Grades v. Nuggets 11/09

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I assume that when you say "GREAT" you are talking about superstar players. There are only about 4-5 of those in the league, which Peja is clearly not a part of. We're here debating whether Peja is a star ("great") or a bench player (at least without his shooting) according to you.

And I'll say it again: bench player, without the shot.

In fact, if it weren't for Divac and Christie making him look like an All-Star for six years, he might have never risen out of "Steve Kerr" territory. Because, even with his shot, he's only a little better than Wally Szczerbiak, all things being equal.

 

[bozzwell]

No, the sample is not too small; the statement was made, in a thread that has since been locked, that Stojakovic has been the best player on the Kings this season-to-date, "without a doubt." I responded by saying that Stojakovic has only been the third-best player on the Kings this season-to-date, and sloter then challenged me in this thread (the other having been locked) to name two players that have been better.

I named two, and stated why. In other words, within the context of the question, the sample size is not too small.


Sooo... I guess that the point is: make sure that you're up to speed on a conversation before you decide to put your two cents in.

OK, that makes sense - I am glad that I asked/butted in. You two can continue your petty little argument.

 

[Stojakovic]

Wally is a good player, but I don't think he's as capable on offense as Peja is. Peja is better at pretty much everything than Wally...but that is a pretty good comparison.

 

[Bricklayer]

11:23 PM and still a placeholder?

I supposed it is difficult to grade NINE FOURTH QUARTER POINTS.

Keep getting distracted trying to moderate the board simultaneously.

 

[VF21]

I'm here...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Wally is a good player, but I don't think he's as capable on offense as Peja is. Peja is better at pretty much everything than Wally...but that is a pretty good comparison.

Oh really?

Stojakovic has put up career averages of 18.4ppg, on 46% shooting and 39.9% 3-pt FG shooting, to go along with 4.9rpg, 2.0apg, 1.0spg, 0.1bpg and 1.61TO.

Compared to:

Szczerbiak's career averages of 15.0ppg on 50% shooting and 39.8% 3-pt FG shooting, to go along with 4.4rpg, 2.7apg, 0.7spg, 0.2bpg and 1.63 TO.


So, I'm hoping that by "better at pretty much everything," you actually meant, "scores a few more points," or perhaps "frighteningly similar."

 

[Yoda]

Oh really?

Stojakovic has put up career averages of 18.4ppg, on 46% shooting and 39.9% 3-pt FG shooting, to go along with 4.9rpg, 2.0apg, 1.0spg, 0.1bpg and 1.61TO.

Compared to:

Szczerbiak's career averages of 15.0ppg on 50% shooting and 39.8% 3-pt FG shooting, to go along with 4.4rpg, 2.7apg, 0.7spg, 0.2bpg and 1.63 TO.


So, I'm hoping that by "better at pretty much everything," you actually meant, "scores a few more points," or perhaps "frighteningly similar."

Wally will even dunk and play with passion, in the fourth quarter no less.

 

[Stojakovic]

Ok...so you are now telling me that Stojakovic = Sczerbiak.

I don't think there is a single GM out there that will agree with you. Sczerbiak's best season (by far actually) came when he averaged 18.7 points a game. Otherwise, he wasn't even close to approaching the 20 ppg mark. Peja has had several 20 ppg seasons, including a 24.2 ppg season where he was often named as one of the MVP's of the season.

The stats are also a little misleading because Sczerbiak was immediately given a starting spot on the Wolves upon coming into the NBA, while Peja was a bench player. Stojakovic probably overall averages something like 21 ppg, while Sczerbiak is probably around 15-16. That is a BIG difference.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

What I'm saying is that scoring isn't the end-all/be-all, and if you disregard their respective per-game scoring averages, the two players are virtually identical otherwise... And, if you go strictly by the numbers, Szczerbiak is a better shooter.

 

[Stojakovic]

What I'm saying is that scoring isn't the end-all/be-all

With these two, it certainly is. They hardly contribute anything else worth mentioning.

 

[AleksandarN]

Come on guys have we really resorted to this. Man losing sucks

 

[VF21]

At least they're not heaving chunks of feces at either other, Aleksandar...



I think it's therapeutic.

 

[Stojakovic]

Come on guys have we really resorted to this. Man losing sucks

Nothing wrong with arguing. That's what this forum is for. I may not agree with everything Citrus' says, but I respect it and that's the base of keeping the discussion on a civilized level.

 

[Peja]

I can't believe that after every defeat,every thread is turning into "Peja sucks" theme.
We already noticed that Peja should play harder,better and he wasn't so bad last night.But where are the others?Where is the team and the coach.Can Peja play alone against the other team.No,of course not.
I am just sick of turning every thread about lost game into "Peja sucks"...

 

[nbrans]

I wouldn't really consider this game an example of Peja disappearing in the 4th quarter just because he didin't score points. The Nuggets made a concerted defensive effort to get the ball out of his hands. It was up to the rest of the team to take advantage of the fact that the Nuggets were focusing their defense on Peja and slacking off other people. But that didn't happen. The ball movement dried up, there were some turnovers and that was that. Peja was shouldering the offensive load the whole game and once he wasn't scoring points everything dried up.

If you're going to criticize Peja for disappearing in the 4th you should have some similar scorn for the Kings' supposedly "clutch" point guard who has not taken control down the stretch -- or really for any extended period of time.

Also, have to say that this was one of the worst officiated games I've ever seen -- both ways.

 

[playmaker0017]

What you're basically saying is, take away Peja's offense and he wouldn't be starting anywhere. The same thing can be applied to a lot of GREAT players in this league.

I know this evolved, but his first comment is suprisingly true.

He can't create a shot. He can't score inside. He hits uncontested jumpers. He's had the benefit of being in a system and with players that don't force him to exploit his weaknesses.

He has the uncontested 3, which he hits REALLY well. He disappears once there is token defense, which is why he's terrible in the 4th.

He's a streaky jump shooter. I found it laughable that someone said in another thread: "OH MAN! Peja definitely has his stroke back!" Yet the same thing was said two nights before and then he went under 30% and even this game was 8-18, which is pretty average.

But, there is no question - at this point Peja is the 3rd best King and the least consistant of the bunch.

 

[burekijogurt]

He's had the benefit of being in a system and with players that don't force him to exploit his weaknesses.

I would hope that your coach and teammates would not go with the game plan that exposes your weaknesses .


By the way, Peja played well in the 4th. He had several setups where the guy was completely open or had a layup or was fouled but those shots, layups, and free throws were missed. After that he took some bad shots himself and missed. It seemed to me he was the best player in the 4th (at least on offense).

 

[starks]

And I'll say it again: bench player, without the shot.

In fact, if it weren't for Divac and Christie making him look like an All-Star for six years, he might have never risen out of "Steve Kerr" territory. Because, even with his shot, he's only a little better than Wally Szczerbiak, all things being equal.

reggie miller...without shot bech player too?
ray allen....without the shot bech player?
or ben wallace without rebounding is NBDL player?
what is your point?
shootng skills are overrated or what?....

BTW. kings' bench sucks and that is the problem.....and C+ for KT is too high...

 

[playmaker0017]

reggie miller...without shot bech player too?
ray allen....without the shot bech player?
or ben wallace without rebounding is NBDL player?
what is your point?
shootng skills are overrated or what?....

Well, I think what he means is without having an unnaturally gifted shot, he'd be a bench player.

He doesn't do anything else.

If he were an average shooter, he'd be benched.

For instance, Ray Allen doesn't get enough respect for driving to the hoop and having a relatively high basketball IQ. He'd still be playing if he had a mediocre jump shot.

 

[civija]

Just remember that basketball is a team game. Each player has a role and for the team to be succesfull the individuals must play the role assigned to them. The team is not doing well at the moment. What has changed since Divac/Webber, DC, Bibby and Peja were statistically the best 5 man unit in the game?

Blaming one player (oddly enough the guy who brings in the most points) afer each bad game is a little silly.

The sad fact is that this team is one "Big Country" away from being the Vancouver Grizzlies. Maybe if Peja is traded we could get Reeves and just have done with it.

 

[TXSactoFan]

peja needs to show up more in games...

but this particular game, this wasnt like his dissapearance against phoenix.. like someone said he setup a couple of open shots.... we insisted on forcing the ball to him and not doing much of anything else...