How are the Kings going to move Kenny Thomas?

[nbrans]

I'd rather try to get Bell first, but would definitely take Mo. Reason being Charlie's a damn good defender and a very good scorer. But I think Mo CAN be a good defender under the right coach - could well be Muss. As he didn't play much as a rook with the Jazz under Sloan, and only came into his own last season. Obviously Stotts isn't a defensive coach.

I think they'd do that... not sure about a Magloire/Brad FC though.

Mo's 23 and is still improving, Charlie's 27 and is at his peak. I'll take Mo.

 

[NoBonus]

Most of the bad hype about Kenny is because of his height, his attitude and his inconsistency, other than that he's a very good player

That's like saying other than the fact that I am legally blind and experience uncontrolled, violent road-rage, I am a very good driver.

 

[Kings113]

I like Bell better because of his time around the sport, and a much better defender than Mo (think he can be one under the right coach though). Both are good scorers, rebounders, passers.

With that said, I'd take either of them, nbrans.

 

[SacTownKid]

Bring Etan Thomas to Sacramento!!!! Between he and Haywood, Etan would suit what we need more, but if we could get either that would be sweet. If they are looking for a mobile PF and want to play small ball, Kenny is the best option next to Shawn Marion.

 

[Kings113]

Indeed. After that, just would need a defensive back-up center, plenty out there who can be had for part of the MLE or the LLE. Front-court set.

Take care of the back-court issues (Bonzi/back-up PG), and set.

 

[hearns]

In other forums it looks like Nets' fans would do a Thomas for McInnis+Cliff Robinson+ #22. It's an interesting trade for both teams.

 

[WalMatt23]

In other forums it looks like Nets' fans would do a Thomas for McInnis+Cliff Robinson+ #22. It's an interesting trade for both teams.

I would make that trade in a hearbeat! Both Robinson and McInnis (assuming he picks up his player option for 06/07) have contracts that expire after next season whereas thomas' contract goes on for another 4 excruciating years at $6 - $8 million per season.

 

[Squad907]

In other forums it looks like Nets' fans would do a Thomas for McInnis+Cliff Robinson+ #22. It's an interesting trade for both teams.

I'd do it. Get rid of KT's contract for 2 expiring contracts and a second rounder, sweet. Robinson is a good role player, McInnis would offer some scoring off the bench, and we get a chance to find a gem in the draft. Let get it done

 

[hammystyle]

1) I like the Cliffy, McInnis and 22 deal for KT.
2) Etan for KT is marginal. While it fits a need its a serious downgrade in talent. With the way KT plays off the bench though, maybe not.
3) There was also a KT+Bonzi+Hart for Daniels, Calvin Booth, Thomas and the 18th. That's not bad, but if you could get Andray Blatche in there as well for us I think it would be great.
4) Eddie Griffin is a terrible player, and he has emotional problems.
5) KT is a lot better than Stro Swift who's a gifted athlete, but not a good basketball player.

 

[Kings113]

Eddie Griffin hasn't had problems since 2004. What he did was damn bad. Not saying he's a great/good guy now, but he was given a 2nd chance, and hasn't been in trouble since. Unless you mean intensity? No, he usually isn't very intense on the court. Neither is Kenny Thomas. I think with a change of scenery from gloomy Minny to Sac and Arco Arena, EG would show some passion.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Why is it I just don't belive the number oteam lining up to take Kenny is that long?

 

[Kings113]

Wizards supposedly want a mobile PF so they can play more uptempo and small. As they've said lately. KT fits that well.

Wolves have said numerous times in recent time they want a rebounder to help out KG.

Knicks would take him . But, we'd only take Crawford/picks. Don't think taking Lee is the direction we're going in unless he becomes our third PF for a bit.

Bucks could well take him to get some kind of a PF on their team, instead of a bunch of centers, and Joe Smith I'd think can't play 30+-40 mins anymore.

 

[walker60]

1) I like the Cliffy, McInnis and 22 deal for KT.
2) Etan for KT is marginal. While it fits a need its a serious downgrade in talent. With the way KT plays off the bench though, maybe not.
3) There was also a KT+Bonzi+Hart for Daniels, Calvin Booth, Thomas and the 18th. That's not bad, but if you could get Andray Blatche in there as well for us I think it would be great.
4) Eddie Griffin is a terrible player, and he has emotional problems.
5) KT is a lot better than Stro Swift who's a gifted athlete, but not a good basketball player.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said hammystyle.

(1) I like the first trade, because we are dumping a contract and gaining a 1st round pick. Cliffy and McInnis aren't very good though, and they may not help us much. They both have had some character issues as well, maybe we could buy out McInnis for the cheap or something?

(2) Etan for KT gives us a backup C. But Etan is a worse player and his contract is bad, plus it has a trade kicker (not sure hoe much though).

(3) Maybe instead of this trade we could go with KT+Bonzi+Hart for Haywood, Daniels, and Ruffin. Something along those lines perhaps? The Wizards don't seem to be too high on Haywood, maybe they would do it.

(4+5) Eddie Griffin isn't that great, neither is Stromile, but both can block shots and have potential. They have character issues as well though.

 

[Kings113]

Etan would give us a defensive combo big man at 6'10" 260. Can score in the post some as well.

Eddie doesn't anymore.

What has Stromile done that's bad? I haven't read anything on that, just that he's not the smartest player.

 

[walker60]

Etan would give us a defensive combo big man at 6'10" 260. Can score in the post some as well.

Eddie doesn't anymore.

What has Stromile done that's bad? I haven't read anything on that, just that he's not the smartest player.

I've heard numerous times that he's lazy and doesn't practice/play hard, just doesn't have the best attitude but nothing serious.

 

[NoBonus]

I've heard numerous times that he's lazy and doesn't practice/play hard, just doesn't have the best attitude but nothing serious.

All the makings of a champion...

 

[Bricklayer]

(2) Etan for KT gives us a backup C. But Etan is a worse player and his contract is bad, plus it has a trade kicker (not sure hoe much though).

(3) Maybe instead of this trade we could go with KT+Bonzi+Hart for Haywood, Daniels, and Ruffin. Something along those lines perhaps? The Wizards don't seem to be too high on Haywood, maybe they would do it.

(4+5) Eddie Griffin isn't that great, neither is Stromile, but both can block shots and have potential. They have character issues as well though.

2) The flip side of this is that its not always about who is the better player, its about needs. Udonis Haslem isn't a great player, but he plays his role well and is now on a Finals team. Ditto Sagana Diop, James Posey, Adrian Griffin, etc. And if Kenny can't fill our needs, then moving him for a guy who patches our weaknesses makes sense, no matter who is the "better" player. Kenny actually is kind of a problematic player in that he is not a high quality all around starter type, but has neither the game nor mentality of a roleplaying bencher. You might be better off with a quality roleplayer who knows his role and relishes it. Of course at that point you've also just traded Chris Webber for Etan Thomas, but that's water under the bridge stuff at this point. Fact is that next year I could make a very persuasive argument why we could get more use out of a roleplaying 6'9" musclular shotblocking combo PF/C than a 6'7" "better" all around pure minature PF who needs lots of minutes to be happy and productive.

3) not really interested in sacrificing a guy capable of dominating the Spurs for spare parts from a mediocre club. Haywood and Daniels have some value, but on a team hoping to contend, its as fill up the rotation guys. Moving KT would be nice, but I don't want to downgrade our talent to do so.

4+5) yep, similar questions about both. Neither is the answer by themselves. I have real doubts this is how Geoff thinks, but nonetheless its why I would liek to see us go get TWO shotblocking types next year. And if one is Griffin or Swift, cool. Youth + potential to help and energize. But I don't think you could take either guy alone as your only move and decide that they were definitely going to come through for you.

 

[hammystyle]

Etan would give us a defensive combo big man at 6'10" 260. Can score in the post some as well.

Eddie doesn't anymore.

What has Stromile done that's bad? I haven't read anything on that, just that he's not the smartest player.

I'm not really against any of those trades per se, I just have reservations about one for one deals. I don't like KT, but I think he's better than all of those guys. The thought of those guys is a lot better than the actuality. Why can't any of them get in the game for more than 20 minutes on bad teams? It's not like the opportunities haven't been there. Particularly Griffin and Swift, they can block shots and rebound a little, but I think they suffer at guarding their position and just play dumb basketball in general (35% shooting for Griffin??!!). Etan is a tough player, but hasn't been nearly as good since signing his contract two years ago.

Maybe they would be better for this team than KT though. Maybe anything to get rid of him is good and those guys at least provide something we lack in athletic bigs.

 

[hearns]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said hammystyle.

(1) I like the first trade, because we are dumping a contract and gaining a 1st round pick. Cliffy and McInnis aren't very good though, and they may not help us much. They both have had some character issues as well, maybe we could buy out McInnis for the cheap or something?

(2) Etan for KT gives us a backup C. But Etan is a worse player and his contract is bad, plus it has a trade kicker (not sure hoe much though).

(3) Maybe instead of this trade we could go with KT+Bonzi+Hart for Haywood, Daniels, and Ruffin. Something along those lines perhaps? The Wizards don't seem to be too high on Haywood, maybe they would do it.

(4+5) Eddie Griffin isn't that great, neither is Stromile, but both can block shots and have potential. They have character issues as well though.

I think McInnis would be a good back up at the pg, and a backcourt McInnis-Bibby could work some minutes. And with Cliff Robinson, use him in another trade or waive him.

 

[hammystyle]

Another possibility mentioned that I like a lot would be KT for Dan Gadzuric. Gadzuric is limited offensively by his terrible hands, but he plays hard and plays within himself better than those other guys.

 

[walker60]

I'd like to get Gadz too, I think he's deserving of more minutes than he is getting. But I think the Bucks are gonna move Magloire. If they do that, then they'll need to hold on to Gadz....I don't see how we could get him unless we really overpaid to get him.

 

[Kings113]

I'm not really against any of those trades per se, I just have reservations about one for one deals. I don't like KT, but I think he's better than all of those guys. The thought of those guys is a lot better than the actuality. Why can't any of them get in the game for more than 20 minutes on bad teams? It's not like the opportunities haven't been there. Particularly Griffin and Swift, they can block shots and rebound a little, but I think they suffer at guarding their position and just play dumb basketball in general (35% shooting for Griffin??!!). Etan is a tough player, but hasn't been nearly as good since signing his contract two years ago.

Maybe they would be better for this team than KT though. Maybe anything to get rid of him is good and those guys at least provide something we lack in athletic bigs.

Ah, indeed...

Griffin shot 35 percent because of a problem with his eyes. He just lost his shot that he HAD in 04-05 That's what was reported earlier this year, and another time. I believe he's been ordered by the Wolves to get the operation for it.

Griffin has played well in his limited minutes off the bench, and he would of had his best year had he not got taken out of the rotation in February for Mark Blount. Then he started playing again in April (though still not as much as before), when the Wolves were just doing auditions for next year.

Before all that Griff was getting 7-8 pts/high 6 rebs/3+ BPG. The majority playing off the bench. He was always in the top 3 or 5 (3 more than 5) in shot-blocking in the league. At one point, KG said he's the best shotblocker on the team. On EG's post defense, I haven't gathered enough on that, but asking Wolves fans at RealGM, the majority said he's not bad, but not real good. I'd say solid/decent.

I'd also like to get Gadzuric. He's gonna be stuck behind Bogut/likely Magloire (for next season anyway) for the rest of his time there.

The flip side of this is that its not always about who is the better player, its about needs. Udonis Haslem isn't a great player, but he plays his role well and is now on a Finals team. Ditto Sagana Diop, James Posey, Adrian Griffin, etc. And if Kenny can't fill our needs, then moving him for a guy who patches our weaknesses makes sense, no matter who is the "better" player. Kenny actually is kind of a problematic player in that he is not a high quality all around starter type, but has neither the game nor mentality of a roleplaying bencher. You might be better off with a quality roleplayer who knows his role and relishes it. Of course at that point you've also just traded Chris Webber for Etan Thomas, but that's water under the bridge stuff at this point. Fact is that next year I could make a very persuasive argument why we could get more use out of a roleplaying 6'9" musclular shotblocking combo PF/C than a 6'7" "better" all around pure minature PF who needs lots of minutes to be happy and productive.

I definitely agree.

 

[hammystyle]

Griffin shot 35 percent because of a problem with his eyes. He just lost his shot that he HAD in 04-05 That's what was reported earlier this year, and another time. I believe he's been ordered by the Wolves to get the operation for it. quote]

He averages 38% for his career, so that's just what he is. Honestly I can't think of a big man who shoots worse. He did shoot a lot lower on FT% though.

 

[Kings113]

Griffin shot 35 percent because of a problem with his eyes. He just lost his shot that he HAD in 04-05 That's what was reported earlier this year, and another time. I believe he's been ordered by the Wolves to get the operation for it. quote]

He averages 38% for his career, so that's just what he is. Honestly I can't think of a big man who shoots worse. He did shoot a lot lower on FT% though.

38 percent isn't good either in 04-05 or for career. But he still had his shot going in 04-05. He hasn't been a top option on offense, and if it's not on hustle points, it's jumpshots mostly. I'd say that's why he doesn't have a good percentage.

Anyway, I still like him a lot, and would be a damn good fit for us. Hell, if he didn't have that jumpshot, I'd still be into getting him.

 

[hammystyle]

I'd like to get Gadz too, I think he's deserving of more minutes than he is getting. But I think the Bucks are gonna move Magloire. If they do that, then they'll need to hold on to Gadz....I don't see how we could get him unless we really overpaid to get him.

I heard they were very interested in Przybilla too. I also heard they want to start Bogut at center, which is the main reason for getting rid of Magloire. More and more it looks like Przybilla could be a key figure because if he goes to Chicago or Milwaukee then maybe we could swing deals for Chandler or Gadzuric. Or maybe Big Joel comes here and we really explore options for trading Miller.

 

[Gary]

How about a 3 way deal involving Minnesota, Milwaukee, and Sacramento....

Sacramento Outgoing:
Kenny Thomas
Brad Miller
Francisco Garcia

Milwaukee Outgoing:
Dan Gadzuric
Mo Williams

Minnesota Outgoing:
Eddie Griffin
Marcus Banks
Mark Blount

---------------------------------------------------------

Sacramento Incoming:
Dan Gadzuric
Eddie Griffin
Mark Blount

Milwaukee Incoming:
Kenny Thomas
Marcus Banks
Francisco Garcia

Minnesota Incoming:
Brad Miller
Mo Williams

----------------------------------------------------------

Why Sacramento does this? We get 3 big men in exchange for one undersized big man, our center, and Garcia.

Why does Milwaukee do this? Milwaukee moves Bogut to center, and Has Jamaal Magloire come off the bench. They get Banks as well who has been improving, PLUS a young swing in Garcia.

Why Minnesota does this? They have a 7' center who can pass playing with a PF who can pass and rebound. Just think of the trouble Minnesota can cause teams. They also get Mo Williams who can fill in.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Problems:

1. Banks is a free agent
2. Minnesota makes out like bandits
3. Kings can do better with a package that includes Brad/Garcia (their net loss in this trade: -8.6 ppg, -4.9 rpg, -6.0 apg)
4. Gadz has a BYC deal which messes things up (at least until this summer, I think)
5. I doubt we'll see Magloire come off the bench again. I see the Bucks dealing him for a starting PF, shifting Bogut to C, and keeping Gadz and Joe Smith as their big men off the bench.

But I like where you're going with this. If we're going to try for two defensive big man, rather than one difference maker (which doesn't solve the problem completely but is more realistic at this point) Gadz and Griffin are two guys I'd definitely like to see imported. But I'd rather have Miller than Booth, especially considering that if Artest and Bonzi come back and we run the offense through them in the post, we're going to need Miller's jumper to space the floor.

And a Brad/KG/Ricky Davis frontcourt is scary. Don't want to facilitate that!

 

[phasefour]

this is my first post but i registered just to say that any trade where mark blount is coming to sac is terrible for the kings.

there was a stat somewhere that mentioned he was the worst pound for pound rebounder in the league (bonzi being very near the top)

 

[walker60]

Ya I like the idea, although it wouldn't work for the reasons mentioned above. If we keep Bonzi, I don't think we should get rid of Brad b/c Brad covers one of Bonzi's weaknesses (shooting) and Bonzi covers some of Brad's (rebounding, toughness). So ideally, I'd like to get two big men, a C and a PF, and a PG. I wouldn't mind seeing our PF start like Adrian Griffin does for the Mavs. Someone who is a good defender and only plays about 20 minutes a night while allowing SAR to get close to 30.

 

[Gary]

I was mostly thinking of it as dumping KTs contract as with Brads.