Westy used to get Cuz up high and run backdoors once or twice every game. We just haven't seen that under Smart. If you're going to play Cuz outside, do everyone a favor and actually run some movement off it. All we see is Cuz getting iso'd 20 ft away, and either facing up and settling for a jumper or attempting to take his defender off the dribble from 20ft out. For every time it's a success, it's also a charge, a turnover or some wild shot.

Cuz at the high post for us is completely different than Webb/Vlade at the high post with constant movement, fades, dives, screens, where we actually utilized their talents. We didn't just straight up repeatedly iso them while Bibby/Peja stood there with their thumbs up their butt watching.

 

[rainmaker]

I might make a thread on this, but look at this movement and the options Miller has compared to what we run with Cuz. Either Bibby or BJax curling from opposite wings, both open for a quick jumper. Constant movement, two pin down screens on opposite side to free Bibby/BJax. We rarely, if ever see even one off the ball screen to free someone off the ball with Cuz. Damn I miss Rick.

Edit: I'd love to hear an explanation as to why, for example, with Jimmer and MT playing together, we didn't do something similar with Cuz at the high post and screens coming for both Jimmer/MT, curling from opposite sides. I'm steadfast with my opinion that while our roster might not fit, the talent we do have can be used a hell of a lot better.

 

[mac]

I might make a thread on this, but look at this movement and the options Miller has compared to what we run with Cuz. Either Bibby or BJax curling from opposite wings, both open for a quick jumper. Constant movement, two pin down screens on opposite side to free Bibby/BJax. We rarely, if ever see even one off the ball screen to free someone off the ball with Cuz. Damn I miss Rick.

Edit: I'd love to hear an explanation as to why, for example, with Jimmer and MT playing together, we didn't do something similar with Cuz at the high post and screens coming for both Jimmer/MT, curling from opposite sides. I'm steadfast with my opinion that while our roster might not fit, the talent we do have can be used a hell of a lot better.

Me Keith Smart, me no understand what is set play and set screen to make play. Me only know run run run get easy basket. Durhh yarh, win championship for Maloof. Dohhhh

 

[IfAt1st]

Edit: I'd love to hear an explanation as to why, for example, with Jimmer and MT playing together, we didn't do something similar with Cuz at the high post and screens coming for both Jimmer/MT, curling from opposite sides. I'm steadfast with my opinion that while our roster might not fit, the talent we do have can be used a hell of a lot better.

EXACTLY.

I've been waiting for Smart (and previously, Westphal) to run common plays like we used to see the Kings run, and currently see other teams run.

It is baffling to me that for 3+ years now, the Kings entire coaching staff has been unable to implement consistent plays that have proven successful elsewhere in the NBA (BTW - this is on Petrie, too - why he doesn't step up and demand the coaches to instill a play is beyond me) . Why do they think this iso **** is a real offense? Because it's been remotely successful here?!

How about this - how about they come to the blatantly-obvious conclusion that this $hit does not work here, and start running some actualy PLAYS? You know - just to mix things up for a CHANGE.

Until I see a Kings coach actually run a play that has proven successful elsewhere and takes advantage of this personnel, I will obviously conclude the major problem with this team is COACHING.

 

[UK_King]

Cuz consistently catches the ball here, generally because we don't do anything to get him deeper position. In this play he gets stripped and turns it over driving into Griffins chest. No one moves or does anything off the ball.

 

[Npliam]

Cuz consistently catches the ball here, generally because we don't do anything to get him deeper position. In this play he gets stripped and turns it over driving into Griffins chest. No one moves or does anything off the ball.

Cuz should be passing it to 1 of the two wide open shooters at the 3 point line.

 

[UK_King]

But they're both skip passes, by the time the ball gets to Salmons or Thornton they'd be covered.

I'd like to see JT with a back screen on MT's man so he can cut under the basket.

 

[UK_King]

Here's a nice play from Boston.

They hit Garnett and then screen for the guard, this would be a nice play for Cuz/Jimmer/MT.

Of course this gets Jason Terry wide open to where he can shoot a three or drive the hoop, here he takes two dribbles and hits a two.

 

[Npliam]

But they're both skip passes, by the time the ball gets to Salmons or Thornton they'd be covered.

I'd like to see JT with a back screen on MT's man so he can cut under the basket.

I know that they wouldn't be open but it would make the defense move and Cuz could establish a better position.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

And who did Cuz say told him to work on his 3pt shot during the summer and shoot them if he puts in the work?


Keith Smart..

ya thats just ****in brilliant..............

 

[UK_King]

ya thats just ****in brilliant..............

"What he needs to do is work on his post game," Smart said. "I told him I don't want him hanging out too much on the perimeter shooting jump shots because in game No. 35 on the road somewhere, you won't be able to find that jump shot."

hmmmm.

 

[rainmaker]

hmmmm.

Reports the Sac Bee: “Coach wants me to shoot the three ball, so I’m still trying to find my spots and where to do it,’ Cousins said of Keith Smart. ‘That’s what this time is for, trying to find it.’ Cousins isn’t looking to become a three-point specialist. He said when his trainer, Keith Williams, encouraged him to work on the three-point shot in years past, he resisted the idea. In his first two seasons Cousins has taken 32 three-point attempts, making five. ‘I’m still not even comfortable being out there, but coach wants me to do it, so I’m going to try to get it down,’ Cousins said

Double hmmmmm.

This is the problem, nothing is defined on this team. No we're seeing the results of that.

 

[The_Jamal]

I might make a thread on this, but look at this movement and the options Miller has compared to what we run with Cuz. Either Bibby or BJax curling from opposite wings, both open for a quick jumper. Constant movement, two pin down screens on opposite side to free Bibby/BJax. We rarely, if ever see even one off the ball screen to free someone off the ball with Cuz. Damn I miss Rick.

Edit: I'd love to hear an explanation as to why, for example, with Jimmer and MT playing together, we didn't do something similar with Cuz at the high post and screens coming for both Jimmer/MT, curling from opposite sides. I'm steadfast with my opinion that while our roster might not fit, the talent we do have can be used a hell of a lot better.

It's amazing we used to run our offense that way night in and night out. I don't think we've seen an offense run that well in the last 4 years

 

[HereWeBoogie]

God wouldnt it be nice to be watching a team anything like that again

 

[HereWeBoogie]

notice how its about the 8 minute mark of the 2nd in that video, the time that Smart always has his crazy preseason lineups in the game. while the Kings team in that video still has a starter or 2 on the floor

 

[ppine]

I like Mac's observations that Cousins has quick feet, but poor extension and explosion to the rim. He might be at his best playing inside/outside. That takes the other team's biggest player (5) away from the hoop because they have to respect his shot. That opens up offensive rebounding for the Kings, that happen to excel in that department.