Grades v. Wolves 11/14

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We are the champions, my friends...

Because of the late start, I am going to leave these themeless in an effort to just get them done.

Artest ( B ) -- looked good in his first action, and dominated Ryan Gomes defensively. In the early going was not particularly gunning up shots, but was interesting that his mere presence as a guy who dominates the ball seemed to bump Keivn back into passive land. Threw a couple of conspicuously bad passes in the late second, one rocket to Mikki which even Webb could not have caught in those big oven mitts, and then a terrible fastbreak dropoff pass to Kevin that missed him by 3ft. Came out after half and tried, and failed, on two post moves to open the quarter, and it was a sign of thing to come as he definitely shot too much in the third, and was disrupting our flow. Kept us close in the 4th with a series of longballs, and also created much of our offense in the quarter by drawing attention in the post. A pretty good return to action, of course with the question being the inevitable one about whether he and Kevin can coexist. We didn't lose this one because of our offense though.

Moore ( B- ) -- Best game as a King. Which ain't saying much, but for a night he did not compeltely suck. Largely sucked, sure. But did some of the things he can do. Did try to fumble an early pass from Artest, but picked it back up and layed it up. Had no luck guarding Jefferson, which is not a surprise, but did take several charges in the third, which appears to be his only effective form of defense. In general displayed his true role in the NBA, which is to play off of superior players. He was getting badly exposed with our depleted lineups where we needed him to actually be good. Tonight he as able to just float along and score as a result of other guy's efforts, and it was to better effect. Did embarass himself with some ridiculous screaming and yowling after a gorilla dunk +1. Obnoxious if a great player does it. Comical if Mikki Moore does it while his team is losing to one of the worst teams in basketball in front of 11 fans and the peanut vendor. And Mikki of course was again nowhere on the glass while we got ruined there.

Miller ( B- ) -- played pretty well back in the better structure. Offensively that is. Was back to more of a normal looking Brad structure with jumpers and drives off of the jumpers. Did not get on the glass though, and Jefferson ate him up nearly as bad as Mikki. Rebounded better in the 4th, but also spent much of the quarter getting chewed up by little old tubby Antoine Walker. A big step up offensively, but I think all in all we would have been better off with the manimal Brad from the recent homestand who hit the glass and blocked the occasional shot.

Martin ( C ) -- very quiet first quarter, and maybe not responding well to the sudden competition for shots. In fact was 0-5 from the field by the late second quarter. Perhaps over-deferential, as he actually made some pretty good first half passes in the otherwise quiet first half, but got nothing going himself until finally hitting a jumper and getting some gift FTs in the final seconds. Even worse, he was getting scorched on the other end of the court by Rashad McCants, who went for a caareer high. Then to add the cherry on top, came out of the locker room at halftime and got into a sniping match with Theus about somewthing, and was pulled from the game at the 9 minute mark. Bad. Right after hitting a three too. Came back in with 4 minutes to go in the quarter and looked like he had a little fire in his belly. Was aggressive for a few minutes, and quickly racked up some points including an unlikelt heave after a hard bump for the foul. And despite the fiorst half brownout, amazingly finished 7-17 from the field again. I think that is literally the 4th time he's shot 7-17 in our 8 games this season. But this was one of the ones without the free throws to lift the stats. Still scored 22, but felt like less, and included a number of missed shots late, including one corner three that hti the side of the backboard. And with the defensive issues and the apparent spat with the coach I don't think the C is unwarranted given what we've come to expect from Kevin.
 
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Udrih ( B- ) -- played a strong first quarter, and I think generally benefitted from the stronger structure of having soemthing that approached an actual NBA lineup. Beno ran the team, hit his shots, and generally took only good ones. Did not rack up assists though, and based on his caerer you really don't expect him too. Was part of a better passing effort tonight though, and jsut having a PG of sorts running the show may have helped. Unfortunately after playing well most of the night, he really struggled down the stretch, forcing shots and turning it over repeatedly, including twice on one play in the last 5 minutes (Brad restole the first turnover, so Beno then threw it right back away). I was struggling a bit here, because at one point I was thinking this was another B+ type solid performance. But the late mistakes really helped finish us against an 0-5 team. And just looking at our overall grades I'm feeling to much leniency. So double dock here.

Cisco ( C+ ) -- well, back to the bench, and was fairly quiet off of it. Although one thing that did seem to happen with he and Salmons coming off the pine was that they maybe came in with more of a passing mentality. Cisco though retained more aggression than John did, and his problem was missing some wide open shots including a wide open camp out there and roasta marshmellow three that barely drew iron. Overall, not much impact.

Salmons ( D+ ) -- didn't respond well to being rebenched, and while I was procrastinating bringing out these grades, it filters out that he had some sort of blowup in the locker room after the game. Lovely. In the game there wasn't much to talk about. Theus decided to start his most conventional lineup -- Beno/Martin/Artest/Moore/Miller -- wiht the problem being that our top 3 reserves then were all primarily OGs (Salmons, Cisco, Douby), one of whom happened to be averaging 20ppg coming in. And John did not respond. Was very quiet all night. Made a few passes, but was basically passive. And then of course the blowout after the game. And you could kind of see it coming just by circumstance. get a guy averging 20ppg for 7 games, and suddenly he isn't going to be nearly so cooperative about heading back to the bench. And it has to be said about John too -- talented player. But the career question has always been can he play with other talented players? He can put up numbers if you just throw him out there and give him the ball...while you lose. But put him out there wiht other guys who want the ball, bring him off the bench, whatever, and the poerformances have always been inconsistent. So... Kevin was unhappy, John was unhappy...lovely. John was not terrible out there. Just irrelevant. And I will freely admit to knocking his grade down from a C- after hearing about the postgame stuff. Losing teams have a tough time with chemistry, but you need everybody to stick together or it can become a real mess.

Douby ( INC ) -- got a couple of wide open looks in the early second, and knocked them down, keeping Kevin on the bench for a spell there. With both Udrih and Ron back and in the starting lineup, and Cisco and Salmons coming off the bench clamoring for time, not sure where the minutes are going to come from for Quincy.
 
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Hawes ( B- ) -- looked better as a rebounder at the end of the first quarter, going up and snatching several in clear space (i.e. not as good as grabbing them in traffic, but at least looked aggressive going after the ones out by himself). Offense was all face up though. Chucked up another three in the 4th -- why? And the result was not my own preference of corporeal punishment, but a quick hook by Reggie and the reinsertion of Brad.

Reggie ( D+ ) -- So...the heat is on early for Reggie. For the moment let's take the optimistic stance that maybe now we get to see what he's made of rather than the just as reasonable jump off the bridge he's losing the team approach. Or... Anyway, decision to bench both Salmons and Cisco looked shaky. Now we obviously haven't been winning with those guys, so can't get too too upset, and the starting lineup tonight made conventional sense -- our best PG, best OG, best SF, best C and um...a 5th guy. But be that as it may, that lineup also created a badly unbalanced bench (top 3 guys are all natural OG types -- Salmons, Cisco, Douby -- and may have created immediate issues by tromping all over various egos. If it were not for those obvious issues I would possibly be generally satisfied with the new rotaion. Pending what happens with Justin, add him in, subtract Mikki, and its about the best we can do as far as both talent and developing youngsters. But if in the process you have grumbling unhappy players up and down the bench, you've got a problem, especially if you continue to lose. Either Reggie has to develop some touch, or Geoff has to finally help him out by making a move or moves of some sort. Reggie briefly experiented with both a Hawes/Miller frontline and a Hawes/Ron frontline in the final portion of the first quarter (as an aside, why is it that we try to post up every single turd on our frontline, from Brad to Mikki to Kenny to whoever, and yet we have yet to do so with the one guy who's a natural (Spenser)?). So we got to see a little of both Brad at the 4 and Ron at the 4, the two options people have been asking for. But after we were getting killed on the glass in the second half no matter who was on the floor, it was still a strange response by Reggie to then sub in Salmons for Mikki at the 5 minute mark and go smallball the rest of the way with the Miller/Ron frontline. Strange too that we lost. There was some odd play down the stretch as well, as we were down by 7 with 15 seconds to go and yet did not bomb threes, instead repeatedly hitting little stat-padding layups, fouling the Wolves, rinse, repeat. Never going to get anywhere that way, besides making Kevin, Beno and Cisco smile a little wider when they see their boxscores. But at the end of the eventful day the story has to come down to the spats with Kevin and Salmons. We've already had grumbling from Mikki and Reef. If Kenny was not hurt and got a DNP-CD today, the result there is inevitable as well. You've yanked guys in and out as punishment, accused others of being out of shape, and put down scrubs like Greene in the paper. But you can NOT fight with Kevin. And you can't have guys storming out of your locker room. Losing in the NBA is very stressful. If you start fighting with your main players, its gasoline, and the whole thing can go up. And Reggie should know that.
 
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I have been virtually assured by all of my professors that there is very little I could do to not end up with straight A's this semester.



Which hasn't a thing to do with basketball, but I figured there should be at least one 4.0 student in here. ;)
 
I have been virtually assured by all of my professors that there is very little I could do to not end up with straight A's this semester.

Which hasn't a thing to do with basketball, but I figured there should be at least one 4.0 student in here. ;)

CONGRATULATIONS!!! you know how hard that is to pull off in college? I've done it once in 3 years. 3.14 gpa for me. Like Mikki Moore I suck at math, can't add up to anything ;) (Ball has inverse relationship with Mikki's hands apparently).
 
Ron continues to see himself as the outside gunner and point guard and that is a problem in my eyes. It seems like he is trying to be Kobe. Other than the obvious problems with the turnovers, he has to be hard to play next to. He deliberately ignored a nice post up by Hawes and let loose with a three. It takes a great deal of effort to get a nice post up position. I wanted to see Hawes do what he does best but it seemed to be all about Ron. In a move that I don't think was unrelated, the next time down the court, Hawes launched an awful looking three of his own and immediately was jerked by Theus.

Maybe this stuff can be worked out but it seems to be a continuation of last year so I have my doubts. Ron might end up scoring 20-25 points per game but is that what is best for the team? Salmons and Martin can score and Udrih most likely can lead the team. PGs are wise enough to reward guys who have worked hard to get into a shooting position - the good ones are wise enough.

I used to like Ron but I see how disruptive he can be on the offensive end. I hope he is amenable to change or there is going to be more of a problem than just a snit between he and Bibby. The snit may involve a good proportion of the team.

And as usual, if my perceptions seem off, let me know. I have no problem with being wrong. Well ....... maybe. :)
 
If we were a contending team, I might want to keep Ron. But we're not contenders; we're not even pretenders. Artest desperately wants to win and he wants to be competitive. He wants his teammates to do as well as he thinks they should do. He wants a lot of things. Unfortunately, I just don't see things improving as long as he's there. We may not have been a better team without him, but we certainly seemed to have more fun...

Of course it's only one game but the feeling was different tonight. And the reports of the locker room problems really bother me.
 
Did embarass himself with some ridiculous screaming and yowling after a gorilla dunk +1. Obnoxious if a great player does it. Comical if Mikki Moore does it

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Of course it's only one game but the feeling was different tonight. And the reports of the locker room problems really bother me.
Don't like it either. If [big one] Kevin and Ron can't co-exist and Ron and Bibby can't co-exist, who is the problem here?

Ron might be a great guy, but on the court he just seems to think he is the one who has to do everything, if the team is going to win. I really think he believes it's all up to him to be the "superstar" savior. The reality is the team isn't good, but they don't have a chance in he** of winning any games, if they don't play as a team.
 
Don't like it either. If [big one] Kevin and Ron can't co-exist and Ron and Bibby can't co-exist, who is the problem here?

Ron might be a great guy, but on the court he just seems to think he is the one who has to do everything, if the team is going to win. I really think he believes it's all up to him to be the "superstar" savior. The reality is the team isn't good, but they don't have a chance in he** of winning any games, if they don't play as a team.

I agree. I think having Artest back out there gives Theus delusions of making the playoffs, and that just isn't practical IMHO. Develop the youth and help the guys like Kevin take their games to the next level. Don't try and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
 
Bricklayer said:
...But you can NOT fight with Kevin. And you can't have guys storming out of your locker room. Losing in the NBA is very stressful. If you start fighting with your main players, its gasoline, and the whole thing can go up. And Reggie should know that.

I sincerely hope it's just rookie coach jitters and that Reggie will turn this around and be the coach I'm still hoping he can be...

Otherwise it could all go horribly wrong very quickly... and I don't want to live through another season like last year.
 
This doesn't add up Bricklayer. Nearly everyone is getting a C or better, after a loss to the worst team in the NBA. Did you drink some polyanna soft-grader juice before you did these grades?
 
The grades aren't really based on the end result; they're more based on how that player performed, relative to how Brick thinks he's capable of performing... So, if he gave all these guys Cs based on how they played last night, he probably doesn't think that they're of playing very well in general...
 
This doesn't add up Bricklayer. Nearly everyone is getting a C or better, after a loss to the worst team in the NBA. Did you drink some polyanna soft-grader juice before you did these grades?


I fretted about that myself, and part of the problem of course is that this was one of those games whee the offense was actually pretty good -- we shot 50%, scored 100+. So everybody looks/feels pretty good statistically at the same time we are getting crunched by the subtle things we are not doing on defense/the glass.

The othe part of it is of course that we just aren't much good, and expectations are sinking so quickly that you go down the line and...:

1)Ron goes 17 and 6 in his first game back. That's pretty good. He also hit threes to keep us in it. You worry about his effect on Kevin or whatnot, but fact is we actually played one of our best offensive games this time out. So...shrug.
2) Mikki pretty clearly played his best game for us. He's just no good.
3) Brad maybe played his best offensive game for us, led us in rebounding...=got creamed on defense of course.
4) Kevin...well, scored 22 again, and added 6 assists. His game didn't feel good, but the quesstion is how low do you drop him?
5) Beno may have played one of his finer games of his career until the late flubs. If anything I felt like I was being too harsh on the guy this time out -- he's like a career 5ppg scorer or some such giving you 17 and 6 on 50%+ shooting this time out. How many better games will he play for us?
6) I think John was pouting, but did he do anything terrible (until post game)? Not really. Just did nothing good.
7) Cisco and Douby scored pretty well given the limited minutes
8) Hawes is still learnign, grabbed some boards

And so you go looking for who to pin this one, who sucked more than normal, and...the sad reality is that ost of our guys weren't really any worse than they normally have been. And it was those hard to put your finger on/lay the fault correctly lack of rebounding/defense that go us. Yanked down Kevin, Brad and Mikki's grades as is but...sigh. We just suck.
 
If our players are getting straight Cs then that means the Wolves' report card is probably filled with As and Bs.
I guess this means there is room to improvement for everybody and let's hope there is.
 
If our players are getting straight Cs then that means the Wolves' report card is probably filled with As and Bs.
I guess this means there is room to improvement for everybody and let's hope there is.
McCants was defo an A+
Jefferson was also an A performance.
Heck, even Walker had an A- performance in my opinion.

They just took it to us when it mattered most.
 
And so you go looking for who to pin this one, who sucked more than normal, and...the sad reality is that ost of our guys weren't really any worse than they normally have been. And it was those hard to put your finger on/lay the fault correctly lack of rebounding/defense that go us. Yanked down Kevin, Brad and Mikki's grades as is but...sigh. We just suck.

I thin you can point to the jump ball with 5 minutes to go when we had a 1 point lead. Mikki lost a jump to Ryan Gomes and then fouled Gomes when he did not block out. We then went 4 minutes and only had one Ron 3pt to show for it. Also during that 4 minutes the only rebound we got was off of Jefferson' loose ball foul. I used to think the Brad/SAR/Peja front line was the worst rebounding front line in NBA history but at least we had Bonzi.
 
I have been virtually assured by all of my professors that there is very little I could do to not end up with straight A's this semester.



Which hasn't a thing to do with basketball, but I figured there should be at least one 4.0 student in here. ;)

pride goeth before the fall
 
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