If JT is in the same mold as Webb then KMart is the same mold as Kobe. How the hell does that work. JT is nowhere near Webb, and their games are nothing alike. Webb was more athletic, had a sweet shooting stroke, could play power or finesse. JT is hyper active, so far has not proven to be extremely coordinated and gets by on effort and god given physical talent. The skills are apparent, but him and Webb are not the same player. Not even close. I love JT as a player, and he will be his own self. You can see he has that passing ability that not many bigs have, but Webb was almost a pg in the way he distributed.
Grades v. Thunder 11/10/09
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K
JT is very athletic, he has soft hands, JT has a nice jumper and yes, he is still learning but his game is very similar to Webbs. Like Webb, he can grab a rebound and take it coast to coast, a lot of Reke's passes to him in traffic are actually caught (unlike lets say Mikki Moore), JT can step out and hit face up elbow jumpers (where his stroke actually looks better than Webbs, especially at the FT line), JT has a knack for making good passes.
JT's game is very similar to Webbs, Webb ALWAYS thought he was a pg in a pf body and played as such, and JT really was a pg who ended up in a pf body. All I really see from JT is a lack of experience but in about 5 years you are going to be wondering how in the hell I could call JT's game this early in his career.
JT's game is very similar to Webbs, Webb ALWAYS thought he was a pg in a pf body and played as such, and JT really was a pg who ended up in a pf body. All I really see from JT is a lack of experience but in about 5 years you are going to be wondering how in the hell I could call JT's game this early in his career.
L
JT is not anywhere close to Webber right now IMO. Webber was a phenomenal passer for a big man and he was a great finisher when in close. JT has a lot of work to do in both of those areas right now. I think JT is a nice player right now and he's ahead of schedule in terms of where we thought he would be but to compare him right now to CWebb not warranted.
Don't forget Webber's strength. Webber could take the ball with one hand, get the shot blocked and still dunk it. Plus, I don't remember any PF who could defend Shaq as well as Webber. He had the strength to keep Shaq from backing him down to get position on the blocks.
I'm not sure why JT doesn't go up stronger and relies on tips so much. Maybe it's his length or vertical. He justs doesn't go straight up and dunk, and he always uses two hands. Last year 100% of his dunks were assisted. So, none of his dunks were from offensive rebounds, where he brought the ball down and went up strong.
I'm not sure why JT doesn't go up stronger and relies on tips so much. Maybe it's his length or vertical. He justs doesn't go straight up and dunk, and he always uses two hands. Last year 100% of his dunks were assisted. So, none of his dunks were from offensive rebounds, where he brought the ball down and went up strong.
K
I said "almost in the same mold" not "they are the EXACT same player". There are a lot of similarities in their games no doubt. But I'm not saying JT will be the next Webber and play basketball the exact same way. But just wait until JT is 5 years in the league, he improves so much week to week in a few years we'll all be salivating at his game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN2OLA7mSY4&NR=1
People seem to have forgotten the outta control beastery Webber was capable of.
I'm psyched over JT too, and he is the best PF we've had since C-Webb. But until he has a 26/13/5 season or two...
People seem to have forgotten the outta control beastery Webber was capable of.
I'm psyched over JT too, and he is the best PF we've had since C-Webb. But until he has a 26/13/5 season or two...
Uh yes, I deny they play it remotely similarly.
Jason's recent discovery (or re-discovery -- did not see him in college) of the ability to pass doesn't mean he all of a sudden plays it like Webber.
In fact their games are from two entirely different schools. Jason plays it like a roleplayer. He cuts to the hoop, is extremely active on the offensive glass, gets probably half of his shots or more basically off of hustle and movement. He rebounds via hyper-activity too.
Webber played it like a star. He had the ball, he created his own shots. He also created shots for others. He wasn't in there thrashing around the hoop lookng for loose balls, he was at the elbow directing things, or in the post directing things. He had considerable post game when he wanted to use it, agaisnt even good defenders, something Jason has not shown. When he rebounded he was as far from Jason as possible. The hands BTW are not remotely comparable. I was surprised to even hear someoen say Jason had good hands, let alone compare them to Webb, who quite possibly had the best hands of any PF in the history of basketball. And when Webber rebounded, it wasn't activity that did it (indeed if anything he sometimes got accused of being lazy because with those phsycial skills he should have averaged 13 a year every year), nor was it good technique (he wasn't like Oakley either), it was all about those amazing hands, and another thing Jason does not have -- great length/long arms. And it wasn't on the offensive glass as a rule -- he dominated the d-boards. The length, timing , and hands, also made him a huge steal/block player until he got old. Something else Jason does not have.
Aside from the passing, which truly is a nice new development to Jaosn game, there is almsot no similarity at all. And of course there is a class break with the passing too, both in its quality (Jason makes solid passes, Webber made Magic Johnson passes) and its timing/use (Webber ran an entire structured offense, Jason picks them up here and there. to whatever degree the passing does bear any resemblance I would strongly suspect its jsut Coachie's influence. Coachie once had Kenny Thomas getting trible double's too.
There are some similarities in their games, but not enough to really compare the two, in my opinion. JT is a great hustle player, solid rebounder, and an excellent passer so far this year (for a big). Webber, however, was the guy you could count on to make something happen. You'd put him in the high post, throw him the ball, and just let him go to work. JT has a good passing game for sure, but he's not a play maker, like Webber. Webber was also the better finisher (but, to be fair, JT could still figure out that part of his game).
JT: Great hustle big, plays as hard as he can every night, great rebounder, etc. Looks like, in his prime, he could be a top 5-10 pf in the league on the simple fact that he has legit size and gives %100 every night.
Webb: A superstar. Did things from the four position that nobody has done before, or since. Was 'the man' on offense, because he had enough talent that nobody could stop him. MVP candidate, etc., ect. JT could put up identical stats to Webb and still not have the impact that Chris did. That's no knock on JT, #4 was just on a different planet.
JT: Great hustle big, plays as hard as he can every night, great rebounder, etc. Looks like, in his prime, he could be a top 5-10 pf in the league on the simple fact that he has legit size and gives %100 every night.
Webb: A superstar. Did things from the four position that nobody has done before, or since. Was 'the man' on offense, because he had enough talent that nobody could stop him. MVP candidate, etc., ect. JT could put up identical stats to Webb and still not have the impact that Chris did. That's no knock on JT, #4 was just on a different planet.
K
Webb came from a big school highly touted. So yeah, the mindsets coming out of college were much different. But eventually, JT will put up Webber type #'s and I'll laugh about it. Now whether he will impact a game like Webb, well, Webb was a beast and my favorite player to play for the Kings. So I'm not just saying this out of my ***. But I think that JT when it's all said and done will have posted very similar #'s to Webbs, because he has the talent just not the mindset and gamespeed. However, those two things can be developed, the talent part is something that can't be developed. That is inherent.
If you can convince me that Petrie didn't see JT and think of Webber, or see Hawes and think of Vlade, then you should be the coach and not Westphal.
If you can convince me that Petrie didn't see JT and think of Webber, or see Hawes and think of Vlade, then you should be the coach and not Westphal.
I've commented about similarities between Jason and Webb several times, right from the day JT was drafted.
But, to be honest, it's not something I think is tangible at this point in time. It's a bit of an attitude, a bit of a potential and even something as inconsequential as the smile that all contributes to the total package.
I'm not saying JT will ever be anywhere close to the player Webber was, though. That is yet to be seen.
I think people just might be looking to paint the likeness more than is really there because of how much Webber's game meant to us.
Comparing JT and Hawes to Webber and Vlade is okay if you don't try and stretch it too far. A black guy with a big smile and a white guy with what appears might be a talent for passing doesn't necessarily lead to jerseys retired in the rafters... at least not yet.
But, to be honest, it's not something I think is tangible at this point in time. It's a bit of an attitude, a bit of a potential and even something as inconsequential as the smile that all contributes to the total package.
I'm not saying JT will ever be anywhere close to the player Webber was, though. That is yet to be seen.
I think people just might be looking to paint the likeness more than is really there because of how much Webber's game meant to us.
Comparing JT and Hawes to Webber and Vlade is okay if you don't try and stretch it too far. A black guy with a big smile and a white guy with what appears might be a talent for passing doesn't necessarily lead to jerseys retired in the rafters... at least not yet.
K
I've commented about similarities between Jason and Webb several times, right from the day JT was drafted.
But, to be honest, it's not something I think is tangible at this point in time. It's a bit of an attitude, a bit of a potential and even something as inconsequential as the smile that all contributes to the total package.
I'm not saying JT will ever be anywhere close to the player Webber was, though. That is yet to be seen.
I think people just might be looking to paint the likeness more than is really there because of how much Webber's game meant to us.
Comparing JT and Hawes to Webber and Vlade is okay if you don't try and stretch it too far. A black guy with a big smile and a white guy with what appears might be a talent for passing doesn't necessarily lead to jerseys retired in the rafters... at least not yet.
But, to be honest, it's not something I think is tangible at this point in time. It's a bit of an attitude, a bit of a potential and even something as inconsequential as the smile that all contributes to the total package.
I'm not saying JT will ever be anywhere close to the player Webber was, though. That is yet to be seen.
I think people just might be looking to paint the likeness more than is really there because of how much Webber's game meant to us.
Comparing JT and Hawes to Webber and Vlade is okay if you don't try and stretch it too far. A black guy with a big smile and a white guy with what appears might be a talent for passing doesn't necessarily lead to jerseys retired in the rafters... at least not yet.
And potentially I'll agree with you. That would be the picture perfect ending... I just try and live in the now and enjoy watching them develop their games and not put too many expectations on them.
But, having said that, Jason Thompson is not the player coming out of college that Chris Webber was and Spencer Hawes is certainly no Vlade Divac. Can they eventually get there? That's the part where potential comes in but I think you have to agree that would be taking their careers to the ultimate peak.
But, having said that, Jason Thompson is not the player coming out of college that Chris Webber was and Spencer Hawes is certainly no Vlade Divac. Can they eventually get there? That's the part where potential comes in but I think you have to agree that would be taking their careers to the ultimate peak.
I voted for Nocioni because of the stellar job he did on Durant. I have never seen a player get superstar calls from the refs at such an early stage in their careers. Durant could easily gone off for 50 or more without Noc guarding. If that happens, we lose the game.
The only reason I couldn't vote for Tyreke or Jason was the bad case of "rimroids" they both had. They had a crappy time finishing.
The only reason I couldn't vote for Tyreke or Jason was the bad case of "rimroids" they both had. They had a crappy time finishing.
K
I voted for Nocioni because of the stellar job he did on Durant. I have never seen a player get superstar calls from the refs at such an early stage in their careers. Durant could easily gone off for 50 or more without Noc guarding. If that happens, we lose the game.
The only reason I couldn't vote for Tyreke or Jason was the bad case of "rimroids" they both had. They had a crappy time finishing.
The only reason I couldn't vote for Tyreke or Jason was the bad case of "rimroids" they both had. They had a crappy time finishing.
And potentially I'll agree with you. That would be the picture perfect ending... I just try and live in the now and enjoy watching them develop their games and not put too many expectations on them.
But, having said that, Jason Thompson is not the player coming out of college that Chris Webber was and Spencer Hawes is certainly no Vlade Divac. Can they eventually get there? That's the part where potential comes in but I think you have to agree that would be taking their careers to the ultimate peak.
But, having said that, Jason Thompson is not the player coming out of college that Chris Webber was and Spencer Hawes is certainly no Vlade Divac. Can they eventually get there? That's the part where potential comes in but I think you have to agree that would be taking their careers to the ultimate peak.
Jason has no shot whatsoever. Its bordrline ridiculous to even thnk he does. Webb was one of the ten most talented PFs ever to play the game. Jason is working his butt off just to establish himself as an NBA starter. If he was 19 it would still be ridiculous -- he's never shown major star stuff. But at 23 and nearing the age when players pretty much top out...
Its just the sort of thing that you would never ever find anywhere but a Kings board. And we are a Kings board, so it fits but just...
. Chris Webber was better than either Bosh or Amare or Dirk. Duncan is old. You are talking Jason Thompson superstar + best PF in the game, perennial All Star, potential HOFer. I'll settle for him slowing down, cleaning up his act, and giving us solid starter.
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That would be taking their careers beyond the ultimate peak and straight into lala land. Hawes maybe could equal Vlade, if he completely and totally reversed every intangible trend he's been working on. Vlade was a very good player, but he's not unapproachable.
Jason has no shot whatsoever. Its bordrline ridiculous to even thnk he does. Webb was one of the ten most talented PFs ever to play the game. Jason is working his butt off just to establish himself as an NBA starter. If he was 19 it would still be ridiculous -- he's never shown major star stuff. But at 23 and nearing the age when players pretty much top out...
Its just the sort of thing that you would never ever find anywhere but a Kings board. And we are a Kings board, so it fits but just.... Chris Webber was better than either Bosh or Amare or Dirk. Duncan is old. You are talking Jason Thompson superstar + best PF in the game, perennial All Star, potential HOFer. I'll settle for him slowing down, cleaning up his act, and giving us solid starter.
Jason has no shot whatsoever. Its bordrline ridiculous to even thnk he does. Webb was one of the ten most talented PFs ever to play the game. Jason is working his butt off just to establish himself as an NBA starter. If he was 19 it would still be ridiculous -- he's never shown major star stuff. But at 23 and nearing the age when players pretty much top out...
Its just the sort of thing that you would never ever find anywhere but a Kings board. And we are a Kings board, so it fits but just...
. Chris Webber was better than either Bosh or Amare or Dirk. Duncan is old. You are talking Jason Thompson superstar + best PF in the game, perennial All Star, potential HOFer. I'll settle for him slowing down, cleaning up his act, and giving us solid starter.
I'll add as a reference point Webber averaged 20/10/5 with two blocks and two steals when he was 23.
Thompson has a chance to be a solid player but comparatively Tyreke has a better chance to be the next Oscar Robertson than JT has to being Webb. And I would NEVER make that argument..yet
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It actually normally works in reverse -- the further out it goes, the more the warts and off court issues fade and people just forget + look at the numbers. Eventually they'll start referring to him as "pioneering PF" etc. And he may very well still not get in, but his best chance is 10-15 years from now, not now.
A
yeah... webber and tmac are gonna be two of those players that just didnt get the chance to become the hall of famers that everyone thought that they could become due to injuries.... but at the time webber was the 2nd or 3rd best pf to play the game when he was in his prime. only duncan and kg were comparable.... bosh, amare and west dont come close to what webber brought to the table. thompson could play for 15 years without a single injury and he still wouldnt be half as good as webber.
its amazing that veteran kings fans would even say something like that. its borderline sacrilegious to even think of something so crazy. this team may never see a player in a kings uniform as good as chris webber. i dont care how highly you think of evans, unless we get the number 1 pick and the next lebron/duncan/shaq level player falls into our lap....
i have a better chance of winning the lottery than thompson has to become as good as chris webber... or hawes as good as divac.
its amazing that veteran kings fans would even say something like that. its borderline sacrilegious to even think of something so crazy. this team may never see a player in a kings uniform as good as chris webber. i dont care how highly you think of evans, unless we get the number 1 pick and the next lebron/duncan/shaq level player falls into our lap....
i have a better chance of winning the lottery than thompson has to become as good as chris webber... or hawes as good as divac.
That would be taking their careers beyond the ultimate peak and straight into lala land. Hawes maybe could equal Vlade, if he completely and totally reversed every intangible trend he's been working on. Vlade was a very good player, but he's not unapproachable.
Jason has no shot whatsoever. Its bordrline ridiculous to even thnk he does. Webb was one of the ten most talented PFs ever to play the game. Jason is working his butt off just to establish himself as an NBA starter. If he was 19 it would still be ridiculous -- he's never shown major star stuff. But at 23 and nearing the age when players pretty much top out...
Its just the sort of thing that you would never ever find anywhere but a Kings board. And we are a Kings board, so it fits but just.... Chris Webber was better than either Bosh or Amare or Dirk. Duncan is old. You are talking Jason Thompson superstar + best PF in the game, perennial All Star, potential HOFer. I'll settle for him slowing down, cleaning up his act, and giving us solid starter.
Jason has no shot whatsoever. Its bordrline ridiculous to even thnk he does. Webb was one of the ten most talented PFs ever to play the game. Jason is working his butt off just to establish himself as an NBA starter. If he was 19 it would still be ridiculous -- he's never shown major star stuff. But at 23 and nearing the age when players pretty much top out...
Its just the sort of thing that you would never ever find anywhere but a Kings board. And we are a Kings board, so it fits but just...
. Chris Webber was better than either Bosh or Amare or Dirk. Duncan is old. You are talking Jason Thompson superstar + best PF in the game, perennial All Star, potential HOFer. I'll settle for him slowing down, cleaning up his act, and giving us solid starter.
K
That would be taking their careers beyond the ultimate peak and straight into lala land. Hawes maybe could equal Vlade, if he completely and totally reversed every intangible trend he's been working on. Vlade was a very good player, but he's not unapproachable.
Jason has no shot whatsoever. Its bordrline ridiculous to even thnk he does. Webb was one of the ten most talented PFs ever to play the game. Jason is working his butt off just to establish himself as an NBA starter. If he was 19 it would still be ridiculous -- he's never shown major star stuff. But at 23 and nearing the age when players pretty much top out...
Its just the sort of thing that you would never ever find anywhere but a Kings board. And we are a Kings board, so it fits but just.... Chris Webber was better than either Bosh or Amare or Dirk. Duncan is old. You are talking Jason Thompson superstar + best PF in the game, perennial All Star, potential HOFer. I'll settle for him slowing down, cleaning up his act, and giving us solid starter.
Jason has no shot whatsoever. Its bordrline ridiculous to even thnk he does. Webb was one of the ten most talented PFs ever to play the game. Jason is working his butt off just to establish himself as an NBA starter. If he was 19 it would still be ridiculous -- he's never shown major star stuff. But at 23 and nearing the age when players pretty much top out...
Its just the sort of thing that you would never ever find anywhere but a Kings board. And we are a Kings board, so it fits but just...
. Chris Webber was better than either Bosh or Amare or Dirk. Duncan is old. You are talking Jason Thompson superstar + best PF in the game, perennial All Star, potential HOFer. I'll settle for him slowing down, cleaning up his act, and giving us solid starter.
Is Thompson's skill set similar to Webber's? You betcha. Does Thompson do all the same things Webber did? No. Does Thompson play as good as Webber at this point in his career? No. Because of his makeup and skill set, does he have a chance to approach Webbs contributions on the court? Definitely. Will he ever perform at or near the same level Webber did? Highly unlikely. Is it possible for Thompson to have a career where he a few years he can put up numbers similar to Webbers? I do believe so.
I think JT will figure it out, I think he has a legit future in this league and I think he has a lot of interesting tools that, if he can bring them together and I'm betting he can, will make him a legit threat in this league. He's already shown us that he has learned how to stop getting into foul trouble so easily, what would lead one to believe that he can't figure out other aspects of his game?
I just see him as having a lot of potential, and not every player develops at the same rate. Some very strong names have developed later in their careers and I see a lot of potential and an eagerness to learn in JT. And yes, some of the things he can do as a pf remind me of the things Webb can do. JT I guess could be called a less flashy, less controlled player than Webber. But I can't see another pf in the league to compare him to and I know Webb's game so well, it fits to me. Webb just developed faster but was derailed because of injuries playing 831 games over 14 seasons, avg 59 games a season. I don't know, maybe I can just see JT avg 20 ppg, 10 reb, 4 assists with a steal and a block for a few seasons and that reminds me of Webber's production.
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