[Grades] Grades v. Rockets 11/6/2015

[Blob]

I understand the frustration with Rudy. His defense has been barf. But he's not going to continue at 47% TS. He was 56% TS last year and about 54% TS for his career. Right now the spacing is bad. The guys are not adapting well to this system. The offense Karl inserted on the fly last year was more conducive to Rudy and Cuz than this space and pace system.

Rudy is better when he is initiating his point of attack inside the three line and now he is too often catching and trying to create from outside the three line and this is not resulting in respectable PPS. I am not concerned about Rudy. He's too talented to keep playing like crap and he's adjusting to have a newborn in his home.

I am concerned about Rondo. He's just not very good. Teams are laying off him and if he scores they don't mind. And he's not creating easy shots for his teammates because opponents are playing the pass. So even when passes do find their target they are not always high percentage looks. His defense is often disinterested. It's not a consistent effort. He can be lazy in transition and in rotation.

Rondo's stats are empty. And they are not even impressive empty stats. He is at 46% TS. For reference Isaiah Thomas is 57.5% TS for his career. You better be one helluva playmaker and defender to compensate for 46% TS and right now it ain't happening.
After watching Isaiah for three years I think all Kings fans know what it is to see a PG have an impact on the floor. Rondo is not that guy. He is incompatible with an uptempo offense because he cannot make enough plays in the open court. He often gives up the ball before a defender stops his forward progress. This is cardinal rule being violated which is to pass the ball before the defense has stopped the ball.

Jerry Reynolds made the point last year that Ray McCallum was better than Rondo. I tend to agree. And we gave away Ray for nothing probably when his agent requested move and we could not guarantee PT.

If Ben made the jump to 15 PPG guy (as I had hoped) and Marco was not struggling so much to get open looks at the basket, which is partly dependent on a PG who causes the defense to collapse, Rondo would have more usefulness. Even as a pick and roll guy with Cuz, I am not crazy about that potential because Rondo is not looking to score. Too predictable to opponent. One of the reasons Cousins TO rate is sky high is because the shot distribution is so poor without a scoring PG threat.

A PG who lacks the juke moves and scoring threat ability means defenders are staying home on their man and the O struggles to get consistent high quality looks. I would like to be wrong but The Rondo Experiment is not going to end well.

Vlade constructed this team with two non-scorers in his Top 7: WCS and Rondo. For this to work Ben had to take the next step in his development which was one of the biggest question marks in my mind leading into this year. Hasn't happened. Guys who have passed him by include: Rodney Hood, CJ McCallum, Jordan Clarkson and Bradley Beal. Ben was suppose to be in this group of SGs but hasn't materialized yet.

Ben plays at one speed. He doesn't read and react. His handle is loose. He doesn't use change of speeds. He doesn't play well through contact. He doesn't have feistiness. (I'd like to see him once commit a hard foul, get a technical and pee off an opponent.) He doesn't shoot a comfortable set shot from deep (I think he gets too much elevation on his jumper).

And the biggest thing, why he slipped to #7 draft, when he was projected to go as high as #1 or #2, is his head space. Ben struggles with confidence and self-belief despite elite athleticism and pretty jump shot.

This team can be good and the guys can run off 5 to 8 wins in a row and get back to .500 but Karl and crew need to decide if Rondo can lead the way. It is clear to me WCS and Cousins need to be on the floor together to solidify the defense. This is where this team can be special and give opponents fits. A non-scorer in Rondo and unsteady SG in Ben is NOT a winning recipe. This was the concern before the season and is bearing out now.

Starters:
Collison
Ben
Rudy
WCS
Cousins

Bench:
Omri
Seth
Marco
Kosta
Acy

DNP:
Rondo

It is too soon to send to Rondo to the bench for good but its not too soon to start adjusting his minutes downward. The sooner Vlade and George admit to this miscalculation the sooner they can turn this around. I am not 100% certain Rondo is a washed up as a player but my instincts point that he does not fit with a group that includes WCS and the SGs on this roster. There is no KG Ray Allen or Paul Pierce trio to mask his deficiencies.

The scary thing about Rondo when you look at his 46% TS is that this not a slump. This is what you get. Last year: 45% Two years ago 44%. Previously three years combined before ACL: About 49% TS. Its not going to get much better that this. So he either needs to become a lockdown defender or magically make shots he hasn't made in over 5 years and neither is likely to occur.

 

[pshn80]

Lots of interesting thoughts above. Helps one see the problems Karl continues to face in managing his rotations. We haven't yet settled on a team which sort of gets n the way of developing team play. We have more talent but have not got it working yet. I expect the coaching staff to get there.

 

[9x1x6]

I honestly didnt think Omri deserved an A.

He shot 3 28 footers, luckily 1 fell. But he really, really needs to learn to pass a few more times. As soon as the ball hits his hands in the rotation it usually stops right there.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

He was our best defensive player, and every time he came into the game, Houston went back to being human. By my count, four times in the game Harden was one on one with Willie on the perimeter, and three of those times he thought better of trying to take him off the dribble, and the one time he did try to score on Willie, he missed badly. You can't judge Willie by his stat sheet. He only had two blocks in the game, but he altered several others, and changed some minds more than once. He disrupted the pick and roll time and time again.

I totally agree. I was a bit angry with Karl for waiting so long to get him into the game when we got down 16 points (or whatever it was) early on. After the 1st timeout, I though we'd sub -- but the same lethargic 5 came back on the floor.

It seemed to me that the Kings would dig a deeper hole with WCS (and some of the other bench players) out of the game but as soon as they got PT -- we'd fight back.

There were a few plays where Capela capitalized on WCS having to leave him to protect the basket (not his fault), but, other than that, I thought Willie was pretty darn good.

It's actually kind of weird. When you see Willie switched off to a smaller guard on the perimeter, you immediately expect them to try to exploit the matchup but they rarely even try. It's almost as if WCS already has a great deal of respect for his all-around defensive abilities even though he hasn't had to show it much. I'm definitely noticing many of the guards putting more arc on their shots when they get into the paint. They know he's lurking. Harden missed a couple floaters that Willie just missed blocking because Harden put extra lift on them.

I really like the potential of our rim protection once DMC comes back and he and Trill get their timing together.

The real problem is defense on the perimeter.
And looks like WCS might be our best perimeter defender (which is an indictment on our guards/forwards), but he can't be out there unless it's on a switch.

 

[Amit149]

I honestly didnt think Omri deserved an A.

He shot 3 28 footers, luckily 1 fell. But he really, really needs to learn to pass a few more times. As soon as the ball hits his hands in the rotation it usually stops right there.

Since he shoot 2-3 from 3, I found it unlikely that he took 3 28 footers and 1 fell...

About his passing, while his assist numbers aren't great, if you look at player tracking data he is 3rd on the team in pass numbers (after Rondo and DC) when you factor in minutes, and 5th overall.
And though he is only 8th on the team in assists he jumps to 6th when you look at potential assists (passes leading to a shot) and AST Adj (includes ft assists and secondary assists)- behind only Guards (Rondo, DC and Marco) and our 2 high usage players (DMC and Rudy).

 

[KingMilz]

I've been on this train with you for awhile. Rudy has become a lot better of player since putting on the Kings uni, and we severely lacked for talent, so I just stopped talking about it, but he's always been an atrocious side-kick for Cousins. And he's right back to chucker Rudy this season with a 47% TS.

There's a reason guys like IT and DC are so successful with Cousins. They can get to the rim, but they're also threats to space the floor. So you can't leave them to double on to Cousins, but defenses also have to respect the drive.

I look no further than what Detroit is doing with Drummond. They've surrounded him with basically one guy who can create off the bounce (Jackson, Morris is leaning that way too) and a bunch of guys who play hard on both ends and can space the floor.

I'm glad you noticed the Pistons thing as well cause that's what really also got me thinking about moving Rudy (to be fair I have wanted him gone for years) for decent pieces, we just lack that element of toughness and unselfishness and Rudy is basically the big reason why since he's awful in both areas.

 

[Kingston Jamaica]

Since he shoot 2-3 from 3, I found it unlikely that he took 3 28 footers and 1 fell...

About his passing, while his assist numbers aren't great, if you look at player tracking data he is 3rd on the team in pass numbers (after Rondo and DC) when you factor in minutes, and 5th overall.
And though he is only 8th on the team in assists he jumps to 6th when you look at potential assists (passes leading to a shot) and AST Adj (includes ft assists and secondary assists)- behind only Guards (Rondo, DC and Marco) and our 2 high usage players (DMC and Rudy).

I'm with you on this. If you go and look at the stats of this game (also in general and not just this game), it is obvious that Omri shoots sparingly and with a very high clip. Therefore, he is definitively not a volume shooter. He presently leads the NBA in 3PT%. Such a shooter should have the green light to fire whenever he feels he has a look. Omri also passes well. However, he often gets a TO for them when the receiver doesn't catch them. I've noticed that at least KK has problems to catch passes, which seems to more his than the passers problem.

Brick's grading is pretty much spot on with what thought it should be. I continue to be excited by WCS game. Great pick!

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm glad you noticed the Pistons thing as well cause that's what really also got me thinking about moving Rudy (to be fair I have wanted him gone for years) for decent pieces, we just lack that element of toughness and unselfishness and Rudy is basically the big reason why since he's awful in both areas.

Ah yes, SVG's 4 out, with which he won...well absolutely nothing actually. But here he comes again, taking advantage of a Conference with no personnel to abuse it.

And Rudy a) is not a sidekick; and b) has done quite well beside Cousins for 2 years now. What he is is the #2 weapon. The very thing SVG's junkball has never provided. The only 4 out team to ever win that way were the Rockets, who did it for 1 half season (the year they broke through Thorpe was the PF). You might be able to call 1 of the Shaq in Kobe teams 4 out, but only as a coincidence. Horace Grant, A.C. Green, even Samaki Walker were PFs there before and with Horry.

You need the #2 weapon. Quite obviously we don't have a guard to do it. Enter Rudy. And Rudy's failure this year has not been to supplement Cousins, its precisely been to pick up the slack when Cousins went out. That was not nearly such an issue in years past. This is new. Offense oriented maybe, or maybe so early in the season it really is Rudy having a lingering injury, not being a pro about the kid thing, whatever. We have a longterm trend here of basically 1 week.

 

[Kingster]

Ah yes, SVG's 4 out, with which he won...well absolutely nothing actually. But here he comes again, taking advantage of a Conference with no personnel to abuse it.

And Rudy a) is not a sidekick; and b) has done quite well beside Cousins for 2 years now. What he is is the #2 weapon. The very thing SVG's junkball has never provided. The only 4 out team to ever win that way were the Rockets, who did it for 1 half season (the year they broke through Thorpe was the PF). You might be able to call 1 of the Shaq in Kobe teams 4 out, but only as a coincidence. Horace Grant, A.C. Green, even Samaki Walker were PFs there before and with Horry.

You need the #2 weapon. Quite obviously we don't have a guard to do it. Enter Rudy. And Rudy's failure this year has not been to supplement Cousins, its precisely been to pick up the slack when Cousins went out. That was not nearly such an issue in years past. This is new. Offense oriented maybe, or maybe so early in the season it really is Rudy having a lingering injury, not being a pro about the kid thing, whatever. We have a longterm trend here of basically 1 week.

I'm done with Gay. And the trend has been going on with him for a long freaking time. He's just a player with an oversized reputation; he's more like a 3rd or 4th option on a good team (See the old Memphis Grizzlies with him on it) . Oh he'll have some great shooting performances - when it doesn't really matter anyway. His defense isn't much. His competitiveness is below average; his energy is below average. He can't make players better; he can't take more than a couple of dribbles without a high risk of failure either passing or shooting; he appears to have no leadership skills. He also has a strange penchant to get injured at the most inopportune times. All in all, he's not a guy that I want to go into war with. If the #1 guy goes down, you better be able to rely upon the #2. Rudy ain't that guy.

 

[KingMilz]

Ah yes, SVG's 4 out, with which he won...well absolutely nothing actually. But here he comes again, taking advantage of a Conference with no personnel to abuse it.

And Rudy a) is not a sidekick; and b) has done quite well beside Cousins for 2 years now. What he is is the #2 weapon. The very thing SVG's junkball has never provided. The only 4 out team to ever win that way were the Rockets, who did it for 1 half season (the year they broke through Thorpe was the PF). You might be able to call 1 of the Shaq in Kobe teams 4 out, but only as a coincidence. Horace Grant, A.C. Green, even Samaki Walker were PFs there before and with Horry.

You need the #2 weapon. Quite obviously we don't have a guard to do it. Enter Rudy. And Rudy's failure this year has not been to supplement Cousins, its precisely been to pick up the slack when Cousins went out. That was not nearly such an issue in years past. This is new. Offense oriented maybe, or maybe so early in the season it really is Rudy having a lingering injury, not being a pro about the kid thing, whatever. We have a longterm trend here of basically 1 week.

Interesting you call out SVG system as failing to win but yet fail to say that Rudy Gay as a #2 option held Memphis back in the playoffs and they only won when he was injured or got traded. I'm not saying we should use SVG's system I'm saying we need to get the type of players SVG brought in to replace a talented #2 option in Greg Monroe with tough minded vets in Morris/Ersan and tough as heck rookie Stanley Johnson.

 

[Bricklayer]

tough minded vets in Morris/Ersan

 

[KingMilz]

 

[Iced Espresso]

I'm done with Gay. And the trend has been going on with him for a long freaking time. He's just a player with an oversized reputation; he's more like a 3rd or 4th option on a good team (See the old Memphis Grizzlies with him on it) . Oh he'll have some great shooting performances - when it doesn't really matter anyway. His defense isn't much. His competitiveness is below average; his energy is below average. He can't make players better; he can't take more than a couple of dribbles without a high risk of failure either passing or shooting; he appears to have no leadership skills. He also has a strange penchant to get injured at the most inopportune times. All in all, he's not a guy that I want to go into war with. If the #1 guy goes down, you better be able to rely upon the #2. Rudy ain't that guy.

I'd like to get some reliable season long guard play to mix with Cousins and Rudy before I throw the towel in.

Been a long time since we had much at sf, Peja and Ron were pretty good, before that would probably have to go back to Simmons.

 

[sdballer]

Did you just suggest Morris was tough minded? The guy who can't get over the fact that he can't hold hands with his twin this year

 

[Kingster]

I'd like to get some reliable season long guard play to mix with Cousins and Rudy before I throw the towel in.

Been a long time since we had much at sf, Peja and Ron were pretty good, before that would probably have to go back to Simmons.

Feel free. I'm not basing my opinion on the games of this season; more like a year and half of evidence he's not what you want at #2.

 

[9x1x6]

Since he shoot 2-3 from 3, I found it unlikely that he took 3 28 footers and 1 fell...

About his passing, while his assist numbers aren't great, if you look at player tracking data he is 3rd on the team in pass numbers (after Rondo and DC) when you factor in minutes, and 5th overall.
And though he is only 8th on the team in assists he jumps to 6th when you look at potential assists (passes leading to a shot) and AST Adj (includes ft assists and secondary assists)- behind only Guards (Rondo, DC and Marco) and our 2 high usage players (DMC and Rudy).

Well at least 2 deep ones then, Lebron esque shots that probably won't fall to often.

 

[KingMilz]

Did you just suggest Morris was tough minded? The guy who can't get over the fact that he can't hold hands with his twin this year

I guess you must have missed that the Pistons are like 4-2 and he after Drummond is there 2nd best player and the fact he went into Phoenix and slayed them yesterday. The guy is tough minded on the court (he might not be off the court) he always plays hard D and competes. Your probably confusing him with Markieff who is more talented but a bit in the Rudy Gay mold of where he quits.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I guess you must have missed that the Pistons are like 4-2 and he after Drummond is there 2nd best player and the fact he went into Phoenix and slayed them yesterday. The guy is tough minded on the court (he might not be off the court) he always plays hard D and competes.

I agree.
But in theory Rusy can do everything Marcus Morris can and more.
Question is, why Rudy doesn't do it and why our coach can't make him do it.
Marcus Morris didn't play that way in Phoenix.

 

[KingMilz]

I agree.
But in theory Rusy can do everything Marcus Morris can and more.
Question is, why Rudy doesn't do it and why our coach can't make him do it.
Marcus Morris didn't play that way in Phoenix.

Just like you can't teach elite athleticism you can't teach effort and basketball smarts.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Just like you can't teach elite athleticism you can't teach effort and basketball smarts.

I don't know about that.
Often players change their effort level throughout their career.
And to be honest, when fat Sully hustles, runs and makes effort plays for the Celtics, why can't Rudy do it?

For me it looks like we have such a undeveloped team concept and system, that we are unable to get buckets out of ball and player movement, when the opponent ups the defensive pressure at the end of quarters.
So we fall back to our oldfashioned ISO ball habits with Gay as the “star“.
No wonder he acts like it, when we treat him that way.

My hope was that Rudy would play the role of the athletic finisher with Rondo on the floor. But so far this has not happened.
But this isn't all Rudys fault.
Rondo plays a huge part in it.
I would like Rondo to watch some tape of Tony Allen or Eric Bledsoe, when he struggles shooting.
Cut, set screens to get Belli open.
But don't stand on the 3 point line, where nobody respects you and be a non factor without the ball in your hands.

 

[KingMilz]

I don't know about that.
Often players change their effort level throughout their career.
And to be honest, when fat Sully hustles, runs and makes effort plays for the Celtics, why can't Rudy do it?

For me it looks like we have such a undeveloped team concept and system, that we are unable to buckets out of ball and player movement, when the opponent ups the defensive pressure at the end of quarters.
So we fall back to our oldfashioned ISO ball habits with Gay as the “star“.
No wonder he acts like it, when we treat him that way.

My hope was that Rudy would play the role of the athletic finisher with Rondo on the floor. But so far this has not happened.
But this isn't all Rudys fault.
Rondo plays a huge part in it.
I would like Rondo to watch some tape of Tony Allen or Eric Bledsoe, when he struggles shooting.
Cut, set screens to Belli open.
But don't stand on the 3 point line, where nobody respects you and be a non factor without the ball in your hands.

If you could teach effort than Rudy Gay would be a top ten player in the NBA and he would have never been on the Kings imo, Sully has always despite being overweight battled on the offensive glass and does dirt work on offense. Rudy Gay couldn't even muster up the effort to go all out in Memphis when they had a chance to maybe go in on deep playoff runs why do you think he will change on a team that''s looking like a lottery team again?

 

[KingsFanGER]

If you could teach effort than Rudy Gay would be a top ten player in the NBA and he would have never been on the Kings imo, Sully has always despite being overweight battled on the offensive glass and does dirt work on offense. Rudy Gay couldn't even muster up the effort to go all out in Memphis when they had a chance to maybe go in on deep playoff runs why do you think he will change on a team that''s looking like a lottery team again?

Mostly because I want to keep my hope for the season alive.
We made an All-In move to get into the playoffs.
We have no upside left on this team despite Willie and Ben.
If Karl can't coach Rudy to give effort every night, our season will be just one more dissapointment.

 

[arusinov]

I honestly didnt think Omri deserved an A.

He shot 3 28 footers, luckily 1 fell. But he really, really needs to learn to pass a few more times. As soon as the ball hits his hands in the rotation it usually stops right there.

Casspi takes 10.5 FGA in 36 min. Of rotational players only WCS has less. Casspi certainly has a bit too many turnovers (3.0 per 36 min). But still he's not high usage player. Actually it's only 17.2%. In fact "if ball hits Casspi's hand it stops there" is almost opposite to truth. Stats prove that Casspi will move ball around more willingly than almost any other rotational Kings player.
I would say the problem is quite different - Casspi is passing over almost open looks (for example he never shot long 2pt - thinks it's always bad shot if you're not 101% wide open). In many of those cases he preffers to drive to the basket (while he's not always trying to finish - he would kick out or pass to big if he see chance) but there're too many turnovers related to this. I think he need to find balance taking a bit more shots and limiting drives (while there's clear advantage to those drives - while there're some turnovers, Casspi has very high percentage on layup finishes)

 

[Bricklayer]

I would like Rondo to watch some tape of Tony Allen or Eric Bledsoe, when he struggles shooting.
Cut, set screens to get Belli open.
But don't stand on the 3 point line, where nobody respects you and be a non factor without the ball in your hands.

Send some tapes to George Karl and his idiot assistant.

It continues to be amusing people assuming/arguing that NBA players are free to just run around and do whatever they want out there, playground style, regardless of the offense the coaches have drawn up.

If the offense is some sort of "4 out" "dribble drive offense" where the idiot coach says ok you 4 go spot up while the guy with the ball tries to create a drive, then that's what you do. You want to correct that, talk to the idiot with the clipboard, not the player who's never played that way once before in his life that is now standing out there scratching his head at the middle school offensive schemes.

 

[jdbraver]

Send some tapes to George Karl and his idiot assistant.

It continues to be amusing people assuming/arguing that NBA players are free to just run around and do whatever they want out there, playground style, regardless of the offense the coaches have drawn up.

If the offense is some sort of "4 out" "dribble drive offense" where the idiot coach says ok you 4 go spot up while the guy with the ball tries to create a drive, then that's what you do. You want to correct that, talk to the idiot with the clipboard, not the player who's never played that way once before in his life that is now standing out there scratching his head at the middle school offensive schemes.

It amuses me when people argue/assume the coach can actually control the players execution when they are on the court. Simplest example our ft are horrendous so is our shooting. Can the coach make them for u? Nope. Can he make a 2 ft layup for them, no? Idc what "offense" u run if players can't do those things it doesn't matter.

 

[Livinthedream]

It amuses me when people argue/assume the coach can actually control the players execution when they are on the court. Simplest example our ft are horrendous so is our shooting. Can the coach make them for u? Nope. Can he make a 2 ft layup for them, no? Idc what "offense" u run if players can't do those things it doesn't matter.

No he can't, but the coach is asking them to play at a speed that is not comfortable for them. In my opinion, this is the reason for worse than normal shooting percentages from historically decent shooters. In an attempt to throw off the rythm of our opponents, we're actually affecting ourselves.

So in that sense, the coach is responsible for missed shots. The pace we're playing at only benefits DC and Casspi.

 

[Bricklayer]

It amuses me when people argue/assume the coach can actually control the players execution when they are on the court. Simplest example our ft are horrendous so is our shooting. Can the coach make them for u? Nope. Can he make a 2 ft layup for them, no? Idc what "offense" u run if players can't do those things it doesn't matter.

Execution has nothing to do with complaints about how a player is playing tactically. Nobody is complaining about Rondo or Cousins making threes, they are complaining about them spotting up for them.

 

[pshn80]

Bash the coach. Bash Rudy. It gets tiresome bashing Ben. Improved play last night. Be great to get the team healthy so they can lay together and continue to work on chemistry.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Bash the coach. Bash Rudy. It gets tiresome bashing Ben. Improved play last night. Be great to get the team healthy so they can lay together and continue to work on chemistry.

You should double-check the URL in your address bar; you may have forgotten which message board you're posting at.

 

[Chupacabra]

No he can't, but the coach is asking them to play at a speed that is not comfortable for them. In my opinion, this is the reason for worse than normal shooting percentages from historically decent shooters. In an attempt to throw off the rythm of our opponents, we're actually affecting ourselves.

So in that sense, the coach is responsible for missed shots. The pace we're playing at only benefits DC and Casspi.

I dont understand why you wouldnt try to push the pace by forcing turnovers. That way youre playi g tough defense and running when its natural to do so.