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I cant believe you gave Salmons a C- he basically lost this game for us
[Grades] Grades v. Mavs 1/10/2013
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
how about when Carter hit Cousins and knocked him down?
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LWP777
Guest
Sorry...I have to be honest again....DMC with another A-??? 5 TO's, 6 miss FT's, and a F2 that sealed our fate does not equal an A-!!!!
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
^as much as this guy likes to find every reason to bash DMC, i have to agree with that post
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
And 29pts and 9 rebs on 9-14 shooting as he carried us. While his tag team oppponents (Kaman and Brand, tow old former All Stars) combiend for 10pts.
Which BTW makes him the best center in the game.
I did not see all of this game. What was obvious to me in the fourth quarter with Evans bringing up the ball at the point was that he absolutely killed the Kings' offensive momentum. He walks the ball up or trots slowly like he is resting. The ball gets to the offensive end with about 16 seconds left. He dribbles a few times and looks around and makes a pass with about 12 secondsl left on the 24 second clock. Half the time allotted for the offense is used up before anyone else touches the ball. The Kings' stand around a lot, then someone throws up a shot with a hand in their face to beat the buzzer. Evans is coming back from an injury and did some good things last night, but he is absolutely, positively not the guy to play the 1. I have believed this all along.
Contrast the style of Thomas at the point. He pushes the ball often getting a pass to a teammate with 20-21 seonds left on the clock. He drives and dishes a lot. He can't drive as well as Evans, but still gets to the hoop and doesn't get snuffed as much as Evans. He can shoot better than Evans.
The Kings played their best ball against the old and creaky Mavs by pushing the ball, beating them down the floor and getting them tired. Once they played the slow half court game like in the fourth quarter their fate was sealed. Playing at home against a team that had lost 10 of 11, they gave away the game by getting away from everything they did right in the first 3 quarters. I am completely miffed that Evans receives an A- for his effort.
Contrast the style of Thomas at the point. He pushes the ball often getting a pass to a teammate with 20-21 seonds left on the clock. He drives and dishes a lot. He can't drive as well as Evans, but still gets to the hoop and doesn't get snuffed as much as Evans. He can shoot better than Evans.
The Kings played their best ball against the old and creaky Mavs by pushing the ball, beating them down the floor and getting them tired. Once they played the slow half court game like in the fourth quarter their fate was sealed. Playing at home against a team that had lost 10 of 11, they gave away the game by getting away from everything they did right in the first 3 quarters. I am completely miffed that Evans receives an A- for his effort.
Kaman is beyond crap. There's a reason the Mavs went small-ball with Dirk at C most of the 2nd half. And Brand is pretty much a defensive stud/jump shooter offensively these days. So while Boogie playing nice defense was really nice to see, I'll hold off on calling him the best C in the game until he shuts down The B. Lopez/ Dwight/Horford's of the league. The guys who actually have skill
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You people are amazing. Really. You get a guy who scores 20pts for you on 8-11 (72.7%) shooting. Grabs 7rebs. Turns it over only 1 time. Plays great defense. And you're miffed when he gets an A-, the minus BTW being precisely for those minutes at PG, which he asked for no more than he aksed to be played at PF.
Maybe you jsut think more hihgly of Rek than I do. Maybe 25pts 10rebs on 100% shooting is an A- given his talent. But then what would be an A or A+? But I think I'll stick to reality where a guy played a great highly efficient game on both sides of the ball, pretty much marred only when his coach suddenly decided to start linuep experiments.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I didn't call him the best center int he game because he shut down Kaman (who actually as usual can still score BTW) and Brand (who is done). I called him the best center in the game bcause he's averaging 22.8pts 13.0rebs on .526 shooting this month, and this was just a continuation of that beatdown he has been putting on just everybody (except Memphis, but it was very obvious he was tired form the get go in that one).
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
i wouldnt even blame him for the teams lack of success while he was at PG. Dallas had ALL the momentum thanks to the midget lineup Smart has just used
UK_King
Starter
The problem was we just couldn't get any stops simple as that.
down the stretch they penetrated far to easily, almost at will and were able to get by Cuz who didn't want to pick up his 6th foul.
I'd have to watch again to say anything about the offense because quite honestly i've blanked it out, i can't remember if "midget" had anything to do with it.
down the stretch they penetrated far to easily, almost at will and were able to get by Cuz who didn't want to pick up his 6th foul.
I'd have to watch again to say anything about the offense because quite honestly i've blanked it out, i can't remember if "midget" had anything to do with it.
Two moves by the coach I think turned the tide against us. No. 1- Fredette and Thornton were put in the game together at crunch time - should never have happened. No. 2- when starters were put back in in the 4th Q Evans was left in as PG - should never have happened. Change those two things and we would have won the game.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
No doubt it was a dumb foul. However, I do think it was a flagrant 1, and not a two. I believe the difference is that a flagrant 2 is intentional, and a flagrant 1 is unintentional. I think everyone could see Cuz try and grab Carter to prevent him from hitting the floor. Doesn't excuse the foul, and the only difference is that one could cost Cuz some money. As you say, he was out of the game either way, and it couldn't have happened at a worse time. Of course Brooks pullup 28 foot three pointer from the top of the perimeter with a hand in his face was ill advised as well. There was plenty of blame to go around at the end of the game. The word selfish springs to mind.
Arco Arena
Bench
According to the rulebook a flagrant 1 is an action the refs think is unnecessary. A flagrant 2 is what they think is unnecessary and excessive.
Hard to crown someone the best C in the game when he plays average defense at best (maybe average), been pretty bad most of the year, and has been on his recent hot streak for only 8 games. Actually, that's rather silly if you think about it.
He's without question still behind Dwight, Marc Gasol, Tim Duncan and Lopez. Guys like Varejao, Horford, and Bosh are all debatable as well.
On talent alone? Sure, I'd take DeMarcus in a heartbeat over any of the above guys mentioned. But those guys produce at a high level on both ends of the court. Talent doesn't mean anything if it doesn't turn into production. We're finally seeing that "Best C" talent translate into production. He needs to keep playing at this level without any distractions or major slumps and bring that defensive effort we saw last night every game.
This is how I feel about Cousins.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
A note: people really really need to get off Marc Gasol's jock. He is not, and never has been, that good. Brad Milleresque. Good skills, modest production. 13.7ppg 7.6rpg 3.9apg on .472 shooting is a support player, not a star.
Oh, and I am of course talking about new Boogie. He's had the TALENT to be the best in the game since the moment he entered the league. Now he's putting it into action. As mentioned in this month we are talking about 22.8pts 13.0rebs 3.3ast on .538 shooting. Notice the gap there between those numbers and Gasol's? Entire class break.
To put it into further relief there have only been 2 centers to average those numbers in the last 19 years. Over that period Shaq did it one time. Dwight did it one time. So, in a league where Dwight is not himself, Bynum (who has never approached those numbers) isn't playing, Lopez is a highly efficient scorer who doesn't impact the game otherwise, Jeffrson is somehow a non-impact 19 and 9 guy, yeah, Boogie is dominating like no other center in the game. Not sure what to say about Duncan. Think he was hanging out with Barry Bonds this summer.
K
KingMilz
Guest
I've tried looking is there any news on if Cuz is getting a suspension? Surely this time he will handle the phone call from the L properly.
I honestly thought Cuz should have got a B, I was impressed from the point of view he was going strong to the rim everytime other than 1-2 times and some of his passes were nice and were missed or lead to hockey assists. But yeah his free throws which have been money this year were suprisingly off and that frustration foul was bad but imo Kings should have won the game easily in regulation so I kind of blame everyone for that loss.
I honestly thought Cuz should have got a B, I was impressed from the point of view he was going strong to the rim everytime other than 1-2 times and some of his passes were nice and were missed or lead to hockey assists. But yeah his free throws which have been money this year were suprisingly off and that frustration foul was bad but imo Kings should have won the game easily in regulation so I kind of blame everyone for that loss.
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LWP777
Guest
Correct. There is no such thing as an "intentional foul" in the NBA. That never plays into the discussion on flagrant fouls. College is different....
All this is true except it hasn't been very many games where he has been playing this good. If he keeps up these numbers then he is the best the best center in the league. His numbers for the whole year are much closer to the player I think he really is.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I am aware of that. I think you're blind as a bat, but I'm aware of that.
I, however, was obviosuly referring to the guy on the court right now. Young players have this odd tendency to get better in a way that older ones don't, especially when the talent is already there. Funny thing that.
Few things. Gasol is in an entirely different class defensively than Cousins. It's not even close either. He anchors the top scoring defense in basketball and has the individual defensive stats to back it up. 0.67 PPP overall (rank 7 in NBA), 0.59 ISO (rank 28), 0.62 PPP Post-up (12), 0.77 PPP on PnR (13), 0.69 PPP Spot-up (22). He's simply one of the best defensive players in the NBA at arguably the most important defensive position in the game.
Next, it's well-noted that Gasol sacrifices shots to let ZBO and Gay get be chuckers. Cousins gets 6 more shots a game than Gasol. Hardly a fair comparison when Gasol would quite easily be a 20 PPG if he got the neccessary looks. He's part of the reason they want to trade Gay as well so he gets involved more offensively.
No matter what happens with Cousins offensive game, he's going to have to improve his defense. Unless you're offensive wizards like Dirk and Nash, no players can be considered elite if they can't do it on both ends of the court.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You may have to define offensive wizards, since Cousins has perhaps the most unique offensive skillset to enter the game at his position in 20 years.
But regardless, and regardless of the oddness of that statement when Kevin Love and Blake are the top 2 PFs in the game, the fact is at center, which is where I VERY SPECIFICALLY made the statement, there are none of these great two way players at this point. If Boogie keeps doing what he's doing nobody but a fully revitalized and offensively featured Dwight has a chance to be on the same page as him. Not amongst the centers, and not amongst the PFs for that matter, who feature an elite class of such two way stalwarts as Kevin Love, Blake Griffin, David Lee, and LaMarcus Aldridge. Boogie is playing RIGHT NOW at a level above all of them.
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Bricklayer,
The poll at the top of the page specifically asked who killed the momentum? Obviously Evans did. The question was not who shot well, or got 7 rebounds. The majority of people on the forum did not see the obvious. Evans got 20, Thomas got 18 in fewer minutes. The point is that Evans should not play the point, especially at crunch time. It cost the Kings the game. It was not his fault. He is not a point guard. He is not a shooting guard because he often can't shoot well. He is an obvious talent that is hard to find a place for. The Mavs meltdown was one of the most discouraging games to watch of the year, and there have been many.
The poll at the top of the page specifically asked who killed the momentum? Obviously Evans did. The question was not who shot well, or got 7 rebounds. The majority of people on the forum did not see the obvious. Evans got 20, Thomas got 18 in fewer minutes. The point is that Evans should not play the point, especially at crunch time. It cost the Kings the game. It was not his fault. He is not a point guard. He is not a shooting guard because he often can't shoot well. He is an obvious talent that is hard to find a place for. The Mavs meltdown was one of the most discouraging games to watch of the year, and there have been many.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Actually the poll at the top specifically asked who was selfish. Its right there in big balck letters.
And please don't compare Isaiah Thomas to Tyreke Evans.
As an add on to my earlier post. The character of those two moves above were "experimental" and the situation cried out that that was NOT the time to experiment. Had a lead that was hard won and fading, putting Fredette in was an experiment because his recent offense is questionable and he is a liability on defense, Thornton was making his first return from injury and not known for defense, the starters had been successful in building a lead and were the hoice to end the game with, not experimenting with Evans at PG. Both things were absolutely insane moves in my book. Not a time to experiment.
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