[Grades] Grades v. Spurs 2/1/2014

[whozit]

On the flip side of the coin, I wonder how many people criticizing IT for his inability to create easy shots for his teammates defended Tyreke on the same deficiencies.

Right back at ya. How many defending IT now condemned Tyreke last year?

 

[peacelate]

Right back at ya. How many defending IT now condemned Tyreke last year?

The same people defending IT criticized Tyreke. The same people who are criticizing IT defended Tyreke. I just thought it was funny that the comment was thrown out their with disregard to the fact Tyreke was probably the poster child for excuses, rightly or wrongly.

 

[pshn80]

team oriented leadership????
could easily replace IT as a starter?????

All this stems from his 53 minutes played the entire year? Most of which comes from garbage minutes by the way.

OK, so we're wrong. Any better ideas? Come on!

 

[whozit]

The same people defending IT criticized Tyreke. The same people who are criticizing IT defended Tyreke. I just thought it was funny that the comment was thrown out their with disregard to the fact Tyreke was probably the poster child for excuses, rightly or wrongly.

I can't with a straight face argue the bolded part. I think one of the things that is making it worse this year, is the mouths announcing the games are pimping IT so bad it's hard to look the other way or give a benefit of the doubt.

 

[LPKingsFan]

On a positive note, saw some improvement in McLemore's ability to dribble and drive again last night. Couldn't finish, but at least he was able to get to the hoop, which was more than we were seeing earlier in the year. Hopefully he continues to improve this aspect of his game.

Edit: also have been concerned about Acy's ability to rebound, but he led the team with 10 in just 14 minutes.

 

[bloom]

Does anybody know where I can watch all our players/coach's full post game interviews?

The trade deadline can't come soon enough...

 

[rainmaker]

Every post game analysis is now about IT. This directs the conversation away from our most glaring need. Our #2 guards are non-existent and have been all year. They offer little to nothing offensively and defensively. We basically play 4 on 5 everynight. Perhaps IT scores and shoots a lot because he has no support in the back court. Is there are team in the league that has poorer SGs than us?

Yet, both our SG's were playing better last week when they got more touches, which is directly related to IT. As soon as Gay returned IT felt it was more important for him to continue jacking up 20+ shots a night than it was to continue getting MT and Ben the ball.

As this relates to Ben I have a worry here. He's shown improvement over the last two weeks. Better movement, more confidence in putting the ball on the floor and is getting better at creating looks off the dribble. His passing is also improving. The consensus seems to be if IT is our PG of the future that there's no room for Ben, or MT, or a similar SG. My problem with that is we might trend towards moving Ben before knowing what we have and right now IT is holding back Ben's development. He's shown clear improvement which again is getting sidetracked, as it was when we moved Vasquez and and promoted IT to starting PG. We're not going to know what we have with Ben and he's not going to develop as quickly as he should if his job continues to be watching IT dribble in circles. That would be a mistake. Ben hasn't been good this year but I sure as hell would like to know what we have before dumping him and building the backcourt around IT, as I still maintain that a more defensive, pass first PG next to a maturing Ben is a backcourt with a higher ceiling and a backcourt which fits with Rudy/Boogie better than an IT/Sefolosha type backcourt where IT continues jacking up shots at a 15-18 FGA/G rate.

I wasn't happy Ben was playing like crap for so long. Now I'm not happy he's showing improvement in multiple areas but his development is getting sidetracked because he can't touch the rock for 5+ min at a time while IT is looking to duplicate Iverson's scoring records.

IT plays like every trip down the court he hears Napear yelling, "oh boy, look at that Isaiah Thomas go, he can't be stopped, Jerry!".

 

[Glenn]

team oriented leadership????
could easily replace IT as a starter?????

All this stems from his 53 minutes played the entire year? Most of which comes from garbage minutes by the way.

Correct what I wrote to make it suit you. That's what I asked and just get a boatload of whining back. I'm trying to understand you and perhaps I have.

 

[VF21]

team oriented leadership????
could easily replace IT as a starter?????

All this stems from his 53 minutes played the entire year? Most of which comes from garbage minutes by the way.

Are you truly that dense? Ray may have only played limited minutes, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that he is more team-oriented as far as running the team is concerned. If you don't see it, could it possibly be because you're afraid to look?

As far as replacing IT as a starter goes, Glenn qualified that with a pretty straightforward caveat "IF HE IMPROVES"...

Sorry, dude, but you're not seeing the potential of Ray McCallum because you don't want to see it.

 

[VF21]

The same people defending IT criticized Tyreke. The same people who are criticizing IT defended Tyreke. I just thought it was funny that the comment was thrown out their with disregard to the fact Tyreke was probably the poster child for excuses, rightly or wrongly.

Wrong. This isn't about Tyreke. It's about IT. You keep trying to find a correlation which isn't there and which, even if it were there, wouldn't be accurate.

 

[VF21]

..As this relates to Ben I have a worry here. He's shown improvement over the last two weeks. Better movement, more confidence in putting the ball on the floor and is getting better at creating looks off the dribble. His passing is also improving. The consensus seems to be if IT is our PG of the future that there's no room for Ben, or MT, or a similar SG. My problem with that is we might trend towards moving Ben before knowing what we have and right now IT is holding back Ben's development. He's shown clear improvement which again is getting sidetracked, as it was when we moved Vasquez and and promoted IT to starting PG. We're not going to know what we have with Ben and he's not going to develop as quickly as he should if his job continues to be watching IT dribble in circles. That would be a mistake. Ben hasn't been good this year but I sure as hell would like to know what we have before dumping him and building the backcourt around IT, as I still maintain that a more defensive, pass first PG next to a maturing Ben is a backcourt with a higher ceiling and a backcourt which fits with Rudy/Boogie better than an IT/Sefolosha type backcourt where IT continues jacking up shots at a 15-18 FGA/G rate.

I wasn't happy Ben was playing like crap for so long. Now I'm not happy he's showing improvement in multiple areas but his development is getting sidetracked because he can't touch the rock for 5+ min at a time while IT is looking to duplicate Iverson's scoring records.

IT plays like every trip down the court he hears Napear yelling, "oh boy, look at that Isaiah Thomas go, he can't be stopped, Jerry!".

I don't think the front office is looking to dump Ben any time soon. Remember, they really wanted him and were very happy he fell to us. I honestly believe they're willing to wait to allow him to develop into the player they want/need him to be.

 

[peacelate]

Wrong. This isn't about Tyreke. It's about IT. You keep trying to find a correlation which isn't there and which, even if it were there, wouldn't be accurate.

I wasn't the first one to mention Tyreke. Go to the post that first mentions him.

 

[peacelate]

Are you truly that dense? Ray may have only played limited minutes, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that he is more team-oriented as far as running the team is concerned. If you don't see it, could it possibly be because you're afraid to look?

As far as replacing IT as a starter goes, Glenn qualified that with a pretty straightforward caveat "IF HE IMPROVES"...

Sorry, dude, but you're not seeing the potential of Ray McCallum because you don't want to see it.

As far as leadership, he hasn't shown it. If he improves? That's such an open ended response. If he improves in what areas and to what extent? If IT improves, he might be an All-Star.

 

[rainmaker]

I don't think the front office is looking to dump Ben any time soon. Remember, they really wanted him and were very happy he fell to us. I honestly believe they're willing to wait to allow him to develop into the player they want/need him to be.

Yeah, but he's an attractive and valuable piece with upside in any possible multi-player deal, and a multi-player deal is exactly what we'll need to get value for IT due to his contract.

I wouldn't be opposed to moving Ben if a good deal came along but I'd like to see him next to a less trigger-happy PG, yet I feel in order to move IT for value it very well might be demanded he's included, meaning we'd have to give up on Ben and not know what we have in order to solve the IT issue. I don't see us moving IT without one of DWill/Ben at the least, and more likely both. And a multi-player deal is exactly what I think PDA is holding out for as it could bring in more a game-changer in return, as trading an MT alone or DWill alone or IT alone has a lower ceiling on talent return.

 

[ParniValjak]

Every post game analysis is now about IT. This directs the conversation away from our most glaring need. Our #2 guards are non-existent and have been all year. They offer little to nothing offensively and defensively. We basically play 4 on 5 everynight. Perhaps IT scores and shoots a lot because he has no support in the back court. Is there are team in the league that has poorer SGs than us?

I simply do not agree with this. Is it the chicken or the egg.

Are our shooting guards non-existant because they are not getting enough looks or because that just cannot play. I tend to think that it is because they are not getting enough looks. Now Thornton might not be everyone's cup of tea BUT one thing he does well is score the basketball. This year that has gone missing simply because he is not getting enough good looks as he used to. His looks are reduced to scraps. Just look at his games where he gets enough good looks. He is more than capable of filling it up. Unfortunately, there have been far too many games where his shots attempts consisted of contested shots with the shot clock winding down because out PG has dribbled the ball for 20 seconds looking for his shot and only gave it up when there was no other option. Bajaden's post above explains this to perfection. This is not a once off with IT but something that is consistently happening, especially with Cousins out of the team.

I am of the belief that we would be a MUCH better and rounded team if we were getting 14-15ppg and 7-8apg from IT and Thornton getting enough looks to give us 14-15ppg. Instead we are getting 20ppg on 20+ shot attempts and 5 assists from our PG who is more interested in getting his shot than getting his team going.

I do find it really hypocritical that the same people strongly defending IT are the same ones that ripped into Evans for doing the same thing. The only thing is Evans was doing it more efficiently because he could get to the hoop with the best of them and played at least solid defense. IT is just a Nate Robinson clone. Give my late grandma 23 shot attempts and she will also get you 20 points. Now Thornton has started the season off slowly but he is being asked to play a role that just does not suit him nor is it helping us at all.

We would be much better off with a true PG who runs the team and looks to get his team mates involved and gets his points within the flow of the offence. Makes us MUCH more dangerous and makes the rest of the team more productive. Especially Thornton, Landry etc.. i.e. the guys than CAN score.

 

[dude12]

team oriented leadership????
could easily replace IT as a starter?????

All this stems from his 53 minutes played the entire year? Most of which comes from garbage minutes by the way.

I agree with Glenn on this...with a little more experience, Ray could be a guy that fits with the starters and then IT could come off the bench where he belongs and come in and light it up.

Here's the argument to your comments. The IT as lead guard lineup has 15 wins. I won't put all the blame on him but he gets quite a bit of the blame....goes with the territory of self-proclaimed leader.

At this point, if Jimmer or Ray were the starting PGs all year with IT off the bench, I have doubts that our record would be worse than it is.

 

[Gilles]

On a positive note, saw some improvement in McLemore's ability to dribble and drive again last night. Couldn't finish, but at least he was able to get to the hoop, which was more than we were seeing earlier in the year. Hopefully he continues to improve this aspect of his game.

Edit: also have been concerned about Acy's ability to rebound, but he led the team with 10 in just 14 minutes.

He had one or two str8 line drives per game for a few weeks now, but in the last couple of games changing directions occured as well. He controls the ball better with every passing week, slowly gaining more and more confidence. Now would be time to drain some threes, so that there would be no excuse to keep him on the bench.

 

[King Baller]

McCallum is a player who has played like 10 non garbage minutes the entire year. Where are you seeing he has the potential to replace IT?

I said exactly that on post #8 of this thread. In the 10 minutes McCallum played in this game he showed he can defend NBA PG's better than any other current King. Meanwhile IT took 26 shots! Lebron took 22 against the Knicks last night. Can you not agree IT taking 26 shots is wrong?

If defense is what the Kings are to be known for Ray needs to play. If IT cannot live with a reduced role and eventually the sixth man role it would be best to know now so he can be traded to the Eastern Conference.

KB

 

[KingMilz]

Random (probably stupid) question to do with Ray

Is it common for teams to sign 2nd round draft picks (if the team likes them) to 3 year deals (I assume it's not/but I don't know)? I remember thinking when they did sign him that they must see something in him to give him a 3 year deal even if it is at a low price.

 

[Glenn]

Random (probably stupid) question to do with Ray

Is it common for teams to sign 2nd round draft picks to 3 year deals (I assume it's not/but I don't know)? I remember thinking when they did sign him that they must see something in him to give him a 3 year deal even if it is at a low price.

Not that I know of. I had the same reaction. Also, they passed up Withey for McCallum. They must see something.

 

[Telemachus]

Random (probably stupid) question to do with Ray

Is it common for teams to sign 2nd round draft picks to 3 year deals (I assume it's not/but I don't know)? I remember thinking when they did sign him that they must see something in him to give him a 3 year deal even if it is at a low price.

No. It doesn't happen very often. The few times I can think of, they were signed to a 2 year deal.

 

[Gilles]

If teams see potential to blow up, they want to be in position to get full Bird rights along with RFA status (IT got one as well). As I understand signing 2nd rounders to 4 years means they are UFA at the end of their contracts (see Parsons, Chandler).

 

[mac]

He does pass. He gets about 6.5 assists per game. This is similar to Parker, Conely and Irving - PG's that people covet. On the other hand, look at the shooting percentages of our SGs. Just to warn you, you will need to scroll down for awhile. Why would IT look for guys who shoot 30%? How many assists would IT be getting if we had SGs who could shoot at an even an average %? It is hard to be a SG in this league when you can't shoot.

No it really isn't. It's not just about the raw stats but also how those passes come in the flow of the offense. Did you see how many wide open looks San Antonio got? Belinelli (who is what, 2nd in the league in 3P%?) just missed a bunch of wide open shots. Compare that with the number of open looks we got, which frankly from memory were less than a handful. However, IT passing it with 3 seconds on the shotclock (on one of his patented jump in the iar to shoot, oops defender here I better pass the ball) to Jason Thompson who hits a tough shot still counts as an assist.

I find it funny that at SG we drafted a supposed shooter (ehmagawdz he is so goodser than Tyreke cos he can shoots! You cannot be an SG if you cannots shoots!) and we also have Marcus Thornton, and as much as I'm not a fan of his I have to admit he can shoot and score. All shooters need to get into some sort of rhythm. But now their %s are down and instead of perhaps considering the possibility that the offense is simply not setting them up for good shots we immediately jump to say that they cannot shoot and hence IT's assists are lower than they should be. Interesting.

 

[The_Jamal]

Personally, I think we're just in a world a hurt without that #15 in the middle. The Hierarchy is in shambles. We had a perfectly suited Cuz, then Gay then IT then everyone else offensive structure that lead to .500 ball against a fairly tough and the first 18 game stretch for that roster.

 

[The_Jamal]

On a side-note, this board would crumble into a million pieces without IT on the team. What would the grades thread talk about? The weather?

 

[KingMilz]

If teams see potential to blow up, they want to be in position to get full Bird rights along with RFA status (IT got one as well). As I understand signing 2nd rounders to 4 years means they are UFA at the end of their contracts (see Parsons, Chandler).

O ok thank you for clearing that up, makes sense now.

 

[randymoss1881]

On a side-note, this board would crumble into a million pieces without IT on the team. What would the grades thread talk about? The weather?

We would talk about McCallum blowing up

 

[HereWeBoogie]

On a side-note, this board would crumble into a million pieces without IT on the team. What would the grades thread talk about? The weather?

Probably talk about the game we just won since we didn't have the Pizza Guy out there chucking selfish bricks after dribbling 20sec off the clock (or sometimes only 3 secs) and displaying his horrible basketball IQ in crunch time

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

No it really isn't. It's not just about the raw stats but also how those passes come in the flow of the offense. Did you see how many wide open looks San Antonio got? Belinelli (who is what, 2nd in the league in 3P%?) just missed a bunch of wide open shots. Compare that with the number of open looks we got, which frankly from memory were less than a handful. However, IT passing it with 3 seconds on the shotclock (on one of his patented jump in the iar to shoot, oops defender here I better pass the ball) to Jason Thompson who hits a tough shot still counts as an assist.

I find it funny that at SG we drafted a supposed shooter (ehmagawdz he is so goodser than Tyreke cos he can shoots! You cannot be an SG if you cannots shoots!) and we also have Marcus Thornton, and as much as I'm not a fan of his I have to admit he can shoot and score. All shooters need to get into some sort of rhythm. But now their %s are down and instead of perhaps considering the possibility that the offense is simply not setting them up for good shots we immediately jump to say that they cannot shoot and hence IT's assists are lower than they should be. Interesting.

Oh please. Anything else we should blame Thomas for?

McLemore has had plenty of open 3's. Plenty. Same goes for Thornton

McLemore wasn't shooting well in the summer league either. Or when Vasquez was here. Or in the preseason. Maybe it's the deeper 3-point line? I don't know, but lets not blame his obvious struggles (all over the court, not just shooting) on Thomas. He's been bad, no excuses.

And Thornton has been bad all year as well. With Vasquez, with Thomas, off the bench, as a starter. He isn't good right now.

I bet Thomas is the reason John Salmons was bad here all those years. Kenny Thomas? Thats all IT baby. If only the Kings didn't draft him 4 years after we got rid of K9 he would have been much better.

Don't forget Mikki Moore - he would have earned that money no problem if IT wasn't on the team right now.

 

[King Baller]

Oh please. Anything else we should blame Thomas for?

How about taking 26 shots in the last game?