[Grades] Grades v. Suns 4/3/12

[mac]

Because IT hasn't had the PT Tyreke has, and once IT got it his consistency puts Tyreke to shame. Not to mention the improvement IT has shown where Tyreke hasn't.

Lol improvement from when? Man, dude you're losing it. Tyreke hasn't shown improvement? Ok so he hasn't gotten better off the ball at all. So he hasn't stopped pounding the ball. So he hasn't been scoring at a higher FG% at a position he's not used to playing.

But noooo, IT has improved, since ... college? Love how it's "because IT hasn't had the PT Tyreke has". Dude, you're like the guys who were all "Jimmer would be an all-star, but he hasn't had the PT that IT has".

You know who else is consistent? John Salmons. Travis Outlaw. They consistently give us nothing. How come they don't have "consistency [that] puts Tyreke to shame"? Oh cos their stats suck. Mm. But IT has poorer stats than Tyreke on the year. Oh, but it's cos he hasn't gotten the PT Tyreke has. Hmm, but IT isn't even passing the ball to Evans within a halfcourt set, how is Evans supposed to contribute? Oh, but it's cos Tyreke can't shoot so it's better that Isaiah goes 1 on 1 or runs a 2 man game with Cuz. Alright, how about on defense? Surely you can't say IT is better than Tyreke defensively? Oh, but Tyreke hasn't improved defensively while IT has.

SMH.

 

[Section 101]

Today's Thorpe chat

Pierre (Cow Town.... Moooooooo)


Is Tyreke the worse ROY since Steve Francis?
David Thorpe
(12:04 PM)


I liked what I saw from him against Minny. He needs to learn how to play sf and not have the ball in his hands as much.

 

[Bricklayer]

Today's Thorpe chat

David thorpe has no credibility whatsoever on Tyreke. Really most players for that matter, but Tyreke in particular since Kevin was a favored client at the time he got bumped out of town and Thorpe was one bitter slimewad. Rem when he had Omri (one of his clients also) ranked above Reke as well. You of course know this, but I'm not going to let you slip in any daggers without people knowing exactly whose wielding them and why.

BTW I would appreciate it if you remove that ridiculous quote from your sig, as you know damn well that is not the point I was making and Idon't want my name associated with it.

 

[Mal]

How is Thomas doing since becoming a starter? Why do you purposely ignore the fact he was a sub with limited minutes for the first 28 games. He's been a starter less than half the season.

As a Starter 25 25 31.3 0.493 0.384 0.835 0.9 2.4 3.3 5.4 1.1 0.2 15.3

What's not to like about shooting nearly .500 from the field......not many point guards do that. 5.4 assists vs. 1.68 TO


How has Cousins done when SAC has someone whose a threat to score from the perimeter vs. packing the lane to take care of both Evans and Cousins?

Evans is shooting .209 from 3 vs Thomas' .384 and .443 from the floor vs Thomas .493 Thomas 5.4 assists vs. Evans 4.8 and 2.8 TO vs Thomas' 1.68. Evans does get 1.3 more rebounds per game.

At point, Thomas is 50% more productive than Evans and, while subjective, appears to be the better leader on the floor.

 

[sdballer]

How is Thomas doing since becoming a starter? Why do you purposely ignore the fact he was a sub with limited minutes for the first 28 games. He's been a starter less than half the season.

As a Starter 25 25 31.3 0.493 0.384 0.835 0.9 2.4 3.3 5.4 1.1 0.2 15.3

What's not to like about shooting nearly .500 from the field......not many point guards do that. 5.4 assists vs. 1.68 TO


How has Cousins done when SAC has someone whose a threat to score from the perimeter vs. packing the lane to take care of both Evans and Cousins?

Evans is shooting .209 from 3 vs Thomas' .384 and .443 from the floor vs Thomas .493 Thomas 5.4 assists vs. Evans 4.8 and 2.8 TO vs Thomas' 1.68. Evans does get 1.3 more rebounds per game.

At point, Thomas is 50% more productive than Evans and, while subjective, appears to be the better leader on the floor.

You've had 18 posts as a member and I'm pretty sure I've hated every one of them

 

[Bricklayer]

Because IT hasn't had the PT Tyreke has, and once IT got it his consistency puts Tyreke to shame. Not to mention the improvement IT has shown where Tyreke hasn't.

You know one of the primary causes of Reke's inconsitency? Its when opposing teams bend their entire defense around stopping him. He is considered such a threat they actually design defenses to stop him. Now, it is a sign that he is not yet a truly great player that when teams do that, it often does in fact stop him. But on the other hand it is a sign that he IS a great player that teams would even take the trouble to do that -- they know what can happen if they don't and they want no part of it.

Nudge me the next time a team builds its defensive scheme around stopping Isaiah Thomas, and we'll see how consistently he handles it.

 

[mac]

You know one of the primary causes of Reke's inconsitency? Its when opposing teams bend their entire defense aroudn stopping him. He is considered sucha threat they actually design defenses to stop him. Now, it is a sign that he is not yet a truly great player that when teams do that, it often does in fact stop him. But on the other hand it is a sign that he IS a great player that teams would even take the trouble to do that -- they know what can happen if they don't and they want no part of it.

Nudge me the next time a team builds its defensive scheme around stopping Isaiah Thomas, and we'll see how consistently he handles it.

No point arguing. It's become an IT VS TYREKE campaign and I want no part of it. It's ridiculous.

 

[bajaden]

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Not because of tonight's game. But rather his defensive performance over the course of the season. We need a pf one step up from Thompson on the defensive end of the floor to make up for the mistakes of others. Thompson is ok at the defensive end, just not good enough. He'd be great off the bench though.

I wonder if your aware that if you go to synergy.com and look up all the numbers, that Thompson is one of the better defensive PF's in the NBA. No, he's not Marcus Camby with shotblocking, but he does all the other little things that are needed. Frankly I don't know what some of you are looking at. I think the majority of you just repeat the mantra thats put out there without actually looking at whats happening. Does Thompson have troubles with certain matchups? Sure! But who doesn't. If Cousins outplays Dwight Howard on a given night, does that mean Howard stinks? Thompson isn't the problem for this team. That doesn't mean Anthony Davis wouldn't be a serious upgrade, but that also doesn't mean you have to get rid of Thompson (which you never suggested). Trust me, he's more valued around the league than most of you think.

I agree, that his ankle is still bothering him, and if we had some depth, which we don't, he might not even be playing. How many players sprain their ankle and just miss a couple of games. Thompson recovers from injuries quicker than most. But if you watch him closely, every once in a while you see him grimmice and limp for a little while. Right now he lacks explosiveness around the basket. And, right now, he's probably wary of stepping on another players foot again. Besides who are you going to replace him with if he doesn't play? Greene? Outlaw?

If your wife cooks you a couple of bad meals in a row, do you ask her for a divorce? (If not married, or if married and starving, don't respond).

 

[Kingsguy881]

No point arguing. It's become an IT VS TYREKE campaign and I want no part of it. It's ridiculous.

It is NOT an IT vs. Reke campaign. BUT IT has taken his position and moved him off the ball by being more effective in assist to to ratio and getting the offense moving more.

 

[ppine]

Some of you got what you wished for in the last 2 games. Against Minn didn't Evans play mostly at the 3, had big numbers, resulting in a win? Against Phoenix (due to injuries) Thornton doesn't start, Evans at the 2, Greene at the 3, and a really crummy loss. Evans never got untracked playing "in position."

The Kings were out coached last night. The Suns packed the middle which neutralizes Evans and forces the Kings to shoot from outside which they are poor at. It was a back to back, so the Suns beat us on the break at our own game. They conceded the points to Cousins but it didn't matter because they rebounded well, disrupted the offense just enough to slow down the Kings. Phoenix exploited all of the Kings' defense weaknesses, partly because of Nash who is still a magician, and because of good big men. Who ever thought that Gortat could be as good as he has been this season? Great coaching by the Suns.

The Kings should watch last night's game as an example of what not to do on defense.

 

[Bricklayer]

Some of you got what you wished for in the last 2 games. Against Minn didn't Evans play mostly at the 3, had big numbers, resulting in a win? Against Phoenix (due to injuries) Thornton doesn't start, Evans at the 2, Greene at the 3, and a really crummy loss. Evans never got untracked playing "in position."

The Kings were out coached last night. The Suns packed the middle which neutralizes Evans and forces the Kings to shoot from outside which they are poor at. It was a back to back, so the Suns beat us on the break at our own game. They conceded the points to Cousins but it didn't matter because they rebounded well, disrupted the offense just enough to slow down the Kings. Phoenix exploited all of the Kings' defense weaknesses, partly because of Nash who is still a magician, and because of good big men. Who ever thought that Gortat could be as good as he has been this season? Great coaching by the Suns.

The Kings should watch last night's game as an example of what not to do on defense.

The effectiveness of packing the paint on Reke has nothing to do with what position he plays. And against Minnesota he spent most of the night at either SG or PG btw. Thornton went down in the 1st, and Wiliams and Garcia have played thr bigger guys when paired with Reke, and when he's next to Jimmer he's the guy handling and creating.

As for conceding points to Cousins...yeah right. They threw everything but the kitchen sink at him, finally started doubling him off the catch to try to stop him, but nothing worked. Oh, and BTW packing the paint would also be a tactic to try to slow Boogie as well.

 

[The_Jamal]

You know one of the primary causes of Reke's inconsitency? Its when opposing teams bend their entire defense around stopping him. He is considered such a threat they actually design defenses to stop him. Now, it is a sign that he is not yet a truly great player that when teams do that, it often does in fact stop him. But on the other hand it is a sign that he IS a great player that teams would even take the trouble to do that -- they know what can happen if they don't and they want no part of it.

Nudge me the next time a team builds its defensive scheme around stopping Isaiah Thomas, and we'll see how consistently he handles it.

You're right. We've seen it on several occasions against the Spurs and Suns where they don't let Reke get into the lane and give him wide open jump shots. He passed up 3 or 4 open jumpers last night to try and penetrate and force up a bad shot or a turnover. It's not a matter of what position he plays; it's a matter of him continuing to develop is off the ball game and adding the jumper to his offensive game. Until that happens, he's always going to be the guy who could never take his talents to the next level

 

[Kingster]

I wonder if your aware that if you go to synergy.com and look up all the numbers, that Thompson is one of the better defensive PF's in the NBA. No, he's not Marcus Camby with shotblocking, but he does all the other little things that are needed. Frankly I don't know what some of you are looking at. I think the majority of you just repeat the mantra thats put out there without actually looking at whats happening. Does Thompson have troubles with certain matchups? Sure! But who doesn't. If Cousins outplays Dwight Howard on a given night, does that mean Howard stinks? Thompson isn't the problem for this team. That doesn't mean Anthony Davis wouldn't be a serious upgrade, but that also doesn't mean you have to get rid of Thompson (which you never suggested). Trust me, he's more valued around the league than most of you think.

I agree, that his ankle is still bothering him, and if we had some depth, which we don't, he might not even be playing. How many players sprain their ankle and just miss a couple of games. Thompson recovers from injuries quicker than most. But if you watch him closely, every once in a while you see him grimmice and limp for a little while. Right now he lacks explosiveness around the basket. And, right now, he's probably wary of stepping on another players foot again. Besides who are you going to replace him with if he doesn't play? Greene? Outlaw?

If your wife cooks you a couple of bad meals in a row, do you ask her for a divorce? (If not married, or if married and starving, don't respond).

A couple of meals? Read the post. I'm not talking about this game. I'm looking at his entire body of work. And it doesn't tell me he's a top eschelon defensive power forward. It tells me that he's ok, not bad, not good, ok. Also, don't jump to conclusions. There is nobody better at pf on this team as it currently is. The question is, should the Kings org actively pursue one? I think they should because Thompson isn't the long term answer as a pf next to Cousins.

 

[VF21]

No point arguing. It's become an IT VS TYREKE campaign and I want no part of it. It's ridiculous.

It's deja vu all over again. Just substitute Peja v. CWebb. And I totally agree. It was ridiculous then and it's ridiculous now.

 

[Kingster]

You know one of the primary causes of Reke's inconsitency? Its when opposing teams bend their entire defense around stopping him. He is considered such a threat they actually design defenses to stop him. Now, it is a sign that he is not yet a truly great player that when teams do that, it often does in fact stop him. But on the other hand it is a sign that he IS a great player that teams would even take the trouble to do that -- they know what can happen if they don't and they want no part of it.

Nudge me the next time a team builds its defensive scheme around stopping Isaiah Thomas, and we'll see how consistently he handles it.

You're right in part. Tyreke's inconsistency is due in part to how teams defend him. Those good defensive teams that read a scouting report like San Antonio do a number on him. Those that are weak defenseless teams like Minni allow him to run rampant. That has a lot to do with his ups and downs. I don't think Tyreke's situation is different for other scorers, however. Some teams play offensive tendencies better than others, depending on the defensive talent of the team, their experience, and their coaching. I just think that the effect of their preparedness is more pronounced when it comes to Tyreke. Other players have "counters", while Tyreke at this point has no counter to teams that prepare well against him.

 

[pshn80]

A couple of meals? Read the post. I'm not talking about this game. I'm looking at his entire body of work. And it doesn't tell me he's a top eschelon defensive power forward. It tells me that he's ok, not bad, not good, ok. Also, don't jump to conclusions. There is nobody better at pf on this team as it currently is. The question is, should the Kings org actively pursue one? I think they should because Thompson isn't the long term answer as a pf next to Cousins.

I agree that Thompson is not a problem for us to the degree that we should make getting someone else a priority. We have much bigger problems, the biggest by far in my book is getting a very good outside shooter/defensive asset athlete. If we had that it would be a big step in solving all our problems. Of course, it's hard to come by. A draftee has to serve an apprenticeship which takes time and that is not a first choice.

 

[bajaden]

A couple of meals? Read the post. I'm not talking about this game. I'm looking at his entire body of work. And it doesn't tell me he's a top eschelon defensive power forward. It tells me that he's ok, not bad, not good, ok. Also, don't jump to conclusions. There is nobody better at pf on this team as it currently is. The question is, should the Kings org actively pursue one? I think they should because Thompson isn't the long term answer as a pf next to Cousins.

In the first place, I was speaking in general, and not directly at you, so I wasn't jumping to conclusions. I figured we knew each other enough that you would realize that, but apparently not. Look, if I thought Thompson was the long term answer, I wouldn't be lobbying for Anthony Davis. I think Thompson coming off the bench because he put there by a better talent is what I'm looking for. I was responding to those that want to just get rid of Thompson. Which is ridiculous.

Defensively, Thompson is one of the best away from the basket defenders at the PF position. His weakness is at the basket in man defense. He's not terrible at it, but he's not great either. Next time, I'll try and be more specific.

 

[Kingster]

I agree that Thompson is not a problem for us to the degree that we should make getting someone else a priority. We have much bigger problems, the biggest by far in my book is getting a very good outside shooter/defensive asset athlete. If we had that it would be a big step in solving all our problems. Of course, it's hard to come by. A draftee has to serve an apprenticeship which takes time and that is not a first choice.

I agree with that. Smart made some very telling comments at the end of the game. In referring to the fact that Cousins got doubled, and is going to get doubled more often, he said:

...and we have to have guys that can make those shots. Our team, it's just imperative that we have guys make open shots. It's going to have to happen as long as that young man is playing that way and is a willing passer.

 

[Bricklayer]

You're right in part. Tyreke's inconsistency is due in part to how teams defend him. Those good defensive teams that read a scouting report like San Antonio do a number on him. Those that are weak defenseless teams like Minni allow him to run rampant. That has a lot to do with his ups and downs. I don't think Tyreke's situation is different for other scorers, however. Some teams play offensive tendencies better than others, depending on the defensive talent of the team, their experience, and their coaching. I just think that the effect of their preparedness is more pronounced when it comes to Tyreke. Other players have "counters", while Tyreke at this point has no counter to teams that prepare well against him.

While this would of course flow nicely into your incessant anti-Reke campaign, allow me to point out a few flaws with your latest Reke can only beat up on bad teams slime attempt:

01/08 vsORL 28pts (10-16FG) 3reb 8ast
01/20 vsSAS 23pts (10-19FG) 11reb 7ast
02/14 vsCHI 27pts (9-18FG) 8reb 8ast
02/21 vsMIA 21pts (9-18FG) 7reb 10ast

So just cut the bull.

 

[Kingster]

In the first place, I was speaking in general, and not directly at you, so I wasn't jumping to conclusions. I figured we knew each other enough that you would realize that, but apparently not. Look, if I thought Thompson was the long term answer, I wouldn't be lobbying for Anthony Davis. I think Thompson coming off the bench because he put there by a better talent is what I'm looking for. I was responding to those that want to just get rid of Thompson. Which is ridiculous.

Defensively, Thompson is one of the best away from the basket defenders at the PF position. His weakness is at the basket in man defense. He's not terrible at it, but he's not great either. Next time, I'll try and be more specific.

Got it. Sometimes with generic responses it's difficult to know who is responding to what or to whom.

 

[Kingster]

While this would of course flow nicely into your incessant anti-Reke campaign, allow me to point out a few flaws with your latest Reke can only beat up on bad teams slime attempt:

01/08 vsORL 28pts (10-16FG) 3reb 8ast
01/20 vsSAS 23pts (10-19FG) 11reb 7ast
02/14 vsCHI 27pts (9-18FG) 8reb 8ast
02/21 vsMIA 21pts (9-18FG) 7reb 10ast

So just cut the bull.

Wassamatta...somebody stole your lollipop?

 

[Spike]

Thornton doesn't start, Evans at the 2, Greene at the 3, and a really crummy loss. Evans never got untracked playing "in position."

3/04 PHX 96 SAC 88
4/03 PHX 109 SAC 100

Oh, I don't know. Kinda looks like progress to me. How did you feel about the time before when Evans was at the 3? I think the Suns know that taking Evans out of the game is a pretty good strategy, and we currently have no counter if someone besides DMC doesn't step up in a big way. I have a feeling that having Thornton for this one, probably off the bench, could have made a pretty big difference.

The Kings were out coached last night.

I think we finally see eye to eye on something. Why worry about packing the paint against Evans when your own team does a pretty good job of taking him out of the game?

 

[Spike]

While this would of course flow nicely into your incessant anti-Reke campaign, allow me to point out a few flaws with your latest Reke can only beat up on bad teams slime attempt:

01/08 vsORL 28pts (10-16FG) 3reb 8ast
01/20 vsSAS 23pts (10-19FG) 11reb 7ast
02/14 vsCHI 27pts (9-18FG) 8reb 8ast
02/21 vsMIA 21pts (9-18FG) 7reb 10ast

So just cut the bull.

Yeah, but at least half of those examples are with Evans at the point, not at the SF position. Get with the argument, man.

 

[Spike]

You're right in part. Tyreke's inconsistency is due in part to how teams defend him. Those good defensive teams that read a scouting report like San Antonio do a number on him.

Our own team did a better job against Evans than the Spurs did...just sayin'.

 

[Bricklayer]

Wassamatta...somebody stole your lollipop?

Its borderline trolling, and you are going to stop whether you know it or not.

 

[Glenn]

Its borderline trolling, and you are going to stop whether you know it or not.

I hope. I find Kingster to be bright yet he turns this intelligence into one area of irrationality. I have never understood the attitude towards Tyreke, frankly. He is not Lebron. Boo! Hoo!

 

[Lockehead]

The effectiveness of packing the paint on Reke has nothing to do with what position he plays. And against Minnesota he spent most of the night at either SG or PG btw. Thornton went down in the 1st, and Wiliams and Garcia have played thr bigger guys when paired with Reke, and when he's next to Jimmer he's the guy handling and creating.

As for conceding points to Cousins...yeah right. They threw everything but the kitchen sink at him, finally started doubling him off the catch to try to stop him, but nothing worked. Oh, and BTW packing the paint would also be a tactic to try to slow Boogie as well.

No? How effective would packing the paint be if he could hit the open mid range jumpshot? Or an open 3 pointer?

To add to that, do you think playing a certain position would encourage him to develop those facets of his game?

I have to disagree. It might not matter to us, but i think it matters to Tyreke what you call him. You call him a PG, he'll play a certain way. Same goes for SG, and SF.

We already know what Cousins can do. I hope we can get Reke to work with Cuz. We have to find a way how. And i still think it'll be with him developing as a shooting guard while, for now IT, plays as the point.

 

[Glenn]

No? How effective would packing the paint be if he could hit the open mid range jumpshot? Or an open 3 pointer?

To add to that, do you think playing a certain position would encourage him to develop those facets of his game?

I have to disagree. It might not matter to us, but i think it matters to Tyreke what you call him. You call him a PG, he'll play a certain way. Same goes for SG, and SF.

We already know what Cousins can do. I hope we can get Reke to work with Cuz. We have to find a way how. And i still think it'll be with him developing as a shooting guard while, for now IT, plays as the point.

The thread is about our bigs. What the hell does it have to do with Tyreke? We have enough threads for this now very boring crap! Let us stick to the subject even though I realize to some this team lives or dies on Tyreke. Or maybe it is more one's ego depends the most on winning an argument about Tyreke. Just don't **** up a thread that has nothing to do with him.





Edit: BTW, I direct this comment at everyone.

 

[Bricklayer]

No? How effective would packing the paint be if he could hit the open mid range jumpshot? Or an open 3 pointer?

To add to that, do you think playing a certain position would encourage him to develop those facets of his game?

I have to disagree. It might not matter to us, but i think it matters to Tyreke what you call him. You call him a PG, he'll play a certain way. Same goes for SG, and SF.

We already know what Cousins can do. I hope we can get Reke to work with Cuz. We have to find a way how. And i still think it'll be with him developing as a shooting guard while, for now IT, plays as the point.

What did you just do there and why? You highlighted half of a sentence of mine, which completely changed its meaning, then proceeded to launch inot a full post about the altered meaning of the half sentence?

this was my full sentence:

The effectiveness of packing the paint on Reke has nothing to do with what position he plays.

Note the lack of punctuation in the middle of it -- that was my sneaky way of indicating I wanted it all read together at once to decipher its meaning.

BTW, an extended point that should really get a bigger forum: I think that Reke's lack of shooting is LESS important when he plays PG. Reason why? When you are the PG, you kick the ball. Its nice if the peole you kick it to at SG or SF can hit that open jumper. Additionally, if teams fall completely off of you as a PG, then it allows you great looks and free vision to all the passing lanes. If you don't pressure a passer, it smuch easier for him to beat you.

 

[Kingsguy881]

The thread is about our bigs. What the hell does it have to do with Tyreke? We have enough threads for this now very boring crap! Let us stick to the subject even though I realize to some this team lives or dies on Tyreke. Or maybe it is more one's ego depends the most on winning an argument about Tyreke. Just don't **** up a thread that has nothing to do with him.





Edit: BTW, I direct this comment at everyone.

Hate to say this but it has to do with the team and why they lost, really. And they didn't lose because of BOOGIE MONSTER, they lost because his wingman didn't show up and hasn't scratched the improvement BOOGIE MONSTER has in less time.