How willing are KingsFans to wait and see what develops?
- Thread starter CruzDude
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It's going to take some time before the salary cap and personnell debt from the previous regime are expunged and this ownership group can obtain liftoff. They should be in the playoffs in year three when they are playing in the new arena. That's the goal. In the meantime, the team should be known for being mentally and physically tough, a team that brings it every game regardless of the wins and losses. Over the course of the season we should see improvement in both defense and offense.
My suspicion is that the offense might suffer during the first half of the season. Because of the inordinate amount of energy and time devoted to the defense, it may take the players some time before they bring the same focus and energy to the offensive side of the ball. Until they get mentally and physically toned, the offense could be sloppy. The first step is the 20 game marker. At that point you should begin to see some glimmers of where this team is headed.
My suspicion is that the offense might suffer during the first half of the season. Because of the inordinate amount of energy and time devoted to the defense, it may take the players some time before they bring the same focus and energy to the offensive side of the ball. Until they get mentally and physically toned, the offense could be sloppy. The first step is the 20 game marker. At that point you should begin to see some glimmers of where this team is headed.
I think your spot on. If indeed this team is going to emphasis defense, then its going to take some time. And while that's going on, I have no doubt that the offense will suffer a bit, especially since they're looking for more of a motion offense with more ball movement. I would expect that there will be rough edges on both sides of the court for a while, and personally I don't care as long as they stick to it, and make progress. Sometimes you have to take two steps backwards to take one step forward. But if you commit, eventually, all the steps with be forward.
On offense, the Kings are mostly fine. After the all-star break last year, the Kings had one of the best offenses in the league. They just couldn't stop opponents on the other end. Pretty much ever. If the increased focus on defense takes them from bottom of the barrel defense to merely average defense, that's another ten wins over the course of the season.
I don't think the team has the personnel to play anything above average defense though. There is only so much that a coach can do when you have no defensive bigs (other than Chuck Hayes, who kinda doesn't count), and your perimeter defenders are subpar.
I don't think the team has the personnel to play anything above average defense though. There is only so much that a coach can do when you have no defensive bigs (other than Chuck Hayes, who kinda doesn't count), and your perimeter defenders are subpar.
I differ from many Kings fans in that I actually don't think our offense is fine. Our offense was undisciplined, and IMO we had one of the "best offenses" only because we decided to play at a very fast pace. We did not have one of the best offenses, we had one of the highest scoring offenses. But conversely, we also gave up one of the highest number of points. That doesn't mean our offense was good, it just means that we played fast, got quick baskets but gave up a whole lot of baskets the other way. It's naive to think that we can just flip a switch that improves our defense and still score the same number of points. Improved defense means less guys leaking out, more guys crashing the boards, less "cherry picking" since everyone should be down the court playing D, less gambling for steals that would have given us some fast break opportunities but more often than not lead to the opponent having an open lane to the basket.
Pace itself isn't the problem. It's fine to play fast. What I'm saying is it doesn't take a genius to look at our high-scoring offense last year and see that it was largely undisciplined and would be easily shut down by any good defense.
Pace itself isn't the problem. It's fine to play fast. What I'm saying is it doesn't take a genius to look at our high-scoring offense last year and see that it was largely undisciplined and would be easily shut down by any good defense.
Pace has been a major factor on the title teams the last few years. The SA and Miami's of the world want to destroy you in transition. Thats there main objective. The difference between us and them is they can play disciplined half-court offense if they need to and lean on Bron/TP/Duncan to create when times get tough. When times got tough for us, we had Thornton chucking 3s, Reke running into 4 defenders and Boogie trying to ISO 20 feet from the hoop with 5 seconds left on the shot clock.
I'm hoping as fast as the turn around as the Warriors have done. New ownership, new coach etc..and have turned it around in about 2-3 years!! Not bad.
Good thing is the same formula is being used with the Kings being Vivek and Malone coming from GSW. I actually think they will be following the same formula, defense first mentality, and hone and develop youngsters. Barnes and Klay, even Ezeli and Drummond Green are really good players now, outside of GS (or maybe SanAntonio) these players save for Barnes would have been scrubs in different teams IMHO. Also, i believe Malone was the real coach of the Warriors so really excited we got him.
I'm really excited for the Kings this up coming season!! I'm in the BayArea so I'll be following both Warriors and Kings.
Good thing is the same formula is being used with the Kings being Vivek and Malone coming from GSW. I actually think they will be following the same formula, defense first mentality, and hone and develop youngsters. Barnes and Klay, even Ezeli and Drummond Green are really good players now, outside of GS (or maybe SanAntonio) these players save for Barnes would have been scrubs in different teams IMHO. Also, i believe Malone was the real coach of the Warriors so really excited we got him.
I'm really excited for the Kings this up coming season!! I'm in the BayArea so I'll be following both Warriors and Kings.
Everything I've read on the Warriors situation was that Malone was the X's and O's guy while Jackson managed the players rotations, motivated, etc. I'm hoping that Malone and staff is able to manage the players and the egos....based on what we have heard reputation wise and results for other teams, this staff will know how to attack or defend teams....just a matter of getting the right roster together eventually.
I agree with you here. But that said ... while SA and Miami want to destroy you in transition, SA was 13th in Fast break PPG and Miami 20th. We were 4th (and that's with the complaints of Reke not knowing how to run a fast break etc). So I find it interesting how the two teams that want to push the pace aren't actually one of the top teams in transition points scored. That may suggest that when you play good disciplined D it really limits your transition opportunities. Or that teams won't give up fast break points as willingly when they know they can't just go down the other end and get those points back.
Mike Malone will have this team focused, and ready to finally compete...not looking for the next high draft pick. The mindset of building for the future, is now being replaced with one that will have the Kings looking to build and grow day by day..towards a playoff birth this year. It all starts with a change in mindset. Getting players to begin to stop worrying less about how many touches they are getting, how many minutes, how many shots..etc etc .. Transforming that cancerous mindset with one more team oriented and centered not on stats, but wins. Beginning with team defense .. It all starts with how players buy into the system, and are willing to sacrifice their ego's, for what is best for the team at large.. I've known Mike Malone since he was in diapers. Know his dad, know how he thinks, know how hard he works, and cares. This team is in very very good hands. When you see the little things happening in practice, that then begin to happen in games ..the sacrifices from "me", to "team" in player press conferences.. that's when you know the climate has changed to a winning one.
Trust in Mike Malone ...kid is a pit bull. That tough, hard working vibe he gives off is contagious.. Winning will be becoming a fabric of this franchise very soon, folks.
Trust in Mike Malone ...kid is a pit bull. That tough, hard working vibe he gives off is contagious.. Winning will be becoming a fabric of this franchise very soon, folks.
Wins do not matter to me this season. What's more important is we start to establish a core of guys we want around Cousins and we see improvement in play from those guys we want to move forward with. A consistent rotation, establishing Cousins as a #1 option, and seeing effort defensively are the main things I hope to see this year.
I really think we are in a good place. With Cousins we have a number 1 option capeable of 20-10 seasons and if he continued to get better at defense he is a top 10 player. You add in Mclemore who is an elite shooter and has great defensive potential and that 2 key players. I also believe that Mike Malone is the real deal and our defense will be in the top 10 every year. I like Vasquez but would rather see him come off the bench. We need to get 1 more go to man who can create for them self as I believe mclemore is better suited to be a 3rd option. We have good vets who know there role with landry, PP, Mbah A Moute, and Vasquez,
Things I want to see from the coaching staff and front office in regular season.
- Consistent rotations and lineups. This one is a little tough because one of the Kings' very few strengths is the depth on the bench. At the 1, 2, and 4 we have 3 serviceable options. The 3 is still thin with Mbah being the only serviceable player there, and we have nobody other than JT suited to fill in at the 5 behind Cousins. If Malone can make sense of the roster and find 8-10 guys and play them in consistent lineups with consistent minutes game to game, that is a huge step up from Smart.
- Focus on player development for the first time in, well, ever. We have so many young players, and so many of them that have been denied real guidance by the ineptitude of the coaching staff and FO over the last few years. I want to see coaches working with players on one or two specific skills and master those skills. Get Cousins that go-to post move. Get McLemore working on tight man defense. Get McCallum to develop a mid-range pullup or a floater. Get Jimmer and IT to learn to read incoming screens better. Taking a young kid and telling them to improve their overall game will not do anything. They become Caron Butlers instead of Paul Pierces that way.
- Some activity on the trade market. The team is deep, but weak at the top. We need clear starters at the 3 and 4. We have two players that can hold down the starting 1 and if McLemore gets better, the 2, but our forward slots are weak positionally. Any chance to package up some of our depth and pick up a decent starter for either of those positions should be the goal during the season. Vasquez, Thomas, Thornton, Landry, Thompson, P-Pat, and Fredette all have some trade value, and are not irreplaceable on the team right now. Salmons expiring has some trade value. It's all about finding the good option and pouncing when it becomes available.
Looking forward, which players do you view as franchise cornerstones?
“DeMarcus Cousins – to me, he’s one of the most talented big men in the League. He’s obviously a key. I think Isaiah Thomas has been a really nice player for the Kings. I think he’s a good guy – especially for our young guards like Ben McLemore and Ray McCallum – to learn from (as far as) his work ethic, his poise, his approach to the game, his mental toughness. He’s a nice veteran. Jason Thompson, I think is coming along nicely. There’s a bunch of guys – all of them have strengths – (but) I think the key is going to be how they can come together, because individual numbers don’t really translate into success.”
Chris Mullin interview
This is the second time Isaiah has been mentioned as a core member of the team I think whoever does better in malone system will be the one we resign (Vasquez & IT). Also I agree with Mullins the way Thompson played the other night he looked like a new man if he is able to play defense like that a keeps developing chemistry with Cousins than he is a definite keeper
“DeMarcus Cousins – to me, he’s one of the most talented big men in the League. He’s obviously a key. I think Isaiah Thomas has been a really nice player for the Kings. I think he’s a good guy – especially for our young guards like Ben McLemore and Ray McCallum – to learn from (as far as) his work ethic, his poise, his approach to the game, his mental toughness. He’s a nice veteran. Jason Thompson, I think is coming along nicely. There’s a bunch of guys – all of them have strengths – (but) I think the key is going to be how they can come together, because individual numbers don’t really translate into success.”
Chris Mullin interview
This is the second time Isaiah has been mentioned as a core member of the team I think whoever does better in malone system will be the one we resign (Vasquez & IT). Also I agree with Mullins the way Thompson played the other night he looked like a new man if he is able to play defense like that a keeps developing chemistry with Cousins than he is a definite keeper
Agreed. While it seems like JT has peaked as a good 3rd big, look at his (lack of) coaching and it's not hard to see him go up another notch to solid starter. He's got the size and athleticism, and while he's shown a bit of everything in his career, it's never been all at once. He's always put in the effort and good attitude, so maybe now he can put it all together next to Cuz and Coach Malone.
5 games into the pre-season and a lot of encouragement for us fans is coming out of the games. Progress is visible for the first time in a big bunch of years. PPat has stepped it up a whole level. McLemore (MLM) is showing his abilities already, way ahead of schedule. So did McCallum on a lesser scale as becoming an NBA PG is a much more difficult transition than for SG. Outlaw is showing his stuff for a change. JT is much improved. Cuz is more awesome. And we have yet to see minutes from Mbah a Moute (MAM). Jimmer is showing he belongs in every game. IT, to me, is better team asset off the bench. Same for MT during what might be his somewhat short tenure this year.
This all adds up to progress much sooner than we expected. Since Malone is not shooting for playoffs this year progress may become even more accelerated. I'm more willing to wait now than even 3 weeks ago.
This all adds up to progress much sooner than we expected. Since Malone is not shooting for playoffs this year progress may become even more accelerated. I'm more willing to wait now than even 3 weeks ago.
I'm a little late responding to this, so I apologize for being a Johnny come lately. However, you nailed it! Its extremely difficult to be fast break, run and gun team, and play good defense as well. As a matter of fact, it may just be impossible. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. If you push the ball every time down the floor, it becomes impossible to get back and defend every time. I've yet to see a team win a championship without a good halfcourt game. As a matter of fact, a good defensive team, will force you into a halfcourt game, and if you can't play that game, you lose. Just ask the Phoenix Suns, a team that was built around the fast break. They made the playoff's every year, but that was about it.
last season the Kings went to a fast paced game, and all it was, was a band aid. Cosmetic's to disguise our lack of team offense. Seriously, there were times when we were in our halfcourt, where we looked like five guys running around with their heads cut off. What we had last season were scorers without an offense of any kind. No plan, just five guys doing what they wanted. As Cousins replied, when asked if it was difficult to be learning yet another offense, and he said no, this is my first one.
last season the Kings went to a fast paced game, and all it was, was a band aid. Cosmetic's to disguise our lack of team offense. Seriously, there were times when we were in our halfcourt, where we looked like five guys running around with their heads cut off. What we had last season were scorers without an offense of any kind. No plan, just five guys doing what they wanted. As Cousins replied, when asked if it was difficult to be learning yet another offense, and he said no, this is my first one.
And what it looks like we may have this season is roles for everyone, starters and rotation as well. On offense we're starting to see good spacing, off ball movement, passing and team ball. Evidence in pre-season has been 20+ assists in last 3 games and lower TO's. A start but progress and improvement none-the-less. Based on results from only 5 preseason games I'll comfortably wait the year, assuming progress continues even slowly, and see what the draft and summer league brings. Next year we should begin to see a step to a second level and a 40+ win season.
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C
If the front office is competent, 3 years is a realistic number. Mike Malone to me is a basketball mind that knows what he's doing. Give him the right roster and he will succeed. I have doubt about Cousins and Vazquez leading the team. Vasquez just isn't that vocal team leader he needs to be. Cousins is spoiled and we never know what we get out of him. Ideally, in the near future the Kings will acquire a true floor general. Doesn't need to be a PG. The Kings to me right now don't have that one absolute team leader out there on the floor.
C
3 years to become an upper echelon team that is. As for the playoffs, we have enough talent to sneak in as early as next season IMO. Malone will need a full season to install his defense. There will be times this season when the defense looks great and timess when it looks bad. Absolutely do not expect consistency on that end this season. It takes time.
C
This is correct. I'm a warriors fans who also follow the Kings. Malone drew up virtually all crunch-time x's and o's on defense, and regularly did it with offense as well. All season long, we rarely saw Jackson with a white board in his hands. Jackson was capable, but he was learning from Malone. Ownership made that pretty clear.
We'll all get sick of hearing it from Malone keeping things somewhat close to the vest and not telling us what we think we want to hear. In developing a culture I imagine he needs to get all 15 players on the same page every day, every game. To do that he needs to eliminate the ego's from wishing this or wishing that stature from players who were allowed to do their own thing in the past year or so. It is very hard to accept I imagine the real "team" concept and the best team mix for any situation. Not the best players in a group but the best group regardless of the players.
The way the 7 game preseason went, I'm more encouraged (than after only 5 games) to stick with Malone's plan and see how it goes. Never been done before in Sactown for sure. And what was tried the past 7 years didn't work. So if it ain't broke, don't fix it. So far the 15 cylinders seem to be on the same crankshaft of the lumbering vehicle. Maybe if all 15 hit in proper sync that lumbering vehicle becomes smoother running and with a nice turbo fix from a promising rookie, who knows?
The way the 7 game preseason went, I'm more encouraged (than after only 5 games) to stick with Malone's plan and see how it goes. Never been done before in Sactown for sure. And what was tried the past 7 years didn't work. So if it ain't broke, don't fix it. So far the 15 cylinders seem to be on the same crankshaft of the lumbering vehicle. Maybe if all 15 hit in proper sync that lumbering vehicle becomes smoother running and with a nice turbo fix from a promising rookie, who knows?