Hansen behind STOP $$$

[Trueblood]

IF this goes to the voters I really fear this thing goes down to defeat. It's gonna get dirty and your gonna see money coming in from down south and up north to defeat this thing. If you convince voters that tax money is gonna be used and that this is a bad deal for the tax payer it will go down big. This whole thing is so dirty its infuriating.

I also want to know what is going to be done about STOP blatantly lying about the arena deal. Doesn't that put the entire signature gathering venture in doubt?

Unfortunately, Brick is right. I talked to someone who was anti 49ers stadium and he said that people who were pro 49ers stadium blatantly lied in order to get people to vote in favor of taxation to build the stadium. Keep in mind that this guy is anti stadium so take it with a grain of salt but this was his explanation when I asked if CDT or Region Builders had legal means to defeat STOP if it could be proved that they lied in order to gain signatures. Here's his explanation...

...... The signature gatherers for the 49ers stadium initiative (the initiative written by the 49ers attorneys, not by our city staff) lied to people to get them to sign so that the misleading initiative with the wording the 49ers wanted made it onto the ballot. The signature gatherers made things up (or were told to provide mis-information), such as ‘if we don’t use the redevelopment money on the stadium, the state will take it back’ (it never was state money, RDA is local property tax money) or ‘if you don’t sign this, you won’t get a chance to vote’ which wasn’t true – the city council could have put a more neutral city-staff written ballot measure on the ballot.

It won’t matter that the signature gatherers make stuff up, as long as the signatures are from valid, registered voters, and enough are collected, it will go to a vote. Voters have the responsibility to read the text which is required on the initiative they are signing. And it also won’t matter if either side lies during an arena ballot campaign – campaign materials and the lies included within won’t mean diddly in a court of law because of freedom of speech. So pro-arena forces are free to lie to the public to try to get a ballot measure for an arena to pass.........

 

[VF21]

Unfortunately, Brick is right. I talked to someone who was anti 49ers stadium and he said that people who were pro 49ers stadium blatantly lied in order to get people to vote in favor of taxation to build the stadium. Keep in mind that this guy is anti stadium so take it with a grain of salt but this was his explanation when I asked if CDT or Region Builders had legal means to defeat STOP if it could be proved that they lied in order to gain signatures. Here's his explanation...

...... The signature gatherers for the 49ers stadium initiative (the initiative written by the 49ers attorneys, not by our city staff) lied to people to get them to sign so that the misleading initiative with the wording the 49ers wanted made it onto the ballot. The signature gatherers made things up (or were told to provide mis-information), such as ‘if we don’t use the redevelopment money on the stadium, the state will take it back’ (it never was state money, RDA is local property tax money) or ‘if you don’t sign this, you won’t get a chance to vote’ which wasn’t true – the city council could have put a more neutral city-staff written ballot measure on the ballot.

It won’t matter that the signature gatherers make stuff up, as long as the signatures are from valid, registered voters, and enough are collected, it will go to a vote. Voters have the responsibility to read the text which is required on the initiative they are signing. And it also won’t matter if either side lies during an arena ballot campaign – campaign materials and the lies included within won’t mean diddly in a court of law because of freedom of speech. So pro-arena forces are free to lie to the public to try to get a ballot measure for an arena to pass.........

Um, the pro-arena people aren't the ones lying. Not sure what you're trying to say, but the arena deal has been transparent and above-board the whole time. It's the STOP people who are and have been lying about how it will be funded, etc.

 

[Trueblood]

Um, the pro-arena people aren't the ones lying. Not sure what you're trying to say, but the arena deal has been transparent and above-board the whole time. It's the STOP people who are and have been lying about how it will be funded, etc.

That's not me saying anything, that's the explanation from the anti 49er stadium guy. That's why I flanked his explanation with dots. I'm the one who has been pushing for legal means to stop STOP so to speak. What he's saying was that the pro 49ers stadium people were lying to get people to vote for the stadium and that it was legal. But if it's legal for them to do it, it's legal for STOP to lie as well and there's nothing we can do about it. His explanation is that it's up to the voter to become educated about what is on the ballot and to vote accordingly.

 

[VF21]

That's not me saying anything, that's the explanation from the anti 49er stadium guy. That's why I flanked his explanation with dots. I'm the one who has been pushing for legal means to stop STOP so to speak. What he's saying was that the pro 49ers stadium people were lying to get people to vote for the stadium and that it was legal. But if it's legal for them to do it, it's legal for STOP to lie as well and there's nothing we can do about it. His explanation is that it's up to the voter to become educated about what is on the ballot and to vote accordingly.

Maybe it's just me, but I think the two situations are drastically different. Theoretically, this shouldn't even be eligible for a vote as it's not spending tax dollars. It's up to voters to understand the representation portion of government and realize that not everything the city or county or state decides to do is a matter for a ballot. The votes were cast when people elected the members of the city council to represent them in matters exactly like this.

THAT'S the real point here. I'm not that versed in the SF situation to be able to argue it effectively, but I do trust that the City Council took the proper action. Should people also be voting for the millions of $$$ being spent to renovate the Community Center or the Crocker Museum? What about voting on whether or not the contracts for city workers should be renegotiated?

I'm probably getting off-topic so I'll stop here, but I think you can at least get the gist of what I'm saying.

 

[fansinceday1]

STOP disgusts me because they are hypocrits with an odd fixation on the arena. Councilman Steve Hansen brought up a good point today at a debate between the two sides at the sacramento press club.

"The airport project was a billion dollar project. Who remembers the initiative campaign to put that to a referendum?"

 

[VF21]

STOP disgusts me because they are hypocrits with an odd fixation on the arena. Councilman Steve Hansen brought up a good point today at a debate between the two sides at the sacramento press club.

"The airport project was a billion dollar project. Who remembers the initiative campaign to put that to a referendum?"

Thank you! That pretty much sums up what I was trying to point out, and much more effectively.

 

[nebs]

That is a very good point. What was their response if any?

 

[fansinceday1]

News didn't report on a response. Im sure they didn't have one cause councilman Hansen is right, there was no opposition that I can remember.

 

[VF21]

I still think the main target in all of this is Kevin Johnson. He's a rising star in California politics. If the opposition can take away the crown jewel of his administration - the arena deal and redevelopment of downtown - he is pretty much chopped off at the knees.

 

[kennadog]

Well, people are angry now that many of them realized they were deceived by the petition signature gatherers. They are also angry about it being Chris Hansen's money that paid signature gatherers. After all, Hansen isn't opposed to public funding for arenas. He was willing to let Seattle help pay for his arena. His obvious motivation was to try and block the arena in Sacramento and he found the perfect dupes for his revenge scheme in STOP.

By the way, the pro-arena folks have turn in petitions from 3,000 people asking to have their names removed from STOP's petition. The city clerk said the most withdrawal petitions they ever received on an initiative before was 80. That's a reflection of voter anger over being manipulated and deceived.

 

[VF21]

I've mentioned before that I do not believe in coincidence. So, with that in mind, the news that Steve Ballmer announced today that he is stepping down as CEO of Microsoft was interesting to say the least:

“There is never a perfect time for this type of transition, but now is the right time,” Mr. Ballmer said in a statement on the company’s Web site.

Read more

 

[BMiller52]

I've mentioned before that I do not believe in coincidence. So, with that in mind, the news that Steve Ballmer announced today that he is stepping down as CEO of Microsoft was interesting to say the least:



Read more

A lot of people said he wasn't doing a good job including some former microsoft high ups. I'm not really surprised. At least now I can buy the next xbox without feeling guilty or angry at myself about it. Not sure how related to our situation it really is but it's good news IMO.

 

[ninjabiscuit]

Bill Simmons just put out a mailbag where he addresses the issue of Hansen trying to derail the arena (among many other things). His take is that although what he's doing is slimy, Hansen believes that it's his only choice. Expansion is not really an option, and with the valuations going up and up, no one wants to sell their team right now (including the owner of the Bucks). Simmons argues that Hansen's only play is to keep causing problems for the Sacramento arena, and tell the league that he'll back off if they give him an expansion team.

Here's the link. It's about halfway down the page.

 

[Bricklayer]

Bill Simmons just put out a mailbag where he addresses the issue of Hansen trying to derail the arena (among many other things). His take is that although what he's doing is slimy, Hansen believes that it's his only choice. Expansion is not really an option, and with the valuations going up and up, no one wants to sell their team right now (including the owner of the Bucks). Simmons argues that Hansen's only play is to keep causing problems for the Sacramento arena, and tell the league that he'll back off if they give him an expansion team.

Here's the link. It's about halfway down the page.

Simmons can be funny, but as usual he's just not very bright.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Simmons can be funny, but as usual he's just not very bright.

Bill Simmons isn't very right, but I might agree with the general point. The league has not wanted expansion, and I'm sure Chris Hansen has some type of inside knowledge regarding the prospects for expansion/relocation that we might not have. It's actually pretty uncommon to get the chance to not only buy a team, but move it as well. Hansen may be cornered into thinking this is his only immediate bet during the course of his MOU. there is a part of me that feels sorry for him

 

[PurpleHaze]

Simmons can be funny, but as usual he's just not very bright.

You mean like a modern day Peter Vecsey - except at least Simmons gets occasional chuckle

Wonder what ever happened to Vecsey since he's been supplanted by so many other NBA writers of note in past few years - at least on national level? Maybe he just got tired of all those lawsuits against him with media big wigs branding him as a pariah.

 

[VF21]

Bill Simmons isn't very right, but I might agree with the general point. The league has not wanted expansion, and I'm sure Chris Hansen has some type of inside knowledge regarding the prospects for expansion/relocation that we might not have. It's actually pretty uncommon to get the chance to not only buy a team, but move it as well. Hansen may be cornered into thinking this is his only immediate bet during the course of his MOU. there is a part of me that feels sorry for him

I hope it's a really, really, really little part.

Hansen is spoiled, rich, and used to getting his own way regardless of whom he steps on in the process. If he thinks the only way to get a team is to bully the NBA, he's also dumber than a huge box of rocks. He purposefully dealt with the Maloofs in an attempt to steal the Kings away from Sacramento. He only showed chagrin when he got caught doing something even more smarmy.

Smarmy and cutthroat may be part and parcel of being an owner in the NBA, but they don't advertise it the way Hansen did. The best way for him to ensure that Seattle never sees an NBA team in their city again is for him to continue to try and force his will on Stern and Silver.

 

[ninjabiscuit]

I've found Simmons and other national types especially irritating during this whole thing. I do think it's possible that what Simmons is saying IS what Hansen thinks, though. Notice that I'm not agreeing that it's the right thing to do...just that Hansen may believe it.

 

[diggining]

This is also why the Hansen leak is actually really bad news for Seattle fans. The fact that he is trying to sabotage Sacramento is an indication that Hansen is desperate; the fact that Hansen is desperate makes it more likely that he thinks the NBA is not inclined to expand into Seattle any time soon. And I am still inclined to think that there is some positive correlation between what Hansen believes about his chances of getting an expansion franchise, and the actual probability of the NBA expanding into Seattle.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I hope it's a really, really, really little part.

Hansen is spoiled, rich, and used to getting his own way regardless of whom he steps on in the process. If he thinks the only way to get a team is to bully the NBA, he's also dumber than a huge box of rocks. He purposefully dealt with the Maloofs in an attempt to steal the Kings away from Sacramento. He only showed chagrin when he got caught doing something even more smarmy.

Smarmy and cutthroat may be part and parcel of being an owner in the NBA, but they don't advertise it the way Hansen did. The best way for him to ensure that Seattle never sees an NBA team in their city again is for him to continue to try and force his will on Stern and Silver.

Yeah VF21 it is only a small part. Obviously the largest part of me being a Kings fan who wants to see the city he lives in develop sees Hansen as the douche that he is (and he never deserved a fake nice guy persona) that has been trying to steal my team in a strong-arming and underhanded way for the last 9 months. Now that I consider him no longer a threat and out of the picture, and I don't consider the signatures he has to be a threat, I just see him as pathetic and some of the hate has turned to empathy.

 

[VF21]

Yeah VF21 it is only a small part. Obviously the largest part of me being a Kings fan who wants to see the city he lives in develop sees Hansen as the douche that he is (and he never deserved a fake nice guy persona) that has been trying to steal my team in a strong-arming and underhanded way for the last 9 months. Now that I consider him no longer a threat and out of the picture, and I don't consider the signatures he has to be a threat, I just see him as pathetic and some of the hate has turned to empathy.

Fair enough.

 

[John Galt]

I hope someday soon there is a Supersonics team, and Hansen is a spectator only... on the outside looking in for the rest of his life.

 

[BMiller52]

I hope it's a really, really, really little part.

Hansen is spoiled, rich, and used to getting his own way regardless of whom he steps on in the process. If he thinks the only way to get a team is to bully the NBA, he's also dumber than a huge box of rocks. He purposefully dealt with the Maloofs in an attempt to steal the Kings away from Sacramento. He only showed chagrin when he got caught doing something even more smarmy.

Smarmy and cutthroat may be part and parcel of being an owner in the NBA, but they don't advertise it the way Hansen did. The best way for him to ensure that Seattle never sees an NBA team in their city again is for him to continue to try and force his will on Stern and Silver.

This. I wish nothing good at all on Hansen. Not saying I wish him harm, but I can't stand anything about him and I have no sympathy at all. Dude deserves to pay for what he's done to Sac.

 

[Turgenev]

This. I wish nothing good at all on Hansen. Not saying I wish him harm, but I can't stand anything about him and I have no sympathy at all. Dude deserves to pay for what he's done to Sac.

You cant escape who you are. That is his pay/ punishment. One can only imagine he leads an incomplete life.

His desperation to obtain an NBA team reminds a lot of the Simpsons episode where Mr Burns drained the Loch Ness and caught the monster because he wanted to be loved like Richard Branson.

 

[nebs]

Maybe the NBA really did tell him to back off when it was apparent Vivek was legit. I remember rumors of that... but no he just kept upping the Seattle bid etc.

 

[Brac-o-matic]

This. I wish nothing good at all on Hansen. Not saying I wish him harm, but I can't stand anything about him and I have no sympathy at all. Dude deserves to pay for what he's done to Sac.

While I understand, and agree with, your sentiment, IMO the things he has 'done to Sac' are (1) driven the Maloofs to sell, and made enough key errors in judgment so they were sold to us, and (2) created a huge ethical hurdle for STOP to deal with, and maybe never overcome. I know he has tried to hurt Sac in many ways. And he keeps helping us instead.

 

[BMiller52]

While I understand, and agree with, your sentiment, IMO the things he has 'done to Sac' are (1) driven the Maloofs to sell, and made enough key errors in judgment so they were sold to us, and (2) created a huge ethical hurdle for STOP to deal with, and maybe never overcome. I know he has tried to hurt Sac in many ways. And he keeps helping us instead.

lol fair enough, I guess I should have said "what he's tried to do to Sac". Point blank he seems like a bad guy.

 

[Chubbs]

lol fair enough, I guess I should have said "what he's tried to do to Sac". Point blank he seems like a bad guy.

Agreed there. He's such a bad guy though, he has helped us many times along the way. At this point, everyone has turned on him. It's nice to see.

 

[annihilator_33]

Ryan Lillis ‏@Ryan_Lillis 1m
BREAKING: Hansen says he will 'take steps' to prevent his paid sigs to be filed with STOP

Ryan Lillis ‏@Ryan_Lillis 1m
Hansen: I completely agree with the numerous Kings fans who have taken the time to write me and suggest this course of action

 

[VF21]

This should STOP the insanity once and for all. If STOP doesn't have access to those questionable signatures, there's not much chance they'll be able to hoodwink 22,000 city residents into signing new ones.