[Grades] Grades v. Suns 12/13/2013
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
ParniValjak
All-Star
Geez that was messy and ugly! Cousins kept fighting but he was out of rythm and control at times.
Gay scored efficiently and looked smooth and at times effortless while doing so BUT some of those makes were just bad, dumb shots. The fadeaways from the baseline were NOT good shots at all. He was very efficient but you could see why he would be inefficient over the course of the season because more often than not, those shots won't go in. He has great size, athleticism and is a smooth player but those dumb shots need to minimized. His rebounding was non-existant as it was for everyone not named Cousins or Gray.
Gray played his role as a back up C to perfection. Hustled on the glass, showed good hands, set some great screens and scored with some nifty touches.
IT gave me the craps! The hero ball was back again. As a point guard he failed misserably. As a gunner he got his but so his opponent who just abused him out there. Getting only 2 assists in 42 minutes is not acceptable. He showed no interest in running the team. It was all about putting up the shots.
D-Will was good off the bench! He played well and within the offence or shall I say chaos! I would like to see him improve his rebounding. For a guy of his size and athleticism, 4 rebounds in 30 odd minutes is not great!
We are going to get ugly games like this until either IT start running the team like a real PG and getting his points in the flow of the offence or we get a starting PG that is more interested in running the team and getting other involved than chucking up shot after shot!
Oh and we might have solved our SF issues with Gay and Williams but out SG is just as big a mess as the SF has been all these years. The backcourt D was no where to be seen once again!
Gay scored efficiently and looked smooth and at times effortless while doing so BUT some of those makes were just bad, dumb shots. The fadeaways from the baseline were NOT good shots at all. He was very efficient but you could see why he would be inefficient over the course of the season because more often than not, those shots won't go in. He has great size, athleticism and is a smooth player but those dumb shots need to minimized. His rebounding was non-existant as it was for everyone not named Cousins or Gray.
Gray played his role as a back up C to perfection. Hustled on the glass, showed good hands, set some great screens and scored with some nifty touches.
IT gave me the craps! The hero ball was back again. As a point guard he failed misserably. As a gunner he got his but so his opponent who just abused him out there. Getting only 2 assists in 42 minutes is not acceptable. He showed no interest in running the team. It was all about putting up the shots.
D-Will was good off the bench! He played well and within the offence or shall I say chaos! I would like to see him improve his rebounding. For a guy of his size and athleticism, 4 rebounds in 30 odd minutes is not great!
We are going to get ugly games like this until either IT start running the team like a real PG and getting his points in the flow of the offence or we get a starting PG that is more interested in running the team and getting other involved than chucking up shot after shot!
Oh and we might have solved our SF issues with Gay and Williams but out SG is just as big a mess as the SF has been all these years. The backcourt D was no where to be seen once again!
Siranthony
Starter
When we first had Cousins, Williams, Gay, IT and BM out there together, I thought they looked powerful. We really had the other team out matched. What was funny was when DC went out and Grey came in the team looked very efficient. Even better without Cousins. Things looked good until Cousins decided to pitch a fit. After that it was like every man for himself. I never saw Gay taking bad shots until this point in the game. I can't blame him at that point because team play had dissintegrated. Cousins gets paid millions of dollars to take a few hits during a game. He is not paid to act like a big baby every other fricken game. The sooner he stops taking everything personally, the sooner things will get better for him and the team.
I really don't understand all of the criticism IT is getting. Yes, he is shooting a lot, but he is head and shoulders over every other player on this team offensively, with the obvious exception of Cousins. In fact, he is one of the most efficient scoring PGs in the entire NBA (only Lin, Curry, and Bledsoe have a better TS%).
If IT wasn't scoring we'd be getting blown out of games rather than just losing closing ones.
With that in mind, I did see him create several open perimeter shots for our wings last night, but none of them could hit anything. I'd say that goes a long way to explaining his lack of assists.
If IT wasn't scoring we'd be getting blown out of games rather than just losing closing ones.
With that in mind, I did see him create several open perimeter shots for our wings last night, but none of them could hit anything. I'd say that goes a long way to explaining his lack of assists.
Oo I love these excuses even more. PG get's low assists because no one can hit a shot, so how can you blame the PG? Why didn't I realise that earlier? The only reason why Steve Nash and Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo average high number of assists throughout their careers is because their team mates hit shots while IT's team mates don't. Else he'd be better than them.
Like I said in the game thread, IT looks a lot better when he's not trying to run an offense and set guys up.
Chubbs
Starter
Children, please. That was basically a preseason game for this team. Relax.
First, the playoffs are pretty close to mathematically impossible. Give it up. It's not happening. Link to hollingers playoff odds below. Less than a 1 in 100 chance. 0.3%. Please look at it, let it sink in. Could it be wrong? Sure, but it's not.
Notice also, 9.1% chance of winning the lottery
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/playoffodds
Second, you can't throw a team together with one practice and expect miracles.
Third, the holes in this roster would fill the Grand Canyon. It's moving in the right direction, but the guards are supremely terrible defensively, a rookie who is playing enormously rookie like starts, and his backup makes 8 million and can't hit a shot to save his life. We have one nba guard on the roster (or at least that is playing like one). One. And he's not even starter quality.
Fourth, calm down down everyone about cousins. You'd think he scored 3 points with 2 rebounds and got kicked out of the game in the first quarter. He never was able to get the ball in a good position. For a bad game, that's one heckuva stat line.
Talent is still the problem. They dumped some junk, and now have holes to fill. I doubt they wanted to give up GV, but to unload the other 3 were willing to do it. They needed to do it. But it didn't make us better in the short term.
We lost a road game to a better team. A current playoff team. Simple as that. No need to find someone to blame, the team just isn't good enough. It'll take weeks if not months to get chemistry. Not one day. It doesn't work like that. This isn't a video game.
No one listened to the wise ones saying keep expectations low apparently based on the anger after this one. The suns are, despite pre season projections, a significantly better team than we are. Sorry if you don't believe that.
First, the playoffs are pretty close to mathematically impossible. Give it up. It's not happening. Link to hollingers playoff odds below. Less than a 1 in 100 chance. 0.3%. Please look at it, let it sink in. Could it be wrong? Sure, but it's not.
Notice also, 9.1% chance of winning the lottery
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/playoffodds
Second, you can't throw a team together with one practice and expect miracles.
Third, the holes in this roster would fill the Grand Canyon. It's moving in the right direction, but the guards are supremely terrible defensively, a rookie who is playing enormously rookie like starts, and his backup makes 8 million and can't hit a shot to save his life. We have one nba guard on the roster (or at least that is playing like one). One. And he's not even starter quality.
Fourth, calm down down everyone about cousins. You'd think he scored 3 points with 2 rebounds and got kicked out of the game in the first quarter. He never was able to get the ball in a good position. For a bad game, that's one heckuva stat line.
Talent is still the problem. They dumped some junk, and now have holes to fill. I doubt they wanted to give up GV, but to unload the other 3 were willing to do it. They needed to do it. But it didn't make us better in the short term.
We lost a road game to a better team. A current playoff team. Simple as that. No need to find someone to blame, the team just isn't good enough. It'll take weeks if not months to get chemistry. Not one day. It doesn't work like that. This isn't a video game.
No one listened to the wise ones saying keep expectations low apparently based on the anger after this one. The suns are, despite pre season projections, a significantly better team than we are. Sorry if you don't believe that.
Last edited:
T
Tom Bays
Guest
First time poster...great forum. Out of town poster but have liked the kings since the Joe Klein days when they were bad but still enjoyable. It think it isn't just pg that is the issue but a lack of ball handling in general. They have no point forwards or anything resembling a ball handler (Cousins doesn't count). I think this is their biggest difficulty...No Hayward or even Paul Pierce to take pressure off IT. And Jimmer needs to forget trying to be a traditional PG and put pressure on with his offense, just like IT. Don't get that guy at all. He has some talent.
It was the defense folks. The Kings' get eaten alive by two talented guards that play together. They have trouble with big men that move without the ball. They have trouble with good passing teams. Malone is fully aware of the problems. I like his notion of "defensive pride", but so far the team has none.
The game against the Suns is a perfect example of a lack of team defense. It was everyone's fault. The Suns' shot 50 % for the game and 50 % from 3 land.
On the plus side, Gay will definitely help them. I had a hard time watching the whole game, but I didn't see him force any shots. He is really smooth and the challenges with him seem to be mostly mental and emotional. He has to buy into the team concept.
Gray was the surprise of the night. He has learned how to use his size and is a good compliment for Cousins.
The Tucker technical was interesting to me. Cousins showed a willingness to stand up for IT without getting in trouble with the refs. On the edge of the screen you could see Cousins give Tucker a slight elbow while walking back to the bench. It was a warning shot.
The game against the Suns is a perfect example of a lack of team defense. It was everyone's fault. The Suns' shot 50 % for the game and 50 % from 3 land.
On the plus side, Gay will definitely help them. I had a hard time watching the whole game, but I didn't see him force any shots. He is really smooth and the challenges with him seem to be mostly mental and emotional. He has to buy into the team concept.
Gray was the surprise of the night. He has learned how to use his size and is a good compliment for Cousins.
The Tucker technical was interesting to me. Cousins showed a willingness to stand up for IT without getting in trouble with the refs. On the edge of the screen you could see Cousins give Tucker a slight elbow while walking back to the bench. It was a warning shot.
King Baller
All-Star
I approve the message above 100%
The Suns are pretty good. One of the best back courts in the NBA. Also a note to anyone concerned: MILES PLUMLEE CAN JUMP OUT OF THE GYM!!!.
They also did not just trade away 5 players getting significant minutes one of them being the starting PG. Who noticed the graphic Jerry displayed showing the starters from game 1 compared to last nights starters, Only Cousins remains.
With all the new players the Kings will be a work in progress for Coach Malone and Staff. And who knows, there might be more trades???
KB
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Gay played as advertised. What more could you want of the guy?
Gray was the positive surprise of the evening. When you look at him do the little things on the floor you just hope that Cousins can take note of the fact that you don't have to score a lot to be very effective on the floor. Maybe Cousins can learn something from him on setting a screen. Maybe he can see Gray vacuum in a rebound and immediately outlet to the guard.
As for the rest, the 3rd quarter was a cascade of the horrific.
Considering the lack of cohesiveness of this team because of all the new players, considering how dumb some players played, it was amazing they only lost by as much as they did. This team has a ton of firepower. It's exactly what DA and Malone have said: Now they have to learn how to play as a team.
Gray was the positive surprise of the evening. When you look at him do the little things on the floor you just hope that Cousins can take note of the fact that you don't have to score a lot to be very effective on the floor. Maybe Cousins can learn something from him on setting a screen. Maybe he can see Gray vacuum in a rebound and immediately outlet to the guard.
As for the rest, the 3rd quarter was a cascade of the horrific.
Considering the lack of cohesiveness of this team because of all the new players, considering how dumb some players played, it was amazing they only lost by as much as they did. This team has a ton of firepower. It's exactly what DA and Malone have said: Now they have to learn how to play as a team.
Siranthony
Starter
I agree. You sum it up well. I think Gay is very tallented. Really we have a lot of young tallent now. It is strange how we went from overloaded at guard to very thin.
Chubbs
Starter
I posted that at the risk of sounding super negative, but we is what we is. It's a team that could use a training camp again. But that's not how it's going to be. So we take our lumps now.I approve the message above 100%
The Suns are pretty good. One of the best back courts in the NBA. Also a note to anyone concerned: MILES PLUMLEE CAN JUMP OUT OF THE GYM!!!.
They also did not just trade away 5 players getting significant minutes one of them being the starting PG. Who noticed the graphic Jerry displayed showing the starters from game 1 compared to last nights starters, Only Cousins remains.
With all the new players the Kings will be a work in progress for Coach Malone and Staff. And who knows, there might be more trades???
KB
This is a tough tough coaching situation, especially since a few guys on the team are still looking over their shoulders wondering if they'll get traded. It's not conducive to team chemistry.
Teams with guards like the suns will eat us up.
Last edited:
As I suggested yesterday, let's play "big ball", that would be a big step forward.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Stranger yet is that people thought this would be an improvement. We upgraded with Gay but we cannot play 4 shooters on the court at the same time. It was very simple when we had GV and Cousins with a side order of MLM. GV tosses the ball to Cuz. Now IT should toss the ball to Cuz and Gay and sometimes MLM. So what does he do? He shoots. It's what he does. He shoots. He is a great scorer. He is not so hot at assists. What exactly did people expect? I didn't expect a measly 2 assists but if we are in the process of having our PG be the scorer and our $15 mil man be the point center, we are screwed. It will never work.
I had an idle thought last night that if we are going to keep Cuz, Gay, MLM, and IT on the court at the same time, we might as well trade Cuz. Now, I said it was an idle thought but he is of much less use if IT is on the court with MLM, Gay, and him. IT will shoot. What did anyone expect? Let him shoot for a team that needs a PG who shoots. A few days ago that might have been us but then we acquired Gay. That changed things a lot.
Don't pick on the players. They are trying to make sense out of chaos. Let some time pass and see if the on court issues get resolved. If they don't. readjust the team with another trade but please, what did anyone expect?
Bring back Vasquez. His defense is no worse than I
T's and he is a much better team facilitator.
And now that IT starts we would be much better off with Salmons instead of McLemore, better defense and a real help for the team to get the ball into Cousins. But water over the dam. Shows, though, that Malone and the team have many mountains to climb. And remember, our two best players are "no-screen" Cousins and "shorty" IT.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
So IT is better than Gay? Really? I know he thinks so as do others on this forum but that is delusional on IT and the latter's part. It is sad that the response of our pg to having yet another great scorer to feed is to refuse to feed anyone.
Why quote my post when it has nothing to do with yours?
Entity
Hall of Famer
I don't get it either. Maybe Isaiah is upset that he is no longer considered the #2? It was one of his worst assist performances of the year with the other coming on under 20 min played. Either way you slice up last nights game Isaiah was not looking to be a playmaker at all
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Isaiah has no place as a starter on this team. He is a great scorer but he disrupts our other scorers who, sorry to say, IT, are more important than you. He would be great off the bench and that is not a new concept. The addition of Gay pushed that idea even harder. Unfortunately he's the only NBA quality pg we have so we are stuck with a dysfunctional mess. Can the guys work it out with the assistance of Malone. Maybe but I don't see how 4 scorers can be happy. I say 4 scorers as if MLM is a scorer. On the team is structured, he has nothing to offer whether he finds his shooting stroke or not. If we are going to waste a SG, let it be MT as a starter and not waste a year with Ben watching IT, Gay, and Cuz and have little else to do.
Who legitimately thought that IT and Mac could guard the perimeter? Show me the evidence that they have this ability. IT was too busy shooting and thinking about how he could prove he was better than Gay to consider defense. Ben is over matched. For those who blame Cuz, let us all remember that he is not a good defender. Did anyone think he would become great because IT and Ben suck? He was left to hang out to dry.
Last edited:
Glenn
Hall of Famer
A trade has to come or those who think this isn't a tank better rethink the situation.
Utah just won its 6th game tying us for the least amount of wins in the Western Conference. The worst record in the East has 5 wins.
Last edited:
I like how IT basically scores 20ppg and 8 ast a game over the last week and now that's all forgotten because of one game with low assist totals. Let it become a trend this year before jumping all over the guy and calling for McCallum to start (which would be horrible). You guys do realize that Vasquez had similar low assist games this year right? Except he wouldn't score or be able to stop his opponent from scoring. At least IT can put up 20+ points if he's going to give up that many.
This game was lost on bad D by IT, McLemore and Cousins as well as bad shooting from our SG's and just an all around off night offensively from Cuz. No need to freak out, we've been losing most every game anyway.
This team just needs a rim protector next to Cousins and a SG that can shoot, play average defense and take on some of the ball handling duties.
I vote we trade for John Salmons
This game was lost on bad D by IT, McLemore and Cousins as well as bad shooting from our SG's and just an all around off night offensively from Cuz. No need to freak out, we've been losing most every game anyway.
This team just needs a rim protector next to Cousins and a SG that can shoot, play average defense and take on some of the ball handling duties.
I vote we trade for John Salmons
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The larger concern would be that this was his first game managing the IT/Gay/Cuz lineup, and rather than becoming more passing oriented he appeared to respond by taking his ball and running off into the corner so only he could play with it.
He just doesn't think right. His brain is broken. And a great deal of angst is expended on Isaiah Thomas because we're always trying to make him into something that flies directly in the face of his instincts. And the thing is his instincts work quite well for a certain role. Hss brain isn't broken if you call him a ball dominant scoring change of pace guy. There is a certain genius in identifying who guys are, and finding ways they can help you while being themselves rather than always trying to make apples into oranges.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Not on his contract he doesn't. He's making roughly 800K this year. Nearly impossible to get anything approaching equal value in return. He's most valuable to us playing on such a cheap contract, but that assumes we use him in his correct role as bench spark. Unfortunately our PG position is worse than just about every team in the league and we have no choice.
We have two hopes here.
1) IT snaps out of the " me first, I have to prove to everyone I can ball in this league", chip on his shoulder attitude, or
2) We make another trade ASAP.
I think PDA/Malone are hoping for #1 while working hard at #2.
Last edited:
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Spot on. We are expecting IT to be something he isn't.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
We make another trade ASAP. Hoping for #1 is asking a lot.
I'm all for Salmons.I like how IT basically scores 20ppg and 8 ast a game over the last week and now that's all forgotten because of one game with low assist totals. Let it become a trend this year before jumping all over the guy and calling for McCallum to start (which would be horrible). You guys do realize that Vasquez had similar low assist games this year right? Except he wouldn't score or be able to stop his opponent from scoring. At least IT can put up 20+ points if he's going to give up that many.
This game was lost on bad D by IT, McLemore and Cousins as well as bad shooting from our SG's and just an all around off night offensively from Cuz. No need to freak out, we've been losing most every game anyway.
This team just needs a rim protector next to Cousins and a SG that can shoot, play average defense and take on some of the ball handling duties.
I vote we trade for John Salmons
My views on IT are not based on one bad team game. The bench is nowhere without IT and the offence struggles to motor with IT and it is IT. He has a real hard time physically providing good set ups for Cousins or any of the others. He does it but not enough and not well enough. The result of this is that he tries, has difficulty and gives in to his own shot making which is pretty good but not near good enough.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
With the Dallas game I saw the ability in IT to be a starting point - the way he created/saw the floor/passed. Can he do it consistently? Need more than 3 games with new teammates to find outI like how IT basically scores 20ppg and 8 ast a game over the last week and now that's all forgotten because of one game with low assist totals. Let it become a trend this year before jumping all over the guy and calling for McCallum to start (which would be horrible). You guys do realize that Vasquez had similar low assist games this year right? Except he wouldn't score or be able to stop his opponent from scoring. At least IT can put up 20+ points if he's going to give up that many.
This game was lost on bad D by IT, McLemore and Cousins as well as bad shooting from our SG's and just an all around off night offensively from Cuz. No need to freak out, we've been losing most every game anyway.
This team just needs a rim protector next to Cousins and a SG that can shoot, play average defense and take on some of the ball handling duties.
I vote we trade for John Salmons
kupman
Starter
We had a very nice game offensively last night and we can thank IT for much of that. He was the one with the open shots and he hit them more than 50% of the time last night. We scored 107 points. If we do that every night we would have one the best offenses in the league. All those points when DMC was not at his best is pretty impressive if you ask me.
The D stunk. Part of that is that Dragic and Bledsoe played awesome. The other part is our D and it is not all on our guards. When a guard gets beat defensively on this team there is no one to help. The offensive player pretty much goes untouched to the basket. The bigs need to do a much better job of picking up the ball handler. The defensive problem is at all 5 positions I think.
The D stunk. Part of that is that Dragic and Bledsoe played awesome. The other part is our D and it is not all on our guards. When a guard gets beat defensively on this team there is no one to help. The offensive player pretty much goes untouched to the basket. The bigs need to do a much better job of picking up the ball handler. The defensive problem is at all 5 positions I think.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
- Locked
- Poll
