Vlade4GM
All-Star
http://www.hoopsdaily.com/content/nba-rookie-report-curious-case-demarcus-cousins
What do you think of this article?
What do you think of this article?
Hoops Daily: The Curious Case of DeMarcus Cousins
- Thread starter Vlade4GM
- Start date
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I'll accept most of that except the laughable assertion that Cousins doesn't play in the post -- that smacks to me of a guy who maybe has caught one or two games where Cousins was in there less than he should be, and who then takes a look at the shooting percentage and takes a guess. Hoopdata.com tracks shot locations, and Cousins takes 7.3 shots a game from within 10 feet compared to only 3.9 from further out.
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=DeMarcus Cousins
Mm they don't seem to be too happy with Mr Turner. Perhaps they'd like #9 rookie Pooh Jeter from us in exchange for him!
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jcassio
Starter
Overall it's an OK article, but it misses on two key points about Cousins. One, that he doesn't play in the post. And two, there's no mention of his attitude/behavioral problems. Instead, he's characterized as simply having a tendency to play carelessly. I suppose one can argue that he doesn't actually have any attitude/behavioral problems, but it would be a silly argument for something so obvious to people who watch the Kings games. And there's nothing in this article to suggest such an argument.
That said, I have no regrets about the Kings' draft choice. I just hope he grows up sooner rather than later.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
that has always been one of the shakiest stats 82games puts out. Tim Duncan shoots 62% jumpers according to them. With Gasol they claim its 56%. Normally you consider turnarounds in the post to be post moves, but they seem to count anything but a layup/dunk as a jumper.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Regardless, I think the eFG% shows that he's playing out of his comfort zone because he thinks he's better at facing up out on the perimeter than he really is. He needs to cut it out, he's not a PF, no matter how much he wants to be.
mr. moustache
Bench
Indeed. Cousin's is very capable of throwing up junk from 3ft, often missing the rim. I like the aggressiveness. For now it hurts, but he'll make better decisions in the future.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
eFG% is just a stat. As mentioned in the stats above, he takes relatively few shots from the peirmeter. HIs efficiency problems are at least as much about not consistently finishing around the rim as anything.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I do think you have to consider impovement. He's been taking fewer jumpers of late, and perhaps I should start tracking his shots. But in the last 10 games or so, I'm sure he would be much closer to 50%. Personally I don't care as long as he at a reasonable distance and he's open. The truth is, he has a very nice stroke, and his overall percentage is starting to rise from what it was 15 games ago. The kid has a lot of weapons that just need to be refined and polished. In todays game he was mostly in the post, and was very effective. Its a learning process.
I agree with the premise that even at the moment, he's one of the best centers in the western conference, despite being a rookie. And with Yao gone, he could shortly be the best center in the western conference. Now that might say more about the absence of centers than it does Cousins, but thats not his fault.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I'll agree that he isn't finishing that well either, but I think that has a lot to do with a lot of the moves he's making being out of control. He needs to play more back to the basket, instead of facing up from mid range, it's not working for him because athleticism and ball handling are not his strengths.
I don't agree with "relatively few." Maybe it's relatively few for Gasol, or Duncan, but not for Cousins. Just because you are willing to throw up shots from outside, that doesn't mean you have range. I mean, sure, he has decent perimeter skills for being 6'11 280, but in an absolute sense, I don't think they're that good. At the very least, not good enough to be his go-to moves. He has been getting better about it lately though.
I believe in his ability to be a good low post player, I think we saw at Kentucky that he has a promising basic foundation of footwork and post moves that he can improve on to become one of the better low post players in the NBA.
If he decides that he's going to be a face-up player, then that will significantly lower his upside and value.
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x2RedReaper2x
G-League
Demarcus Cousin's shots according to hoopdata.com
at rim: 2.5 makes, 3.4 attempts a game on 71.7 FG%
<10 ft: 1.2 makes, 3.9 attempts a game on 31.8 FG%
10-15 ft: 0.2 makes, 1.2 attempts a game on 18.4 FG%
16-23 ft: 0.9 makes, 2.5 attempts a game on 36.0 FG%
Threes: 0.1 makes, 0.2 attempts a game on 25 3P%
at rim: 2.5 makes, 3.4 attempts a game on 71.7 FG%
<10 ft: 1.2 makes, 3.9 attempts a game on 31.8 FG%
10-15 ft: 0.2 makes, 1.2 attempts a game on 18.4 FG%
16-23 ft: 0.9 makes, 2.5 attempts a game on 36.0 FG%
Threes: 0.1 makes, 0.2 attempts a game on 25 3P%
jcassio
Starter
I think Cousins wants to be a great all-around player, not just a great post player. So you might have much to complain about as his game... evolves. I believe he has even mentioned Chris Webber and Pau Gasol as players he admires. I think it's obvious that he has improved his game this season, and part of that has been learning how/when to utilize his post strengths. But I don't think his nature will allow him to give up his dream. For better or for worse, he is that hard-headed.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
For crying out loud, he's just 20 years old and one year removed from highschool. Can we give him a few more games before we label him one way or another. What we have is a player that has the ability to be, maybe in a couple of years, the best center in the NBA. And if you don't believe that, please start naming for me all the other great centers not named Dwight Howard. Even Howard doesn't get a perfect score because he has no game away from the basket at all, and he's an absolutely terrible freethrow shooter.
There's a reason he's out at the perimiter at times. Thats where big guys set picks for the little guys. It also helps clear some space under the basket for Tyreke to drive. If your paying attention to the game, you'll notice that a lot of his jumpshots come with the clock running down. The reason being, he's standing there at the top of the key with the ball looking for cutters or backdoor cuts, and no one is moving. So whats he suspossed to do with 5 ticks left, eat the ball? Its not just black and white. There are reasons that things happen the way they do. In yesterdays game Tyeke was out beyond the left elbow dribbling the ball for at least 12 to 15 seconds. When the shot clock got down to 4 seconds left he passed the ball to Cousins who was out just inside the 3pt circle at the left baseline. He had no choice but to shoot the ball before the shotclock expired. Why was he out there? He was trying to clear space under the basket for Tyreke.
This is a team game, and everything you do on the floor isn't about you. Its about running plays. And sometimes those plays take you away from where you would be most comfortable. But then the play isn't being run for you, until suddenly the play is defended well and you end up with the ball with the clock running down. Sometimes crap just happens..
There's a reason he's out at the perimiter at times. Thats where big guys set picks for the little guys. It also helps clear some space under the basket for Tyreke to drive. If your paying attention to the game, you'll notice that a lot of his jumpshots come with the clock running down. The reason being, he's standing there at the top of the key with the ball looking for cutters or backdoor cuts, and no one is moving. So whats he suspossed to do with 5 ticks left, eat the ball? Its not just black and white. There are reasons that things happen the way they do. In yesterdays game Tyeke was out beyond the left elbow dribbling the ball for at least 12 to 15 seconds. When the shot clock got down to 4 seconds left he passed the ball to Cousins who was out just inside the 3pt circle at the left baseline. He had no choice but to shoot the ball before the shotclock expired. Why was he out there? He was trying to clear space under the basket for Tyreke.
This is a team game, and everything you do on the floor isn't about you. Its about running plays. And sometimes those plays take you away from where you would be most comfortable. But then the play isn't being run for you, until suddenly the play is defended well and you end up with the ball with the clock running down. Sometimes crap just happens..
fiction916
G-League
I'm liking Cousins' mid-range jumper much better than Tyreke's at this point.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Athleticms, as in quickness, coordination and strenth here, not verticality, and ball handling are absolutely strengths for Cousins. In fact amongst true centers I'm not sure there is anybody better. Its going to be a huge advantage for him going forward, and the end result is attempts at the hoop, which is kind of the goal. He's a strong guy with a lot of postgame, but comparitively he may have an even bigger advantage facing up, because opposing centers aren't comfortable guarding peopel out there or moving their feet -- they are there for the strenght on strength matchup. Yet you can't cover Cousins wiht a PF or evena SF the way teams could with Brad, because he will destroy them in the ost.
All this one is going to take is a little seasoning and he's the best offensive center in basketball.
K
Kingsguy881
Guest
Hey, where is NBAFAN anyway to talk smack about Cousins being a bust????
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Like I said, I don't think he's all that quick in an absolute sense, maybe relative to his size. I think he has quick feet (which gives him potential with spin moves and drop steps), but he doesn't blow by or accelerate especially quick. I don't think he's a very good ball handler for a face-up player, and when I say ball handling, I don't mean dribbling. Sure, he can dribble the ball well, but controlling the ball and protecting it when driving to the basket? No, not especially good, not at this point at least. Is it good for a player that is primarily a low post player? Sure.
It's not that I'm trying to say he doesn't have the potential to have a good face-up game, he does, but I'm saying his ceiling is much higher with his primary objective being to get deep post position and using his strength and footwork. He's not going to be anything special trying to face up and blow by centers, he doesn't have good enough forward or vertical explosiveness to pull that off.
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Blake Griffin on the other hand ...
Personally I've never been a fan of players working on too many aspects of their game at once. To me, they should focus on one field until they become really good at it before moving on to another. Sort of like with offensive moves. The greats all have one or at most a few pet moves, and the defender knows they are going to use it, but still can't do anything about it. I'd rather have a player be a master of the sky hook than have 50 different post moves which he executes poorly. So with Cousins, especially at this age, I'd rather see him just work on one aspect of his game, and obviously the biggest thing should be his post game. Work on that, make yourself very very hard to guard down low, then move on to face up/trying to cross over centers game.
JJ22L
Starter
A bit off-topic, but I do enjoy reading your posts Baja. Whether or not I agree with your points, they are always rational and well-substantiated.
With the animosity revolving around this season, and members chastising other members for their views, it's good to every-once-and-a-while throw some props out there.
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NhocCuteGirlz
Prospect
I like that Pooh is #9.
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bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well if were going to quibble, then he won't be two years removed from highschool until this coming June.. And, I don't see any bad habits being developed. I see a player that at times isn't sure what to do, but that will change with experience. I guess I just get sick and tired of people always looking at what a player does wrong, or can't do at the moment, instead of the things a player can do, and can do at an age that many can't do. When I used to help a young kid at baseball, I certainly didn't harp on the things he did wrong, but instead concentated on improving the things he could do right.
Now if he were out there planting himself at the three pt line and pumping up shot after shot, then I'd start to worry. But as I said, most of the time he finds himself out near the perimiter, its because the offense being run at the time calls for him to be there. You can't blame him for that. Its pretty damm hard to set a pick under the basket. Now if you want to say that he makes bad decisions at times, then were in agreement. But I think thats to be expected for a young player, that like a lot of young promising highschool players didn't go to one of those highschool accademies thats known for developing players.
Personally I'm happy with his progress. I see improvement in his defense and in his choices on offense. He's far from a finished product, but when you look at what he's been able to accomplish so far, the future looks extremely bright. Who would you rather have right now. Spencer Hawes in his fourth year, or DeMarcus in his first year? Would you trade him straight across for Brook Lopez? Just who are the great centers in the NBA that you would trade him for not named Howard? How many centers in the NBA actually play above the rim, that aren't named Howard? I agree that it would be just wonderful if he had a 36" vertical, but how many 6'11", 280 LB centers around the league have a 36" vertical? Not many me thinks. And when I last looked, most of the centers that do have a decent vertical, are defensive centers, and are lacking on the offensive side of the ball. And I can't think of one defensive center in the league not named Howard that I would trade him for.
How about this! How about we agree that Cousins is 77 games removed from highschool. At the moment, he's one professional game from completing from what would have been a second college season.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Much appreciated! Were never going to agree on everything. Hell, even my son and I don't always agree. Of course I'm always right.
One thing I've learned on this fourm, is that you need to do your homework. If you don't, there's someone out there that will quickly educate you. My biggest frustration comes from posters that just make blanket statements with little or no information to support them. But thats life on the fourm. Thanks again...
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Baja, quibbling about rounding up is taking this way too far!
His propensity to want to face up and drive to the basket is what I mean when it comes to bad habits. So maybe that wasn't the best term to describe what I mean, but it sounded like an effective saying, so I went with it.
Like I said to brick, I think trying to become that type of player is a misallocation of his talents. Working on post moves and footwork is far more crucial for his game, and polishing it early is very important. I agree with mac that it's not good to focus on improving too many things at once, because that will lead to less focus on each individual aspect. A true post game is hard to develop and needs a lot of focus and commitment, both in games and in practice. It would be much easier to develop a face up game later on than it would low post game. It's been proven time and time again that face-up games are easier to develop at a later stage. With Cousins' strength, length, and quick feet, he'd be crazy to want to focus on being a face-up player (like every single big in the league save a handful) instead of a low post player. That's the generation of bigs now though, they all want to be Amare and Garnett. His spot up J is decent, and that's great for any kind of big to have, but I wouldn't say he's anything special in the triple threat position, even for a center.
Focusing on what needs improvement is my style. I find that going on and on about what is so great about a player with someone who agrees with me to be a form of gushing, and I find that trite and unproductive. It's more apt to stop conversation than to continue it. Especially since I'm more likely to be preaching to the choir here. It should go without saying because I obviously don't have to sell you on his high points. What would be the point in just sitting here agreeing with each other over and over?
I know it's hard sometimes to not see criticism as a damnation, but sometimes it's just criticism. I'm not saying I think we made the wrong draft pick (in fact, I think we were extremely lucky) or that I'd rather have Hawes back.
His propensity to want to face up and drive to the basket is what I mean when it comes to bad habits. So maybe that wasn't the best term to describe what I mean, but it sounded like an effective saying, so I went with it.
Like I said to brick, I think trying to become that type of player is a misallocation of his talents. Working on post moves and footwork is far more crucial for his game, and polishing it early is very important. I agree with mac that it's not good to focus on improving too many things at once, because that will lead to less focus on each individual aspect. A true post game is hard to develop and needs a lot of focus and commitment, both in games and in practice. It would be much easier to develop a face up game later on than it would low post game. It's been proven time and time again that face-up games are easier to develop at a later stage. With Cousins' strength, length, and quick feet, he'd be crazy to want to focus on being a face-up player (like every single big in the league save a handful) instead of a low post player. That's the generation of bigs now though, they all want to be Amare and Garnett. His spot up J is decent, and that's great for any kind of big to have, but I wouldn't say he's anything special in the triple threat position, even for a center.
Focusing on what needs improvement is my style. I find that going on and on about what is so great about a player with someone who agrees with me to be a form of gushing, and I find that trite and unproductive. It's more apt to stop conversation than to continue it. Especially since I'm more likely to be preaching to the choir here. It should go without saying because I obviously don't have to sell you on his high points. What would be the point in just sitting here agreeing with each other over and over?
I know it's hard sometimes to not see criticism as a damnation, but sometimes it's just criticism. I'm not saying I think we made the wrong draft pick (in fact, I think we were extremely lucky) or that I'd rather have Hawes back.
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
There's no way you can make a judgement on Cousins yet. Give him a few years and then we can have a large enough sample size to know what exactly he is. You can look at a few consecutive games and come to the conclusion that the guy is going to be great. Then you can look at another few consecutive games and say this guy is going to be a disaster. It's all about attitude, and I'm not sure anybody can foretell what that is going to be down the line.
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