[Grades] Grades v. Warriors 4/10/11

Best Kings Player This Game?

  • DeMarcus Cousins

    Votes: 4 10.8%
  • Samuel Dalembert

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Marcus Thornton

    Votes: 22 59.5%
  • Beno Udrih

    Votes: 5 13.5%
  • Jason Thompson

    Votes: 6 16.2%
  • Donte Greene

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    37

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
One monster-sized frontline? Check.

One guy to hit the clutch shots in the end? Check.

And that's all it took to make a game where we could not shoot straight and turned the ball over 21 times go our way.


Official Boxscore


Garcia ( C- ) -- scared the Warriors so little that they threw little Stephen Curry out there against him on defense. Cisco obligingly hit his first jumper and more importantly drew several fouls, but there is really nothing in his game to particularly allow him to take advantage of such a matchup. Kept on missing his long bombs, and with his normal lack of boardwork and inability to slow Dorell Wright, made little argument for himself to continue to get minutes as the game wore on.

Cousins ( B- ) -- one of those interesting fill every corner of the stat sheet games for DeMarcus, and of course wiht him that means EVERY corner, even the dank cobweb filled ones you don't ant filled. Got off to the good little start, stealing the ball away on the opening tip, and later tipping in a Reke miss. Rebounding as well, and smoothly stroking jumpers. Back in and immediately drove the lane and set Beno up for a corner three. Several bad turnvoers in the third gave the Warriors a big push out to their lead. But teamed with Daly to dominate inside in the early 4th as we began our own push to get back into it. Nice strong hands inside, and knocked a big one away at the 3:30 mark to start a break that put us up 4. But bumbled into back to back bad bad turnovers sandwiched arounf the 2:00 mark, and fouled out a few seconds later at the 1:00 mark when he again tried to take a charge -- falling back into bad habits with how many charges he was taking tonight. But Ellis got injured on that play, and we got to insert Admunsen to take the FTs and he only split the pair. Another efficient shooting 15pts 13reb nigth, with 5 assists to grease our offense, 7 turnovers to grease the offense, and 6 gouls to grease the refs whistles. DeMarcus was a one stop stat shopping mart.

Dalembert ( C+ ) -- his first hoop came of a beautiful passing sequence Cousins to Thornton to Reke to Daly, and +1 FT. And yet on the night really struggled for some reason to finish inside despite the huge size advantage. And after getting his butt handed to him by Dalembert inside the last time out, David Lee, who apparently is a quick study, tonight proved to be one of those jumpshooting PFs against which Daly's length was of limited use defensively. That size and legnth though finally did start beombing a major factor late in the game. Came up with several offensive rebounds and a putback down the stretch of the third as we began our glass domination routine again, and teamed with Cousins to crush the Warriors inside in the early 4th as we made our push to tie the game back up and turn it into another dogfight down the stretch. Not a banner game for either of our bigs, but you could feel the crunch as our size overwhelemd the Warriors inside anyway.

Thornton ( B- ) -- if you got toi court you can argue your case, sometimes for weeks. You call witnesses, they call witnesses. You call experts, they call experts. But no matter how you've done during the trial, at the end you get one last chance to change the debate, to underline your strengths, or to try to make them forget about your blunders in a closing argument. Marcus apparently watches a lot of legal shows. The narrative tonight is all aobut hos Marcus saved us, how great he played etc. And yet for most of this night he pretty much sucked. But by stepping up to deliver a helluva closing argument, he made everybody forget all about that. Was off to another quiet offensive start, and I think the lack of confidence in his jumper was causing him to repeatedly overpenetrate again, and again and again get denies around the rim. Not getting it done defensively against Curry either, and was just flat out losing him. Talks a good defensive game, seems williing, but somehow its just not there yet and he always seems to be truning his head. Did a much better job running the end of the first quarter play, this time taking the jumper and only leaving 0.7secs -- textbook. Several bad TOs late in the half, wiht the ball just falling right out of his hand on one of them. Lost Curry again to start the 2nd half, and got the lead changing three drained in his face. This was the narrative until late int he game -- I had him sitting at a low C/D range until the 2 minute mark. And then all of a sudden, voila! Closing argument. After back to back Cousins TOs, stepped up and hit a long jumper to give us a little cushionm. Then drew a foul, and drained them. And finally closed things out with a step back jumper to put us back up 4 with 13 seconds to go. The grades aren't as forgiving as people's memories -- the whole game counts. But even they can't ignore a great closing argument.

Evans ( C- ) -- ok, 1) this was not Reke's night. Its possible some of that may have been injury related as he rolled his ankle in the early going and may have lost explosiveness, but he wasn't obviously limping so who knows. 2) Reke matched up on Monta Ellia, the league's 8th leading scorer at 24.1, and Ellis wasn't able to get ANYTHING going against him. But again...how much of that was Reke is hard to tell. Ellis just looked out of it. In a fog, and that was long before he collided with Cousins late in the game and truly did end up in a concussion related fog. For most of the game Reke's only contribution was his ability to draw fouls on repeated aggressive attacks of the rim. The jumpers were all short, and it was one of those everything rolls off inside nights. Picked up two quick fouls in the early 3rd, and had to sit with 4, and maybe the little break helped. When he returned he began to show up on the glass, and after we went to the three guard late finally broke through with a spectacular swooper in the mid 4th as we made our move. It was of course Thornton who carried us down the stretch, but it was Reke who got it started when he canned a huge three at the 3:40 mark to give us back the lead, which we never relinquished. Wish I knew how to interpret the Ellis struggles for this grade. As is, I am only going to factor them in slightly -- something just seemed off.


Bench

Thompson ( B+ ) -- looked slouggish on the boards early, but offensively this was about as efficeint as he gets. Used his size advantage for several nice quick post turnarounds inside, and was settled on his jumpers. Was having to guard perimeter people the other way and made several mistakes, including forgetting about VladRad at the three point line late in the half, wiht predictable results. Began really making up for lost time on the glass in the third as our three bigs combined for 35 rebounds between them.

Jackson ( INC ) -- missed a short open jumper late in the first, got a hoop racing out on the break for his only score

Udrih ( B ) -- actually got off to a ragged start to this one, not keeping Lin in front of him and getting stripped, blocked from behind, and in general not getting it done. But after a steadying timeout, canned back to back threes form Cousins and Evans and poked away a ball from Ellis and took it all the way the other way for the layup. In quickly in the 3rd with Evans in foul trouble and qucikly pushed the ball ahead to Thornotn on the break. Couple of little jumpers as well, and was a steady offensive presence. But his defense on Ciurry was as bad as Thornton's had been. Helped keep the ball moving in the three guard in the 4th, and hit a streaking Thornton with a perfect lead pass after Cousins knocked a ball away inside, giving us a 4pt lead with 3:20 to go.

Greene ( B ) -- going to be one of the more interesting cases this summer. Some guys I consider fairly obvious. But Donte has made an argument for himself this last month, and has the x-factor of prime cheerleader/chemsitry guy. Tonight he contributed again, draining two corner threes to begin the 2nd. But then made a defensive mistake, leaving Dorell Wright out at the 3pt line and warthing him get one of those threes back. Showed the difference between himself and Garcia when the Warriors tried to stick Ellis on him, and he just went into the post and used his power to finish over him. Gave us energy in his secodn stint, but borderline out of control. Came up with an athletic tip follow after a bad drive, but gave way to the three guard for the stretch run.
 
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Thorton's dagger was legit... But big props to JT and Beno, easily our most solid players on the night. Thompson is really turning into a great 3rd big for us.
 
Thorton's dagger was legit... But big props to JT and Beno, easily our most solid players on the night. Thompson is really turning into a great 3rd big for us.

ya i noticed how beno was trying to keep the ball moving throughout the game.
 
While Thornton was the man down the stretch, if I had to choose a player of the game it would be JT. I mean all his shots were good shots and he just did what a third big off the bench was supposed to do, hustle, rebound and score when given the opportunity. I really love what JT brings to this team. If he can continue to play under control, his resigning will be just as important as Dalembert's. As you can all see, size is what wins championships these days and LA/Utah/Bulls have plenty of it so we need to keep our core of bigs and if Hassan can come along and block some shots, OMG!
 
Gosh, does it feel good when the Kings win! The disappointments of the last couple of season almost make you forget what it feels like!

YAY TEAM! :D
 
ya i noticed how beno was trying to keep the ball moving throughout the game.

Yep, Beno tries and is pretty good at that. Cousins tries and does it well sometimes and turns it over a lot. Evans tries sometimes but he is not good at it. Keep on practicing and trying, you all will get better.
 
Some observations from the game:

1) JT has been doing much better of late - I'll give him props for that, and I'm a harsh critic of him.
Having said that, he doesn't create ANY plays for the team - he scores garbage points, off of other people's plays which leave him sparsely-defended easy put backs many times. These ARE crucial points/plays, don't get me wrong - let's just not anoint the guy as a team leader because of some nice stats of late.
BTW - anyone big who's played the game - could you help me understand what the purpose is of the bad habit big men have of catching the ball next to the hoop, then needlessly dribbling the ball once, then going up for the shot? Almost every time it's done by ANYone in the league, it leads to the turnover. JT still has this habit, 3 years in - is it a particularly difficult habit to break, or something?

2) Tyreke is not (currently) the player Stephan Curry is RIGHT NOW.
I don't want to hear "stats" this, or "2-way player" that - which guy would you want with the ball in your hands with the game on the line?
Tyreke is going to have to improve in his 3rd year just to keep up with Curry, and IMO that's not even arguable anymore.

3) Here's the comparison of 2 plays:
Tyreke was doing nothing but hovering at the 3-pt line (@ 10:28 in the 3rd IIRC) when DMC drove, leading to a wide open pass to Tyreke who was doing nothing on the play. He backed up and stepped out of bounds while taking the wide-open shot.
Curry (at least 2 times) penetrated along the baseline, drove under the basket, and flipped a BLIND laser-pass behind him right to a wide-open teammate. He COULD NOT have seen him - he had to just know where his teammate would be.
The entire Kings team lacks this ability to know where anyone else will be unless they can sight them with their own eyes and have reaction time to get it to them, and hope the teammate doesn't move in the meantime.

Why can't the Kings do what other teams are doing?

4) It sure is nice to see the Kings win a game in crunch time (thanks to Thornton's 2 buckets), and nice to see them win 8 out of 10, even if it costs them a better pick (?), but it is unwise to ignore the needs for improvement and comparisons to other teams.
 
Some observations from the game:

1) JT has been doing much better of late - I'll give him props for that, and I'm a harsh critic of him.
Having said that, he doesn't create ANY plays for the team - he scores garbage points, off of other people's plays which leave him sparsely-defended easy put backs many times. These ARE crucial points/plays, don't get me wrong - let's just not anoint the guy as a team leader because of some nice stats of late.
BTW - anyone big who's played the game - could you help me understand what the purpose is of the bad habit big men have of catching the ball next to the hoop, then needlessly dribbling the ball once, then going up for the shot? Almost every time it's done by ANYone in the league, it leads to the turnover. JT still has this habit, 3 years in - is it a particularly difficult habit to break, or something?

2) Tyreke is not (currently) the player Stephan Curry is RIGHT NOW.
I don't want to hear "stats" this, or "2-way player" that - which guy would you want with the ball in your hands with the game on the line?
Tyreke is going to have to improve in his 3rd year just to keep up with Curry, and IMO that's not even arguable anymore.

3) Here's the comparison of 2 plays:
Tyreke was doing nothing but hovering at the 3-pt line (@ 10:28 in the 3rd IIRC) when DMC drove, leading to a wide open pass to Tyreke who was doing nothing on the play. He backed up and stepped out of bounds while taking the wide-open shot.
Curry (at least 2 times) penetrated along the baseline, drove under the basket, and flipped a BLIND laser-pass behind him right to a wide-open teammate. He COULD NOT have seen him - he had to just know where his teammate would be.
The entire Kings team lacks this ability to know where anyone else will be unless they can sight them with their own eyes and have reaction time to get it to them, and hope the teammate doesn't move in the meantime.

Why can't the Kings do what other teams are doing?

4) It sure is nice to see the Kings win a game in crunch time (thanks to Thornton's 2 buckets), and nice to see them win 8 out of 10, even if it costs them a better pick (?), but it is unwise to ignore the needs for improvement and comparisons to other teams.

Not to let the facts get in the way of your argument or anything but that was Marcus.

And I suppose we're just going to ignore the fact that Curry was the guy who was "guarding" Marcus when he entered terminator mode?
 
Not to let the facts get in the way of your argument or anything but that was Marcus.

And I suppose we're just going to ignore the fact that Curry was the guy who was "guarding" Marcus when he entered terminator mode?


No it was Tyreke, go check it. I'm afraid I have to agree - Tyreke is rather useless without the ball in his hands on offense and tends to just camp at the 3 point line. He still hasn't learned to play within the flow of the game, and right now seems like either one of the most selfish players or one of the most stupid players. He KNOWS his jumpshot is horrible, yet instead of moving the ball around and getting people good shots he decides to keep taking fadeaway jumpshots, and usually at the wrong time, breaking momentum or just digging us into a bigger hole. He KNOWS his 3 point shot is friggin 29%, but doesn't make the extra pass to a better shooter. I really don't know what to say about that.

Look, when Tyreke first returned we were playing beautifully, and he was getting what 7 or more assists a game? You can tell that now he's looking for his own shot more, and it may just be coincidence but our assist numbers are down, the ball movement is worse and we're turning the ball over a lot more.

Watch the game and you'll see how often Tyreke misses open guys basically screaming for the ball. It's ok when he actually makes his layups, but when he's 1-9 at one point and then goes on to be 3-13 you have to question his shot selection.

A note to our bigs (particularly Sammy D): When you get an offensive rebound, it isn't a rule that you have to keep trying to get a shot up. You can actually trust your team's offense and kick it out to your guard to reset. And for the rest of the guys: we're 25th in the league for 3pt% as a team for a reason. We're also big for a reason. Stop chucking 3s and start getting more points in the paint, please.
 
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No it was Tyreke, go check it. I'm afraid I have to agree -
Tyreke is rather useless without the ball in his hands on offense and tends to just camp at the 3 point line. He still hasn't learned to play within the flow of the game,
Rather harsh assessment but I agree it is more true than not.

Add to that - with the ball in his hands, and take away his scoring baskets, he is worse than useless, he makes poor or poorly timed passes too often.

This is of particular concern because Tyreke is such a talented scorer who will get better and better, AND he is a very talented defensive player, guarding, blocking, stealing, rebounding.

Tyreke has a very tough road ahead to improve in those areas but he is young.
 
The ony thing I want to mention about Tyreke is that he plays lazy a lot of the time. I agree that he isn't effective at all without the ball and he stands around way too much. Part of it his his own mindset and the other part is that Westphal just lets him do whatever he wants out there and if you don't get that mindset out of his head early, who knows if it ever will. You see glimpses of him playing hard, hustling and moving around. Then you see this Reke. I don't want to say he's a Tracy McGrady type of lazy player, drags his feet, chews his gum like he doesn't care about anything. Because if that's the case, well we aren't going to get very far. I'm glad that we have the Thunder tonight, we will see how hard they play and how together they play. They are younger than us so that's not an excuse to use that we can't figure out something by next season.
 
They are younger than us so that's not an excuse to use that we can't figure out something by next season.

While their average age is pretty much a wash (24.95 vs. 25.29 from earlier data), you are correct on the assessment that they are further ahead on the curve by about one year. I believe we hold the advantage over the Thunder in the post, but their combo of Westbrook/Durant is tough for any team in the league to manage. I would try to slow them down and beat them up. We have the size for that.
 
...Wish I knew how to interpret the Ellis struggles for this grade. As is, I am only going to factor them in slightly -- something just seemed off.

I'm in the Bay so I get the W's broadcast. They said Ellis had a leg injury that was causing him problems way before he got knocked down. Ellis wasn't scoring because he wasn't himself, not because of Reke's D.
 
Some observations from the game:



2) Tyreke is not (currently) the player Stephan Curry is RIGHT NOW.
I don't want to hear "stats" this, or "2-way player" that - which guy would you want with the ball in your hands with the game on the line?
Tyreke is going to have to improve in his 3rd year just to keep up with Curry, and IMO that's not even arguable anymore.

3) Here's the comparison of 2 plays:
Tyreke was doing nothing but hovering at the 3-pt line (@ 10:28 in the 3rd IIRC) when DMC drove, leading to a wide open pass to Tyreke who was doing nothing on the play. He backed up and stepped out of bounds while taking the wide-open shot.
Curry (at least 2 times) penetrated along the baseline, drove under the basket, and flipped a BLIND laser-pass behind him right to a wide-open teammate. He COULD NOT have seen him - he had to just know where his teammate would be.
The entire Kings team lacks this ability to know where anyone else will be unless they can sight them with their own eyes and have reaction time to get it to them, and hope the teammate doesn't move in the meantime.

I don't feel the need to rip one player in order to build the other up, as I like Curry a lot. However, this is very selective memory. Curry air balled a shot, forced 2 other contested 3s that were well short and had 2-3 turnovers in the final 3 minutes of the game. He hit one mid range jumper and then hit a meaningless, unguarded 3 at the buzzer. Disregarding the unguarded 3 since the game was over at that point, his stats in the last 3 minutes were approximatley 1-4, 2 points, 2 assists, and 2 TOs. So even forgetting his attrocious D, it wasn't exactly like he carried his team offensively. In fact, if Reke had a game where he was 1-4 with 2 assists and 2 TOs in the clutch and we lost, he would no doubt be getting ripped for it here.
 
In fact, if Reke had a game where he was 1-4 with 2 assists and 2 TOs in the clutch and we lost, he would no doubt be getting ripped for it here.

That looks a lot like every Cousins stat line in the last few minutes of every game this year.
 
While their average age is pretty much a wash (24.95 vs. 25.29 from earlier data), you are correct on the assessment that they are further ahead on the curve by about one year. I believe we hold the advantage over the Thunder in the post, but their combo of Westbrook/Durant is tough for any team in the league to manage. I would try to slow them down and beat them up. We have the size for that.

Well they have plenty of big men themselves with Ibaka, Perkins, Muhammed, Durant is tall himself, Westbrook is a pretty big PG, Sefolosha is long and tall so I don't know if we have that much of an advantage size wise. Problem with beating them up is we have nobody that's willing to do that besides Cousins and JT to an extent. But we just don't have that one perimeter player that will make the opposition work for their points and give them nothing easy. Now I mentioned perimeter because Cousins will bang with anybody and while he might be a poor defender he is tough. If Tyreke could stop his lazy antics and decide to maybe try to be our defensive stopper then that would do wonders.
 
Some observations from the game:

1) JT has been doing much better of late - I'll give him props for that, and I'm a harsh critic of him.
Having said that, he doesn't create ANY plays for the team - he scores garbage points, off of other people's plays which leave him sparsely-defended easy put backs many times. These ARE crucial points/plays, don't get me wrong - let's just not anoint the guy as a team leader because of some nice stats of late.
BTW - anyone big who's played the game - could you help me understand what the purpose is of the bad habit big men have of catching the ball next to the hoop, then needlessly dribbling the ball once, then going up for the shot? Almost every time it's done by ANYone in the league, it leads to the turnover. JT still has this habit, 3 years in - is it a particularly difficult habit to break, or something?

2) Tyreke is not (currently) the player Stephan Curry is RIGHT NOW.
I don't want to hear "stats" this, or "2-way player" that - which guy would you want with the ball in your hands with the game on the line?
Tyreke is going to have to improve in his 3rd year just to keep up with Curry, and IMO that's not even arguable anymore.

3) Here's the comparison of 2 plays:
Tyreke was doing nothing but hovering at the 3-pt line (@ 10:28 in the 3rd IIRC) when DMC drove, leading to a wide open pass to Tyreke who was doing nothing on the play. He backed up and stepped out of bounds while taking the wide-open shot.
Curry (at least 2 times) penetrated along the baseline, drove under the basket, and flipped a BLIND laser-pass behind him right to a wide-open teammate. He COULD NOT have seen him - he had to just know where his teammate would be.
The entire Kings team lacks this ability to know where anyone else will be unless they can sight them with their own eyes and have reaction time to get it to them, and hope the teammate doesn't move in the meantime.

Why can't the Kings do what other teams are doing?

4) It sure is nice to see the Kings win a game in crunch time (thanks to Thornton's 2 buckets), and nice to see them win 8 out of 10, even if it costs them a better pick (?), but it is unwise to ignore the needs for improvement and comparisons to other teams.

I'm not sure I get number 4. Who said they're ignoring the need for improvement? And I'm not sure what you mean by comparisons to other teams. Just about everyone on this fourm has compared the Kings to one team or another. Not sure it accomplishes anything other than to entertain us.

I'm cutting Tyreke some slack because of his injuries this year. I don't really compare Tyreke to Curry because they're two entirely different players. Curry can do things that Tyreke can't. And Tyreke can do things Curry can't. So to my mind its apples and oranges. Both players when healthy are effective, and no doubt, both players have things they need to work on.

As far as JT goes. I don't believe anyone tried to anoint him team leader. And when I last looked, he was a PF/C. Not a PG who is suspossed to create plays for others. JT is doing exactly what he's suspossed to do. And of late, he's been doing it well. You know, it is OK to give a compliment when its deserved without giving the player a backhanded slap.
 
I'm not sure I get number 4. Who said they're ignoring the need for improvement?

I think #4 was more along the lines of: "It's nice that we're winning games, even though it may hurt us in the draft. It is unwise to 'tank' when your team is improving."
 
I think #4 was more along the lines of: "It's nice that we're winning games, even though it may hurt us in the draft. It is unwise to 'tank' when your team is improving."

While I think this is completely accurate, the poster has ignored the fact that OKC in Durants second year played very similarly, winning games and still ended up with the #2 (James Harden) pick.
 
I think #4 was more along the lines of: "It's nice that we're winning games, even though it may hurt us in the draft. It is unwise to 'tank' when your team is improving."

I understood that part. I'm just not sure how you get from that to, Ignoring the need for improvement. I guess I better brush up on my comprehension skills.
 
Actually, #4 was simply me trying to make it clear that I am enjoying the victories when they come, even if I predict they will end up hurting their draft choice (and TRADE) flexibility.

But don't let that stop anyone from hyper-focusing on the exact wording of my last (throw-away and attempting-conciliatory) observation.
 
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