[Grades] Grades v. Sixers 03/24/2013

How many roster moves do you think it will take to be a good defensive team next year

  • none -- a coach alone can fix us

    Votes: 5 14.7%
  • 1-2 new players (a defensive captain or shotblocker alone)

    Votes: 15 44.1%
  • 3-4 new players (just get rid of our worst defenders)

    Votes: 5 14.7%
  • 5-6 new players (half the roster)

    Votes: 4 11.8%
  • 7-8 new players (all but the core)

    Votes: 2 5.9%
  • 9-10 new players (all but our best current defenders)

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • everybody

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    34
  • Poll closed .
We could have the best players in the league and they'd still be useless without effective coaching - a man with a plan who could get them to work together and do those things that mean the difference between a bunch of guys in matching uniforms and A TEAM.
My problem with this "get a coach" answer is always, are you surej? Which came first the chicken or the egg? I'm not confident of the answer. Read on here and it is the coach, the coach, the coach but I'm not sure. I wonder if it is our star players, Cuz, Tyreke, IT. It might not be them but I'm not sure. Good basketball players play good defense, we start two, Evans and Salmons. So what do we do next? A new coach would help but how much? Would it do the trick. At least if he were a good coach, our stars couldn't hide behind the "we need a new coach" protection.
 
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My problem with this "get a coach" answer is always, are you surej? Which came first the chicken or the egg? I'm not confident of the answer. Read on here and it is the coach, the coach, the coach but I'm not sure. I wonder if it is our star players, Cuz, Tyreke, IT. It might not be them but I'm not sure. Good basketball players play good defense, we start two, Evans and Salmons. So what do we do next? A new coach would help but how much? Would it do the trick. At least if were good, out stars couldn't hide behind the "we need a new coach" protection.

Yep, I'm sure. Regardless of how good (or bad) our players are, you must have a decent coach. It's not the only requirement but it's certainly a key requirement. There's a reason teams have coaches and don't just let the players figure it all out for themselves. A coach has to look at EACH player and figure out how to maximize his use to make him the best possible player in a TEAM setting.

After every game I read the comments and there's always disagreement about what IT should/could have done or what Reke could/should have done, etc. You know why? Because they aren't receiving the proper direction they need from their head coach. Look at how our new acquisitions are playing. I've seen them defend, I've seen them call out screens, I've seen them do a lot of things our veteran players never do. Why? Because it's not stressed in practices or games. That all falls on the coaches. They're the foundation for building a successful team. That's why you see the best coaches not moving around from team to team.

A good head coach, paired with a GM with a vision and ownership willing to spend $$$ for a successful team will make all the difference in the world. We won't have to argue the merits of players who are second tier at best. We Kings fans embrace our players and support them. We always have. Part of it is because, with the exception of a couple of seasons that passed all too quickly, we haven't had very much to celebrate. Right now we have a couple of players with real talent, a couple of players who can be useful as role players and a bunch of guys who would be firmly nailed to the bench anywhere else but here. A good coaching staff wouldn't assign minutes to keep players happy and they certainly wouldn't ice our star players when they're having good games. Those are things poor coaches do and they're things we've gotten way too used to seeing.

I think I'm starting to ramble on more than usual so I'll stop. But I do firmly believe a good coach will get the best out of our players, make it clear where our deficiencies are and work with the front office to acquire the missing pieces.
 
My problem with this "get a coach" answer is always, are you surej? Which came first the chicken or the egg? I'm not confident of the answer. Read on here and it is the coach, the coach, the coach but I'm not sure. I wonder if it is our star players, Cuz, Tyreke, IT. It might not be them but I'm not sure. Good basketball players play good defense, we start two, Evans and Salmons. So what do we do next? A new coach would help but how much? Would it do the trick. At least if he were a good coach, our stars couldn't hide behind the "we need a new coach" protection.
It's absolutely on the coach. Last year, Evans was perpetually out of position, and we gave up a natural advantage every night. He played small because smart wanted. This year, with additional personnel, we still went small. Again, by choice. On a nightly basis, we see three and four guard rotations. We see players playing against their skill set, and then there's Outlaw...
We see smart routinely sit hot players, and leave them out, effectively icing them. As stated earlier, smart's defensive philosophy encourages gambling and leaves shooters open. How many times have we seen IT (who isn't great to begin with) help in the lane and leave his shooter open? Smart makes mediocre defenders look worse.
 
Yep, I'm sure. Regardless of how good (or bad) our players are, you must have a decent coach. It's not the only requirement but it's certainly a key requirement. There's a reason teams have coaches and don't just let the players figure it all out for themselves. A coach has to look at EACH player and figure out how to maximize his use to make him the best possible player in a TEAM setting.

After every game I read the comments and there's always disagreement about what IT should/could have done or what Reke could/should have done, etc. You know why? Because they aren't receiving the proper direction they need from their head coach. Look at how our new acquisitions are playing. I've seen them defend, I've seen them call out screens, I've seen them do a lot of things our veteran players never do. Why? Because it's not stressed in practices or games. That all falls on the coaches. They're the foundation for building a successful team. That's why you see the best coaches not moving around from team to team.

A good head coach, paired with a GM with a vision and ownership willing to spend $$$ for a successful team will make all the difference in the world. We won't have to argue the merits of players who are second tier at best. We Kings fans embrace our players and support them. We always have. Part of it is because, with the exception of a couple of seasons that passed all too quickly, we haven't had very much to celebrate. Right now we have a couple of players with real talent, a couple of players who can be useful as role players and a bunch of guys who would be firmly nailed to the bench anywhere else but here. A good coaching staff wouldn't assign minutes to keep players happy and they certainly wouldn't ice our star players when they're having good games. Those are things poor coaches do and they're things we've gotten way too used to seeing.

I think I'm starting to ramble on more than usual so I'll stop. But I do firmly believe a good coach will get the best out of our players, make it clear where our deficiencies are and work with the front office to acquire the missing pieces.
Your rambling is OK. I understand your confidence in thoe views. I just don't know the balance between its the players and its the coach. One reason is that we can't know is how much of what we're talking about has the coaching tried to give these players. The coach can work and work with guys to get things in place and if it doesn't take, you still have to play the next game and you can't fire your players. So what has been tried on these guys? I don't know and the coaching staff is sure as hell not going to tell me particularly if a good part of the problem is with our stars.

I kow, what I've said is just a big bunch of words. I'm still scratching my head. Hopefully we'll grt a clue pretty quick.
 
Your rambling is OK. I understand your confidence in thoe views. I just don't know the balance between its the players and its the coach. One reason is that we can't know is how much of what we're talking about has the coaching tried to give these players. The coach can work and work with guys to get things in place and if it doesn't take, you still have to play the next game and you can't fire your players. So what has been tried on these guys? I don't know and the coaching staff is sure as hell not going to tell me particularly if a good part of the problem is with our stars.

I kow, what I've said is just a big bunch of words. I'm still scratching my head. Hopefully we'll grt a clue pretty quick.

Clearly the coaching is the biggest problem with this team. Lets see:

offense: we have no real system, guys don't know rroles

defense: one of the worst in the league

growth/development: young players regress, no team improvement

In-game management: rotation issues, end game subs, timeouts, play calling

relationships: cuz issues obviously, comments from other parties that seem to hint at dissatisfaction

So what's left? Doesn't mean we don't have a bunch of other issues leading to what you see on the court but he literally doesn't have a single positive thing you'd want from a coach, especially one leading a young team of mismatched parts that really need structure, roles, etc
 
There's a real lack of understanding around here of why things are a certain way and how the system effects outcomes. Many are just looking at the results, the final stats, whether in grading them or commenting on them. Rarely are posters analyzing the systematic issues and the greater effect they have.

Cuz doesn't get enough easy baskets so we're only looking at IT who misses him. A real PG can get Cuz easier looks and more assisted baskets. While that's true, that's only part of the issue, and even as someone who's not high on IT I don't lay all the blame on him for missing Cuz. The greater issue is our offense. We don't have sets which create easy baskets, whether for Cuz or anyone else. I posted a video thread with clips of how to use our players more effectively, movements, screens, spacing, and I'm wondering why I even took the time to do that. It showed numerous examples of sets/spacing we could use to create opportunities for Cuz and others. Yet all that somehow was ignored and people would just rather look at IT missing Cuz on a pick & roll or a quick flash to the basket. Exactly how many cross screens did we see from our PF to get Cuz on the move, rolling ball side to the box? How many pick & rolls did we see with either IT or Reke and a side cleared? How many back screens set on Cuz's man at the high post allowing him to dive? How about just the simple, quick pass into the paint before the defense is completely set? But it's easier just to ignore our sets/systematic issues and instead look at the final result. Who cares if IT missed Cuz a couple times? That's just a symptom of a larger problem.

It's similar to how Reke is graded or commented on. Often how he is used in our offense isn't taken into consideration. He was passive, didn't score enough, didn't create, so he gets a bad grade. Sure the final result might not look good, but what goes into that? I've detailed with video exactly how we can use Reke more effectively, where to get him the ball and how the floor should be spaced. Yet, he rarely even gets a play run for him, is stuck much of the time watching IT pound the ball up top, has a shorter leash than any other starter, yet it's many times ignored.

We arguably use our top two players less efficiently than any other team in the league, just call iso's for them with poor spacing then blast them for not doing enough.

I also question those who think what we really need is a pure PG. The top teams in the league in OKC, SA and Mia don't have pure PG's. Chi doesn't either when Rose is healthy. Lakers were better without Nash. We didn't have a pure PG with Bibby. What we did have was an offense built on movement and misdirection, with bigs who can pass. Guess what, we have a big who can pass. We have a big who can run the high post offense. We have a big most agree the offense should run through. Yet instead of looking at our actual system and how to improve it, movements/screens/fades/dives and how to actually run an offense off Cuz, we have people campaigning to take the ball out of Cuz's hands and have a pure PG dominate the ball instead. As if Cuz not getting an easy basket or two from a PG is our real problem. Actually run a good system and Cuz will get easy baskets, and the system will allow that to be done without needing a Nash or Rubio type.

It's funny. The problem apparently isn't our system which relies on IT dribbling in circles with little movement or good spacing, the problem is IT missing Cuz a couple times per game. So, just get a pure PG, let him dribble in circles and as long as he hits Cuz that time or two each game, we're set. That's ridiculous. That's not a system which uses our best players effectively. A pure PG who dominates the ball is not what will make Reke/Cuz most effective. I know some think if you think that way you're just rooting for your favorite player, but the flipside of that is we apparently have fans who simply root for their favorite type of system as a pure PG gets them all hot and bothered, and they ignore the type of talents we have and how they can be best used.

Was it a pure PG creating for Peja? No, it was a high post offense based on movements/screens/mis direction. Because of that system it didn't matter who had the ball, as we knew where Peja would be, where he'd expect the ball, and Bibby, Christie, Webb or Vlade would hit him when open. Our system under Rick started basically after that first pass into the high post. Then it was movement, the best in the league. Yet listening to people around here we'd probably have been a better team if we ditched Bibby and got a pure PG and had that PG create, as you can't create easy baskets/looks without a pure PG dominating the ball, even though that line of thinking is regularly proven incorrect. If you really love pure PG's, you should probably go root for a team who's top players aren't Reke/Cuz.

Look, I don't disagree with much of what you said. Most of it is common knowledge on this fourm. But when your grading a player, you can't grade him on how much better he might have played if we had a better coach. You have to grade him on how he played in that particular game. Now just so you know, if a player comes into the game, and he goes 5 to 7 minutes without even touching the ball on offense, I do take that into consideration with my grade. Its not his fault if no one passes him the ball. I do however feel that if your one of our go to guys, like Cuz and Tyreke, and no one is passing you the ball, its up to you to let them know you want the ball. Having said that, its also up to the coach to remind his PG, or whomever is dominating the ball to get the ball to one of those guys.

But my point is, I can't grade woulda, coulda, shoulda. I have to grade the results. The other issues are irrelevant for the most part, even though I understand the overall effect they might have on a game. As for IT! Last night he missed open teammates. I don't give a damm if its within a system or not. An open teammate is an open teammate, and if he's going to be a PG, then is his job to get them the ball. These are passes that a Jason Kidd or any very good PG would have made. Just how in the hell did Tyreke manage to get 8 assists, and IT none? Now because I'm hard on his assists in this one game, doesn't mean I don't give him credit when has a good game. Ditto, any player I grade. I don't play favorites when it comes to grading. I love JT, but I'll certainly say when I think he stunk the place out, and lately, thats what he's been doing.

We all here know that Smart is an idiot, and a terrible coach. I assume that most of the players know it as well. Not for much longer!
 
Bravo. The concept of the "Pure PG" is a thing of the past. Virtually every PG, no matter the system, has to have the ability to score in today's game. Rubio, Calderon and Nash are probably the only 3 left who fall under the assist-first, score later category.

People want IT to be some amazing playmaker, while keeping Reke and Cousins involved in the offense. It's an impossible task. What is possible (and we should be doing) is treating IT as a SG in the offense and taking advantage of his scoring ability off of offense created from Reke and Cousins. I've been saying it all year: We have the potential for an incredibly dangerous offensive trio if we put them in the right system.

IT off the bench.. he thinks hes higher on the totem pole than our 2 most talented players. jimmer would be a better off the ball bibby type of compliment to our top 2. we have 2 players that command double teams yet they rarely get the ball with IT ball hogging.

cousins
jt
defensive sf
reke
jimmer
 
But does he truly think he is, or is his the result of smart's "green light" philosophy? That is, would IT pull this with a real coach? My gut says he wouldn't, because a real coach would reign him in whenever he was overcome with delusions of grandeur. At least, I'd like to think so.
 
But does he truly think he is, or is his the result of smart's "green light" philosophy? That is, would IT pull this with a real coach? My gut says he wouldn't, because a real coach would reign him in whenever he was overcome with delusions of grandeur. At least, I'd like to think so.

I think IT is doing everything he is doing with the full support of Smart. This is more than Smart passively allowing IT to do what he wishes but encouraging IT.
 
But does he truly think he is, or is his the result of smart's "green light" philosophy? That is, would IT pull this with a real coach? My gut says he wouldn't, because a real coach would reign him in whenever he was overcome with delusions of grandeur. At least, I'd like to think so.

I'm more inclined to believe IT is following orders from Smart. Everything we know about IT leads us to think he's a team-oriented guy. He didn't cause ruckus when he got benched and he's probably been the closest thing we've had to a vocal leader the past 2 years. I don't see him being an issue as to adjusting his role to letting Reke be the main-ball handler either; I actually think he'd be welcome to it as it would create more opportunities for him to score.
 
I'm more inclined to believe IT is following orders from Smart. Everything we know about IT leads us to think he's a team-oriented guy. He didn't cause ruckus when he got benched and he's probably been the closest thing we've had to a vocal leader the past 2 years. I don't see him being an issue as to adjusting his role to letting Reke be the main-ball handler either; I actually think he'd be welcome to it as it would create more opportunities for him to score.

You could be right! The problem is, were discussing this without having all the info. Is IT doing this on his own, or is he simply following the instructions of his coach. Well, if we look at if logicaly, just what position did Smart play in college? I believe it was PG. What position does Smart believe he has the best knowledge of (remember he moved Tyreke to SF because he didn't think he had good court vision)? Well, I believe its the PG position. So if I were to venture a guess as to what position on the floor he might have the most influence over, it would be the PG position. Therefore, I would be inclined to believe that IT is doing as instructed.

I have no personal bone to pick with IT. Only with the results he produces at times. Since I can't definitely state that he's doing Smarts bidding, then I can only comment on those results. Now if you ask me if I think IT is our starting PG of the future, then I would say no! I have always, and still do, think of him as a great change of pace PG off the bench. For those of you that think he's a good defender, all I can say is that your delousional. I find it ironic that those of you that will criticize Jimmer for not fighting through a screen, will totally overlook the fact that IT gets picked off by a screen time and time again. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If your going to judge, then be fair and objective. I don't want to pick on IT. He gives his all out there, but his all is limited in some areas. There's only one PG on this team that battles his way through screens and thats Douglas, who unfortunately, appears to be limited in some other areas.

To my mind, our starting PG of the future is not currently on our team. We have a very nice assortment of future backup PG's however!
 
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This may sound crazy, but I wish we still had Casspi.

in the sense that we'd then not have traded away a first round pick? hell yeah! as a player? well, he currently can't see any burn behind the likes of Alonzo Gee, Wayne Ellington, CJ Miles and the formidable Luke Walton. it seems doubtful that he'd get another NBA contract.
 
Partly the first round pick, and partly because he was actually a pretty good player with us, just not developed. Not his fault the Cavs are log-jammed with SFs, just as we are at PG.
 
Partly the first round pick, and partly because he was actually a pretty good player with us, just not developed. Not his fault the Cavs are log-jammed with SFs, just as we are at PG.

are they, though? there's not a one among those players that I'd be excited to have on my team and the fact that Casspi couldn't come out on top in a competition amongst these guys tells me all I need to know about him. he peaked in his first year and has regressed ever since to the point that his next stop is most likely going to be Tel-Aviv again.
 
Partly the first round pick, and partly because he was actually a pretty good player with us, just not developed. Not his fault the Cavs are log-jammed with SFs, just as we are at PG.

Pretty good in what sense of the word? He was essentially a really tall IT who also whined a lot and was a Maloof scheme to milk the Jewish community for more cash
 
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Point is, we could lose our first round pick next year. Not good. Not good-AT ALL.

Kinda irrelevant really. Peopel get overfascinated with picks sometimes. If you are picking #15 the chances are you are pickign Markieff Morris, which is to say that you are picking nobody. Could you nab a real talent? Sure. We once nabbed Peja down in that range. But your odds aren't great at that point, and 3/4 of the guys you pick that late are just guys you could pick up any summer in free agency if you wanted to.

The important work was done with Cousins and Evans -- you can't blow Top 5 picks. We blew this year's, and that will haunt us, but we've got some serious talents and enoguh pieces to trade with to create a reasonable team. better really to get that Cleveland pick exchange done and over with so that we can move on and have unencumbered picks to use int he future, for ourselves or to get the right player in trade.
 
Partly the first round pick, and partly because he was actually a pretty good player with us, just not developed. Not his fault the Cavs are log-jammed with SFs, just as we are at PG.

He showed promise for about a half a season then was complete garbage after that. The thing that pissed me off about him is that he thought he was way better than he was and he always looked out for himself more than his teammates on the floor. For example, if he missed 3-4 shots in a row, he'd just keep jacking up shots instead of trying to do other productive things out there.

Not really sure why he fizzled so fast. I remember he played in the rookie game during the All-Star break. I think he is kind of a head case. Sort of like me!
 
As far as IT, he is what he is, and what he's always been. All this he's magically going to change what he's done, what he's always done at every level of basketball, is just wishful thinking. He's the little guy with the chip on his shoulder. He's always justified his presence on the court with aggression and ballhandling quickness and in your face scoring. His numbers this year are virtually identical to what they were last year, except he's gunning even more shots. He's not growing any taller at 24/25. My greatest concern with him is that his coach and our fawning TV crew may be helping to create a monster ego and ruining him for the future. When the new coach steps in and says ok, we're going to try you as a 6th man, is he going to accept that? Or does he think he's too much of a star to play BJax's old role? Its one of those little ways the mismanaged years can continue to bite us after we turn over the old regime.
 
As far as IT, he is what he is, and what he's always been. All this he's magically going to change what he's done, what he's always done at every level of basketball, is just wishful thinking. He's the little guy with the chip on his shoulder. He's always justified his presence on the court with aggression and ballhandling quickness and in your face scoring. His numbers this year are virtually identical to what they were last year, except he's gunning even more shots. He's not growing any taller at 24/25. My greatest concern with him is that his coach and our fawning TV crew may be helping to create a monster ego and ruining him for the future. When the new coach steps in and says ok, we're going to try you as a 6th man, is he going to accept that? Or does he think he's too much of a star to play BJax's old role? Its one of those little ways the mismanaged years can continue to bite us after we turn over the old regime.

I actually think with the right coach whom he has respect for he will accept a role off the bench and do what he needs to do to help the team. I think right now the inmates are running the asylum and that's just the way it's going to be the rest of the year until we get Smart out of here.
 
I said "could" didn't I?

you did, I was just wondering if you'd really be all that heartbroken about a pick worse than 14th or had just forgotten about it being protected. seeing as it would likely mean that the Kings would've finally made the playoffs again, I for one wouldn't be too hung up about it. fwiw, the main concern about the pick being traded should be that it makes it harder to use in other deals.
 
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