[Grades] Grades v. Pacers 3/25/11

Kings Player of the Game?

  • Cisco

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cousins

    Votes: 36 94.7%
  • Dalembert

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Donte

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • Reke

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Total voters
    38

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
We were just too big for them. All those years of Kenny Thomas and Shareef, and Corliss and etc. etc. -- its been a long wait to be able to make that statement.

Now we are beginning to throw out an explosive backourt AND a giant frontcourt, and at a certain point its going to start resulting in wins, and a lot of them. We need more season now. And these developments make me even more nervous about a potential move disrutping things, a potential lockout disrupting things, and a potential coaching change after Westphal has finally discovered and settled on a very effective power pairing of Cousins and Daly.


Official Boxscore


Garcia ( A- ) -- turned in a strong game, maybe stronger than the numbers, that looked like it might not happen after he left after a wrist injury early...although as usual with Cisco the "injury" deserves some quotes around it. My dad indoctrinated me early on in life into old school male machismo where you show no pain and play through it with gritted teeth. Cisco appears to have been taught somewhat different lessons. Joke was that it took forever for a trainer to look at it -- minutes even. Classic effects of boy who cried wolf syndrome. In any case a few minutes after Cisco's great agony he was back and showing no ill effects. Was not hitting his jumpers early but was getting to the hoop and racking up layups. Nice help block on Hibbert too to save a hoop, and was showing quick hands on defense all night long on his way ot a 5stl 3blk night. Working hard on defense vs. Granger, and for 2 1/2 quarters had done a nice job. But lost his head in the 3rd, and the aftereffects had us in danger. Picked up a tehcnical in the midquarter after the officials blew a sideline call (the officials blew a number of close calls against us tonight). Cisco's reaction was bad enough he looked in danfer of being thrown out and we had to pull him. And as we lost our composure, the Indy crowd got into it, Granger and Collison fed of it and went off on runs, and outr big lead got shaved all the way to 9 at one point. Not sure if Cisco could have done anything about Granger's run if he had been in -- Granger hit three long jumpers over Donte that were well contested, and got fouled on a three when Donte got bumped into him -- but he was not there to try. After we got things stabilized (Reke in particular), Cisco returned to drain a long three out of a timeout in the early 4th to make the lead 21 again. Got in oppositon and took an open court charge, but while minutes were somewhat limited due to foul trouble, actually ended up getting to play the final 3 minutes of this one as a "power" forward as we went super-tiny three guards and a swingman to coutner Indy's desperation late game press.

Cousins ( A ) -- strong active start with several offensive follows on the offenisve glass, a pass leading the break, and a blocked shot. Dominating the glass early, but has to know who his opponents are -- when you are 6'11" 280lbs you take Hansbrough inside, not face him up. In the second quarter made a spectacular play on the offensive boards, holding off Foster I think it was with one arm, snatching an o-reb with the other, and going up for the finish with a dunk. Strength, hands all on full display there. Dominant toward the end of the half with some special plays flashing the whole package -- spectacular hustle board out near the three point line and all in one motion rifled a pass over his shoulder to Dalembert inside, who dropped it to Thornton for his only hit of the half. Then rifled another one inside to JT. Took severwl good charges throughout the game. Figured out thye post thing after half as he used stong post moves over both Foster and Hansbrough. Then a long jumepr. Couple of almost spetacular drives down the stretch that just rolled off as he maybe started getting a little sloppy mentally. With us not handling the Pacers press well, was actually subbed out for the final few minutes in favor of Jeter -- a full 1ft substitution you don't see very often. Very strong game across the board dominating the Pacers. Should be noted BTW that much like the Reke situation in the backcourt, this was one of those games where having Daly paired wiht him really helped free him up -- he sometimes has problems against extreme size/length, and yet Hibbert was occupied with Daly and rarely matched on Cousins.

Dalembert ( B+ ) -- struggles inside early trying to score over the bigger Hibbert, but gave his normal contributions on the baords and defense. You can just see he and Cousins really developing some swagger out there together -- can see the belief in each other. Its not just chemistry, its high fiving yeah we bad confidence. Again I say keeping them together could be a huge key going forward. Twin Towers teams are hard to match up with, as Indiana found out tonight. Played real well in the 2nd, but picked up back to back fouls trying to sotp big Hibbert again near the end of the half -- one of the few times we've seen Daly visibly struggle against a guy's size. Cousins sometimes does, but Daly is very long and has been around a long time and normally matches upn very well. Hibbert however is 7'2" and jsut as long. Was contributing well after the break -- notice the double double in only 25min, and was resorting to quick turnarounds in the post off the catch before Hibbert could react. On one of them along the baseline on a Beno feed, he took the ball up so quickly off the catch that he never even looked at the hoop until the ball was leaving his hand. Amazing little shot really to have that good a feel for where you are, with no backboard, no look at the rim, and having to get it up extra quick. Sat for the entire stretch run as Indy went small, and of course inevitably so did Westphal. He was strong and steady thoguh, and might have been useful to have when we were losing our composure in the final minutes.

Thronton ( C- ) -- the obvious opening question if you did not watch the game and only saw the boxscore, would be were Marcu's struggles somehow related to Reke's return? And the answere would be not at all. He played perahps less than 10 minutes alongise Reke, and was already something like 0-7 from the field before Reke even checked in. Just had one of those games. And how. Was off both inside and out, missing things he normally does not miss, and forcing a few into the teeth of the Indy defense. Started th game 0-9. 0-9! And only finally got his first and only basket of the first half off a tremendous scramble play effort by Cousins, to Daly then dropped off to Marcus for the layup. And yet despite the extreme struggles we were still up 18 at half. One thing he was doing, and continued to do all game, was hit the glass hard. We kind of lost control of the boards for a stretch after half, but we absolutely dominated the glass in the first half and won the gamelong war, and after our three bigs Marcus was the critical little guy providing support. Offensive struggles continued into the 3rd, but after picking up a bogus technical for swinging his elbows on a board, maybe it made him mad. He came back to hit his first jumepr of the game, made a beautiful pass on the break at fullspeed to Donte for an alley oop, then dropped a three. Still was not scorchign, but definitely came to life. Did not respond to the Pacers pressure late in the 4th with composure and made several bad passes while looking shaky. But made a couple of good plays down the stretch as we closed them out, poking balls away and leading the break.

Udrih ( B- ) -- I have relatively few notes on Beno as he stepped back again with Reke returning and the frontcourt rekeing (get it? rekeing? Ha!) havoc. Nothing much in the early going before being replaced by Reke as we tried Reke/Thornton first. After returning for his own stint alongside the new guy, immediately drained a three on a nice Reke kickout. Missed one of his little jumpers to start the third and started to lose control of Collison as the Pacers cut into the lead. Was steady enoguh down the stretch as we started to get tight again, but his own steadiness did not seem to bleed over to the rest of the team. I was almost tempted to C+ this, the numbers were right on his season averages and on the effieicnet side, but you just barely noticed him. Not bad, just churchmouse quiet.


Bench

Greene ( B+ ) -- staying right with Granger on defense, and drained a three on a Reke kickout as soon as Reke came in -- one of the interesting factors in the keep Greene or let him go debate this summer is that he is one of the guys who works realy well with Reke. Kept on hitting as he was in can't miss mode again early...until throwing up a heat check prayer that hasd no hope. After returning in the third had Granger hit 3 long jumpers over him, then fouled him shooting a three. But thing was that on none of those plays did e play bad defense. He was right there challenging (and got bumped him Granger for the foul), guy juat got hot. Responded wiht several more hoops of his own working with Reke again -- following a Reke miss on the break, and knocking down another three off the drive and kick. There is synergy there. How's another 15pt in 18min night for the man who can not shoot straight strike you. Strikes me just fine.

Thompson ( B- ) -- the "other big" for most of the evening, but provided just what you need from an "other big", keeping up our strong boardwork, being efficient, and minimizing dropoff when the starters went to the bench. Got a dunk from Evans to start the 4th (JT is one of the other guys who notably works well with Reke), and would play well enoguh that in the final minutes, as we went 4 little guys 1 big guy to counter the Pacers press, it was JT, not Cousins, not Daly, who got the call to play that big role. A biut slow/overwhlemed on a couple of rebounds while he was in there all alone, but in general held down the fort enough for us to pull away again.

Reke ( B+ ) -- into the game and immediately with a little half drive and kick to Donte for a three as this game would be defined by Reke's extreme effectiveness as a passer. You could see some rust on his shot, but he hit Greene, then Jackson with a laser, then a slashing Cisco, then Beno for a three, and was just making it look easy on his way to 5 first half assists in about 10 minutes. Finally got the offense going with a +1 ont he break. Bad pass turnover up top after returning in the third, but would play a pivotal role in staving off another collapse, as with the lead cut all the way to 9 he came out of the timeout, posted Collison, and saavily drew the +1 using his size. Followed that with another dish to Greene for a three, and then another good pass to Daly , who got fouled and pushed the lead out again going into the 4th. For punctuation added an 8th assist to JT for the dunk to begin the 4th quarter. Maybe not quite what you expected, but a real nice return to action.

Jackson ( INC ) -- in just long enough in the 2nd quarter to have Grant & Jerry gush about him I am sure. Looked good, took a sharp pass from Reke and dunked it home, and his minutes seemed more limited by all the other bigs' strong games than anything he himself did wrong.

Jeter ( INC ) -- in for the very first time with 3:30 to go and us staggering against the Pacers press. Gave us 3 ballhandling guards and made all the difference, althoguh Pooh himself did little, missing his shots and havin his primary value just be as another competente ballhandled to help bring it up, and who made an unappealing target to foul.
 
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#3
I hate to add bit of a downer after this great wire-to-wire road win by OUR KINGS. But did anyone catch early in the game when Grant said Jerry had just sat down with Pacers GM Larry Bird for a long 1.5 hour talk? Then he said, but Jerry could not reveal what was discussed with a sort of snicker like maybe it was about some aspect of Kings possible move - no big deal about that - but... maybe Reynolds hailing from Bird's hometown of French Lick, Indiana might soon be looking for another job. Then to top off their little inside joke, Jerry said talk about the secret part was more like an hour of their 1.5 hour chat. It all remains very depressing reading the tea leaves.
 
#6
I think that more and more, the positions we need to upgrade are SF and PG. Looks like our front court is set with JT, Dally, and DMC - with Whiteside getting some minutes (and if JT is traded for a better PF then fine)

But I hope improving the PG and SF positions will be GP's priorities this off-season (no matter how long it is)
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#7
I like the Cuz/Dally/JT lineup.

I've always thought JT could be a great 3rd big. People hate on him, but they have to lower their standards a bit. He'll never be an allstar, but if he can ever get comfortable there is no reason why he cant give us 10/8/1 off the bench.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#8
I like the Cuz/Dally/JT lineup.

I've always thought JT could be a great 3rd big. People hate on him, but they have to lower their standards a bit. He'll never be an allstar, but if he can ever get comfortable there is no reason why he cant give us 10/8/1 off the bench.
And that would be fantastic off the bench.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#9
Realistic too.

Well, maybe not the 10ppg. As the Kings get more legit options on offense, JT is going to get less opportunities to blow layups. I still think the dude could hover around 8ppg off of garbage points and FTs from his activity around the basket.
 
#10
JT might never be a good post defender, but I love the way he moves and defends the pick and roll.
With Beno and Thornton in the backcourt, his overall defensive value gets a slight tick up.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#11
This was just a beautiful game to watch from start to finish. Yes, Indy missed a lot of open looks but we did a good job in capitalizing on the offensive end and scoring almost at will. Our duo of big men was phenomenal and even JT came off the bench and did his usual thing. Having Tyreke back was a great sigh to see and he didn't try to do too much scoring right away which was good, this team has enough scorers on most nights. Imagine if we can have Reke average between 16-18, Cousins with 15-17 and Thornton 15+, we would win A LOT of games! I hope this momentum carries over to Philly because the Kings better remember what they did to them at home so I'm expecting a hard fought game.
 
#12
I like the Cuz/Dally/JT lineup.

I've always thought JT could be a great 3rd big. People hate on him, but they have to lower their standards a bit. He'll never be an allstar, but if he can ever get comfortable there is no reason why he cant give us 10/8/1 off the bench.
The big thing with JT is that he's stopped fouling every 5 seconds and he's started being able to finish around the basket. In the past he would rack up rebounds by missing and putting back his shot every time he'd try and score. Now he's muscling for rebounds and finishing at the hoop. Great bench player for our team. Not the starter I envisioned him in but I also didn't think we'd ever have a great PF and C like we do now.
 
#13
18-14-5 for Boogie. Get used to those kind of stats. I liked heard Tyreke was good too. How did Thornton and Tyreke play together? I saw Thornton was 1-10 at the half but did it have anything to do with the pairing?
 
#15
I like the Cuz/Dally/JT lineup.

I've always thought JT could be a great 3rd big. People hate on him, but they have to lower their standards a bit. He'll never be an allstar, but if he can ever get comfortable there is no reason why he cant give us 10/8/1 off the bench.
I'm with you on this JT observation. He makes clumsy mistakes but I want him on my team as No. 3 big man.
 
#16
This was just a beautiful game to watch from start to finish. Yes, Indy missed a lot of open looks but we did a good job in capitalizing on the offensive end and scoring almost at will. Our duo of big men was phenomenal and even JT came off the bench and did his usual thing. Having Tyreke back was a great sigh to see and he didn't try to do too much scoring right away which was good, this team has enough scorers on most nights. Imagine if we can have Reke average between 16-18, Cousins with 15-17 and Thornton 15+, we would win A LOT of games! I hope this momentum carries over to Philly because the Kings better remember what they did to them at home so I'm expecting a hard fought game.
But if you don't have Beno playing his major minutes you can discount all those stats. We will continue to need Beno's play to have any consistent success.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#17
But if you don't have Beno playing his major minutes you can discount all those stats. We will continue to need Beno's play to have any consistent success.

I doubt he is going to be nearly that important in the future -- the team is going to win big or not based on how Reke + Marcus + Daly + Cousins + a mystery defensive stopper at SF mesh. In particular how Reke and Cousins function as the two Shaq/Kobe pilars fo the offense (not saying they are as good, just that they play similar positions and will be making most of the decisions). But I could see Beno still helping as a bench anchor and even a bit of a change of pace type player given his more traditional PG game than either of the starters.

Its easy and traditional to underesstimate how important Beno has been as a steadying force in the backcourt the last few seasons But its also just as easy to confuse his importance now wiht his imprtance in the future. Beno has always been a transitional form. Steady you while you are young and weak, but a guy who will need to step back and take a smaller role in order for you to really get good eventually. Like JT as a third big though, while he may not be a champsionship starter, make him a bencher and he compares facorably to the vast amjority of thrid guards around the league.
 
#18
I doubt he is going to be nearly that important in the future -- the team is going to win big or not based on how Reke + Marcus + Daly + Cousins + a mystery defensive stopper at SF mesh. In particular how Reke and Cousins function as the two Shaq/Kobe pilars fo the offense (not saying they are as good, just that they play similar positions and will be making most of the decisions). But I could see Beno still helping as a bench anchor and even a bit of a change of pace type player given his more traditional PG game than either of the starters.

Its easy and traditional to underesstimate how important Beno has been as a steadying force in the backcourt the last few seasons But its also just as easy to confuse his importance now wiht his imprtance in the future. Beno has always been a transitional form. Steady you while you are young and weak, but a guy who will need to step back and take a smaller role in order for you to really get good eventually. Like JT as a third big though, while he may not be a champsionship starter, make him a bencher and he compares facorably to the vast amjority of thrid guards around the league.
He does however, serve as a good player who can get his points without dominating the ball. I think he would be an excellent guard off the bench.
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#19
A great game to watch especially two 10-point come backs when Pacers made their runs. Team play like that is stimulating ball with Cousins-Dalembert dominating and JT doing so well off the bench. Beno didn't have the ststs but kept the team moving and passing throughout. And Thornton coming alive in second was icing on the Winners cake. "A" grades to the bigs and Cisco and "B" to the rest. The 27 assists was the big stat followed by domination on the boards.
 
#20
He does however, serve as a good player who can get his points without dominating the ball. I think he would be an excellent guard off the bench.
That's exactly what Coach Pop thought Beno should and would be for the Spurs. In the end, he felt Udrih was too much of a late night partier - maybe failing to keep up with Tony Parker's scoring in more ways than one. Eventually, Parker landed the beautiful Eva (now divorced) and Beno settled in with his beautiful Michelle - soon to marry her I heard. Anybody have a pic of Michelle? I saw her at Kings games a few times over past couple of seasons and with him out and about once downtown. Really striking couple - so best of luck Beno. You the man!
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#21
For a team with so few wins, it's noteworthy how much comraderie there is on this team. The entire team was into it. Guys cheering for each other every step of the way. Very nice to see.

Tyreke played a very smart game, racking up a lot of nice assists. Seemed to be saying, we don't need no Irving, we got Tyreke. It happens quite often that an injury to a player can give him a different perspective on the game, watching on TV or from the bench. It seems like that happened with Tyreke. He wasn't forcing things at all; just let the game come to him. Hopefully, that continues.
 
#22
How much relief could it be for a young man who feels like he has to carry the offense on a team to step back and see cousins marcus and dally step up when he is out. If he comes back trusting his team mates on the offensive end he will have a much cleaner well rounded game he is still the threat off the dribble but he can feel much more comfortable knowing that Cousins can get a good look on most any big one on one and passes to bigs or to the perimeter are not now just going to be turnovers. He can play as part of a team and know his team mates are also.

This season I was happy to get Dally I figured he would be a good defensive mentor to both Cousins and Whiteside but I expected no offense aside from putbacks out of him. Color me impressed. If there is a way to convince him this team with minor tweaks will be a playoff team next year and a contender very soon after and to come back for slightly less money you have to pull the trigger.

Fun game to watch good to see Donte working again and the front line beast like we expected. The team on this road trip was the team I expected to see this year I say finish out strong resign the 2 players that we need to build on with our other pieces and get people talking about our future and not about the arena.
 
#23
I really hope this is how Tyreke starts playing. Look for the open man first, shot second. When he starts racking up assists, teams with defend him differently. Thats when he can start scoring again. He'll be tough to guard and should be able to put up 18ppg and 8ast with fewer turnovers from forcing the offense.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#24
I really hope this is how Tyreke starts playing. Look for the open man first, shot second. When he starts racking up assists, teams with defend him differently. Thats when he can start scoring again. He'll be tough to guard and should be able to put up 18ppg and 8ast with fewer turnovers from forcing the offense.
That's just never going to be his game, nor really should it be. But what he displayed tongiht was what COULD be part of his game, which is an advanced understanding of how to use all the attention he draws because he is such a threat. We've seen flashes of that in the past. Tonight was jsut a step forward further. If teams want to send extra defenderes at him, and his response is to quickly find the men left open...well its the same thing Cousins is starting to do, and when your two top weapons can do that you can become very very dangerous. Combined with Thornton's likely presence in the lineup you really begin to put teams between a rock and a hard place. We need to double these guys...but we can't.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#25
I really hope this is how Tyreke starts playing. Look for the open man first, shot second. When he starts racking up assists, teams with defend him differently. Thats when he can start scoring again. He'll be tough to guard and should be able to put up 18ppg and 8ast with fewer turnovers from forcing the offense.
We now have two parts of our team that are difficult to defend, the guards and the bigs. Who do you double? I love it. Thornton has been that missing piece that individually can score and defend but also changes what the other team can do and that is what Reke likes. :)

As to Reke, if he gives up his offense to be a pass first PG, I'll hurl.

----------------


Ooooops, Brick just said something similar. I'll then add that teams may be forced to play us straight up. That is an evolution of the team that is huge.
 
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#26
I doubt he is going to be nearly that important in the future -- the team is going to win big or not based on how Reke + Marcus + Daly + Cousins + a mystery defensive stopper at SF mesh. In particular how Reke and Cousins function as the two Shaq/Kobe pilars fo the offense (not saying they are as good, just that they play similar positions and will be making most of the decisions). But I could see Beno still helping as a bench anchor and even a bit of a change of pace type player given his more traditional PG game than either of the starters.

Its easy and traditional to underesstimate how important Beno has been as a steadying force in the backcourt the last few seasons But its also just as easy to confuse his importance now wiht his imprtance in the future. Beno has always been a transitional form. Steady you while you are young and weak, but a guy who will need to step back and take a smaller role in order for you to really get good eventually. Like JT as a third big though, while he may not be a champsionship starter, make him a bencher and he compares facorably to the vast amjority of thrid guards around the league.
You have a good point but I see us too far away from that moment. Beno needs to play a significant role as he has this year, for the next season for sure and I think even longer. I think that reflects my reservations about giving the keys to the car to Evans/Cousins/Thornton dynasty. I don't doubt their greatness but I fear it is farther away than you comments imply.