Help For LeBron, Cap Room For Us

[Dreadnought]

Brick, I really like all of your possible trade situations. They are all pretty well thought out and I enjoy reading them.

This would be an excellent trade for us, but I feel like Cleveland would not throw themselves with all of our worst contracts, especially since we don't even want them.

 

[kupman]

So none of you are going for the trading of Kmart? Didn't think that you would. No even sure that I would, although I would seriously consider it.

The point is that if we all love the trade idea here, it probably means that the folks at the Cavs forum would think that we are out of our flipping trees. You have to give the other team something that will make them salivate a bit.

Kmart is great trade bait, much like Mitch R. was great trade bait. I think that everyone here agrees that Kmart is a great second option, but probably not a lead on a championship caliper team. If possible, we need to use him to help get an All-Star.

Last, I do not believe that the Cavs should be entertaining the possibility of Lebron staying. He will be in New York or Detroit I am guessing. The front office for Cleveland needs to through everything at this next year in the hopes of finally landing a championship for the Land of Cleves - possibly the greatest sports suffering city in the nation.

 

[asakkings]

I think Kmart should only be traded for a young up and coming star not for cap space. If we trade Kmart and are unable to land a big time star in free agency than it would be a big waster of a trade bait.

 

[AriesMar27]

the cavs need mobile bigmen, shotblocking and a lot of size.... a real pf that can score, a shot blocking center, and a wing player thats actually a full sized player. if they want to trade their enders they'd be better off trading with the clippers or bobcats than the kings. trading wallace and whoever for players that fit their needs.

maybe zach randolph and some wingmen like raja bell or even jrich.... the cavs would have a lot of massive enders next season, wallace, big z and varajeo. granted thats all of their bigmen but that could help them land a player that will fit what they need. wallace and randolph make the same amount, easy trade. they trade big z and pavlovic to the bobcats for radmonovic, muhamed and bell.... resign wally for cheap or sign a mle player and bam.... they have a team that can score with anyone and defend anyone.
they also would have mle options like rasheed wallace or artest...

williams/gibson
bell/west
lebron/radmonovic/mle or free agent
randolph/hickson/mle or free agent
muhamed/varajeo

i wonder if the rockets would be willing to trade tmac for ben wallace and filler... then sign rasheed for mle.

williams
tmac
lebron
rasheed
big z

 

[CaAllDay]

i would do it but the cavs prolly dont, they need a true shooting guard/scorer like larry hughes didnt they have him @ a time, or low post scorer no one great even a zach randolph would have gave them some points ,a jerk but can get points..

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I like Nocioni's game--but at this stage of our rebuild, he's not really a good player to have on our team--sure, his infectious intensity and playoff experience can rub off on the younger guys, but not at his price tag. He's really of optimal use where he can make a difference as a cog player on a playoff team. It's not really a tough decision--this trade will help us save $$$ by attaining enders, and we clear ourselves of Nocioni's and Udrih's horrible contracts. Garcia may not be worth that $$$ as well particularly in the later phases of the contract, and while I do have a soft spot for him as a homegrown player who's developed quite well for us, he is quite expendable as a player I don't think will develop to be anything more than a 5th man at most. So it's a deal that if Cleveland accepts (I don't think they would, as I said before), we should jump on it--we also get a 1st round pick as well. But I don't their GM is dumb as to just superficially scan the numbers and see that Nocioni, Udrih, and Garcia are all averaging over 10+ points per game, and for that sole reason jump on the trade because they think they're tacking on 30 points per game onto their roster. Ultimately this trade really looks good for us and we can cash in and potentially get a star in free agency, while shedding ourselves as overpaid players and bad contracts.

 

[VF21]

Kmart is great trade bait, much like Mitch R. was great trade bait. I think that everyone here agrees that Kmart is a great second option, but probably not a lead on a championship caliper team. If possible, we need to use him to help get an All-Star.

Martin can be an integral part of our team as we build with new young players and vitality around him. I don't think the Kings are looking at him as trade bait; I know I'm not. The idea Rubio/Martin/Nocioni/Thompson/Hawes intriques me, since Rubio is the kind of point guard who would clearly make Martin's game a lot easier.

And, as has been mentioned, we're not going to trade away Martin for ending contracts. It is NOT gonna happen - no way, no how.

 

[Sac.1989]

this is bloody brilliant

 

[TheWileyVet]

The Maloofs should offer Lebron one of the Palms towers. That will get him in Sacramento

 

[TheRaven]

Nice concept. The Cavs know they have to do something this offseason or risk losing LeBron, but I don't think we quite have the right pieces to fit what the Cavs really need. At least not in a straight-up trade, might work if we got in as part of a three-way trade with the Clippers, Philly, or someone else who could send a big to Cleveland.

I do think they would improve incrementally from the players they get back in the proposed deal, but not enough to get them over the hump. I think coming away from a deal like this without either a much better big in the frontcourt or a true #2 option causes this deal to fall apart from their perspective.

 

[Nighthawk1]

While I like this trade, I just don't see Cleveland doing this as their means to put the team over the top... Garcia and Noci are good players, but even as great as LBJ is he can't do it alone... If they traded some of their current team and got him another star type player for cheap then they would probably be more willing to turn around and do this trade with us

 

[kupman]

Martin can be an integral part of our team as we build with new young players and vitality around him. I don't think the Kings are looking at him as trade bait; I know I'm not. The idea Rubio/Martin/Nocioni/Thompson/Hawes intrigues me, since Rubio is the kind of point guard who would clearly make Martin's game a lot easier.

And, as has been mentioned, we're not going to trade away Martin for ending contracts. It is NOT gonna happen - no way, no how.

I am very confident that the Kings are not looking at Kmart as bait. Everything points to them making Kmart the center of the team.

The idea of the line-up really intrigues me as well. However, I would be more comfortable if we could find a proven All-Star.

And no, I don't think that there is a chance in hades that the Kings trade Martin away for ending contracts. I was trying to find away to make the trade more palatable to the Cavs fans.

 

[Bricklayer]

I am very confident that the Kings are not looking at Kmart as bait. Everything points to them making Kmart the center of the team.

Well, so long as that happens we will suck forever, and deserve to do so.

I do not suffer from VF21s homervision, and understand implicitly that there are no fan favorites or sacred cows on a 17 win team wiht the lowest attendance in the league. Those guys sucked. They are now all completely expendable to try to bring us out of the suck. But that doesn't mean I advocate tossing around the valuable ones willy nilly. I am more than willing to move Kevin for the right deal -- would have been willing to burn him to get John Wall if he had come out this year for instance. But just burning him for capspace is a heckuva gamble, in particular since in my orignal scenario we would have been counting on him as the most attractive cornerstone (barring breakout seasons by Spencer or JT or a rookie) to draw the FA flies. If Cleveland just had some real assets we could use, I'd have him on the table. But as it is,their problem, and ours as well, is that they really do not. Just enders. Its why I don't think they can get another star like Bosh in there next to LeBron, and its why I don't think we could sacrifice our "star" to them either.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Don't the Cavaliers own James' Bird rights? What's stopping them from offering a free agent the max, and then going over the cap to re-sign LeBron, as long as they, chronologically, sign the free agent first? Or, is that actually illegal?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Don't the Cavaliers own James' Bird rights? What's stopping them from offering a free agent the max, and then going over the cap to re-sign LeBron, as long as they, chronologically, sign the free agent first? Or, is that actually illegal?

Bird Rights are technically a cap exception, so my understanding is that LeBron's hypothetical salary under the Bird Exception will count against Cleveland's cap, so they couldn't offer a different free agent the max unless they either 1) have cap space above and beyond LeBron's Bird Exception or 2) they renounce LeBron's Bird Exception.

I think it's safe to say #2 isn't going to happen.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

That makes sense, but that doesn't really answer my question:

Unless hoopshype is wrong (which is entirely possible), Cleveland is going to be quite adequately under the cap during the 2010 offseason. So, unless it's against the rules to sign new free agents before you re-sign players (which may be true, I have no idea), what's stopping them from signing a free agent (like Bosh) to put them at the cap first, and then going over the cap to re-sign James? Won't James technically be a free agent? Because, if so, why couldn't they sign Bosh to the max on July 1st (when they'd still be under the cap), and then claim the Bird exception to re-sign James on July 3rd (when they'd presumably be over the cap)?

 

[Bricklayer]

That makes sense, but that doesn't really answer my question:

Unless hoopshype is wrong (which is entirely possible), Cleveland is going to be quite adequately under the cap during the 2010 offseason. So, unless it's against the rules to sign new free agents before you re-sign players (which may be true, I have no idea), what's stopping them from signing a free agent (like Bosh) to put them at the cap first, and then going over the cap to re-sign James? Won't James technically be a free agent? Because, if so, why couldn't they sign Bosh to the max on July 1st (when they'd still be under the cap), and then claim the Bird exception to re-sign James on July 3rd (when they'd presumably be over the cap)?

What I think he's saying is that Bird rights are like qualifying offers -- you have to extend them before free agency begins and they set aside a cap hold to cover it. So from the cap perspective its like they have already signed James first.

Its actually an interesting issue that has cropped up in the past

 

[Capt. Factorial]

What I think he's saying is that Bird rights are like qualifying offers -- you have to extend them before free agency begins and they set aside a cap hold to cover it. So from the cap perspective its like they have already signed James first.

Its actually an interesting issue that has cropped up in the past

Yes, to the best of my understanding that's correct.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Does he have to sign, or do they just have to offer, or does it make a difference?

 

[hammystyle]

Does he have to sign, or do they just have to offer, or does it make a difference?

Not sure about those questions, but even with a cap hold of 17 million, they're only on the books for 36 million, leaving 22 million in cap space. Though that could change quite a bit depending on what they do this offseason.

 

[JB_kings]

You also need to factor in something these days that used to be unheard of... can the team actually pay the players salaries above and beyond the cap? While there are ways to pay a guy like LeBron a huge salary, there may not be enough income to pay anyone else's salaries. While the Cavs would be very happy to pay LeBron, they may be too broke to pay anyone else. So that is what LBJ has to think over... maybe he does have to move on to a NY team that his the deep pockets to pay him and some other guys too.

The Cavs might get buyers or investors to offset those money issues. But nowhere near the pockets of the Knicks.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Does he have to sign, or do they just have to offer, or does it make a difference?

Question #30 in this document should answer the question, but in short, the cap hold will be for 150% of his current salary, and that's automatically applied until they renounce the exception.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You also need to factor in something these days that used to be unheard of... can the team actually pay the players salaries above and beyond the cap? While there are ways to pay a guy like LeBron a huge salary, there may not be enough income to pay anyone else's salaries. While the Cavs would be very happy to pay LeBron, they may be too broke to pay anyone else. So that is what LBJ has to think over... maybe he does have to move on to a NY team that his the deep pockets to pay him and some other guys too.

That was basically what I've been asking; apparently, the answer is that, yes, they can pay him above and beyond the salary cap, because they own his Bird rights, but they have to do it before any other free agents can be signed, so that anybody that Cleveland looks to acquire would have to be pursued after LeBron's salary is on the books.

 

[hrdboild]

After Cleveland got torched out of the playoffs by 40 points from Dwight Howard, I think it's pretty clear that their front line isn't good enough to get them all the way. Well, I think it was already pretty obvious that Varejao and Ilguaskus do not make up a championship calibre front court, but now it's been shown that they're not even good enough for Lebron to carry them to the finals anymore. If they're trading all their expiring contracts, they need to be getting an upgrade in the frontcourt. It'd be nice to get some more perimeter shooting, but it's not as much of a need. 2010 is getting closer. Next year might be their last shot to win a championship. I don't think we have anyone they would really want. Maybe Martin, but even that doesn't fill their biggest need.

 

[JB_kings]

The cap rules are one thing... but I'm not all that sure the Cavs have the cash flow to go above and beyond the cap to pay anyone else. They are already losing money today with their super star. I'm saying the Cavs may not have the cash to pay any other large salaries to go along with LeBron. So the cap rules are not really the point. It's economics.