[Grades] Grades v. Wizards 11/28/2016

Who was the most pathetic?

  • Gay

    Votes: 13 37.1%
  • Collison

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Afflalo

    Votes: 4 11.4%
  • Casspi

    Votes: 4 11.4%
  • Barnes

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • Temple

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Joerger

    Votes: 11 31.4%

  • Total voters
    35
  • Poll closed .
#31
IMO it can go either way, if your getting value for Cousins/Gay and getting a top pick in this draft (tanking this year). Value for players that might leave and you would play the other youngsters (Skal/WCS/Malachi) minutes they wouldn't receive ordinarily

It can go either way which would be best in long run. Hopefully they do pull together as a Cousins fan
So what's the deal with our pick this year? I thought we were losing it to Chicago?
 
#32
I put this loss squarely on Dave Joerger. He continually talks about not ever having both Rudy and Boogie off the court at the same time and yet... Tonight it allowed the Wizards to get a lead they shouldn't have had.

One tiny corner of that square of loss has to go on the officials. I'm anxious to see the L2M report as DMC clearly should have had an +1 on his last regulation bucket.

Even I, the ultimate optimist, didn't feel real good about this loss.
I would almost guarantee that they will say that should have been a foul. The L2M report is extremely black and white on plays. I've seen them point out "no call incorrect" on travels or other minor violations and penalties that, in reality, would never be called in a million years in any competitive basketball game. The no-call against DeMarcus is very typically of NBA referees in that situation. They don't want to decide the game. My guess is had he missed the shot they would have come up with a late whistle and put him to the line. The problem with them not wanting to "decide the game" is that if you're the Kings you can argue that they probably did decide the game by not calling it.
 
#33
So what's the deal with our pick this year? I thought we were losing it to Chicago?
If it's Top 10, we get the worse pick between our 1st and Philly's 1st.

If we're wanting to hit reset and move on from Cousins, our 2017 pick is a huge incentive to move Cousins this season/at the trade deadline. If we wait to move him until the offseason, his presence will make us a better team this year and either cause us to lose our pick to Chicago altogether or it leaves us with #7-#10 rather than a top 5 pick. Jump starting the rebuild with a franchise level talent & a top 5 pick in next years' draft is a solid beginning vs. a franchise level talent & a #7-#10 pick (at best).

Cousins/Bogdanovic/Casspi for Wiggins/Dunn/Pekovic gives us that franchise level talent (Wiggins), another all star talent in the future (Dunn), & a top pick in next year's draft. Then you all of a sudden have Wiggins, Dunn, Labissiere, & 2017 1st who could all have all star potential on the same team. Not to mention you still have guys like Richardson, Cauley-Stein, & Papagiannis to fill in the gaps. You could also move guys like Gay, Collison, McLemore, & Koufos for more future assets/picks to reduce the talent bleed even further.
 
#34
If it's Top 10, we get the worse pick between our 1st and Philly's 1st.

If we're wanting to hit reset and move on from Cousins, our 2017 pick is a huge incentive to move Cousins this season/at the trade deadline. If we wait to move him until the offseason, his presence will make us a better team this year and either cause us to lose our pick to Chicago altogether or it leaves us with #7-#10 rather than a top 5 pick. Jump starting the rebuild with a franchise level talent & a top 5 pick in next years' draft is a solid beginning vs. a franchise level talent & a #7-#10 pick (at best).

Cousins/Bogdanovic/Casspi for Wiggins/Dunn/Pekovic gives us that franchise level talent (Wiggins), another all star talent in the future (Dunn), & a top pick in next year's draft. Then you all of a sudden have Wiggins, Dunn, Labissiere, & 2017 1st who could all have all star potential on the same team. Not to mention you still have guys like Richardson, Cauley-Stein, & Papagiannis to fill in the gaps. You could also move guys like Gay, Collison, McLemore, & Koufos for more future assets/picks to reduce the talent bleed even further.
That trade package for DeMarcus would be great but I just don't see it happening. Why would the T-Wolves give up a 21 year old stud wing for DeMarcus when they already have KAT? It just doesn't make sense. I guess if they get desperate enough?
 
#35
That trade package for DeMarcus would be great but I just don't see it happening. Why would the T-Wolves give up a 21 year old stud wing for DeMarcus when they already have KAT? It just doesn't make sense. I guess if they get desperate enough?
Well despite his flashy "simple stats," Wiggins play has not been contributing to winning all that much. Cousins on the other hand is elite in this category.

I have a hard time seeing how KAT prevents them from wanting Cousins. Both can faceup, both can score in the post, both can knock down 3s at a high rate, both can pass, both can handle the ball, both can rebound, and both can protect the rim & defend. They would rival the best frontcourt the NBA has ever seen. How are teams going to stop Cousins & Towns defensively? If you don't have two excellent defenders at PF & C with size & athleticism, you are essentially screwed (and you still might be screwed even if a team has these excellent defenders). And the fact that both are shooting north of 35% from 3 suggests that both could provide great spacing for one another. They would literally be the anti smallball and actually be able to punish smallball lineups way more than Randolph & Gasol ever could. Not to mention they'd still have LaVine & Bogdanovic as knock down shooters on the wings (and LaVine continues to flash great potential as another threat on the perimeter). They'd also still have Rubio as a solid PG & a lot of cap space next year to go out and sign a guy like Porter or Hayward as the SF of the future. Rubio, LaVine, Porter/Hayward, Towns, & Cousins would be pretty darn talented & formidable.

Lastly, Minnesota has Thibs who Cousins thoroughly respects based off his time in international play. It would be hard to see Cousins clashing with him considering Cousins tends to align with defense first coaches. Considering the talent level & the coach, I would think Minnesota would be fairly confident in their efforts to resign him.

EDIT: Thinking about it some more, how would that duo stack up against Golden State? Will Draymond, Durant, & Pachulia be able to contain them without picking up fouls? Or will they have to result to double & triple teams with shooters around them to knock down the open shots. Would the Spurs bigs (Aldridge, Gasol, & Dedmon) be able to stop them without fouling? I don't think so. Would Love & T. Thompson be able to stop them? Again, highly unlikely. Getting these small lineups into foul trouble is there key to takeaway the advantage a Durant would have when Towns is guarding him (for example) on the other end. Getting the other team in foul trouble will not only be their meal ticket, but it will also muck up the game for these chucking teams. It's hard to get in a rhythm if the other team continues to stop the game and shoot free throws.
 
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dude12

Hall of Famer
#38
I put this loss squarely on Dave Joerger. He continually talks about not ever having both Rudy and Boogie off the court at the same time and yet... Tonight it allowed the Wizards to get a lead they shouldn't have had.

One tiny corner of that square of loss has to go on the officials. I'm anxious to see the L2M report as DMC clearly should have had an +1 on his last regulation bucket.

Even I, the ultimate optimist, didn't feel real good about this loss.
I'll put this loss on the players. Joerger used about the same rotation as he did against Brooklyn and that worked out ok. Besides Cousins, which player actually played well? I mean most weren't even solid.
 
S

sactownfan

Guest
#41
To be fair, he probably actually played Omri for too many minutes in this game.
Yeah that's kinda my point. He burns out Matt Barnes, Affalo, and others constantly . Barnes is not a 30 min a game dude anymore. He would probably be spectacular in about 20 minutes.

But this coach has no idea how to distribute minutes or set rotations.
 
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dude12

Hall of Famer
#42
Yeah that's kinda my point. He burns out Matt Barnes, Affalo, and others constant. Barnes is not a 30 min a game dude anymore. He would probably be spectacular in about 20 minutes.

But this coach has no idea how to distribute minutes or set rotations.
Barnes played only 19 minutes the previous night
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#43
When you have guys with dead legs (missing 3s and FT), it's time to extend the bench more. I'd have given McClemore some minutes and maybe Tollliver. Barnes and Affalo were not able to get it done.
Even if they don't have dead legs, the Kings can't shoot the ball from deep consistently. The dead leg excuse shouldn't be applicable here IMO, every team in the league goes through it, the relevant teams find a way to win back to backs.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#44
Yeah that's kinda my point. He burns out Matt Barnes, Affalo, and others constant. Barnes is not a 30 min a game dude anymore. He would probably be spectacular in about 20 minutes.

But this coach has no idea how to distribute minutes or set rotations.
It must be the quality of product that Vlade gave him to work with. When does he burn out Afflalo? He played 20 minutes yesterday, Barnes played 26 minutes, he even gave 14 minutes to Trill, 15 minutes to Casspi, 28 to Temple, 24 to Lawson...looks like good minute distribution to me. Gay and Cousins played the most minutes, as they always do with 40 and 38...what more do you want? Ben to play? Tolliver?
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#46
To be fair, he probably actually played Omri for too many minutes in this game.
15 minutes of Shaqtin' a fool candidate is too much, 8-10 minutes is enough. He is all of a sudden getting minutes due to the necessity to showcase himself for a trade, which hopefully is in the works.
 
#47
Well despite his flashy "simple stats," Wiggins play has not been contributing to winning all that much. Cousins on the other hand is elite in this category.

I have a hard time seeing how KAT prevents them from wanting Cousins. Both can faceup, both can score in the post, both can knock down 3s at a high rate, both can pass, both can handle the ball, both can rebound, and both can protect the rim & defend. They would rival the best frontcourt the NBA has ever seen. How are teams going to stop Cousins & Towns defensively? If you don't have two excellent defenders at PF & C with size & athleticism, you are essentially screwed (and you still might be screwed even if a team has these excellent defenders). And the fact that both are shooting north of 35% from 3 suggests that both could provide great spacing for one another. They would literally be the anti smallball and actually be able to punish smallball lineups way more than Randolph & Gasol ever could. Not to mention they'd still have LaVine & Bogdanovic as knock down shooters on the wings (and LaVine continues to flash great potential as another threat on the perimeter). They'd also still have Rubio as a solid PG & a lot of cap space next year to go out and sign a guy like Porter or Hayward as the SF of the future. Rubio, LaVine, Porter/Hayward, Towns, & Cousins would be pretty darn talented & formidable.

Lastly, Minnesota has Thibs who Cousins thoroughly respects based off his time in international play. It would be hard to see Cousins clashing with him considering Cousins tends to align with defense first coaches. Considering the talent level & the coach, I would think Minnesota would be fairly confident in their efforts to resign him.

EDIT: Thinking about it some more, how would that duo stack up against Golden State? Will Draymond, Durant, & Pachulia be able to contain them without picking up fouls? Or will they have to result to double & triple teams with shooters around them to knock down the open shots. Would the Spurs bigs (Aldridge, Gasol, & Dedmon) be able to stop them without fouling? I don't think so. Would Love & T. Thompson be able to stop them? Again, highly unlikely. Getting these small lineups into foul trouble is there key to takeaway the advantage a Durant would have when Towns is guarding him (for example) on the other end. Getting the other team in foul trouble will not only be their meal ticket, but it will also muck up the game for these chucking teams. It's hard to get in a rhythm if the other team continues to stop the game and shoot free throws.
Minnesota wouldn't give up 5 years left of a 21yearold Wiggins for a 1 year rental of a 26yearold Cousins.

Let alone give up Dunn too....

Timberwolves are a young rebuilding team. They have no real need for DeMarcus Cousins. They will only continue to get better and grow together. No reason to throw a guy like DeMarcus in, and potentially have him leave.

Offense is not their problem anyways. They do a great job at scoring.
 
S

sactownfan

Guest
#51
I'm glad someone brought it up.
Im glad u brought up that totally lame attempt of a point. He's avg about 26 mins a game. Including ur 19 min game. So yeah probably a bit much for him.

Another critical thing you totally whiffed on was HOW MANY MINS DOES THE COACH RUN BARNES STRAIGHT!!! Not to observant are you guy?

Barnes stretches go on too long also. Same with affalo who btw is also at 26 mins a game... BTW the difference between 26 and 30 is 4 WHOLE mins. And that's 240 seconds!!!! Wow...

So glad u brought that up. So I could help u out
 
#54
I only saw the fourth quarter, so you ignore these comments. The Kings have learned to compete. That is huge in my book as a fan. Lawson is playing better.
There are going to be nights when nobody can really get the ball in the hole. That is when you rely on defense and rebounding and layups. That's it for being positive.

The only thing that really bothered me last night was watching Cousins throwing some elbows and flying fists. He struggles with impulse control and has now directed his aggression towards other players instead of the refs. It is mostly in the fourth quarter when they are losing.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#55
Im glad u brought up that totally lame attempt of a point. He's avg about 26 mins a game. Including ur 19 min game. So yeah probably a bit much for him.

Another critical thing you totally whiffed on was HOW MANY MINS DOES THE COACH RUN BARNES STRAIGHT!!! Not to observant are you guy?

Barnes stretches go on too long also. Same with affalo who btw is also at 26 mins a game... BTW the difference between 26 and 30 is 4 WHOLE mins. And that's 240 seconds!!!! Wow...

So glad u brought that up. So I could help u out
Hmm...so let's take a look then.

Matt Barnes, prior to coming here played for the Grizzlies and Clippers, yes? Okay, first season with the Clippers he played 25 minutes a game, second season he played 27 minutes a game, third season he played 29 minutes a game...see a trend here?

Last season with Memphis, he played 28 minutes a game. This season he is playing 25 minutes a game, nearly 26...it's nothing different than the previous years. I suppose Doc Rivers mismanaged his minutes too? His minutes have been consistent the last 4-5 seasons, this is nothing new here.

Afflalo is getting paid 24 million, so you would think he would average roughly 25-30 minutes a game since he was supposed to fill a void. Obviously he isn't a good fit with this squad so his minutes might go down a bit.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#58
Also just to be crystal clear here he's avg 25.7 mins... so I'm rounding up by 0.3 and ur really stretching it by 0.7.... since every second counts here...
okay, 26 minutes....sorry. Having said that, what's his average minutes played a game been the last 5 seasons? Wanna take a look?
 
#59
Well despite his flashy "simple stats," Wiggins play has not been contributing to winning all that much. Cousins on the other hand is elite in this category.

I have a hard time seeing how KAT prevents them from wanting Cousins. Both can faceup, both can score in the post, both can knock down 3s at a high rate, both can pass, both can handle the ball, both can rebound, and both can protect the rim & defend. They would rival the best frontcourt the NBA has ever seen. How are teams going to stop Cousins & Towns defensively? If you don't have two excellent defenders at PF & C with size & athleticism, you are essentially screwed (and you still might be screwed even if a team has these excellent defenders). And the fact that both are shooting north of 35% from 3 suggests that both could provide great spacing for one another. They would literally be the anti smallball and actually be able to punish smallball lineups way more than Randolph & Gasol ever could. Not to mention they'd still have LaVine & Bogdanovic as knock down shooters on the wings (and LaVine continues to flash great potential as another threat on the perimeter). They'd also still have Rubio as a solid PG & a lot of cap space next year to go out and sign a guy like Porter or Hayward as the SF of the future. Rubio, LaVine, Porter/Hayward, Towns, & Cousins would be pretty darn talented & formidable.

Lastly, Minnesota has Thibs who Cousins thoroughly respects based off his time in international play. It would be hard to see Cousins clashing with him considering Cousins tends to align with defense first coaches. Considering the talent level & the coach, I would think Minnesota would be fairly confident in their efforts to resign him.

EDIT: Thinking about it some more, how would that duo stack up against Golden State? Will Draymond, Durant, & Pachulia be able to contain them without picking up fouls? Or will they have to result to double & triple teams with shooters around them to knock down the open shots. Would the Spurs bigs (Aldridge, Gasol, & Dedmon) be able to stop them without fouling? I don't think so. Would Love & T. Thompson be able to stop them? Again, highly unlikely. Getting these small lineups into foul trouble is there key to takeaway the advantage a Durant would have when Towns is guarding him (for example) on the other end. Getting the other team in foul trouble will not only be their meal ticket, but it will also muck up the game for these chucking teams. It's hard to get in a rhythm if the other team continues to stop the game and shoot free throws.
Don't think the Wolves do it.

Has to be a team that
-really believes he will stay after next year
-is one step away now (Wolves looking like their getting a good pick this year)
-has a strong need at center

With Cousins being able to opt out after next season, don't see it
 
S

sactownfan

Guest
#60
Hmm...so let's take a look then.

Matt Barnes, prior to coming here played for the Grizzlies and Clippers, yes? Okay, first season with the Clippers he played 25 minutes a game, second season he played 27 minutes a game, third season he played 29 minutes a game...see a trend here?

Last season with Memphis, he played 28 minutes a game. This season he is playing 25 minutes a game, nearly 26...it's nothing different than the previous years. I suppose Doc Rivers mismanaged his minutes too? His minutes have been consistent the last 4-5 seasons, this is nothing new here.

Afflalo is getting paid 24 million, so you would think he would average roughly 25-30 minutes a game since he was supposed to fill a void. Obviously he isn't a good fit with this squad so his minutes might go down a bit.
And EVERY YEAR HE KEEPS GETTING YOUNGER!!!! Speaking of numbers that don't matter age is now irrelevant ! Not to mention One of the reasons he had to play so many minutes last year is that he was on a completely decimated awful team they almost didn't make the playoffs.

He was literally dying down the stretch his statistics fell through the floor the last half or a quarter of the season apparently you don't follow basketball