Heart and hustle

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
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[drupal=70]Heart and hustle[/drupal]

As another season winds down, it seems as though we're all struggling to define our team. This includes, apparently, the players and the coaches.

Valid questions are being raised by the fan base about why the veterans are still playing so many minutes. Why is Anthony Johnson filling in for Beno when Quincy Douby could be using the minutes? Why isn't Theus using Shelden Williams more? And why does it seem as though Ron Artest has become a player/coach, announcing his intentions to either play or not play to the team whenever he chooses?

I've talked in earlier blogs about heart and hustle, energy and excitement. I talked about seeing the kids get the majority of minutes and then, I'm somewhat chagrined to admit, I got drawn into the "magic" of the moment and backed down from the criticism. But I was called on it - and rightly so. (One of the many things I love about KF, BTW.)

So I'm back on the right path, I think. I know what I want to see...

HEART AND HUSTLE. I want to see players out there giving it their all and playing like their jobs depended on it (and in some cases, they do). I want to see Coach Theus forget about doing better than last year, if that is his goal, and devise plays for the kids to run. Plays they can execute and learn from.

I want to see focus and dedication to improving our team. Right now that means restoring confidence in at least one case or am I the only one who has noticed that Douby looks a lot like Jason Williams did when he first went to Memphis? Quincy needs to be given enough time on the court to get into his game. Shelden needs to be given enough time to do the same. Hopefully Spencer Hawes' ankle injury is minor and he'll be able to get back on the court to work with Douby and Williams.

Just once I'd like Douby, Martin, Garcia, Williams and Hawes start the game and see how it plays out.

I've been to a fair number of Kings games in my life and it's never been solely about the winning (well, except for the Lakers and the playoffs). The fans have reacted the best when they are one with the players. When the electric feeling of ARCO THUNDER is so strong you can't tell where the court ends and the stands begin. When the players and the fans complete the perfect storm of symbiotic relationships.

HEART AND HUSTLE. Come on, Reggie. Let them run.

The game discussion thread is here.

The PBP thread is here.

Let's get ready for some Kings basketball!!!
 
Just once I'd like Douby, Martin, Garcia, Williams and Hawes start the game and see how it plays out.

Because Anthony Johnson, Martin, Mikki Moore, Brad Miller, and Ron Artest give us a better chance of reaching that exclusive 40-win, draft-spot #14 plateau.

:rolleyes:
 
C'mon now, we drafted Peja @ #14

Right between #13 Kobe and #15 Steve Nash. But that was an insanely deep draft, and our monopoly on European players isn't what it was 12 years ago.

#14s since then: Mo Taylor (retired), Mike Dickerson (retired), William Avery (AEK Athens), Mateen Cleaves (retired)... we may have to wait another decade or two for the next All Star who gets picked at #14.
 
I agree with that the overall trend is higher draft pick = better player, but quality players are picked later then 14 (even domestic players). This years allstar squads had two players picked after 14, Carlos Boozer (35th) and David West (18th). Last year had 6, Steve Nash (15th), Mehmet Okur (38th), Tony Parker (28th), Josh Howard (29th), Jermaine O'Neal (17th), and Gilbert Arenas (31st).
 
I don't see any problem with a 14th pick. The last game i went to was the Toronto Raptors game a week or two ago. I was the guy yelling "defense" as loud as i could. Joe Malloof actually got an attendant to talk to me about being too loud. I have to admit when the fans start bringing ARCO THUNDER to the table, the kings respond with victories. Remember the pistons game this year, I was there...same seat...Anyways, after the pistons game the announcers started talking about how Arco Thunder was back. Truth is its not. Sorry to say, it takes more than one person to bring it back. I wish i had season tickets.....Courtside. I dont know how to appropriately respond to this thread, All i know is RON ARTEST likes it when people yell stuff, and every game i go too, i yell, and he hasn't disappointed me yet(when I AM in attendance)
 
quality players are picked later then 14.

Well, sure. Some All Stars weren't even drafted at all. But it's not exactly common.

Here's a breakdown of our franchise's draft picks from the dawn of time until Peja. Remember that we had literally HUNDREDS of picks later than the first round, because during most of that time there were way more rounds to the draft (12 in 1956, for example).

Top 10 draft picks: Bobby Wanzer (HOF, #10, 1948), Maurice Stokes (HOF, #2, 1955), Hot Rod Hundley (AS, #1, 1957), Bob Boozer (AS, #1, 1959), Oscar Robertson (HOF, #1, 1960), Jerry Lucas (HOF, #6, 1962), Sam Lacey (AS, #5, 1970), Otis Birdsong (AS, #2, 1977), Otis Thorpe (AS, #9, 1984).

Non-top 10 draft picks who did well: Bill Gabor (AS, somewhere in rounds 2-12, 1948), Jack Coleman (AS, #19, 1949), Adrian Smith (AS, #86, 1958), Flynn Robinson (AS, #18, 1965), Nate Archibald (HOF, #19, 1970).

So out of maybe 30 top 10 picks during that period, we netted 4 HOFers and 5 All Stars. Not bad! About 1 in 3...

The 70 or so who were in the top 20 picks account for all of our HOFers and 7 of our 9 non-HOF All Stars. That's about 1 in 6, still not bad.

Out of maybe 350 non-top-20 picks during that period, the others got us 2 All Stars. 1 in 175 is not so good. If you look at the non-top-10s as a group, the odds are still only about 1/70 of getting a great player.

Of course, since Peja we haven't drafted early much, and no AS among them. Geoff's most successful second round pick has been Anthony Johnson, almost none of the others survived their rookie contracts.

So, sure, it's possible to find a Gilbert Arenas or Carlos Boozer as a late pick, but I don't want to die of old age waiting for it. I'll take the 1/3 odds over the 1/70 odds, thank you.
 
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So, sure, it's possible to find a Gilbert Arenas or Carlos Boozer as a late pick, but I don't want to die of old age waiting for it. I'll take the 1/3 odds over the 1/70 odds, thank you.

Oh yeah, I totally agree with you. I'm not saying I'm happy picking at #14. I'd certainly much prefer a top 10 pick, but another poster said that it might be 10 or 20 years before we see another all-star quality 14th pick, which I doubt.
 
Oh yeah, I totally agree with you. I'm not saying I'm happy picking at #14. I'd certainly much prefer a top 10 pick, but another poster said that it might be 10 or 20 years before we see another all-star quality 14th pick, which I doubt.

Umm, that wasn't another poster, that was me.

Once upon a time, the NBA wasn't a big business, the draft was much more of a crapshoot, and you really could get a decent player at #14. Somebody got one about 1 year in 6, back then. But not anymore. Since 1990, the only #14 pick that was an All Star was Peja. One in the last 17. Who knows how long it may be before there's another?
 
Hey, Shelden got some valuable time until Artest decided to play PF and relegate Williams back to the bench.

Blech...

You mean, until Theus decided he was in on the Jerry Reynolds school of coaching, and that Artest is a perfect PF match for Jamison.

Thats not on Artest. Thats on Coach.
 
That was also one of the deepest drafts EVER! This year is no match for that draft. Oh well. :(

I was thinking the same.

Imagine what a team you could make from the '96 guys alone. At PG, Steve Nash backed up by AI. At SG, Kobe backed up by Ray Allen. At center, Camby backed up by Ben Wallace and ZI. And so on... it was just ridiculous.
 
You mean, until Theus decided he was in on the Jerry Reynolds school of coaching, and that Artest is a perfect PF match for Jamison.

Thats not on Artest. Thats on Coach.

Po-TAY-toes, Po-TAH-toes.

I saw Artest motion for a substitute and take himself out of the game. I saw him talking to two assistant coaches while Shelden was doing well and the next thing you know, Williams is out and Artest is back in.

I could easily be wrong but at what point do we simply tell him to sit down and let somebody else have a turn?
 
Po-TAY-toes, Po-TAH-toes.

I saw Artest motion for a substitute and take himself out of the game. I saw him talking to two assistant coaches while Shelden was doing well and the next thing you know, Williams is out and Artest is back in.

I could easily be wrong but at what point do we simply tell him to sit down and let somebody else have a turn?


The assistant coaches were probably telling Ron he was coming back into the game. And the thing where you motion for a substitute and take yourself out of the game is pretty common, I see it happen a lot in college ball. When a guy gets tired he tells the coaching staff and they sub him out.

To get to that point Reggie would actually have to want to play the young guys which he doesn't seem too.
 
Is Coach Reggie's ego getting in the way of playing the young guys: Hawes, Williams, Douby? Is his win total that important at the expense of not playing the young guys?Seems from the comment above that RonRon has too much influence over coach to come and go as HE pleases. OR does RonRon see the potential in Williams and want to get him out 'cause HIS ego is more important than the team?

The substitution pattern is wierd for sure. But winning games now, for no apparent benefit for the team (Kings are in lotto slot #12 best case to #14 worst cast) seems to come back to an ego thing for the new coach. And when the old guys (so-to-speak) aren't getting it done it seemed like last night (Wizard game) he left them in to cough up the 24 point hairball (Kings lead at half was 13 and at one point Wiz got ahead by 11). That's why teams have a bench, when the regulars are not getting it done, bring in the young energetic guys. But not here, not now. :confused:
 
The assistant coaches were probably telling Ron he was coming back into the game. And the thing where you motion for a substitute and take yourself out of the game is pretty common, I see it happen a lot in college ball. When a guy gets tired he tells the coaching staff and they sub him out.

I think it was the other way around. I've heard from people who've sat close to the team who have mentioned that Artest is very emphatic about not wanting to sit out for very long and insisting that he be put back into the game. I've seen him bark at Theus, etc.

Sorry, but I think a lot of times the coaching staff is clearly not in control of the situation with RonRon. And I think last night was one of those times.

Could I be wrong? Certainly, but I'd sure like a logical explanation of some of the substitutions that were made last night... They defy description.
 
I agree with that the overall trend is higher draft pick = better player, but quality players are picked later then 14 (even domestic players). This years allstar squads had two players picked after 14, Carlos Boozer (35th) and David West (18th). Last year had 6, Steve Nash (15th), Mehmet Okur (38th), Tony Parker (28th), Josh Howard (29th), Jermaine O'Neal (17th), and Gilbert Arenas (31st).

DraftChart600x450-1.jpg


If I had continued the table on down for placed 20-30, or second round picks or whatever, the falloff would have been even more dramatic. By the time you are picking #20+ you might get 1 guy every 20 years at a draft position who is a major player. There's no reasonable rebuilding plan that depends on that kind of luck. Its jsut a windfall, same way that the Kevin windfall is the only thing keeping this team from being in an even greater world of hurt right now. But we could draft at Kevin's position for the next 10 years and never land another player even at his level, let alone a superstar.
 
DraftChart600x450-1.jpg


If I had continued the table on down for placed 20-30, or second round picks or whatever, the falloff would have been even more dramatic. By the time you are picking #20+ you might get 1 guy every 20 years at a draft position who is a major player. There's no reasonable rebuilding plan that depends on that kind of luck. Its jsut a windfall, same way that the Kevin windfall is the only thing keeping this team from being in an even greater world of hurt right now. But we could draft at Kevin's position for the next 10 years and never land another player even at his level, let alone a superstar.

What is weird, #13 seems to be the lucky number.
 
Is Coach Reggie's ego getting in the way of playing the young guys: Hawes, Williams, Douby? Is his win total that important at the expense of not playing the young guys?

Maybe it's not all about his ego. I think Reggie wants to beat Muss' record really badly, that way he can prove to everybody that he's the better coach. To me, he's way better than Muss, even if we had lost 10 more games than what Muss had. He's done a good job with what he's been dealt with this year, but he needs to relax and allow Quincy some minutes. Hawes is injured right now but is there harm in giving Sheldon a lowsy 5 minutes while Mikki takes a breather?
 
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