[Grades] Grades v. Nets 12/29/2014

[pshn80]

The top four teams in terms of pace last season were Philadelphia, the Lakers, Denver and Minnesota. The Spurs and the Kings played at nearly the same pace LAST year. The Warriors are the top team in terms of pace this season but they also lead the league in effective FG%. The Kings are 19th.

Right now I don't see how they even get back to being as good as they were under Malone. And even if they do, how many games will they have lost trying to get back to a level that they were already at. That's throwing away a season for what? A different style of play? Why on earth would you not wait until the offseason?

Everyone who is preaching patience and faith in the front office is essentially saying "there MUST be a plan". That's a leap of faith I don't have in me as a fan right now. Right now I see a worse team, playing worse defense and trying to push the pace with a roster whose best players operate best in the half court and whose franchise player is looking completely frustrated and disheartened. If the team is so confident in their plan then why haven't we heard a peep out of D'Alessandro as the fans continue to complain?

There must be a plan, there will be a plan, the plan will be changed as necessary. Ownership is not walking out on current problems. This is not private enterprise it is common sense. You actually belief ownership and management is gone until 2016.

In the meantime we each have to deal with it the best we can.

 

[kupman]

Kupman:

How much longer before you deem something a success?

Probably more than 2 weeks.

However long it is for me, it is probably much shorter for Vivek. He demands improvement and slow improvement does not appear to cut it for him. If something does not work, he will be the first to scratch it and move-on.

The dude is very aggressive about getting a superior product on the court. He gets things done. The ride might be scary and there could be some crashes along the way, but he does not seem to wait on things much.

I have chosen to strap myself in and enjoy the ride.

 

[funkykingston]

There must be a plan, there will be a plan, the plan will be changed as necessary. Ownership is not walking out on current problems. This is not private enterprise it is common sense. You actually belief ownership and management is gone until 2016.

In the meantime we each have to deal with it the best we can.

Oh I believe they THINK they have a plan.

Reports are that Vivek tried hard to convince Mullin to coach and he was reticent to jump in midseason. Couple that with apparently no interest in hiring George Karl and I think the plan is to let Corbin finish the season and barring a miracle turnaround, replace him with Chris Mullin, who has ZERO coaching experience on the college or NBA level.

I don't think they are going to stop making moves. I just worry that they will be horrible, franchise crippling moves. The kind that cost you the best big man in the NBA.

 

[kingjatt]

Marc J. Spears@SpearsNBAYahoo1 hour ago
Kings say notion of 4-of-5 play vs Nets is false & Evans mistakenly sat on bench after thinking Cousins was in before rushing back on floor.


Surrreeeeeeee.

 

[rainmaker]

2 things are apparent from your post:

1) You have decided that this move is a "failure" before even giving it a chance.

2) Vivek and PDA have higher standards for the product than you. They demand better than a coach who delivers a 28 win season and blown 20 point leads.

1) I don't need to give it a chance a year from now as you surmise. Vivek stated this would make us better now, not later and this move, with Corbin leading us would win more this season than it did under Malone, and end with us in the 2014-15 playoffs, not some unspecified future date you're clinging to.

2) No they don't actually and that's quite a weak, illogical argument on your part which barely deserves a response. My expectation was to continue on the best start in the last decade with a starting five which was one of the top defensive teams in the league, which pounded teams inside and drew FT's at a league leading rate, to continue the march towards at least .500 ball in the stacked Western Conference.

It doesn't even appear as if you recognize what's going on, what's been said publicly and think that Corbin has actually improved the product, which of course is asinine. Your foolish point immediately falls apart when you claim they demand a better coach, then go out and replace Malone with one who didn't win in Utah, isn't winning now here and has the locker room starting to disintegrate while our defense falls apart. Then for you to argue it's about next year ignores the statements coming directly from our owner after Malone's firing.

 

[VF21]

Surprisingly, the fact that this is as united kingsfans.com has ever been should be pretty telling. It isn't even 50/50 - it's like 98/2.

There's something very Orwellian about the FO right now. I'd rather oppose the moves now, than happily hum all the way to the glue farm.

When posters who NEVER agree are suddenly on the same page, there's a message there.

 

[VF21]

Marc J. Spears@SpearsNBAYahoo1 hour ago
Kings say notion of 4-of-5 play vs Nets is false & Evans mistakenly sat on bench after thinking Cousins was in before rushing back on floor.


Surrreeeeeeee.

What's funny is that some Kings fans have become so jaded they didn't realize the gallows humor being used when the first 4 on 5 comments were posted. If you watched the game, it was pretty clear it was a mistake. Evans saw Cousins go to the scorer's table to check in and headed for the bench. He (Evans) didn't realize the officials hadn't let Cousins come in until he was sitting down. He even yelled "I thought you were in" to Cousins, who replied "They wouldn't let me." Reggie isn't a good enough actor to pull off the guile required to actually do a fake play like that.

 

[Hoovtrain]

When posters who NEVER agree are suddenly on the same page, there's a message there.

Yes, all of this agreeing with one another is making me very uncomfortable.

 

[pshn80]

Oh I believe they THINK they have a plan.

Reports are that Vivek tried hard to convince Mullin to coach and he was reticent to jump in midseason. Couple that with apparently no interest in hiring George Karl and I think the plan is to let Corbin finish the season and barring a miracle turnaround, replace him with Chris Mullin, who has ZERO coaching experience on the college or NBA level.

I don't think they are going to stop making moves. I just worry that they will be horrible, franchise crippling moves. The kind that cost you the best big man in the NBA.

'Tis a worry. Anything we can do? The mention of Grangers name somewhere today heartened me at least briefly. I hope he can help Vivek go in the right direction. Also, I would think what's-his-name, Stern's replacement would help keep Vivek from going too wrong. Our best brains on here have repeatedly done a good job of laying out the problems. I can't believe Vivek doesn't at least have an intern reading everything and keeping him apprised. Also ticket sales and season ticket sales for next season which begin in January should get some attention. A barometer.

 

[Glenn]

Marc J. Spears@SpearsNBAYahoo1 hour ago
Kings say notion of 4-of-5 play vs Nets is false & Evans mistakenly sat on bench after thinking Cousins was in before rushing back on floor.


Surrreeeeeeee.

It is a technical foul if a team doesn't have 5 players on the court when play starts. We had this foul called against us recently when one of the players was harmlessly standing outside the court across the end line. In other words, a tech should have been called on Evans.

 

[206Fan]

It is a technical foul if a team doesn't have 5 players on the court when play starts. We had this foul called against us recently when one of the players was harmlessly standing outside the court across the end line. In other words, a tech should have been called on Evans.

That's a stupid rule...

 

[Glenn]

That's a stupid rule...

I'm not 100% clear on the rule but we DID have a tech called when a guy was out of bounds. I don't have a clue why the rule exists. Maybe something deceptive could happen like having a player sit on the bench when the ball was put in play.

I think it's stupid also.

 

[B.O.B.]

You said it best - Leadership. NONE of the Kings many problems can be addressed until the leadership issue is fixed, and it's fairly clear - at least to me - that leadership is a huge problem. Too many voices and it seems to me (and I know I'm in the minority) that it seems as if there's a whole lot of folks in the organization who seemed more focused on leaking information to the talking heads than actually trying to focus on fixing the Kings. Not only that, Grant Napear is right, there is way too many press credentials handed out.

 

[funkykingston]

'Tis a worry. Anything we can do? The mention of Grangers name somewhere today heartened me at least briefly. I hope he can help Vivek go in the right direction. Also, I would think what's-his-name, Stern's replacement would help keep Vivek from going too wrong. Our best brains on here have repeatedly done a good job of laying out the problems. I can't believe Vivek doesn't at least have an intern reading everything and keeping him apprised. Also ticket sales and season ticket sales for next season which begin in January should get some attention. A barometer.

I am appreciative of what Chris Granger has and is doing for the Kings. And I think Adam Silver has done an admirable job as commissioner so far. But neither of those men have any say in the personnel matters of the Kings. That's solely the function of the front office. It's not part of Granger's job at all and as for Adam Silver, he works FOR the owners. Each franchise is it's own entity and they are free (within the bounds of the CBA and NBA rules) to run their team however they'd like.

In short, there isn't anything to stop an owner from making terrible decisions. Just ask Knicks fans over the last decade or so.

And the only thing we can do as fans is make our displeasure heard and stop buying tickets and merchandise. I won't be attending any more games this season until things change. Which is frustrating because my kids (7, 5 and 3) are now old enough that I was planning to take my in-laws up on their offer to split season tickets next season. Those plans are also now on hold.

 

[Chubbs]

It will not be one year to see the effects. It's been an immediate disaster of franchise killing proportions. You have to maintain stability even if you ultimately want to replace the guy in charge.

Watch fans stop coming this year. Watch kings fans.com become a ghost town.

They had a team and city bought in to a coach, and then took a gallon of gasoline and poured it all over the locker room, and set it on fire. The culture of effort and trusting teammates is just gone. It was happening! The culture was changing, and they stopped it. It makes little sense.

From a psychological point of view, which our front office is utterly blind to, here is Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The king's were starting to flirt with up in the green zone. Safety, belonging, respect by others and for others, it was starting to be there. But one step up from your basic physiological needs (which the maloofs had trouble meeting), is your stability, safety, which is a crucial thing. By firing Malone, stability is gone and chaos reigns. They wrongly have insinuated they thought the foundation was built (thinking they erased ten years of chaos in one extremely chaotic year, what arrogance, what disgusting, bloated, ego driven arrogance). Whereas Boogie and Rudy were playing way up near the self actualization area, or they were at least ready to start take that step, they completely pulled the bottom leadership and stability level out. Without anything to fill that void (and Corbin isn't it), it all topples. That's what we are seeing. Predictable and inevitable. [/quote]

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

I'm just so over Rudy Gay....he's the SF version of Isaiah Thomas, whenever he dribbles or drives there's guys wide open under the rim and instead of passing he chucks it. Than on defense the guy just has no idea, how can a guy 6'8 with a 7'3 wingspan and good athletic ability be such a sub par defender? I mean he twice for reasons only known to him instead of playing up in Teletovic sagged back so Mirza could drill 2 3's and win them the game, he also got lit up by Joe Johnson.

Gay is hurting Mclemore's development who we managed to completely freeze out again after he was like 3/3 from the field.

#Collison for the first or 2nd time this year played shocking D which was surprising, when we actually gave him the ball (when Rudy was not hogging it) he was creating havoc in the lane and dropping off passes for dimes to Landry. Until we allow Collison to dribble drive more often we are going no where.
#Nik hit a couple big shots but he still looks afraid out there and still overall did a number of things to hurt us
#Ray...I love Ray but he's a D-League PG at this stage, unless he starts hitting 3's @40% he just does nothing else well enough to be a back up PG in the NBA
#Landry was effective for the small amount he played
#JT/Reggie got outplayed by whoever they were against
#Cousins was effective, didn't get the ball enough and for a guy who complained about the team not playing D some of his efforts on box out's and stupid reach in's which resulted in "and one's" was not really setting a good example at all.

This has nothing to do with coaching or NBA 3.0 this was just a complete lack of effort by our players. On offense we at some stage have to allow Darren Collison and Mclemore to take over the game instead of both being drowned to death via Rudy Gay chucks.

At least we now 100% now team is rubbish with and without Cuz.

Gay needs a talented team around him to be at his best. Like when was on Memphis.

He doesn't have that right now.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

Kupman:

How much longer before you deem something a success? The right move will show instant improvement. Karl, for example, has a history of quick turnarounds. This is not an example of growing pains. There's no growth. Why don't you show me the growth? Are we taking better shots? Are the possessions, pace-adjusted, any better? How about that defense?

Businesses go under in the blink of an eye. Vivek knows this. That's why you have to be "two steps ahead". Plans like these require a quick resolution. Twisting in the wind is bad for business, and that's what we're seeing.

This is not a transition; it's a regression. It's players yelling at each other. It's Cousins trying to be dad, since dad was kicked out. Cousins is being the leader we need him to be, not the cipher PDA wants him to be. He's doing it for the right reasons, and has my support.

You can believe that canning Malone is a move for the better, but, ironically, for those of us who believe patience was required with Malone, understand that apathy will result in a loss of Cousins, and have no patience for further foolishness.

Surprisingly, the fact that this is as united kingsfans.com has ever been should be pretty telling. It isn't even 50/50 - it's like 98/2.

There's something very Orwellian about the FO right now. I'd rather oppose the moves now, than happily hum all the way to the glue farm.

I guess I'm part of the 2 then.

I think over the last 10 years or so the Kings have had so many awful seasons, and wasted high lottery picks. Thomas Robinson and Jimmer Fredette are two 'prizes' from awful, painful, recent seasons. How helpful have they been? These were all years under the Maloofs.

So Sacramento is about to lose its team completely, and here comes Ranadive and the rest of the ownership group who SAVED the Kings from going!

We have 2 bona fide all stars signed into the future. We start 9-5 or something, and then we've regressed for the past 16 games. Still within shouting distance of .500. The ownership group has deep pockets and a solid plan for the future, unlike the past owners.

We're doing better in terms of growth than I've seen in many seasons, in my opinion.

And yet, people are ready to scream and yell at this ownership group and kick them out of the building. How predictable and hilarious. Only time will tell how this team develops but I would place my bet on the Kings having a bright future.

But hey, all of this impatience shows just how passionate our fans are, and that's the most important gift of all. I am lucky to be a part of such a good fan base and on this forum. Don't mean to make people mad, just trying to express my opinion on how NBA 3.0 could work out well for the Kings.

 

[Chubbs]

I guess I'm part of the 2 then.

I think over the last 10 years or so the Kings have had so many awful seasons, and wasted high lottery picks. Thomas Robinson and Jimmer Fredette are two 'prizes' from awful, painful, recent seasons. How helpful have they been? These were all years under the Maloofs.

So Sacramento is about to lose its team completely, and here comes Ranadive and the rest of the ownership group who SAVED the Kings from going!

We have 2 bona fide all stars signed into the future. We start 9-5 or something, and then we've regressed for the past 16 games. Still within shouting distance of .500. The ownership group has deep pockets and a solid plan for the future, unlike the past owners.

We're doing better in terms of growth than I've seen in many seasons, in my opinion.

And yet, people are ready to scream and yell at this ownership group and kick them out of the building. How predictable and hilarious. Only time will tell how this team develops but I would place my bet on the Kings having a bright future.

But hey, all of this impatience shows just how passionate our fans are, and that's the most important gift of all. I am lucky to be a part of such a good fan base and on this forum. Don't mean to make people mad, just trying to express my opinion on how NBA 3.0 could work out well for the Kings.

Whoa, what? Fans don't have patience, the front office has a plan? Fans were patiently watching Malone and the players grow. The front office waived the white flag, not the fans. The front office is lying to the players and media, not the fans. The front office is hiding, flat out hiding like scared kittens while the whole thing burns to the ground.

Fans, frankly, are the only ones who seem to care about this franchise. The front office is just letting things devolve more and more. Maybe it was intentional. Maybe they planned to destroy this team all along in search of a draft pick. They are trying to pull one over on the fans, renewing season tickets in January before Tank 2.0 goes full steam ahead.

How many accounts does PDA have anyway?

What, pray tell, is the plan? Waste another season with a coach they plan to fire? Cause that's what the reality looks like from where I am sitting. But who knows, the chicken crap front office won't even tell the players what's going on.

I mean seriously, what is nba 3.0? What is it? Please, someone, tell me. If being the dysfunctional national punchline the Kings are now was the goal, then I must say, I don't care for it.

 

[Spike]

Whoa, what? Fans don't have patience, the front office has a plan?

A thousand times this. We were patient with Malone, watching him and the team grow. We saw the plan. 2 steps forward, 1 step back. It was the FO that lacked patience, because it didn't fit their narrative.
Once they decide to open up and tell us the plan, then we may show patience. Until then, "two legs good, four legs bad."

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

Whoa, what? Fans don't have patience, the front office has a plan? Fans were patiently watching Malone and the players grow. The front office waived the white flag, not the fans. The front office is lying to the players and media, not the fans. The front office is hiding, flat out hiding like scared kittens while the whole thing burns to the ground.

Fans, frankly, are the only ones who seem to care about this franchise. The front office is just letting things devolve more and more. Maybe it was intentional. Maybe they planned to destroy this team all along in search of a draft pick. They are trying to pull one over on the fans, renewing season tickets in January before Tank 2.0 goes full steam ahead.

How many accounts does PDA have anyway?

What, pray tell, is the plan? Waste another season with a coach they plan to fire? Cause that's what the reality looks like from where I am sitting. But who knows, the chicken poopoo front office won't even tell the players what's going on.

I mean seriously, what is nba 3.0? What is it? Please, someone, tell me. If being the dysfunctional national punchline the Kings are now was the goal, then I must say, I don't care for it.

Ok, right. So according to you, the ownership is made up of scared kittens waiting while the team burns to the ground. The ownership group plans to destroy the team in search of a draft pick. They are trying to lie to the fans and tank.

That is your theory, and mine is that the Kings have a bright future under this ownership group.

With time, let's see which theory turns out to be more correct.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

Whoa, what? Fans don't have patience, the front office has a plan? Fans were patiently watching Malone and the players grow. The front office waived the white flag, not the fans. The front office is lying to the players and media, not the fans. The front office is hiding, flat out hiding like scared kittens while the whole thing burns to the ground.

Fans, frankly, are the only ones who seem to care about this franchise. The front office is just letting things devolve more and more. Maybe it was intentional. Maybe they planned to destroy this team all along in search of a draft pick. They are trying to pull one over on the fans, renewing season tickets in January before Tank 2.0 goes full steam ahead.

How many accounts does PDA have anyway?

What, pray tell, is the plan? Waste another season with a coach they plan to fire? Cause that's what the reality looks like from where I am sitting. But who knows, the chicken poopoo front office won't even tell the players what's going on.

I mean seriously, what is nba 3.0? What is it? Please, someone, tell me. If being the dysfunctional national punchline the Kings are now was the goal, then I must say, I don't care for it.

NBA 3.0 as I understand it (and I hope this is accurate) is an analytical approach similar to the Oakland A's Moneyball. Converted into basketball. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[rainmaker]

But hey, all of this impatience shows just how passionate our fans are, and that's the most important gift of all. I am lucky to be a part of such a good fan base and on this forum. Don't mean to make people mad, just trying to express my opinion on how NBA 3.0 could work out well for the Kings.

We have fans here who've been patient through decades of losing. Almost everyone here came aboard during our golden era at the latest, meaning it's been 8 straight years of losing for the luckiest of fans, mixed in with numerous poor coaches, rosters and the Maloof element hanging over the team with the threat to move.

Then we have a FO and owner who weren't patient enough to even give Malone 30 games this season, during our best start in near a decade!

And you think it's us, the fans, who've been dragged through the mud for years and are still here who are the ones who aren't patient enough?

 

[VF21]

We have fans here who've been patient through decades of losing. Almost everyone here came aboard during our golden era at the latest, meaning it's been 8 straight years of losing for the luckiest of fans, mixed in with numerous poor coaches, rosters and the Maloof element hanging over the team with the threat to move.

Then we have a FO and owner who weren't patient enough to even give Malone 30 games this season, during our best start in near a decade!

And you think it's us, the fans, who've been dragged through the mud for years and are still here who are the ones who aren't patient enough?

Damn it. Will you please quit saying things I agree with?

 

[Chubbs]

Ok, right. So according to you, the ownership is made up of scared kittens waiting while the team burns to the ground. The ownership group plans to destroy the team in search of a draft pick. They are trying to lie to the fans and tank.

That is your theory, and mine is that the Kings have a bright future under this ownership group.

With time, let's see which theory turns out to be more correct.

ha, yeah, well, if you think they're making the playoffs this season like our owner, then, good luck to you sir.

The scared kittens is about right now. Where are they? They hire Corbin for the season and don't tell anyone, including the players? The locker room is in disarray. Where are they?! What's the plan? How are we stopping this free fall right now? Just hoping? The whole plan was to hire Corbin, a guy Malone hired when the FO preferred Gentry? Is this a joke? They want an up tempo style yet hire a coach with no track record of ever doing that? There are some contradictions that need to be addressed.

I'm not sure I'd be satisfied with anything less than a full apology from the front office. Be accountable. Say, hey, we screwed up, here is how we are going to fix it. Instead, crickets. They will most likely make Corbin the scapegoat, talk about players not buying in. Ive been a fan since day 1. I've never been this disgusted. Even when the Maloofs were sabotaging every effort to build an arena. At least I knew they were broke, desperate people. I expected it. This is, just, shocking.

Corbin is going go have a very interesting media session tomorrow. When did you sign? Did the front office tell you to keep it quiet? The players really didn't know? Did Corbin know? Is the rumor even true? Those are questions for the front office, but, where'd they go? They love the camera, but times get tough and they go into hibernation. Stop it with the cliches, and stories of Jazz and moving up to the Four Seasons. Tell me exactly what you're doing now to fix it. The answer seems to be nothing. Stop blowing smoke up my ass.

You say this is our team? Prove it.

They are going to lose fans. They already have.

I could really give two craps about the future when the present had been so promising and has now been blown up, reputations ruined, players mad, fans livid, etc. I'm not waiting 3-4 years. I just can't do it anymore. The time was now. They blew it up. I just don't get it and never will.

 

[VF21]

ha, yeah, well, if you think they're making the playoffs this season like our owner, then, good luck to you sir.

The scared kittens is about right now. Where are they? They hire Corbin for the season and don't tell anyone, including the players? The locker room is in disarray. Where are they?! What's the plan? How are we stopping this free fall right now? Just hoping? The whole plan was to hire Corbin, a guy Malone hired when the FO preferred Gentry? Is this a joke? They want an up tempo style yet hire a coach with no track record of ever doing that? There are some contradictions that need to be addressed.

I'm not sure I'd be satisfied with anything less than a full apology from the front office. Be accountable. Say, hey, we screwed up, here is how we are going to fix it. Instead, crickets. They will most likely make Corbin the scapegoat, talk about players not buying in. Ive been a fan since day 1. I've never been this disgusted. Even when the Maloofs were sabotaging every effort to build an arena. At least I knew they were broke, desperate people. I expected it. This is, just, shocking.

Corbin is going go have a very interesting media session tomorrow. When did you sign? Did the front office tell you to keep it quiet? The players really didn't know? Did Corbin know? Is the rumor even true? Those are questions for the front office, but, where'd they go? They love the camera, but times get tough and they go into hibernation. Stop it with the cliches, and stories of Jazz and moving up to the Four Seasons. Tell me exactly what you're doing now to fix it. The answer seems to be nothing. Stop blowing smoke up my ass.

You say this is our team? Prove it.

They are going to lose fans. They already have.

I could really give two poopoos about the future when the present had been so promising and has now been blown up, reputations ruined, players mad, fans livid, etc. I'm not waiting 3-4 years. I just can't do it anymore. The time was now. They blew it up. I just don't get it and never will.

Geez. Just my two cents - but I think you're going at the guy pretty hard. He didn't really say anything that bad.

 

[Chubbs]

Geez. Just my two cents - but I think you're going at the guy pretty hard. He didn't really say anything that bad.

One sentence related to the poster. One.

I thought my vitriol was aimed squarely at the front office.

 

[VF21]

One sentence related to the poster. One.

You know what? I apologize. You're right. I read it quickly and didn't realize you had started aiming your comments at Corbin, the front office, etc.

My bad.

 

[Chubbs]

You know what? I apologize. You're right. I read it quickly and didn't realize you had started aiming your comments at Corbin, the front office, etc.

My bad.

Not even Corbin really. He's just the only one giving media access right now.

He's not going to have the answers we all want.

 

[VF21]

Not even Corbin really. He's just the only one giving media access right now.

He's not going to have the answers we all want.

You're even going to argue with my apology? Whatever.

 

[Spike]

Again, I don't think it's what has been done, but the way it was done. Once again, your franchise player shouldn't have to use social media to hear news.

That's weak sauce.

Ownership shouldn't be afraid of fans. Hold a press conference. Own the fart. Own it!
If you truly believe your way is the right way, be up front. We deserve that. Hell, even 76ers management was straightforward with the fanbase. No, "it's about wins and losses", "uh, we mean style". "We will make playoffs with Corbin"...etc. Own it.