Grades v. Mavs 1/11

Kings player of the game?

  • Kevin Martin

    Votes: 11 14.9%
  • Beno Udrih

    Votes: 21 28.4%
  • Francisco Garcia

    Votes: 22 29.7%
  • Ghost of JKidd

    Votes: 10 13.5%
  • Dirk Nowitzki

    Votes: 10 13.5%

  • Total voters
    74
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Well, you can't lose them all.

And so, seeing as the team did the next worst thing to actually being blown out -- they won a game -- I think that's worth a theme. Not a Pretty Girls theme -- although there is some hope Orlando can deliver one of those on Tuesday. But something I have delayed on ever since Boston stomped us: The 10 Best Power Forwards In Kings History


Salmons ( C ) -- good start going around the Ghost of JKidd, but quickly evaporated into an indifferent 13pt offensive outing (note to John: Dampier is a shotblocker). And defense...wow, it was a disaster for our best defensive player. Jason Terry roasted him at will, in the third quarter in particular, and ran John into screen after screen on his way to a season best performance. And when not getting lit up by the smaller player, John had the joy of being Natted into a 6'6" 210lb PF. Late in the first half when Natt brought in Beno for...Jason Thompson(!), switching Salmons over to PF to play against Dirk, and again late in the game when Natt tried to get original about throwing things. Of course while Dirk should have scored over him easily, and repeatedly beat him with post moves, he could not finish anything tonight and might well deserve the Kings gameball on the evening for his lousy play. John had a minor role to play down the stretch, scoring on a nice drive against Kidd, but also being overpowered by Dirk for the 3pt play in the bad matchup.
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#1 Chris Webber
Career Stats
With Kings: 99-05
Best Year With The Kings: 00-01 27.1pts 11.1rebs 4.2ast 1.3stl 1.7blk
Well duh and all that. The man once averaged 27.1pts 11.1rebs 4.2ast 1.3stl 1.7blk for us in a season and is about to have his jersey retired. Not only the greatest PF we've had, also the greatest player we've had in Sacto history, and right up there as possibly the second best the franchise has ever had dating back to the 1950s (nobody is catching Oscar Robertson for #1). The Kings have probably had more good PFs than they have any other position with the possible exception of OG, but there is only one king at the position.


Thompson ( B ) -- was slashing effectively to start this one, keeping it relatively simple moving to the hoop for conversions ala Mikki. Relatively indifferent first half though as his involvement faded off and he started to have trouble on defense again. Garbageman in the third, again moving well to receive little dumpoff passes from various people and finishing them (never agiven with Jason). Mysteriously decided to try a running hook inside against Dampier in the late third which...lets just call it a rookie mistake, because otherwise Jason sometimes gives you reason to question his basketball I.Q.. Removed in the mid 4th after Dirk returned and Jason was startign to rack up fouls against him. Overall a solid effort. Not as much on the glass as he normally is, but playing within himself (mostly). Its a world away from Jason as any kind of star player and more role player stuff, but its probably where he needs to start to get settled before attempting more.
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#2 Otis Thorpe
Career Stats
With Kings: 85-88
Best Year With The Kings: 87-88 20.8pts 10.2rebs 3.2ast 0.8stl 0.7blk
Only slightly less obvious than Webb (there was only one serious competitior for this spot) Otis arrived in Sacto as part of that first team. He had been a promising broad shouldered 6'10" rookie the previous season, and after a disappointing first year in Sacto (9.9pts 5.6rebs -- similar to JT, there is hope) he exploded in year 3 to 18.9pts 10.2rebs and upped it even further in year 4 to become the only other 20-10 guy in Sacto history other than Webb. And so, 25yr old 20-10 guy...obviously there was nothing left to do but trade him. For Rodney McCray and Jim Petersen. That's the sort of franchise you have willingly chosen to associate yourself with as a fan. He would go on to win a title playing wingman to Hakeem in Houston, and help bring them another when he was traded for Clyde Drexler the next seasson before briefly passing back through Sacramento late in his career.


Miller ( B- ) -- efficient offensively at least to start, and for whatever reason Dirk did not light him up early (the reason mostly being the Mavs would have been better off with Kenny Thomas than Dirk tonight, and I barely jest) . Had some problems with the Dampier muscle as the first half wore on but began to become effective with his little jumepr game in the third quarter. Helped grease the offense somewhat, but was also sloppy wiht the ball, and racked up a yummy 5 TOs. Missed 1 of 2 FTs in the final 30 seconds to leave the door ever so slightly ajar for the Mavs, but they only had one player (well, 2, but Dampier is defense) and so could not take advantage.
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#3 Wayman Tisdale
Career Stats
With Kings: 89-94
Best Year With The Kings: 89-90 22.3pts 7.5rebs 1.4ast 0.6stl 0.6blk
The PF right through many of our bad ole years (it was not coincidence), Tizzy might earn this spot just for longetivity even if he hadn't been any good. I remember the first year we traded for him midseason, and I was ecstatic because he averaged nearly 20-10 for the second half of the year for us, and I was thinking well, we just got done trading away one 20-10 PF, but at least now we got a 20-10 guy back. But soon enough the inital surge wore off and the real Tizzy emerged. Soft, short (listed 6'9", closer to 6'7"), often pudgy, lousy rebounder, a blackhole on offense, could not defend...it was a laundry list of ways to be a PF on a losing team. But he was a good scorer and did have a serious postgame, using his generous posterior to back guys down for his patented "Tizzy flip", and he was one hell of nice guy, and back in those bad ole days that was the best we could do for about 6 years. Post Kings he has gone on to become a Jazz musician of note, and just last year suffered a tragedy when he had to have part of his leg amputated due to bone cancer at the ripe old age of 44.


Martin ( B- ) -- shaky shooting start and then just sort of became invisible as the first half wore on. Woke up in the third from outside. The Mavs kept on giving him space out there, and he was pure form the perimeter. His attempts to drive were less successful, as Dampier was a huge roadblock and he was repeatedly stripped an blocked (5 TOs on the night). Again tried to draw a damn foul rather than just shoot on the closing shot of the third quarter, and again came up with nothing because of it. Pretty much disappeared therafter -- had 17 ast the end of 3, and I think his 4th quarter points were late FTs when the Mavs had to foul. Did make a semi-serious effort to play the goat for a third game in a row, which would have been fairly disastrous for his rep and confidence, by catching a ball while standing out of bounds on an inbounds play in the final minute, thus giving the Mavs life where they should have had none, and then bricking the first of a pair of FTs with us up 6 and 18 seconds to go. Fortunately hit the second which was largely the clincher. Pretty much a weak game wrapped around a strong stretch in the third quarter. One note: wasn't guarding him much, but seemed to do a better defensive job on Terry than did Salmons those times when he was on him. Not often I get to say that.
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#4 Brian Grant
Career Stats
With Kings: 94-97
Best Year With The Kings: 94-95 13.2pts 7.5rebs 1.2ast 0.6stl 1.5blk
Geoff's first draft pick, Grant was our undersized replacement for the undersized Tizzy and had an impressive rookie season. After his arrival, along with Michael "The Animal" Smith, he got a rep as a hardnosed physical player that was helping to change our ultrasoft reputation (ironically we have come full circle). And yet if you look at what he actually did while in Sacto -- he was every bit as terrible a rebounder as Tizzy. Think we might have just been SO soft that anything looked dramatic. The defense was certainly a vast and welcome change however. Unfortunately he never got much better after the rookie campaign, and the disloyal dog abandoned us to our losing ways in free agency after his third year.
 
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Udrih ( A- ) -- best start he's had in a month, very aggressive early and scoring from all over. Had 10pts 3ast in the first quarter but did not return until the 3:45 mark of the second because obviously he was not doing what the Natt wanted him to do or something. Was never as effective offensively after returning, but avoided the mistakes which have plagued him for most of the season, and finished with zero turnovers. Even came up with a couple of hustle plays on defense. Pulled in the mid 4th so that Natt could go with his three-non PG lineup. Got back in a couple of minutes later however when the Mavs subbed in Barea for more shooting. This might have been more B+ than A-, but given the stretch he's been through, bumped it the extra half grade.
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#5 Antoine Carr
Career Stats
With Kings: 90-91
Best Year With The Kings: 90-91 20.1pts 5.5rebs 2.5ast 0.6stl 1.3blk
6'9" 265lbs of bad attitude, the mere sight of Big Dog would have sent any of our current crop of soft little ninnies running for the hills screaming. Jason would be trying to rematriculate at Rider, Spencer would find it hard to do his arrogant strut after Twoine pulled off his legs for an afternoon snack, and he'd be using Mikki as a toothpick to clean up afterwards. And yet for all the muscle and the bark, Big Dog's favorite offensive weapon was a 15 foot jumper and he was one of the worst big man rebounders I have ever seen -- his 5.5 per game with us was his career BEST. Just nobody tell him I mentioned that ok? After we got done trading him for Dwayne Schintzius (again, this is the franchise you have chosen to support) he went on to become a keymember of the great Jazz squads that challenged the Bulls in the Finals in the mid-90s.


Garcia ( A- ) -- just had one of those nights where everything was going to fall. Did a good job when moved over to the point in the mid 2nd quarter, and was scoring easily and in rhythm from whatever position he played. Had another burst to begin the 4th, and in a dubious move by the Natt, actually was switched back over to play PG when Natt decided to REMOVE ours down the stretch of the game. Took one wild panic gerbil shot when things got tight, but otherwise impersonated a player in control for much of the evening. Had little problem staying in front of the Ghost of JKidd, who could probably not take me off the dribble anymore. Not much to not like about this one, but he has been better from time to time when the stars align, so the minus it was.
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#6 Jason Thompson
Career Stats
With Kings: 08-09
Best Year With The Kings: 08-09 9.1pts 6.7rebs 1.0ast 0.6stl 0.6blk
And now a time for a little speculation, but only a little. The competition has softened in these middle ranges, and Jason only has to get a little bit better for a little while to justify this slot. Still not sure whether he is going to be a star or not -- he lacks that sort of presence and control of the game out there. But he has talent and if he learns to play within himself should at the very least become a strong roleplayer, which is kind of the level of player we have reached at his point. With improvement and growth (and the minutes to improve and grow) could easily move up on this list as well.


Hawes ( B ) -- active first half with some good moments, a couple of nice conversions including a classic fallaway jumper from the post and some spats of good defense on Dirk. But also some moments of getting overpowered by the smaller Brandon Bass. Some good effect in the early 4th and was doing a good job on the boards, but a pair of missed FTs at the 8:00 mark hurt our momentum and having trouble getting around Dampier in there. Got the late minutes instead of Jason, but never had the chance, nor the need, to play hero again to bail us out.
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#7 Keon Clark
Career Stats
With Kings: 02-03
Best Year With The Kings: 02-03 6.7pts 5.6rebs 1.0ast 0.5stl 1.9blk
Given an unreasonably hard time by fans during his year with the Kings, this stickman was a major factor in the best defensive team (and arguably best team) the Kings have ever fielded. We picked him up for nothing, and dumped him for less than nothing (we actually GAVE a pick away as the Maloofs signalled the end of the golden era by pulling back financially), but in between he mgiht well have been the most effective shotblocker the Saccramento era Kings have fielded. Its funny how many complaints we could come up with back in the days when there wasn't much to complain about, and how many people disliked a player the likes of which we would kill to have now. Brad especially would kill to have him around, as Keon could score him some great bud. Selfish, dumb as a rock, his head eternally surrounded by a halo of funny smelling smoke, all true. But also an impact defender on a truly great team.


Jackson ( C ) -- short first half minutes and did little in them, adn was only back for a cup of coffee in the second half with Beno playing well, and the Natt going with Cisco as a backup PG ratehr than either of the Bobby's. Almost bailed on this one and called it an incomplete as there was so little really going on in his minutes, but given that he did rech double figure minutes decided to just go with the lesser bail and call it a C.
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#8 Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Career Stats
With Kings: 05-08
Best Year With The Kings: 05-06 12.3pts 5.0rebs 2.1ast 0.7stl 0.6blk
Obviously if this were a list of these players in their prime, Reef would have been up there battling for the #2/#3 spots, as he signed with the Kings with a career 20ppg scoring average. But he was damaged goods before he ever arrived in Sacto, and everybody but our front office seemed to know it. Nor had he ever had the impact a player of his talent might have suggested even back in his best days -- he played 12 seasons in the league, and made the playoffs only once, and that was during his frist year with us when Ron Ron arrived to save the day. That was also the year when it was obvious just how fast and how prematurely (he was only 28) he was slipping, as the player who showed up in Sacto still had the nifty post moves, but no longer had any lift or rebounding ability. The result must have been particularly humiliating for Shareef -- he actually lost his starting spot to Kenny Thomas by midseason as like many deteriorating stars, his game was never very well suited for the roleplayer duties his aching knees demanded.
 
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Moore ( INC ) -- invisible in 5 first half minutes off the bench and never returned. Appears to be fading from the rotation.
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#9 Kenny Thomas
Career Stats
With Kings: 05-09
Best Year With The Kings: 05-06 9.1pts 7.5rebs 2.0ast 0.9stl 0.5blk
I will take it as patently obvious that I did not want to do this, but there it is. Nobody else remaining is any more impressive, and frankly none of them were ever leigitmate starters in the league (we will leave aside the question of whether being an undersized starter on a bad team is legit or not in Kenny's case). Anyway, here it is: K-9 at #9, and that tells you the bottom has fallen out of the PF pool. A good rebounder, a flexible piece...what more could you ask for this late in the list? Minor note however, after four years of careful observation I have come to the conclusion that KT is not truly an adequate replacement for CWebb.


Brown ( INC ) -- had a nice assist in short first half minutes, but also some trouble staying in front of Barea. Never got a return call after half as a new threat emerged toward his minutes -- Cisco as PG. :eek:
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#10 Anthony Bonner
Career Stats
With Kings: 90-93
Best Year With The Kings: 91-92 9.4pts 6.1rebs 1.6ast 1.2stl 0.3blk
An undersized scrapper who actually led the NCAA in rebounding his senior year, A.B. found the going tougher once he entered the NBA as an undersized tweener forward. We tried to start him, tried to bring him off the bench, sometimes he was good, ofttimes not so much. He never really did find a role or traction in the league, and was out of the league by '95. He narrowly held off a whole slate of contenders for this final spot: Michael "Animal" Smith (his virtual replacement), Ed Pinckney, Mark Olberding, Brina Skinner, Lawrence Funderburke, Darius Songaila, Pete Chilcutt, and yes even Mikki Moore. Whatta list.
 
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Beno and Garcia were the keys for today's win!!

Beno, this is what we wanted from you all year!!
 
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Jason Thompson made some mistakes and his 12 pts/5 boards is not overly impressive, but he did have a +13 in +/-.
 
Beno for a no-TO game (for a nice change of pace). Otherwise, a great game by Garcia would get my vote.
 
Nice win. The team played with a lot of unselfishness and patience, and "kind of" poise there at the end.:p If they keep it up, they'll get some more wins.
 
Hawes was beastin on the boards in his limited minutes...


...When he feels like it he really goes after it on the glass
 
The Kings is a great team and not wanting for more talents like any other team IF they play with their best all-out effort.

Good job Kings. :)
 
I never saw the game but I voted Udrih because those are the kind of numbers he showed us last year that he is capable of putting up. While I'm one of those who wants this team to lose this year, it was nice seeing them beat the Mavs. Keep it up Beno
 
Wow when you said PF was one of our better positions, I thought the list would look different than this for some reason. Then I saw Brian Grant at #4 and realized how crappy a franchise the Kings have really been. If Keon Clark could have kept it together he could have easily been at least 4th on the list. I think Kenny Thomas' best year was his first half year with us. He was actually pretty good, had a sweet jumper and was doing a great job on the boards. Not sure what happened after that.
 
Wow when you said PF was one of our better positions, I thought the list would look different than this for some reason. Then I saw Brian Grant at #4 and realized how crappy a franchise the Kings have really been. If Keon Clark could have kept it together he could have easily been at least 4th on the list. I think Kenny Thomas' best year was his first half year with us. He was actually pretty good, had a sweet jumper and was doing a great job on the boards. Not sure what happened after that.


Reef came on board, diminishing KT's role. Finally, Rick left, and virtually all our vets saw their performance dive.


Think KT gets a bad rep because people still associate him with the Webber trade, and the flexible piece promise (he hasn't helped with his bad play and often grumpy attitude), but Brad (particularly for the amount he makes), has also been atrocious.
 
Wow when you said PF was one of our better positions, I thought the list would look different than this for some reason. Then I saw Brian Grant at #4 and realized how crappy a franchise the Kings have really been. If Keon Clark could have kept it together he could have easily been at least 4th on the list. I think Kenny Thomas' best year was his first half year with us. He was actually pretty good, had a sweet jumper and was doing a great job on the boards. Not sure what happened after that.


While its certainly true thatwe have sucked, you have to remember that this is only over a 23 year period -- and 23 years is a long time, but when you are taking the 10 best players at a single position over that period that is one guy every 2.3 years. You get a couple of good long term starters in there, and its hard to even come up with 10 legit starters. Even if you did the same list for the Lakers it might look like (off the top of my head and calling guys like Odom and Ceballos SFs, Mychal Thompson and Chris Mihm Cs) #1 Pau, #2 Elden Campbell, #3 Sam Perkins, #4 A.C. Green #5 Robert Horry #6 Kurt Rambis #7 old Horace Grant #8 would have to think about it, etc. Probably missing somebody there, but anyway, you run out of All Star calber guys pretty quick.
 
#1 Pau, #2 Elden Campbell, #3 Sam Perkins, #4 A.C. Green #5 Robert Horry #6 Kurt Rambis #7 old Horace Grant #8 would have to think about it, etc. Probably missing somebody there, but anyway, you run out of All Star calber guys pretty quick.

you forgot the coattail-riding mailman.
 
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