Harry Giles thread back on track ;)

Harry's NBA Ceiling


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Here's what I think about the Kings' problem:

I've been a Kings fan since the Webber's era but have turn away from watching them because they been losing every year and it's hard to watch. I am so glad they got rid of a lot of dumb players on the team, low basketball IQ. But there is a couple players on the team that I still cannot stand. One being Kosta Koufos...the guy is average at best. There is no reason to play him when he doesn't do jack for the team. In fact, he actually hurt the Kings by being on the court because his inability to out-muscled and out-jumped bigger athletic big in the NBA. He doesn't intimidate any one with his length because he has no interior defense. He doesn't hustle and isn't an energy guy. He can't shoot from mid-range well. His hook shots are hit and miss. So what is the reason for playing him? There is too many deficiencies area. Now if you're going to argue that because he's fundamental and that he follow the plays and basically play it the right way....then it doesn't make much sense because again his deficiencies are lacking.

As I've written on a post before, Harry Giles should replaced him. Giles show quickness, excellent help defense because he has excellent awareness. Giles see the floor way better than Kosta. There are times I seen a dude drove to the basket and Kosta was like what's going on? It's pathetic. I am sorry, but Giles is way better and deserve more minutes. Not only that, he hustle, block shots...and probably can shoot too. I mean what more do you want from him? Oh because he doesn't play fundamental like Kosta? Give me a break. From what I seen when Giles is on the court, he play great to me. In fact, he is the reason that put some life into this team with his energy and rebound. His awareness help on weak side defense is amazing. The problem with this young Kings team is IQ and smart plays. And one player that stick out to me with low basketball IQ is Willie Cauley-Stein.

Did you see him try to throw that break away pass only to be intercepted because his thought process is bit delay? When his teammate was open, he didn't pass....but when he passed it, it was too late. And he needs to stop driving the basketball forcing layups like he's the man the team? Seriously? To me, Willie Cauley-Stein IS NOT A STARTER material. I am sorry. The reason he is starting for the team is because the team got nobody tall and lengthy enough to rebound the ball. But the dude is really out of control when driving to the hoop, his mid-range is average at best. The Kings got outrebounded by the Nuggets last night not because of Willie, but because some of their other players are not being taught to box out when the ball is in the air. Players like Bjelicia, Buddy Hield, Bojdanovic and De'Aaron Fox. The problem is also coaching. When you see these many players not doing the fundamental in multiple games, it means there is lack of communications from the coach to the players.

My final statement in addressing the King's issues. The Kings sorely needed BIG men that not only can rebound but also shoot. Tell me how many big men they have that can do both? I am not talking about big men that can just rebound that can't shoot, but a player that can do both. Well, Willie Cauley-Stein is out of the picture because he can't shoot, but just rebound and his low basketball IQ is a no-no. Bagley III might fit the bill because he can definitely shoot and rebound. So is Giles. Need to get rid of Kosta. Today's NBA requires BIG that can shoot and rebound if you want to dominate this league. This is why Denver Nuggets are so dangerous because they have big that can shoot from outside and not just that, they're also great rebounders. So what can the Kings do next year as far as acquiring talents with their expiring contracts? I think you have to look at players like Kevin Love. He fits the bill. Even Cousins fit the bill assuming he's changed but i don't think the Kings are interested. Whiteside might work. Anyway, that's my 2cents on the Kings.
Kosta koufos is a poor poor mans Plumlee

Also, when was the last time a king took a charge???
 
Getting the discussion back on track, I think the Kings have the next Jokic in Giles. Both have big hands, elite court vision and a nice touch. Jokic is 250 and Giles is 240 but can add some weight with age.

Joeger just has to play him like Malone plays Jokic.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Not exactly. Willie's style of play fits our running style, and hence he has more value to us. Also, with his RFA status, teams are not sure whether they will be able to retain him, and if so, at what cost. So, they won't give up too many assets to get him.

As for getting another big in return, I did assume that the main motivation to trade him would be to beef up the SF position. Other pieces involved would not be significant, and the trade would effectively open up more time for Bagley and Giles. The team can certainly aim towards getting some other big in return. Haven't thought of possible deals towards that though.

As for keeping/trading WCS (or any other player), you don't keep them just for the sake of continuity, and you don't trade them, just because you don't like a particular aspect of their game. WCS serves a role on this team, and does so reasonably well. If you think someone else can do this job better, and have the means to get him, try to do so by all means. This is more true in case of WCS, since he's going to be an RFA, and might cost more than we are willing to pay. That said, just the suggestion to trade him and "get some other big who defends and rebounds" doesn't help. Is such a big available, and at what cost? Then we can have the discussion.

In any case, I don't want to hijack the Giles thread with this discussion anymore. I think if we discuss it more, it should be a separate thread.
I agree with this. Have been saying the same for quite a while now. But one of the things that others have brought up is if in fact WCS doesn't get a high unreasonable offer from another team and the Kings match it, what then? Is he really their starting center going forward? That's doubtful in my view. And if he's a guy off the bench would he be willing to do that in favor of somebody else brought in, or maybe Bagley? Maybe he could. But he's been a starter for quite a while now on this team and a demotion probably wouldn't sit well, imo. So there is a psychological/team chemistry element to this situation as well as just what WCS does or does not bring to the table.
 
Well, there’s the “data,” and then there’s the reality, which is sometimes hidden like a trade secret.
Based on the eye test, I’d wager that Jokic has 20lbs right now on Giles. Also, if we were measuring height from the top of the shoulders, Jokic looks to have 2” of height on Giles.
But none of this is a limitation for Giles. He will get stronger. And he’s got length and paws. He and Bagley just have to figure out a way to play together that is complementary.
 
Well, there’s the “data,” and then there’s the reality, which is sometimes hidden like a trade secret.
Based on the eye test, I’d wager that Jokic has 20lbs right now on Giles. Also, if we were measuring height from the top of the shoulders, Jokic looks to have 2” of height on Giles.
But none of this is a limitation for Giles. He will get stronger. And he’s got length and paws. He and Bagley just have to figure out a way to play together that is complementary.
Jokic does have 2 inches in height but for rebounding radius wingspan matters.
 
Well, there’s the “data,” and then there’s the reality, which is sometimes hidden like a trade secret.
Based on the eye test, I’d wager that Jokic has 20lbs right now on Giles. Also, if we were measuring height from the top of the shoulders, Jokic looks to have 2” of height on Giles.
But none of this is a limitation for Giles. He will get stronger. And he’s got length and paws. He and Bagley just have to figure out a way to play together that is complementary.
Your kidding on the last point right. Have you seen the many times Harry has passed to Bagley in a high low? Watch Jokic and Plumlee than add more athleticism to get a vision. Would like to see Harry at the high post, Bagley at the low post, Beli at the three point line, Fox running off a Beli-Giles double screen, and Bogdan or Buddy spotting up at the 3
 
Agreed that, in limited minutes going back to summer league, Harry and Marvin seemed to compliment each other very nicely. But I say that with some hesitancy as the coaching staff seems to disagree based on the rotation choices so far this year.
 
Agreed that, in limited minutes going back to summer league, Harry and Marvin seemed to compliment each other very nicely. But I say that with some hesitancy as the coaching staff seems to disagree based on the rotation choices so far this year.
Small sample size but so far Giles and Bagley haven't been productive on the court together. If the Kings weren't fighting for the playoffs I think we would have seen them play a lot more but I don't think Joerger wanted to risk it at the expense of a possible playoff run.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2019/lineups/
 
Small sample size but so far Giles and Bagley haven't been productive on the court together. If the Kings weren't fighting for the playoffs I think we would have seen them play a lot more but I don't think Joerger wanted to risk it at the expense of a possible playoff run.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2019/lineups/
So what am I missing? I looked at your link and don’t see Giles in any of the pairs. Can you expand it?
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Depending on the return, the sooner the better.

This season isn’t about the playoffs, and we were fooling ourselves thinking otherwise. It’s about improvement (we have that) and development.

Bagley/Giles is the future, and I’m ready for it now.
Bagley/Giles/Kosta makes sense as a big man grouping.

WCS as he is currently playing and whoever does not.
Getting the discussion back on track, I think the Kings have the next Jokic in Giles. Both have big hands, elite court vision and a nice touch. Jokic is 250 and Giles is 240 but can add some weight with age.

Joeger just has to play him like Malone plays Jokic.
In what world is chubby rich man’s Brad Miller 250 pounds? Boogie’s listed at 270 and Jokic is at least that.
 
Let’s chill on the Jokic talk Giles will never come close to that
This is a funny statement considering not many knew Jokic was going to develop into the player he’s developed into the past few years.

Considering the talent, athleticism and BBIQ that Giles has, he could end up being even better for all you know or anybody else knows.
 
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