Height, weight, wingspan and more... (split)

F

fnordius

All-Star
jcassio said:
BTW, it looked to me (last night) that Sheldon Williams and Ron Artest are just about the same height. So if anyone is holding onto the notion that Williams is 6'9, you can get over it now.
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Just to get this out of the way once and for all (heh, sure), here are Shelden's physical stats, along with an assortment of other familiar bigs, good, bad, and in between, from about the same time.

Player--------------height barefoot--weight--wingspan--reach--max vert jump--combine rank
LaMarcus Aldridge----6'10"------------234-----7'4.75"----9'2"-----34.0-----------68
Louis Amundson-----6'7.25"----------221-----6'11.5"----8'7.5"---32.0-----------11
Hilton Armstrong-----6'9.5"-----------240-----7'4"-------9'1"-----31.5-----------67
Nik Caner-Medley----6'6.5"-----------234-----6'9"-------8'7"-----35.5-----------9
Aaron Gray----------7'0"-------------280-----7'3"-------9'1"-----30.5-----------75
Spencer Hawes------6'10.5"----------244-----7'.05"-----9'2"-----29-------------72
Al Horford-----------6'8.75"----------246-----7'.75"-----8'11"----35.5-----------21
Paul Millsap---------6'6.25"----------258-----7'1.5"-----8'9.5"---32.5-----------38
Jason Smith--------6'10.75"---------233-----6'10.75"---8'10"----37.5-----------8
Tyrus Thomas------6'7.25"----------217-----7'3"-------9'0"-----39.5-----------22
Al Thornton--------6'5.75"----------221-----7'1"-------8'8"-----41-------------17
Darryl Watkins------6'8.75"----------241-----7'3"-------9'2"-----31-------------60
Justin Williams------6'7.25"----------211-----7'1.5"-----9'1"-----31.5-----------63
Shelden Williams----6'7.5"-----------258-----7'4.25"----8'8"-----33.5-----------31
 
When I suggested that Sheldon Williams is not 6'9, I didn't mean to trash the guy. He may end up being our own version of Grandmama. But he's yet another undersized King playing on a team where our Bigs are relatively flat-footed. And, yeah, we all know he's got wings like a pterodactyl! I'm just saying...
 
jcassio said:
When I suggested that Sheldon Williams is not 6'9, I didn't mean to trash the guy. He may end up being our own version of Grandmama. But he's yet another undersized King playing on a team where our Bigs are relatively flat-footed. And, yeah, we all know he's got wings like a pterodactyl! I'm just saying...
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Wings like a pterodactyl, and very little vertical reach. He's kind of a mixed bag as far as measurements go, and I wasn't trying to take a position that they're good or bad. I'm just putting them out there, so we will all be on the same page as far as things like his height go.

He is not 6'9", he was 6.8.5" in shoes, and the NBA always rounds up to the nearest inch, I guess they think we'll be awed at the figures they throw out. He is really 6'7.5" tall, make of it what you will.
 
fnordius said:
Just to get this out of the way once and for all (heh, sure), here are Shelden's physical stats, along with an assortment of other familiar bigs, good, bad, and in between, from about the same time.

Player--------------height barefoot--weight--wingspan--reach--max vert jump--combine rank
LaMarcus Aldridge----6'10"------------234-----7'4.75"----9'2"-----34.0-----------68
Louis Amundson-----6'7.25"----------221-----6'11.5"----8'7.5"---32.0-----------11
Hilton Armstrong-----6'9.5"-----------240-----7'4"-------9'1"-----31.5-----------67
Nik Caner-Medley----6'6.5"-----------234-----6'9"-------8'7"-----35.5-----------9
Aaron Gray----------7'0"-------------280-----7'3"-------9'1"-----30.5-----------75
Spencer Hawes------6'10.5"----------244-----7'.05"-----9'2"-----29-------------72
Al Horford-----------6'8.75"----------246-----7'.75"-----8'11"----35.5-----------21
Paul Millsap---------6'6.25"----------258-----7'1.5"-----8'9.5"---32.5-----------38
Jason Smith--------6'10.75"---------233-----6'10.75"---8'10"----37.5-----------8
Tyrus Thomas------6'7.25"----------217-----7'3"-------9'0"-----39.5-----------22
Al Thornton--------6'5.75"----------221-----7'1"-------8'8"-----41-------------17
Darryl Watkins------6'8.75"----------241-----7'3"-------9'2"-----31-------------60
Justin Williams------6'7.25"----------211-----7'1.5"-----9'1"-----31.5-----------63
Shelden Williams----6'7.5"-----------258-----7'4.25"----8'8"-----33.5-----------31
Click to expand...



Is there a weblink to these numbers? I'd like bookmark for future refs. Thanks.
 
fnordius said:
Spencer Hawes------6'10.5"----------244-----7'.05"-----9'2"-----29-------------72
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At 19, it's said Spencer Hawes may not have stopped growing yet. I can relate to that. When I was 16 I was right at 6'3" and by 17 up to 6'4". Did not stop growing until almost 20 when I topped out at 6'4.75" (all bare feet).

With Spencer listed now in shoes at 7'0" it will be interesting to see if that mark goes higher by next season. Maybe another half-inch or so is possible by the time he FINALLY stops growing.
 
NOTE: I split this from the Hawks grade thread as those threads are closed and archived at the beginning of the next game.
 
He's basically 6'9'' IMO. Everybody plays with their shoes on. When Sheed or KG is listed at 6'11'' they don't mean barefoot, they mean with shoes. If you're just saying barefoot then CWebb was 6'9'', KG is 6'10'', Dwight is 6'10'', etc. I don't really know if .75 or 1 inch makes a big deal. IMO it's mainly when the guy is really short like Kenny(6'6'' barefoot) and has a 2 or 3 inch height differential. But there are plenty of guys listed at 6'9'' basically the same height as Shelden. Guy also has the long arms which help him out and his vertical jump while not great wasn't terrible or bad. It was kinda inbetween.
 
You know what's kind of funny is that I have a picture of myself standing next to Charles Barkley and I am 6 feet tall. Charles is maybe 4 inches taller than me so I guess people get a little to worried about measurements. There's a reason why guys that are 7 feet tall don't cut it in the NBA and it has nothing to do with how tall they are.

Not saying Shelden is Barkley(not even remotely close) but get off the whole height thing.
 
BMiller52 said:
Guy also has the long arms which help him out and his vertical jump while not great wasn't terrible or bad. It was kinda inbetween.
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I meant his vertical reach, not his jump. His jump is middle-of-the-road, his reach is another matter. Out of the 79 other guys who showed up for predraft measurements in 2006, only J.P.Batista, Steve Novak and Paul Miller were as tall as Shelden but had less reach. 2007, out of 30 guys who were his height or taller, again, only 3 had less reach. So... he's around the bottom 10% in that category. Just as with his wingspan, I don't know whether it means anything about how he'll play, but it is noteworthy.
 
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To me it's not about where the top of your head is, that is silly.

Wingspam is far more important and if you play bigger than you are I think that's what counts.
 
Height and reach aren't everything. It is all about the fundamentals!
 
fnordius said:
I meant his vertical reach, not his jump. His jump is middle-of-the-road, his reach is another matter. Out of the 79 other guys who showed up for predraft measurements in 2006, only J.P.Batista, Steve Novak and Paul Miller were as tall as Shelden but had less reach. 2007, out of 30 guys who were his height or taller, again, only 3 had less reach. So... he's around the bottom 10% in that category. Just as with his wingspan, I don't know whether it means anything about how he'll play, but it is noteworthy.
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Oh I see what you mean. That's kinda odd but I still think the long wingspan and broad shoulders help him.
 
lets talk about the reach, wingspan and jumping ability of Charles Barkley and see if he was anygood. or Elton Brand
 
IMO it's not about the wingspan or height. It's all about footwork and positions. It's how big you play and your understanding of the game. The two games so far, it looks like Shelden has a good feel of how to play defense. A lot better than Hawes.
 
as one of Jerry Reynolds funnier quotes in recent memory went:

"You don't see many people block shots with the top of their head."
 
Ryle said:
You know what's kind of funny is that I have a picture of myself standing next to Charles Barkley and I am 6 feet tall. Charles is maybe 4 inches taller than me so I guess people get a little to worried about measurements. There's a reason why guys that are 7 feet tall don't cut it in the NBA and it has nothing to do with how tall they are.

Not saying Shelden is Barkley(not even remotely close) but get off the whole height thing.
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That is completely nonsensical. Your saying 7 footers don't cut it in the NBA? Do you WATCH the NBA at all?

I agree it is not all about measurements, because certain players just have an innate knack or ability to produce regardless of size. There is a reason that this sort of data is collected though, beyond notoriously unreliable measurements from college teams. Over time teams have collected data and formed ideas about what sorts of measurements they would prefer to see paired with certain skillsets. It isn't THE deciding factor, but measurements are another piece of the puzzle.

Also, using Charles Barkley as an example is a little tenuous since he was one of the greatest rebounding/banging combo forwards in history for his size. He is more of an exception than an example.
 
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TheRaven said:
That is completely nonsensical. Your saying 7 footers don't cut it in the NBA? Do you WATCH the NBA at all?
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No need to be a jackass..

Not sure what your point is but yes I do watch the NBA and there are alot of 7 footers who can't play worth crap.
 
Timing and basketball sense can make up a huge difference in vertical leap and reach. Our beloved KT is a big midget, a 6-7 center with short arms who gets 8-10 rebs most games by knowing where to be and timing rather than banging and leaping.

Shelden's wing span coupled with banging ability and good timing can make him an awesome threat plus his 4 years at Duke.
 
Shelden certainly has a combination of things going for him on the defensive end, such as that aforementioned wingspan and general core strength, and because of that he'll alter shots a bit and even block some in a set offense when he has time to react and get a feel for the opposition. In fact, it was moreso his experience with banging as well as his wingspan that he accumulated all those blocks in Duke and got the "Landlord" nickname. So while I do expect his blocks to crop out at the 1-1.5 bpg level once he gets consistent minutes and has established himself better at the NBA level, that's probably his threshold given that he's a tad too short, despite his wingspan, and given the fact that he's more earthbound than most bigs, and also a tad too mechanical and robust. That's not a bad thing because we certainly can appreciate a hustling big man who can still play great stay-on-your-feet defense while altering shots, but don't expect him to make jumping jack blocks or sky in the air for rebounds.
 
Ryle said:
Not sure what your point is but yes I do watch the NBA and there are alot of 7 footers who can't play worth crap.
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I think his point was that, if measurements didn't matter, the NBA would consist mainly of a bunch of 5'9"-6'1" guys just like the rest of the population. Of course there are exceptions, but, overall, the NBA is made up of people who are much taller than average. We can go back and forth about the exceptions, but it's not going to change the fact that a guy of average height has little chance of making it in the NBA, and absolutely zero chance of making it as anything but a guard.

The importance of other measurements is less clear, if only because they aren't totally obvious to the casual observer like height is. I don't think that most of them are terribly important, but I'm not very interested in doing a whole statistical workup to determine how important any of them might be. If somebody else wants to, great. Boykins and Muresan prove that the importance of measurements is not infinite, but they do not prove that their importance is zero. If they were zero, we'd find that people with no wingspan (missing one or both arms), or who were unable to run the length of a court in under 30 seconds, were as common in the NBA as among the rest of the population. We don't see that. So it's somewhere between infinity and zero. We can go back and forth about where exactly it is, but unless someone does some serious number crunching around the issue, we're not really going to know what we're talking about, are we?
 
TheRaven said:
That is completely nonsensical. Your saying 7 footers don't cut it in the NBA? Do you WATCH the NBA at all?

I agree it is not all about measurements, because certain players just have an innate knack or ability to produce regardless of size. There is a reason that this sort of data is collected though, beyond notoriously unreliable measurements from college teams. Over time teams have collected data and formed ideas about what sorts of measurements they would prefer to see paired with certain skillsets. It isn't THE deciding factor, but measurements are another piece of the puzzle.

Also, using Charles Barkley as an example is a little tenuous since he was one of the greatest rebounding/banging combo forwards in history for his size. He is more of an exception than an example.
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I've said this before, and to be frank, its getting a little monotnous. If you can play, you can play, and it doesn't matter how tall your are, or how high you can jump, or how quick you are. Do those things help? Yeah, they can. Its like buying a brand new Indy car. But you know what, if you don't know how to drive it, your not going to win many races.

There are many well tooled players that are failures and many players less gifted who are become stars. The Celtics won championships with three front line playes who no one would consider great athlete's. Bird, Mc'hale, Parrish. There are plenty of players who were great rebounders that were undersized. Besides the obvious Barkley, how about Dantley, Ben Wallace, Oakley, etc.

Give me a player who is well schooled in fundamentals, has heart and determination. Give me twelve of those players, and I will win a lot of games. A championship, maybe, with a lot of luck. Quit judging players by their stats at a combine. Take them into consideration, but don't let them influence you anymore than you would, looking at a house from the outside, without seeing the inside.
As an aside. Scotty Sterling, at present, a scout for the Kings, at one time a scout for the Warriors made the statement that Larry Bird was too slow, couldn't jump or defend, and would have a hard time making it in the NBA.
 
bajaden said:
I've said this before, and to be frank, its getting a little monotnous. If you can play, you can play, and it doesn't matter how tall your are, or how high you can jump, or how quick you are. Do those things help? Yeah, they can. Its like buying a brand new Indy car. But you know what, if you don't know how to drive it, your not going to win many races.
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Don't wear yourself out refuting an argument that nobody is making.

Being tall is no substitute for skill, but if you're 5'7" and bench press 45 pounds, there is no amount of skill that's going to land you a job as an NBA center, period. In theory... maybe if you could fly or something. In practice, never.

Skill may matter a lot more, but they both matter.
 
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TR_9 said:
IMO it's not about the wingspan or height. It's all about footwork and positions. It's how big you play and your understanding of the game. The two games so far, it looks like Shelden has a good feel of how to play defense. A lot better than Hawes.
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From what I've seen, he may be a little better on D, but he's a LOT worse than Hawes on O. And he's significantly older than Hawes. Next year is Sheldon's 3rd in the NBA - the do or die year. He better work like heck on his inside post footwork over the summer to insure that he's going to be around for year 4. So far, he looks like he's totally lost when he's guarded within 10 ft of the basket.
 
The thing is ... Shelden doesn't have to be BETTER than Hawes. What we need is for them to complement each other.
 
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