Heart and hustle
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Fear the Putin
Starter
i barf at #14
kupman
Starter
C'mon now, we drafted Peja @ #14
Right between #13 Kobe and #15 Steve Nash. But that was an insanely deep draft, and our monopoly on European players isn't what it was 12 years ago.
#14s since then: Mo Taylor (retired), Mike Dickerson (retired), William Avery (AEK Athens), Mateen Cleaves (retired)... we may have to wait another decade or two for the next All Star who gets picked at #14.
Widowmaker2k
Bench
I agree with that the overall trend is higher draft pick = better player, but quality players are picked later then 14 (even domestic players). This years allstar squads had two players picked after 14, Carlos Boozer (35th) and David West (18th). Last year had 6, Steve Nash (15th), Mehmet Okur (38th), Tony Parker (28th), Josh Howard (29th), Jermaine O'Neal (17th), and Gilbert Arenas (31st).
FakeInjury
Bench
I don't see any problem with a 14th pick. The last game i went to was the Toronto Raptors game a week or two ago. I was the guy yelling "defense" as loud as i could. Joe Malloof actually got an attendant to talk to me about being too loud. I have to admit when the fans start bringing ARCO THUNDER to the table, the kings respond with victories. Remember the pistons game this year, I was there...same seat...Anyways, after the pistons game the announcers started talking about how Arco Thunder was back. Truth is its not. Sorry to say, it takes more than one person to bring it back. I wish i had season tickets.....Courtside. I dont know how to appropriately respond to this thread, All i know is RON ARTEST likes it when people yell stuff, and every game i go too, i yell, and he hasn't disappointed me yet(when I AM in attendance)
Well, sure. Some All Stars weren't even drafted at all. But it's not exactly common.
Here's a breakdown of our franchise's draft picks from the dawn of time until Peja. Remember that we had literally HUNDREDS of picks later than the first round, because during most of that time there were way more rounds to the draft (12 in 1956, for example).
Top 10 draft picks: Bobby Wanzer (HOF, #10, 1948), Maurice Stokes (HOF, #2, 1955), Hot Rod Hundley (AS, #1, 1957), Bob Boozer (AS, #1, 1959), Oscar Robertson (HOF, #1, 1960), Jerry Lucas (HOF, #6, 1962), Sam Lacey (AS, #5, 1970), Otis Birdsong (AS, #2, 1977), Otis Thorpe (AS, #9, 1984).
Non-top 10 draft picks who did well: Bill Gabor (AS, somewhere in rounds 2-12, 1948), Jack Coleman (AS, #19, 1949), Adrian Smith (AS, #86, 1958), Flynn Robinson (AS, #18, 1965), Nate Archibald (HOF, #19, 1970).
So out of maybe 30 top 10 picks during that period, we netted 4 HOFers and 5 All Stars. Not bad! About 1 in 3...
The 70 or so who were in the top 20 picks account for all of our HOFers and 7 of our 9 non-HOF All Stars. That's about 1 in 6, still not bad.
Out of maybe 350 non-top-20 picks during that period, the others got us 2 All Stars. 1 in 175 is not so good. If you look at the non-top-10s as a group, the odds are still only about 1/70 of getting a great player.
Of course, since Peja we haven't drafted early much, and no AS among them. Geoff's most successful second round pick has been Anthony Johnson, almost none of the others survived their rookie contracts.
So, sure, it's possible to find a Gilbert Arenas or Carlos Boozer as a late pick, but I don't want to die of old age waiting for it. I'll take the 1/3 odds over the 1/70 odds, thank you.
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Widowmaker2k
Bench
Oh yeah, I totally agree with you. I'm not saying I'm happy picking at #14. I'd certainly much prefer a top 10 pick, but another poster said that it might be 10 or 20 years before we see another all-star quality 14th pick, which I doubt.
Umm, that wasn't another poster, that was me.
Once upon a time, the NBA wasn't a big business, the draft was much more of a crapshoot, and you really could get a decent player at #14. Somebody got one about 1 year in 6, back then. But not anymore. Since 1990, the only #14 pick that was an All Star was Peja. One in the last 17. Who knows how long it may be before there's another?
SacKings384
Starter
Glad to see Reggie playing the young guys tonight... /sarcasm
Hey, Shelden got some valuable time until Artest decided to play PF and relegate Williams back to the bench.
Blech...
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
That was also one of the deepest drafts EVER! This year is no match for that draft. Oh well.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
You mean, until Theus decided he was in on the Jerry Reynolds school of coaching, and that Artest is a perfect PF match for Jamison.
Thats not on Artest. Thats on Coach.
That was also one of the deepest drafts EVER! This year is no match for that draft. Oh well.
I was thinking the same.
Imagine what a team you could make from the '96 guys alone. At PG, Steve Nash backed up by AI. At SG, Kobe backed up by Ray Allen. At center, Camby backed up by Ben Wallace and ZI. And so on... it was just ridiculous.
Po-TAY-toes, Po-TAH-toes.
I saw Artest motion for a substitute and take himself out of the game. I saw him talking to two assistant coaches while Shelden was doing well and the next thing you know, Williams is out and Artest is back in.
I could easily be wrong but at what point do we simply tell him to sit down and let somebody else have a turn?
The assistant coaches were probably telling Ron he was coming back into the game. And the thing where you motion for a substitute and take yourself out of the game is pretty common, I see it happen a lot in college ball. When a guy gets tired he tells the coaching staff and they sub him out.
To get to that point Reggie would actually have to want to play the young guys which he doesn't seem too.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Is Coach Reggie's ego getting in the way of playing the young guys: Hawes, Williams, Douby? Is his win total that important at the expense of not playing the young guys?Seems from the comment above that RonRon has too much influence over coach to come and go as HE pleases. OR does RonRon see the potential in Williams and want to get him out 'cause HIS ego is more important than the team?
The substitution pattern is wierd for sure. But winning games now, for no apparent benefit for the team (Kings are in lotto slot #12 best case to #14 worst cast) seems to come back to an ego thing for the new coach. And when the old guys (so-to-speak) aren't getting it done it seemed like last night (Wizard game) he left them in to cough up the 24 point hairball (Kings lead at half was 13 and at one point Wiz got ahead by 11). That's why teams have a bench, when the regulars are not getting it done, bring in the young energetic guys. But not here, not now.
The substitution pattern is wierd for sure. But winning games now, for no apparent benefit for the team (Kings are in lotto slot #12 best case to #14 worst cast) seems to come back to an ego thing for the new coach. And when the old guys (so-to-speak) aren't getting it done it seemed like last night (Wizard game) he left them in to cough up the 24 point hairball (Kings lead at half was 13 and at one point Wiz got ahead by 11). That's why teams have a bench, when the regulars are not getting it done, bring in the young energetic guys. But not here, not now.
I think it was the other way around. I've heard from people who've sat close to the team who have mentioned that Artest is very emphatic about not wanting to sit out for very long and insisting that he be put back into the game. I've seen him bark at Theus, etc.
Sorry, but I think a lot of times the coaching staff is clearly not in control of the situation with RonRon. And I think last night was one of those times.
Could I be wrong? Certainly, but I'd sure like a logical explanation of some of the substitutions that were made last night... They defy description.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
If I had continued the table on down for placed 20-30, or second round picks or whatever, the falloff would have been even more dramatic. By the time you are picking #20+ you might get 1 guy every 20 years at a draft position who is a major player. There's no reasonable rebuilding plan that depends on that kind of luck. Its jsut a windfall, same way that the Kevin windfall is the only thing keeping this team from being in an even greater world of hurt right now. But we could draft at Kevin's position for the next 10 years and never land another player even at his level, let alone a superstar.
bozzwell
Starter
If I had continued the table on down for placed 20-30, or second round picks or whatever, the falloff would have been even more dramatic. By the time you are picking #20+ you might get 1 guy every 20 years at a draft position who is a major player. There's no reasonable rebuilding plan that depends on that kind of luck. Its jsut a windfall, same way that the Kevin windfall is the only thing keeping this team from being in an even greater world of hurt right now. But we could draft at Kevin's position for the next 10 years and never land another player even at his level, let alone a superstar.
What is weird, #13 seems to be the lucky number.
acisking
Bench
Prob cuz of Kobe
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Kobe and Karl Malone both slipped to that same spot, so you had two really rare talents just fall into the same slot.
bloom
Starter
Maybe it's not all about his ego. I think Reggie wants to beat Muss' record really badly, that way he can prove to everybody that he's the better coach. To me, he's way better than Muss, even if we had lost 10 more games than what Muss had. He's done a good job with what he's been dealt with this year, but he needs to relax and allow Quincy some minutes. Hawes is injured right now but is there harm in giving Sheldon a lowsy 5 minutes while Mikki takes a breather?
