[Grades] Grades v. Raptors 1/9/11

[Andre87]

hey at least we know that our ingenious coach liked jermayne's performance

 

[FaStRmAn]

I still have no idea why anybody here thinks that Donte deserves any minutes. Yes, he can play good defense at times but the rest of his game is miserable. He's had a lot of opportunities and hasn't taken advantage of any of them. He came into camp out of shape. I'm afraid he just doesn't have the drive needed to become a good player.

FOUR WORDS" "HE AINT OWNED UP". While Greene has shown flashes of being a viable NBA player, he has not manifested into the kind of player that either Petrie nor the ownership were looking for. He is expendable. And he is attractive for a team looking for a perimeter shooter who has some limited inside game and can rebound occasionally. That describes Donte to a TEE. I think the Kings would have been better off cutting Donte loose during one of those "Donte Greene" show in the ULTIMATE PUNKedS !!" Have George walk out and just say "Your Fired". just like that toupee wearing fool Trump! That is how I would like st see the story end. Sorry, but last I checked, Omri has better numbers in EVERY SINGLE MEASURABLE CATEGORY. What's the Delay? Trade Bait? They haven't played him so teams have no idea how good his is or isn't playing. Something tells me a change of scenery will totally wash out the Orange man Prospect. Just a guess...

Let me be the first to predict (or at least one of the first) to predict that Donte Green is a 6'11" small forward. Not a lot of call in the league for an undersized PF, or a slow SF. Another NBA player on the scrap heap, AND ANOTHER VERY POOR CHOICE by PETRIE AGAIN ! Cant help but noticing that Petrie has done very poorly in any round other than round 1. Is he getting too tired to scout and evaluate talent not in the first round. Does he need a new scouting staff?? Many Questions, continued losing seasons... one of them has got to go.

 

[Bricklayer]

FOUR WORDS" "HE AINT OWNED UP". While Greene has shown flashes of being a viable NBA player, he has not manifested into the kind of player that either Petrie nor the ownership were looking for. He is expendable. And he is attractive for a team looking for a perimeter shooter who has some limited inside game and can rebound occasionally. That describes Donte to a TEE. I think the Kings would have been better off cutting Donte loose during one of those "Donte Greene" show in the ULTIMATE PUNKedS !!" Have George walk out and just say "Your Fired". just like that toupee wearing fool Trump! That is how I would like st see the story end. Sorry, but last I checked, Omri has better numbers in EVERY SINGLE MEASURABLE CATEGORY. What's the Delay? Trade Bait? They haven't played him so teams have no idea how good his is or isn't playing. Something tells me a change of scenery will totally wash out the Orange man Prospect. Just a guess...

Let me be the first to predict (or at least one of the first) to predict that Donte Green is a 6'11" small forward. Not a lot of call in the league for an undersized PF, or a slow SF. Another NBA player on the scrap heap, AND ANOTHER VERY POOR CHOICE by PETRIE AGAIN ! Cant help but noticing that Petrie has done very poorly in any round other than round 1. Is he getting too tired to scout and evaluate talent not in the first round. Does he need a new scouting staff?? Many Questions, continued losing seasons... one of them has got to go.

Keys to a successful and respected posting career:

1) Sober up,
2) then post.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Blind Melon -- No Rain (1993) -- calling Blind Melon a one hit wonder is kind of shaky ethically, since they were largely a one hit wonder because their frontman was an addict and OD'd -- drugs be bad kids. Don't think you're immune, because you're not. In any case their one hit became almost as famous for the strange little bee girl running around in its video as for the song itself.

I think by any air-play criterion it's safe to call Blind Melon a one-hit wonder. I think that their second album, Soup, had a single song ("Galaxie") that got a bit of spin and then it was all over. But, man is Soup good. Phenomenally good. Most-of-the-time-somebody-asks-me-for-my-top-ten-albums-it's-on-there good. So yeah, one hit, but that followed by one seriously solid disc of music. Hoon died leaving behind an infant daughter too. Such a shame.

 

[Spike]

I thought Tones of Home was pretty solid. Top 10, no?

 

[Spike]

Keys to a successful and respected posting career:

1) Sober up,
2) then post.

3) Never let facts get in the way of a good argument?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I thought Tones of Home was pretty solid. Top 10, no?

Huh. It did hit #10 on the "mainstream rock" chart (as opposed to the pop chart). Oddly enough, I don't even remember it being released for radio.

 

[Andre87]

I disagree. The Verve is one of the best brit pop bands of all time. And their 97 album Urban Hymns might be the GOAT brit pop album. I still listen to it like everyday.

 

[Asaf]

Imma let you finish, but The Verve is one of the best brit pop bands of all time.

Fixed.

 

[Kingster]

A lot of people complained about Westphal being "matchup happy". Now there's complaining about not playing Donte because Garcia and Casspi didn't match up well with Toronto. There is a trade off with playing matchups - it hinders continuity and confidence. And then there's the tradeoff of sticking to your lineup - it won't always take advantage of the strengths and weakness of the lineup.

After 30 games, Westphal reached diminishing returns with his matchup approach. It wasn't getting anything from Garcia, Casspi, or Greene. So now Westphal has a lineup, and Greene isn't in it. And you know what? Greene probably could have helped guard Bargnani. He's definitely better than Landry in that department. And he's better than Thompson, at least with respect to guarding Bargnani. But what do you get from him on the offensive end? And rebounding? And what do you lose by taking out a hot Landry, or Garcia or Casspi? Unless those guys are playing pitifully on offense, it's hard to see the pluses of Greene overall.

 

[Kingster]

Regarding Thompson, there's no way I would give a B+ to a guy who got so abused by the 7 foot Bargnani. If you give him an A on offense, an F on defense, you come up with an overall grade of C. Thompson has been a dissapointment at the defensive end of the floor this year. Everybody talks about the 3 as a major need. How about a 4 who can guard people? Maybe that's why Whiteside has been called up...

Also, Dally should get nothing higher than D. His help D was defenseless.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

A lot of people complained about Westphal being "matchup happy". Now there's complaining about not playing Donte because Garcia and Casspi didn't match up well with Toronto. There is a trade off with playing matchups - it hinders continuity and confidence. And then there's the tradeoff of sticking to your lineup - it won't always take advantage of the strengths and weakness of the lineup.

After 30 games, Westphal reached diminishing returns with his matchup approach. It wasn't getting anything from Garcia, Casspi, or Greene. So now Westphal has a lineup, and Greene isn't in it. And you know what? Greene probably could have helped guard Bargnani. He's definitely better than Landry in that department. And he's better than Thompson, at least with respect to guarding Bargnani. But what do you get from him on the offensive end? And rebounding? And what do you lose by taking out a hot Landry, or Garcia or Casspi? Unless those guys are playing pitifully on offense, it's hard to see the pluses of Greene overall.

I can only speak for myself, obviously, but here is my response.

I want a set rotation as much as anyone. I DO complain when we use 12 players most nights. The real issue for me is that we need to be using the right rotation. Not just "a" rotation.

And I think our best rotation has both Casspi and Donte in it. First of all, Cisco isnt a small forward. He is playing hard and making his shots, but thats just not his best position. We have seen him struggle on D almost every game he has started in. Josh Smith killed him, Carmelo could have killed him if he wasnt sleepwalking, and even Linas Kleiza posted him up a few times. I love the way he has fought and competed against those bigger guys, and he has done a good job given the size he's giving up, but cmon Westphal. This guy isnt your starting small forward. Casspi or Donte should be starting. I have no problem with either guy, I like them both as people and players, but one of them needs to start.

I mentioned this before, but I wish Westphal would just play the obvious guys instead of messing around with players who have no real future here.

Beno/Evans/Garcia get all the PG-SG minutes.
Casspi/Greene get all the SF minutes, and spot SG minutes if we go big (Which we need to do more often by the way)
Cousins/Thompson/Landry/Dalembert get all the PF-C minutes.

Its not that complicated. These are the guys who we all had pegged for minutes before the season started, and I dont think we have gone with this rotation for more than 3 or so games all season. Its super frustrating.

 

[SuperPowerMultiPly]

I said it a few times, I think Greene should get stronger and switch to playing as PF, and the lineup should be Cousins, Greene, Casspi, Garcia and Evans, this lineup will be much more balanced in the offense/defense end and the inside perimeter won't be as wide open defensively like when Thompson or Landry are playing.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Taylor has nothing to do with whether Greene should have played or not. Taylor was playing in place of Tyreke at the SG position. Now if you want to say that maybe Greene should have been used on DeRozen at some point, I have no arguement. Something tells me it wouldn't have made much difference though. Most of our problems were team defense related. People not switching or rotating.

Having said all that, I think everyone is overrating Greene's defensive capabilities. Yes he does do impressive things at times. And yes he does miss rotation assignments at times. Greene's biggest problem is that he's not a very good ballhandler, and he's not a very good passer, and he's not a very good decision maker. Now all of these problems for the most part are on the offensive side of the ball. But if anyone wants to take a careful look, the Kings were having just a dickens of a time scoring the ball for a while. The scoring has increased with Greene's absence and the Kings are staying in games more.Casspi is just a better all around player right now. And unless Greene improves his game, Casspi will continue to be the better player.

Casspi: 22 MPG - 9.1 PPG - 42.2% FGA - 4.0 RPG - 0.8 SPG - 41.5% 3PA

Greene: 18.30 MPG - 6.1 PPG - 37.4% FGA - 2.7 RPG - 0.6 SPG - 29.6% 3PA

This is Greene's third year and Casspi's second year. Greene is a terrible rebounder for a guy 6'11". His ballhandling isn't very good and as a result he can't create his own shot. He's a terrible shooter coming off screens, and isn't a very good 3pt shooter. So right now he's a spot defender in the right matchup. But on offense he's a liablilty. Now thats no one's fault but his own. He spent the summer getting fat instead of getting his butt into the gym. he could have gone to the big mans camp and learned how to post up players, but he didn't. He could have spent hours working with someone on his ballhandling, but he didn't.

DeRozen is an example of a guy that did work on his game, and frankly I don't think anyone, except maybe a healthy Tyreke could have guarded him one on one. He was very impressive today. He's a player that you were gambling on because of his athleticism, and it paid off.

So you say that Taylor had nothing to do with Greene not playing or starting and then proceed to compare Greene and Casspi?

Taylor should not have been playing. Period. Casspi should have been inserted into the starting lineup and Greene should have been backing him up. If you wanna argue that Taylor should not have been starting and Casspi should have, then fine, I agree with that. But don't try to compare Casspi and Greene as a way to say that Taylor is what kept Donte off the court. That does not follow logically. Don't make this into a Casspi-Greene thing again. At this point, we all know Casspi is the better player. The real beef is that Taylor started and played more than Donte.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Beno/Evans/Garcia get all the PG-SG minutes.
Casspi/Greene get all the SF minutes, and spot SG minutes if we go big (Which we need to do more often by the way)
Cousins/Thompson/Landry/Dalembert get all the PF-C minutes.

Its not that complicated.

Gee. A nine-man rotation with Jeter, Taylor, Jackson, Whiteside, and Head on the outside looking in unless there's an injury or foul trouble? With Whiteside possibly getting an opportunity for some minutes once an inevitable Landry (or possibly Dalembert) trade happens? Shocking. It's amazing, the crazy, mixed-up random suggestions you can find from crazy, mixed-up, random people on the interwebs. It's a good thing we've got professional coaches paid millions of dollars to "be smart" for us instead of that nonsense. (To head off 1% probability of confusion, please note sarcasm dripping through previous paragraph.)

You know what would be awesome to see? I'll tell you. We should have a game where the fans, via some sort of constantly updating internet poll, determine the lineups on a minute-by-minute basis. Omri getting torched? Fans call for Donte! Tyreke looking sluggish? Fans say get him out! Tyreke's been out three minutes and the team went to hell? Fans say get him back in! Dalembert tries a post move? Fans say benched for the rest of the half! Sorry. I think I'm drooling.

 

[sdballer]

Gee. A nine-man rotation with Jeter, Taylor, Jackson, Whiteside, and Head on the outside looking in unless there's an injury or foul trouble? With Whiteside possibly getting an opportunity for some minutes once an inevitable Landry (or possibly Dalembert) trade happens? Shocking. It's amazing, the crazy, mixed-up random suggestions you can find from crazy, mixed-up, random people on the interwebs. It's a good thing we've got professional coaches paid millions of dollars to "be smart" for us instead of that nonsense. (To head off 1% probability of confusion, please note sarcasm dripping through previous paragraph.)

You know what would be awesome to see? I'll tell you. We should have a game where the fans, via some sort of constantly updating internet poll, determine the lineups on a minute-by-minute basis. Omri getting torched? Fans call for Donte! Tyreke looking sluggish? Fans say get him out! Tyreke's been out three minutes and the team went to hell? Fans say get him back in! Dalembert tries a post move? Fans say benched for the rest of the half! Sorry. I think I'm drooling.

Yet you still find lots of fans on this site claiming Westphal has done a great job with this team. Amazing how different people can watch the same thing with such different conclusions.

 

[pshn80]

Yet you still find lots of fans on this site claiming Westphal has done a great job with this team. Amazing how different people can watch the same thing with such different conclusions.

It is amazing. I wonder if Westphal and his staff of 5 or so don't really understand how good Donte and some of the others are.

 

[Spike]

...was there sarcasm dripping through the second paragraph as well? Cause I'd totally text in a line-up, followed by a favorite song that I want during a 4th quarter time-out. Why does it have to be a song? Can I get Katy Perry's Sesame Street stint with Elmo?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

...was there sarcasm dripping through the second paragraph as well? Cause I'd totally text in a line-up, followed by a favorite song that I want during a 4th quarter time-out. Why does it have to be a song? Can I get Katy Perry's Sesame Street stint with Elmo?

No, that was more or less serious. I mean, it's not like it would ever happen. But it would be the ultimate interactive fan experience. And collective wisdom could probably outdo Westphal's rotations at this point.

 

[sdballer]

It is amazing. I wonder if Westphal and his staff of 5 or so don't really understand how good Donte and some of the others are.

I'm assuming there was sarcasm here. If not, sorry.

But yes, I'm sure the coaching staff has the most time spent with these players of anyone. I also know what we've seen from Greene in his time in the NBA versus what we've seen from Jeter, Jackson, Taylor and Head (not to mention Mason, May, Udoka, etc.). For a young team that is rebuilding and is counting heavily on its youth (developed and otherwise) to lead us back to the promise land, there is NO reason to play some of these guys the minutes they are getting over a player like Greene, none. Add to that how inconsistent the rotations and roles are, and I think there is a very serious coaching issue.

 

[Kingster]

I can only speak for myself, obviously, but here is my response.

I want a set rotation as much as anyone. I DO complain when we use 12 players most nights. The real issue for me is that we need to be using the right rotation. Not just "a" rotation.

And I think our best rotation has both Casspi and Donte in it. First of all, Cisco isnt a small forward. He is playing hard and making his shots, but thats just not his best position. We have seen him struggle on D almost every game he has started in. Josh Smith killed him, Carmelo could have killed him if he wasnt sleepwalking, and even Linas Kleiza posted him up a few times. I love the way he has fought and competed against those bigger guys, and he has done a good job given the size he's giving up, but cmon Westphal. This guy isnt your starting small forward. Casspi or Donte should be starting. I have no problem with either guy, I like them both as people and players, but one of them needs to start.

I mentioned this before, but I wish Westphal would just play the obvious guys instead of messing around with players who have no real future here.

Beno/Evans/Garcia get all the PG-SG minutes.
Casspi/Greene get all the SF minutes, and spot SG minutes if we go big (Which we need to do more often by the way)
Cousins/Thompson/Landry/Dalembert get all the PF-C minutes.

Its not that complicated. These are the guys who we all had pegged for minutes before the season started, and I dont think we have gone with this rotation for more than 3 or so games all season. Its super frustrating.

I just think that Cisco is a grade above Donte, after you factor both offense and defense into the equation. I'd rather have a smallish quicker guy guarding the 3s than a bigger slower guy guarding the 2s, so I really think the 3 is Cisco's best position. I don't disagree about Carmelo and other 3s that are bigger, but if you want continuity, then you have to figure out who is the better player overall, and Cisco is the guy in my view. You also have to look and see how poorly Cisco is off the bench. Casspi seems to have done pretty well of the bench, so that's a good thing.

As far as Donte is concerned, I think he's been given a lot of pt to show what he could do. And he didn't do it. I'm going to be surprised if Donte is with the Kings a year from now. Donte seems like a classic tweener. He doesn't have the ball-handling skills or quickness to be a good 3; he's really not big enough to handle the 4s on defense. He's almost the mirror image of Garcia in that way, except he's younger. So maybe one day Donte can become a "Garcia" as he matures. That doesn't get me warm and fuzzy about his long term future with the Kings.

 

[Kingsguy881]

A lot of people complained about Westphal being "matchup happy". Now there's complaining about not playing Donte because Garcia and Casspi didn't match up well with Toronto. There is a trade off with playing matchups - it hinders continuity and confidence. And then there's the tradeoff of sticking to your lineup - it won't always take advantage of the strengths and weakness of the lineup.

After 30 games, Westphal reached diminishing returns with his matchup approach. It wasn't getting anything from Garcia, Casspi, or Greene. So now Westphal has a lineup, and Greene isn't in it. And you know what? Greene probably could have helped guard Bargnani. He's definitely better than Landry in that department. And he's better than Thompson, at least with respect to guarding Bargnani. But what do you get from him on the offensive end? And rebounding? And what do you lose by taking out a hot Landry, or Garcia or Casspi? Unless those guys are playing pitifully on offense, it's hard to see the pluses of Greene overall.

So letting Bargnani go off for 30 instead of limiting his open looks and holding him to 16 pts would not have made a difference? Lol, you guys are FUNNY.