How great is Michael Phelps?

PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
Is he the greatest athlete ever? I think Phelps is definitely one of the top contenders (and amazing competitors) on any list along with likes (or dislikes) of Jim Thorpe, Pele, Michael Jordan, Jim Brown, Mark Spitz, Muhammed Ali, Lou Gehrig, Bo Jackson, Wilt Chamberlain, Jessie Owens, Wayne Gretzky, Lance Armstrong, Carl Lewis, Secratariat(the horse), Tiger Woods, etc.

I guess if Michael Phelps goes on to win a slew of more gold metals at the London Olympics in 2012 when he'll still be just 27, it will cement him way up on any list of all-time greats.

At the very least, his performance over 8 days at the Beijing 2008 games that started 08-08-08 netting him a record 8 gold metals was stunning, unforgettable, sports drama that may never be topped at any future Olympics.
 
He's the best Olympic swimmer in history. It speaks for itself.

I don't really know how that measures to other sports, I remember when I was young the Decathlon was the pinnacle of individual events of the Olympics. 10 events, multiple skills, 2 days. There's only one medal for that, so perhaps that is why it has fallen out of favor. Or perhaps because its 10 events in 2 days it doesn't make as good TV as 8 swimming contests over a week.

Anyhow, Phelps' achievement is awesome and I'm glad I saw each race.
 
He not only won 8 gold in one Olympics, he has smashed the record for total gold medals won by one athlete ever in the Olympics. There were four athletes with 9 gold medals, he now has 14! :eek:

It's hard to compare athletes from different eras and different sports, but he just accomplished an astounding feat at the highest level. I certainly wouldn't have a problem voting him number one of all time.

He even broke a world record and won the race with malfunctioning goggles so full of water, he had to count strokes to estimate where the walls were, because he couldn't see them clearly! My god! :eek:
 
Ok...he's great, as is Mark Spitz.

Right now, on day 9 of the Olympics...swimming is over and there's a lot of events still to go..and what is ontheir coverage right now??? Another piece on Michael Phelps. They're recapping each race...again.

Can we move on to other events and other athletes...please?
 
hoopsfan said:
Ok...he's great, as is Mark Spitz.

Right now, on day 9 of the Olympics...swimming is over and there's a lot of events still to go..and what is ontheir coverage right now??? Another piece on Michael Phelps. They're recapping each race...again.

Can we move on to other events and other athletes...please?
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Well, that's not Phelp's fault, poor guy. He actually looks a bit embarrassed by the over-hyping.
 
kennadog said:
Well, that's not Phelp's fault, poor guy. He actually looks a bit embarrassed by the over-hyping.
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Forty minutes into primetime coverage....

Can't he decline another interview and spend more time relaxing and enjoying other events? I don't see the embarrassment though. He's proud and rightly so, but enough already.
Did anyone else notice how tired the other swimmers were of answering questions about Phelps, instead of their own races?
 
hoopsfan said:
Forty minutes into primetime coverage....

Can't he decline another interview and spend more time relaxing and enjoying other events? I don't see the embarrassment though. He's proud and rightly so, but enough already.
Did anyone else notice how tired the other swimmers were of answering questions about Phelps, instead of their own races?
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What other swimmers? :p

Bunch of unaccomplished hacks form the local swimclub -- its like Luke Walton getting tired of answering questions about Kobe. Better get used to it. ;)
 
hoopsfan said:
Forty minutes into primetime coverage....

Can't he decline another interview and spend more time relaxing and enjoying other events? I don't see the embarrassment though. He's proud and rightly so, but enough already.
Did anyone else notice how tired the other swimmers were of answering questions about Phelps, instead of their own races?
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Could he decline another interview? Why should he? He's done something NO OTHER OLYMPIC athlete has ever done.

I like him. I like his genuine love of his sport and don't see any arrogance at all.

I'm very proud for him and his family. They've worked incredibly hard for this moment. And considering he's in a sport that doesn't have a professional off-shoot, I have no problem with granting him his brief bit of fame.
 
VF21 said:
Could he decline another interview? Why should he? He's done something NO OTHER OLYMPIC athlete has ever done.

I like him. I like his genuine love of his sport and don't see any arrogance at all.

I'm very proud for him and his family. They've worked incredibly hard for this moment. And considering he's in a sport that doesn't have a professional off-shoot, I have no problem with granting him his brief bit of fame.
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Gotta agree with this. Swimmer's only get the spotlight once every four years. I don't begrudge him enjoyment of what's he's accomplished.

Frankly, people should be a little gaga over what he's done. If they're not, I think they are underestimating the sports history that just occurred in Beijing and the extreme difficulty of what he achieved. As a fellow swimmer put it, "its mind-boggling."

By "embarrassed", Hoopsie, when the focus was on him in front of his teammates he did look a little embarrassed and clearly tried to steer some attention their way. And rightly so. As he said they are a big part of what he's accomplished and he needed them to be great, too.

While he's clearly proud of what's he's achieved, he doesn't seem to have any arrogance about him, just confidence in himself. I can't say the same about a lot of great athletes.
 
There's nothing like winning the way Phelps has won, especially since it seems like he's breaking a world record every time he gets wet.

I would hesitate to call him the best athlete of all time, though. No doubt he's the most dominant swimmer, but it's hard to compare one sport to the next. And while he's impressive, I think that what Tiger Woods has done, over a long period of time, is more impressive. Jordan's dominance over several seasons was more impressive to me. And so on.

So, no, Michael Phelps is not the greatest athlete of all time. The most impressive Olympian? Sure. But not the greatest athlete.
 
Superman said:
The most impressive Olympian? Sure. But not the greatest athlete.
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Honestly it just doesn't seem right to group swimmers in with other Olympians who train their butts off and work just as hard and only have a shot at one medal every four years.

Why is there this ridiculous need to compare between disciplines? It seems contrary to everything the games are supposed to be about.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Why is there this ridiculous need to compare between disciplines? It seems contrary to everything the games are supposed to be about.
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I totally agree. Michael Phelps is an amazing athlete and an Olympic champion, as are many others. He's the top in his sport and others are tops in theirs. When even someone like Kobe Bryant is humbled (and it appears genuinely so) by the august presence surround him, I think each athlete deserves his/her own accolades without being compared to others in other disciplines.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Honestly it just doesn't seem right to group swimmers in with other Olympians who train their butts off and work just as hard and only have a shot at one medal every four years.

Why is there this ridiculous need to compare between disciplines? It seems contrary to everything the games are supposed to be about.
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That is the beauty of the olympics... hundreds of crushing defeats for each champion. It becomes impossible not to watch... who will come through in that moment in time... that exact moment... thrilling. And to win gold 14 times in the Olympics makes Phelps a sort of champion's champion... sort of a God amongst mere mortals. Who trains that well, gets that lucky, and wins that much... no body... maybe once in a lifetime something like this will happen, maybe. Winning 8 Olympic events is unimaginable achievement; no wonder we are spending so much time on the topic... it is fascinating.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Honestly it just doesn't seem right to group swimmers in with other Olympians who train their butts off and work just as hard and only have a shot at one medal every four years.

Why is there this ridiculous need to compare between disciplines? It seems contrary to everything the games are supposed to be about.
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I don't understand why it's ridiculous and why it's contrary to what the games are about. Can you expand on that?
 
uolj said:
I don't understand why it's ridiculous and why it's contrary to what the games are about. Can you expand on that?
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It is ridiculous because you can not make a case for one athlete without diminishing the accomplishments of another. Its also unnecessary - what Phelps did stands on its own. What Carl Lewis and Jesse Owens did stands on its own. Jim Thorpe stands on his own. So do the countless other non-American athletes who have dominated their competitions and don't even get their names mentioned.

Its against the spirit of the games, which to many (including the IOC) has always been "The important thing is not to win, but to take part". As most of us are US citizens and are fortunate enough to see our country at the top of the medal counts every 4 years we sometimes lose site of this.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
It is ridiculous because you can not make a case for one athlete without diminishing the accomplishments of another. Its also unnecessary - what Phelps did stands on its own. What Carl Lewis and Jesse Owens did stands on its own. Jim Thorpe stands on his own. So do the countless other non-American athletes who have dominated their competitions and don't even get their names mentioned.

Its against the spirit of the games, which to many (including the IOC) has always been "The important thing is not to win, but to take part". As most of us are US citizens and are fortunate enough to see our country at the top of the medal counts every 4 years we sometimes lose site of this.
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While its certainly true that not every athlete in the Olympics is truly playing for the win -- there is just too big a gap to make that realistic especially in the narrowly defined sports like swimming where there is a narrow skill, and only one way to go about it, and you are either better, or not -- to say that the games are not about winning or losing is a rather hopelessly idealistic take on things. Winning is always important in grown up competitions. You make a contest, the most competitive types will rise to the top, and it kills them when they do not win. A large part of the drama. If it was just a big ole party and everybody was happy just to be there, why bother even watching the results? Or trying to be the best?

And really even the guys who are not truly playing for the in know this -- every athlete in the games has already been through rigorous rounds of comeptition, beating opponent after opponent to even get the right to go to the Olympics. And every one of them will dream, however unrealistically, about being the next [fill in the name of the all time great athlete here]. The next Phelps maybe now. Making the Olympics is rgeat -- but the little kids watching the games and drawing inspiration from them are all dreaming of going there to be champions when they grow up.
 
I'm not saying that winning isn't important, that is why they give the medals out. But there's more to the Olympics than just another world championship event, they have a charter and a higher code, and they essentially recognize all events equally, though obviously certain events wind up getting more TV coverage. And so to that end the need to declare somebody the "Greatest Olympian Ever" is missing the point, but I can only speak for me.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I'm not saying that winning isn't important, that is why they give the medals out. But there's more to the Olympics than just another world championship event, they have a charter and a higher code, and they essentially recognize all events equally, though obviously certain events wind up getting more TV coverage. And so to that end the need to declare somebody the "Greatest Olympian Ever" is missing the point, but I can only speak for me.
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I hope I don't offend anyone, but the Jamaican sprinter breaking the world record in the 100M dash without even trying is far more impressive and far more significant than the most dominant badminton player or trampoline artist(?) of all time. Michael Phelps winning 8 gold medals in one year, 14 overall, is more significant than the Dream Team shellacing the international competition with Chuck Daly never so much as calling a timeout.

So while the Olympics are undertaken in a spirit of equality and "all things being equal", some things are just more impressive and more noteworthy than others. And someone going 8-8 in swimming events is the most impressive thing I've seen in the Olympics ever. It's out and out dominance in an event untainted by bias or level of difficulty or any other subjective metric: you just get in and swim, and the fastest one wins.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
And so to that end the need to declare somebody the "Greatest Olympian Ever" is missing the point, but I can only speak for me.
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I feel that this is directed at me for my previous post. Just to clarify, i'm not saying that there is a need to declare anybody the "Greatest Olympian Ever", I would've started a poll if I thought otherwise. I was just asking for opinions since I read in one site that Carl Lewis is still considered as the Greatest Olympian ever because of the fact that he earned his medals from two different sports.

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/114358/Phelps-golden-but-greatest-Olympian-ever-Hmmm
 
sloter said:
http://olympics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/16/phelps-finish-photos-sorry-not-available/

Shady...
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It was close

62593.jpg
 
pdxKingsFan said:
It is ridiculous because you can not make a case for one athlete without diminishing the accomplishments of another. Its also unnecessary - what Phelps did stands on its own. What Carl Lewis and Jesse Owens did stands on its own. Jim Thorpe stands on his own. So do the countless other non-American athletes who have dominated their competitions and don't even get their names mentioned.

Its against the spirit of the games, which to many (including the IOC) has always been "The important thing is not to win, but to take part". As most of us are US citizens and are fortunate enough to see our country at the top of the medal counts every 4 years we sometimes lose site of this.
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Carl Lewis? really now. I would not put Carl Lewis in with Jesse Owens. Atleast Owens did not cheat like Carl did.
 
Superman said:
There's nothing like winning the way Phelps has won, especially since it seems like he's breaking a world record every time he gets wet.

I would hesitate to call him the best athlete of all time, though. No doubt he's the most dominant swimmer, but it's hard to compare one sport to the next. And while he's impressive, I think that what Tiger Woods has done, over a long period of time, is more impressive. Jordan's dominance over several seasons was more impressive to me. And so on.

So, no, Michael Phelps is not the greatest athlete of all time. The most impressive Olympian? Sure. But not the greatest athlete.
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He has pretty much been the dominant swimmer for the last 5 years, not just at the Olympics. He's won multiple golds and medals in many international meets, including world championships, set world records multiple times and he's not done competing yet. He's made 3 Olympic teams and, barring injury, will likely be on it again in 2012. No medals in his first Olympics, but he was only 15. In swimming, that's pretty impressive. I'd say that's comparable to Jordan or Tiger Woods or any star athlete.

Yes Carl Lewis won in more than one sport. Maybe not quite comparable, but Phelps swims 4 completely different strokes that use different muscle groups and completely different techniques. Pretty rare in the age of specialization. For comparison, when Spitz won his seven, he swam only two different strokes.

Still, I think it's very hard to compare athletes across sports and eras. But I don't think you can say Phelps hasn't been dominant over an extended period of time.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Its against the spirit of the games, which to many (including the IOC) has always been "The important thing is not to win, but to take part".
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First, I have to say this idea is pretty silly. If that really was the spirit of the games (it's not), then giving out medals is against the spirit of the games. Sorry, but as long as they're giving out medals there's nothing wrong with discussing which accomplishment is greater than the other.

pdxKingsFan said:
It is ridiculous because you can not make a case for one athlete without diminishing the accomplishments of another. Its also unnecessary - what Phelps did stands on its own. What Carl Lewis and Jesse Owens did stands on its own. Jim Thorpe stands on his own. So do the countless other non-American athletes who have dominated their competitions and don't even get their names mentioned.
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Why does comparing accomplishments have to diminish one or both? I think that's just your perception, unless you think that there should be no comparison whatsoever between Olympic accomplishments (e.g. what the Dream Team accomplished in 1992 shouldn't be compared to what the U.S. team accomplished in 2004 because that would diminish what the 2004 team was able to do). If that's how you feel, fine, but I don't see why it's ridiculous for others to want to have those discussions. We do the same thing on this forum all the time. There really isn't any difference here other than it is the "Olympics".
 
kennadog said:
He has pretty much been the dominant swimmer for the last 5 years, not just at the Olympics. He's won multiple golds and medals in many international meets, including world championships, set world records multiple times and he's not done competing yet. He's made 3 Olympic teams and, barring injury, will likely be on it again in 2012. No medals in his first Olympics, but he was only 15. In swimming, that's pretty impressive. I'd say that's comparable to Jordan or Tiger Woods or any star athlete.

Yes Carl Lewis won in more than one sport. Maybe not quite comparable, but Phelps swims 4 completely different strokes that use different muscle groups and completely different techniques. Pretty rare in the age of specialization. For comparison, when Spitz won his seven, he swam only two different strokes.

Still, I think it's very hard to compare athletes across sports and eras. But I don't think you can say Phelps hasn't been dominant over an extended period of time.
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I honestly didn't realize that his resume was as long as it is, but his dominance hasn't been for as long as Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan.
 
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